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General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Tilt on March 30, 2007, 12:12:26 PM

Title: If you were a betting man/woman where would your $ be?
Post by: Tilt on March 30, 2007, 12:12:26 PM
Loads of wishes have been expressed here but which one (of the rides in the vote) do you guys think is actually going to win?

remember no wishful thinking allowed................
Title: If you were a betting man/woman where would your $ be?
Post by: tedrbr on March 30, 2007, 12:14:29 PM
Unfortunately, in popular vote, after seeing first cuts....

B-25

The next LW hangar queen.

Also, arguments will ensue as to which version of the B-25 should be sitting in that hangar.
Title: If you were a betting man/woman where would your $ be?
Post by: Sikboy on March 30, 2007, 12:14:29 PM
P-39

Not my pick, but my bet.

-Sik
Title: If you were a betting man/woman where would your $ be?
Post by: whiteman on March 30, 2007, 12:39:00 PM
A26, positive reinforcement :D
Title: If you were a betting man/woman where would your $ be?
Post by: FrodeMk3 on March 30, 2007, 12:47:52 PM
Hmmm....Odd on favorite, you ask Tilt?

P-39, at this point. Closely followed by the B-25.
Title: gut feeling
Post by: Turbo76 on March 30, 2007, 12:53:04 PM
My gut feeling is  A-26  Invader.


It is a fun plane, fast, american, and kicks arse. But so did the b25 in aw3, and that is where I am basing alot of my knowledge oabout the planes. from. We had a lot of planes in AW3. But they were drawn with crayons. Really nice crayons though!

The B25 is my favorite and my vote uless it get knocked out, and then I will vote a26...


http://WWW.skunkbunker.com

new website my callsign


c-ya in the skies!


;)
(http://www.maam.org/flightsim/screenies/B_25PJ_4red.jpg)
Title: If you were a betting man/woman where would your $ be?
Post by: humble on March 30, 2007, 01:22:43 PM
Given the suprising dominance of the targets....er bombers I think the B-25 will probably win out. without the raw numbers though that might be wrong. Basically you have 2 fighters and 4 targets left. If both fighters move forward its possible that a fighter will win....but since less then 30% of the player base has even a reasonable skill level (ACM wise) I think the game has gone more to the toolshed side and away from its roots.

Even 2 years ago you'd have had all the fighters alive I bet........
Title: If you were a betting man/woman where would your $ be?
Post by: 715 on March 30, 2007, 01:45:49 PM
P-39

And I will further predict the usage rates:    
1st week: 25%  
2nd week: 2%  
thereafter: 0.3%    

just kidding ;)
Title: If you were a betting man/woman where would your $ be?
Post by: Shifty on March 30, 2007, 02:07:55 PM
P-39, followed by the A26.
Title: If you were a betting man/woman where would your $ be?
Post by: 96Delta on March 30, 2007, 02:24:41 PM
B-25, followed closely by the P-39

B-25 is a favorite because of:

1 - familiarity
2 - you can build a squad around it (medium bomber squadron)
Title: If you were a betting man/woman where would your $ be?
Post by: tedrbr on March 30, 2007, 03:28:40 PM
Quote
Originally posted by 96Delta
B-25, followed closely by the P-39

B-25 is a favorite because of:

1 - familiarity
2 - you can build a squad around it (medium bomber squadron)


Hey 96Delta!  BUT!!  Can the B-25 compete in the LW arena with all the Ponies, LaLas, Nikis, and Spixteens around?   Slower than both the B-24 and B-26.  Worst climb rate of the 3.  Carries 6K to the 26's 4K and 24's 8K.  

And which of the dozen versions would it be?  Early War Doolittle for EW arena?  Mid-Late War 75mm spud gun (Osties will eat it for lunch)?

I think it has the edge in popular vote due to name recognition.  I also think it would end up a LW Hangar Queen.  Seen only in senerios, and maybe EW or AvA.
Title: If you were a betting man/woman where would your $ be?
Post by: tedrbr on March 30, 2007, 04:04:56 PM
Correction.  Wiki is wrong.  B-25 only carried 3,000 lbs of ord.  2K in early models.  4K in short ranged missions.
Title: If you were a betting man/woman where would your $ be?
Post by: DREDIOCK on March 30, 2007, 04:47:35 PM
As Ive said in two other threads already

If I hadta bet. Id say the p39 wins hands down and it wont even be close.
Just too many people begging for it for too long


Personally I think if the voting gets to the point where the 39 is rediculously ahead. And I think it will

 They should just go with it and let everyone vote on the next plane instead
Title: If you were a betting man/woman where would your $ be?
Post by: 96Delta on March 30, 2007, 04:55:47 PM
Just too many people ON THE FORUM begging for it for too long
Title: If you were a betting man/woman where would your $ be?
Post by: tedrbr on March 30, 2007, 05:02:34 PM
In the forums, people been begging for P-39.  Do the folks in the game, who are not in the forums, even know what a P-39 is?

I will note that the G.55 had a VERY strong following and rated second in the informal poll.  I would also note that all the Low ENY LW pilots with their LaLas, Nikis, Pony-D's, and Splixteens would have welcomed the G.55 with 3 X 20mm X 200-250 rpg and its performance numbers, plus MW availability.

G.55 cut in first round.   Heck, 3 of 4 cut were fighters, which surprises me to some degree.

I know they are not publishing the voting totals to avoid influencing the vote.  But I'd love to know whether or not the He-111 and B-25 held the top two spots.

I'm willing to bet that in the online vote, there are voters for the B-25 who think it will be a CV-launched plane.
Title: If you were a betting man/woman where would your $ be?
Post by: LYNX on March 30, 2007, 05:08:18 PM
Quote
Originally posted by tedrbr
In the forums, people been begging for P-39.  Do the folks in the game, who are not in the forums, even know what a P-39 is?

I will note that the G.55 had a VERY strong following and rated second in the informal poll.  I would also note that all the Low ENY LW pilots with their LaLas, Nikis, Pony-D's, and Splixteens would have welcomed the G.55 with 3 X 20mm X 200-250 rpg and its performance numbers, plus MW availability.

G.55 cut in first round.   Heck, 3 of 4 cut were fighters, which surprises me to some degree.

I know they are not publishing the voting totals to avoid influencing the vote.  But I'd love to know whether or not the He-111 and B-25 held the top two spots.

I'm willing to bet that in the online vote, there are voters for the B-25 who think it will be a CV-launched plane.
 

Jerry needs another bomber + scenario needs another jerry bomber so I voted 111 but with the majority in here being American I am convinced Yeagers favourite will win.....p39.
Title: If you were a betting man/woman where would your $ be?
Post by: DREDIOCK on March 30, 2007, 06:00:54 PM
Save the I told ya sos for after its all over.

the question was if I was a betting man where would I place my bet.

Thats what I did.

Personally I'd like to see another plane win it.
I just dont see it happening
Title: If you were a betting man/woman where would your $ be?
Post by: Brooke on March 31, 2007, 01:31:02 AM
I'll be surprised if the P-39 does not win by a wide margin.  It's a fighter, and it is likely the most-recognizable fighter to the overall voting public.  It has supporters among the historical aficionados as well.
Title: If you were a betting man/woman where would your $ be?
Post by: Iron_Cross on March 31, 2007, 08:05:24 AM
Well the first round vote surprised me.  I thought for shure the 111 would have been out the first round, and the 410 as well.  I would have guessed the G-55, and the "mystery" Japanese fighter would have made it into round 2.

Before, I would have placed my money on the P-39. Two reasons; First it is a fighter, and second it is American.  The large American voting block would have seen it to the end.  Now with the preponderance of bombers in round two's vote, I don't know.  I would have guesed the bombers would have been gone the first couple of rounds.  

Looks like I'm going to swich my money to the A-26?
Title: If you were a betting man/woman where would your $ be?
Post by: tedrbr on March 31, 2007, 12:25:36 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Brooke
I'll be surprised if the P-39 does not win by a wide margin.  It's a fighter, and it is likely the most-recognizable fighter to the overall voting public.  It has supporters among the historical aficionados as well.


If the vote was being held in these forums, I'd bet you'd be right.  The vote is held in the game interface, so, as I've stated (and been criticized for), the level of knowledge among the voting population is lower, and based more on what they know and are familar with, not the histories or capabilities of the planes on the list.

Hence the G.55 cut.  Hence Japanese fighter cut in favor of some early war bombers.

Expect the He-111 and B-25 to make the Final Four.  Battle of Britain and Doolittle Raid.
Title: If you were a betting man/woman where would your $ be?
Post by: Kazaa on April 01, 2007, 12:15:40 PM
Yak3 , so we can all chase down those pesky La7s !

The hunter becomes the hunted :D
Title: If you were a betting man/woman where would your $ be?
Post by: Masherbrum on April 01, 2007, 12:21:14 PM
Quote
Originally posted by tedrbr
Unfortunately, in popular vote, after seeing first cuts....

B-25

The next LW hangar queen.

Also, arguments will ensue as to which version of the B-25 should be sitting in that hangar.


What are the LWA Hanger Queens?   Just curious.
Title: If you were a betting man/woman where would your $ be?
Post by: tedrbr on April 01, 2007, 12:30:40 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Kazaa
Yak3 , so we can all chase down those pesky La7s !

The hunter becomes the hunted :D


Except that the La-7's are about 25mph faster than the Yak-3's.  In fact, Yak 9-U's are faster than Yak-3's.  La-7 has WEP too, not sure about Yak-3's.  The Yak-3's claim to fame was it was one of the best air superiority fighters of WWII.  It was a dog-fighter, not an interceptor like the La-7 or Yak 9U, not a attack plane.  It commanded the low to medium airspace over the front lines.

If I understand it right, the Yak-3 in game would be more maneuverable than the Yak 9U, a bit slower, and have less flight time due to less on-board fuel (to keep it light and nimble.  In game, it would be an excellent, but short ranged, furballer.

I like Yaks, would not mind getting the Yak-3, but not my favorite from the list.
Title: If you were a betting man/woman where would your $ be?
Post by: Tilt on April 01, 2007, 01:23:53 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Kazaa
Yak3 , so we can all chase down those pesky La7s !

The hunter becomes the hunted :D


tedrbr is basically correct......... however the Yak3 will out accelerate the La7 (at lower and medium speeds) and out roll it as well as turning with it in the horizontal and better than it shoud any vertical component be involved.

It has superb climb but lousey inertial zoom.

It would have the best cockpit vision of any fighter in the game. There is no armoured screen to frame and hamper the lead shot view.
Title: If you were a betting man/woman where would your $ be?
Post by: Wilbus on April 01, 2007, 04:18:25 PM
My bet would unfortunatly be the B25, I really REALLY hope I am wrong though!
Title: If you were a betting man/woman where would your $ be?
Post by: DREDIOCK on April 01, 2007, 06:22:04 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Iron_Cross
Well the first round vote surprised me.  I thought for shure the 111 would have been out the first round, and the 410 as well.  I would have guessed the G-55, and the "mystery" Japanese fighter would have made it into round 2.

Before, I would have placed my money on the P-39. Two reasons; First it is a fighter, and second it is American.  The large American voting block would have seen it to the end.  Now with the preponderance of bombers in round two's vote, I don't know.  I would have guesed the bombers would have been gone the first couple of rounds.  

Looks like I'm going to swich my money to the A-26?


410 making it to the next round doesnt surprise me. All one has to do it take a pook at the pic of that big gun sticking out of it to understand why LOL.

Jap planes not making it to round 2 is a bit of a surprise to me though.
Title: If you were a betting man/woman where would your $ be?
Post by: blkmgc on April 01, 2007, 07:23:38 PM
the 25's probably going to win. Dont think it'll be a hanger queen though, I can speak for one squad that will split some time in it. :aok
Title: If you were a betting man/woman where would your $ be?
Post by: CAV on April 01, 2007, 07:42:18 PM
Unfortunately, in popular vote, after seeing first cuts....

B-25

The next LW hangar queen.


I would never base my vote on what a plane will do in the MA's. The B-25 will see lots of flying time in the events. That is why A/C like the B-25 or the He-111 will be getting my vote.

CAVALRY
Title: If you were a betting man/woman where would your $ be?
Post by: hubsonfire on April 01, 2007, 08:02:38 PM
If I can cover 2 bets, I'll go B-25 or P-39, since they could, presumably, see use in both the SEA and MAs. Really not sure which I would rather wager on. I just hope we eventually get the others from the initial list, with the obvious exception of the G.55.
Title: If you were a betting man/woman where would your $ be?
Post by: 715 on April 01, 2007, 08:49:44 PM
I don't think there could be such a thing as a bomber hanger queen (within reason).  Performance isn't as critical with bombers, and besides most have about the same speed (the A-26 would be an exception).  The Lanc has the clear advantage when it comes to bomb load, but you still see all kinds of bombers in the MA all the time.  In fact, if you go via K+D as an approximation of usage rates (not as accurate with bombers as with fighters) the B24 actually is higher than the Lanc, and the difference between the least popular (Ju88, neglecting the A20) and the most (B24) is only about a factor of two.  So I don't think the B25 would be any different and it wouldn't be a hanger queen.

Now with fighters, performance is critical, and there are lots of hanger queen fighters (Hurri I has about 1/23 the usage of the N1K2).  The P39 might turn out to be a bit of a hanger queen in LW.  However, it is hard to come up with WWII fighters that saw significant service and wouldn't be hanger queens for the simple fact that AH has such a large fraction of viable candidates already in the game.  I count 74 aircraft in AH already- coming up with the 75th, and limiting yourself to only those that would get extensive MA usage, is near impossible.
Title: If you were a betting man/woman where would your $ be?
Post by: tedrbr on April 01, 2007, 10:43:30 PM
Quote
Originally posted by 715
I don't think there could be such a thing as a bomber hanger queen (within reason).  


Boston MkIII comes to mind.  Ju-87's seen very rarely.  Don't see much of the B5N2 or D3A1.

I put the B-25 in their category in the LW Arena.  Less ord, slower speed, half the climb rate of a B-26 in the game now.  Not a stellar performer for LW use.

If the B-25 wins, and they make the B or C/D model, then it may see EW and MW use..... not that there are many pilots EW or ME to use them.  

A few events here and there.  Lot's of calls for CV launch B-25 in boards.
Title: If you were a betting man/woman where would your $ be?
Post by: Widewing on April 01, 2007, 11:17:10 PM
There's no doubt in my mind that He 111 will sit largely idle in the MWA and LWA. It's slower than the Ju 88 and simply less versatile.

I would expect to see the Me 410 get used a lot initially, but it will tail off after a while. I expect it to be less capable of defending itself than the 110G-2, and thus over time will see no more use than the 110G-2 sees now. Like the 110G, it will find itself used more for jabo work than anything else. Fighters will probably devour it.

I'm fairly sure that the B-25 would get used, but only if they offer a solid nosed J model with 12 forward firing .50s (or maybe the H model). The B-25C would be the next Boston Mk.III, seldom used in the LWAs. The J model would be used much like the A-20G, but it will not be able to mix it up with fighters as effectively as the A-20 can.

Of the various bombers initially offered up for vote, the A-26 is one that will get lots of use in the LWAs, primarily because that's the only arena it can fly in. I see it being used like the A-20G, and aside from being a bit faster, I don't think it will be any more effective unless it can carry 1,000 lb bombs.

Likewise, the Yak-3 will get plenty of LWA use for the same reason as the A-26. I do not think it will be quite as capable as some think and I'm sure the Spitfire Mk.VIII will prove the better fighter. The Yak is geared more for low altitude work, but its only advantage over the SpitVIII is in max speed down low. It will not be able to turn with the Spits and has no edge in the vertical against the SpitVIII and SpitXVI. Its short legs and inability to carry bombs will limit its usefulness.

We finally get to the P-39. I suspect that two versions would appear, probably the P-39D and the P-39Q. The D model would be available in all arenas with the P-39Q being in the MWA and LWAs. Performance of the Q model was good enough that it will be a serious factor in the mid war arenas and could hold its own against the late war fighters. The D model will be effective in the EWA, but not up to the Spit5 or 109F-4.

If I could choose, I would probably select the P-39. It served in every theater (even in the ETO briefly) and was used by many air forces. My second choice would the the B-25, but only if it were to appear with two versions.

My regards,

Widewing
Title: If you were a betting man/woman where would your $ be?
Post by: Masherbrum on April 01, 2007, 11:37:44 PM
WHAT ARE THE CURRENT LATE WAR ARENA "HANGER QUEENS"?
Title: If you were a betting man/woman where would your $ be?
Post by: tedrbr on April 01, 2007, 11:48:48 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Masherbrum
WHAT ARE THE CURRENT LATE WAR ARENA "HANGER QUEENS"?


oww....your hurtin' my eyes.

LW "Hangar Queens" --- well, at least very rarely seen would include:
Boston MkIII
Ju-87's
B5N2
D3A1
P-40B
P-47D-11 maybe?
Hurri MkI
Spit MkI
Bf 109E4 ?
Ta 152H getting there?
C202
A6M2

Those are the one's I'm suprised to see in the air LW anyways.
Title: If you were a betting man/woman where would your $ be?
Post by: tedrbr on April 02, 2007, 12:10:25 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Widewing
Of the various bombers initially offered up for vote, the A-26 is one that will get lots of use in the LWAs, primarily because that's the only arena it can fly in. I see it being used like the A-20G, and aside from being a bit faster, I don't think it will be any more effective unless it can carry 1,000 lb bombs.

 


Yes, A-26 could carry 4 X 1,000# ,  8 X 500# ,  8 X 250# , 12 X 100# , or 2 torpedoes (with bomb doors open - never actually done outside of testing)  in internal bomb bays.

A-26 could carry 2 X 230 gallon drop tanks , 14 x 5-inch rockets ,  8 X 5-inch rockets and 2 X 230 gallon drop tanks ,  4 × 500 lb ,  4 × 250 lb ,  2 x 500 lb and 8 x 5-inch rockets , or  2 x 250 lb and 8 x 5-inch rockets on the wings.

It was meant to replace the A-20's, the B-26's and the B-25's when deployed, so was able to do any mission they could be tasked out for.

A-26 use in the game is very dependent on models offered, perk cost, ord load options, and whether or not drone use enabled.  Conceivably, since it comes down to just the nose configurations, HTC could offer both the solid nose B version and glass nosed C version, with some extra effort -- beyond the nose, they were identical planes.

*  A-26 gives a second perk ride for buff drivers.  
*  A-26 in formation, say the "C" version, with norden bombsight, is a good penetration bomber... better than the B-26 and Ki-67, and the "C" still has 8 forward firing .50's for strafing.
*  The gun heavy "B" version flying solo can nearly handle as well as second tier fighters in LW.  Still not a match against multiple Ponies, LaLas, Splixteens, and Nikis, but one-on-one may be able to hold it's own.  Especially if you have a gunner onboard.  Won't be quiet the Heavy Fighter is was in AW though.  There are reports of pilots hitting 7 to 8 G's in A-26's --- not bad for a buff.
Quote
In service, many pilots handled the Invader as if it was a fighter. With performance similar to many fighters, the aircraft was not as strongly built but many pilots remember seven to eight G maneuvers while attacking the enemy. Even today, close inspection of the wing and care in handling the aircraft during maneuvering are undertaken to avoid overstress on the wing.

Link (http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3901/is_200208/ai_n9104030/pg_6)

*  "B" version would defiantly be a fun ride for de-acking, town killing, and anti-GV work.