Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: VooWho on March 30, 2007, 08:09:20 PM
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What nations still use big bombers?
Nations that used or had Bombers during WW2 period. (From what I can list from head)
China
Australia
United States
UK
Germany
Spain
Italy
Russia
Poland
France
Japan
Sweden
Finland
Canada
Netherlands/East Dutch Indies
(Countries I think might have had a small bomber force)
Peru
Brazil
Mexico
South Africa
Iraq?
Czech
Hungary
Bulgaria
Cold War era (late 40s, 50s - 80s)
United States
UK
USSR
China
Cuba
France
USSR Block Countries
Australia
Canada
Finland
(Countries that might have had a bomber force)
Brazil
Peru
Argentina
India
Pakistan
Modern Nations with Bomber force
United States
Russia
Ukraine
UK (No longer uses large bombers I think, maybe the Canberra still?)
(Countries I think might have a bomber force but not sure)
China
Cuba
Argentina?
But my question is how many countries and which ones still use a bomber force?
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As of early 21st century, only Russia and US still use heavy bombers
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Originally posted by 1K3
As of early 21st century, only Russia and US still use heavy bombers
are you sure of that? I mean maybe and then again maybe not....
http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?F=2623660&C=navwar
Though Russian weapon sales to China have declined in recent years, there are real fears in the region that China might procure the Tu-22 Backfire bomber and the thrust-vectoring Su-35 fighter.
“Russia made use of the joint military exercises with China in August 2006 to display new weapons for sale, including the deadly Tu-22 Backfire bomber,” said Sumihiko Kawamura, deputy director of the Okazaki Institute, Tokyo.
“China has shown strong interest in purchasing Backfire for many years. The sale of the Backfire to China is only one instance out of many to come. Even the potential sale of the Backfire will have a direct impact not only on U.S. naval strategy, but Japan’s sea-lane defense planning also. China’s introduction of deadly weapons such as the Backfire and full-fledged aircraft carriers is likely to become a source of serious concern among Japan’s defense planners,” he said.
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Originally posted by VooWho
What nations still use big bombers?
Nations that used or had Bombers during WW2 period. (From what I can list from head)
China
Australia
United States
UK
Germany
Spain
Italy
Russia
Poland
France
Japan
Sweden
Finland
Canada
Netherlands/East Dutch Indies
(Countries I think might have had a small bomber force)
Peru
Brazil
Mexico
South Africa
Iraq?
Czech
Hungary
Bulgaria
Cold War era (late 40s, 50s - 80s)
United States
UK
USSR
China
Cuba
France
USSR Block Countries
Australia
Canada
Finland
(Countries that might have had a bomber force)
Brazil
Peru
Argentina
India
Pakistan
Modern Nations with Bomber force
United States
Russia
Ukraine
UK (No longer uses large bombers I think, maybe the Canberra still?)
(Countries I think might have a bomber force but not sure)
China
Cuba
Argentina?
But my question is how many countries and which ones still use a bomber force?
UK -
Canberras were relegated to recon and weather duties long before they were retired.
Last 'heavy' bomber the RAF had was the Vulcan, last operatinal use in 1982 to go bomb Port Stanley airfield.
Retired 1984.
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My god this topic is depressing. I hope to fly 'Heavies' when I join USAF, but it seems that dream is falling out from under me... (The Heavies are all being retired :cry)
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Don't worry Reynolds, the AC-130 is still going strong:t
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Doesn't the Ukraine have some Tu-95/Tu-142 Bear? I think Cuba also has a few Tu-16s but maybe not anymore.
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Originally posted by nirvana
Don't worry Reynolds, the AC-130 is still going strong:t
Never! Gunships are all good and fun, but Heavies are the only way for me!
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Originally posted by Serenity
Never! Gunships are all good and fun, but Heavies are the only way for me!
The last B-52 pilot still hasn't been born yet, so take heart Reynolds.
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Originally posted by Stoney74
The last B-52 pilot still hasn't been born yet, so take heart Reynolds.
Thats all that lets me sleep at night sir! (Ironically, my mentor, a former Academy admissions officer was a B-52 pilot as was my instructor's father)
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Has the US retired the B1? If so that only leaves us with the B52 and B2 as heavy bombers.
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Originally posted by Coshy
Has the US retired the B1? If so that only leaves us with the B52 and B2 as heavy bombers.
No. But my guess is that the B1 gets retired before the BUFF does... Could be wrong, but there's something about being able to carry 60+ 500lb bombs in one aircraft that lends it's longevity some importance. Not to mention the fact that is has more EW capacity than the dedicated U.S. EW plane--the EA-6B. I've always thought that in and of itself was somewhat scary.
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NIT-PICK ALERT!
Originally posted by Stoney74
the BUFF
...Is a general term meaning bomber, it doesnt neccesarilly mean the B-52. Sorry, I heard them say that on TV once (Calling the B-52 THE BUFF) and it kinda irked me, because 'BUFF' as far as I know it originated in England during World War Two.
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Originally posted by Serenity
NIT-PICK ALERT!
...Is a general term meaning bomber, it doesnt neccesarilly mean the B-52. Sorry, I heard them say that on TV once (Calling the B-52 THE BUFF) and it kinda irked me, because 'BUFF' as far as I know it originated in England during World War Two.
Sorry, I assumed that since the B-52 crewmember association uses it to describe the plane, that it was ok. http://www.stratofortress.org
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Originally posted by Stoney74
Sorry, I assumed that since the B-52 crewmember association uses it to describe the plane, that it was ok. http://www.stratofortress.org
Don't sweat it, Sery's still searching his databases for a Mig-28.
-Sik
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Originally posted by Serenity
My god this topic is depressing. I hope to fly 'Heavies' when I join USAF, but it seems that dream is falling out from under me... (The Heavies are all being retired :cry)
The B-52 will still be in use into the 2040's
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Originally posted by Stoney74
Sorry, I assumed that since the B-52 crewmember association uses it to describe the plane, that it was ok. http://www.stratofortress.org
All heavy bombers can be referred to as BUFFs, but there is no single BUFF. The Big Ugly Fat F***er adjective can be applied to any large, ugly, fat aircraft. Just nitpicking.
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Serenity no worries the B-52 will be here for at least 30 more years.
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Originally posted by Serenity
All heavy bombers can be referred to as BUFFs, but there is no single BUFF. The Big Ugly Fat F***er adjective can be applied to any large, ugly, fat aircraft. Just nitpicking.
I've always thought THE "BUFF" moniker refered to the B-52 originally and has since been retrofitted to all bombers.
The A-7 is the SLUFF....
wrngway
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It's the only BUFF in service with the us armed forces. The bone is still in service and will likely be for some time but yea the B-52 will probly out last it. I would call the B-2 dead before the B-1 though. The B-2 isn't precission weapons capable. Only near precision. Designed to lob nukes with out geting spoted so it didn't have to have laser guided munitions.
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Strategic bombing is going the way of the Dodo. Actually it's pretty much gone that way a few years back.
Technology available today really doesn't leave it as a viable option tacticaly or economicaly.
The average "fighter" today, indeed in the last 20 years, is capable of putting more destructive tonnage on a target more accurately than any WWII era Bomber (or 50-60's era aircraft....notwithstanding the B52 which is really an aircraft without a mission now).
Anyway....Flame away.
cheers,
RTR
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Originally posted by gbleck
The B-2 isn't precission weapons capable. Only near precision. Designed to lob nukes with out geting spoted so it didn't have to have laser guided munitions.
I doubt this is a secret anymore, but...
First GPS guided bombs ever dropped in combat came from a B-2. IIRC, 2 of them carried 16X2000lb a piece, GPS guided bombs (JDAMs) on a strike against enemies of our nation. No need for lasers anymore--they're going the way of the Dodo as well :)
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We (Netherlands) had some 'big' bombers during WWII, to begin with the TV bomber (considered heavy during its time I believe) and the B-25 in late war (East Indies)
I doubt we have any bombers these days (instead of the F-16 that is)
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Originally posted by Serenity
All heavy bombers can be referred to as BUFFs, but there is no single BUFF. The Big Ugly Fat F***er adjective can be applied to any large, ugly, fat aircraft. Just nitpicking.
BUFF was a term originally used by B-52 pilots to describe the B-52. It has since become a common term to refer to heavy bombers but the origins is with the B-52.
With a 185-foot wingspan, a length of more than 160 feet and a gross weight of more than 480,000 pounds, the B-52 earned the nickname BUFF, short for Big Ugly Fat Fellow.
Source: Boeing (http://www.boeing.com/defense-space/military/b52-strat/b52_50th/index.html)
ack-ack
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I doubt this is a secret anymore, but...
First GPS guided bombs ever dropped in combat came from a B-2. IIRC, 2 of them carried 16X2000lb a piece, GPS guided bombs (JDAMs) on a strike against enemies of our nation. No need for lasers anymore--they're going the way of the Dodo as well .
GPS guided JDAMS are not designated as presission weapons. They are designated near pression. That said though yes with the joint munition series weapons the B2 has pleanty of great stuf to drop, launch or lob at all kinds of targets. Still though laser guided munitions will stay in the inventory as GPS guided munitions relly on the satalites being up. If the satalites are taken out or the frequencys they work on are jamed no more JDAMs or JSLAMs.
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Originally posted by gbleck
GPS guided JDAMS are not designated as presission weapons. They are designated near pression. That said though yes with the joint munition series weapons the B2 has pleanty of great stuf to drop, launch or lob at all kinds of targets. Still though laser guided munitions will stay in the inventory as GPS guided munitions relly on the satalites being up. If the satalites are taken out or the frequencys they work on are jamed no more JDAMs or JSLAMs.
My understanding is that with a 10 digit grid coordinate, you're looking at 1-meter accuracy. I don't know what the circular probability of error is for a JDAM guidance kit is, but from what I've seen, if the coordinates are accurate, the bomb smacks it. As for the laser-guided weapons, they aren't all weather, all climate, and require a designator. A B-2 won't typically have something lasing for it. In the tactical mission, lasers will still be used (Hellfire more specifically) and sure, they'll stay in service until we run out of kits, but the future is GPS guidance. Last, and this is a question, how do you jam GPS frequencies? The only technique I can think of is at the source--i.e. an enemy satellite that has an active jammer on those frequencies. You can't realistically jam at the target end, can you? We used to discuss this in my former life.
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Off the top of my head I think it's like 5m but I would have to look that up to be sure. Perhaps we should ask Kten. Dang good realy and for a 2000lb bomb good enough for almost any non moving target. Great for strategic bombing. Pre plan and take out all the C&C and lagistics targets at one sight in one pass. Defintly the primary weapon of choice and with the conversion kits a great buy.
As for jaming the signal you can do it at the source fairly simple. The people republic of north korea dosn't need GPS. They have nukes and the orbital capability to get one into orbit. That is all you need. Pop one off in orbit and the emp kills all satalites over the area. After that the residual interferance takes out the coms.
You may also be able to put out enough noise on the GPS timing signal chanels to make them non nomial. Not sure if it's been done yet. That's realy a question for the USAF space opfor dept.
I just think it's odd they didn't think to put a target laser on the B2 even though the F117 has one and is older. It realy was just made for strategic bombing not tactical. Not a real problem though as there are plenty of targets for it and with the F22 taking over the F117's role we still have that part of any strike pakage covered. Still the B2 will probly be pulled from service before the B52 gets retiered.
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Originally posted by Serenity
My god this topic is depressing. I hope to fly 'Heavies' when I join USAF, but it seems that dream is falling out from under me... (The Heavies are all being retired :cry)
you still playing dude? :)
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
BUFF was a term originally used by B-52 pilots to describe the B-52. It has since become a common term to refer to heavy bombers but the origins is with the B-52.
Source: Boeing (http://www.boeing.com/defense-space/military/b52-strat/b52_50th/index.html)
ack-ack
If you give me a night or two, I will go through my references, but BUFF was used as early as World War Two by a Spitfire pilot describing the Lancaster I bombers he was escorting.
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At the USAF memorial ceremony I was saw a presentation on a program where they have two (with the goal that eventually it will only require one) JSTARS aircraft act in the capacity of a GPS satallite and guide a GPS guided munition onto a moving target.
Although this would have many possible uses, the one that they are most excited about was anti-shipping. The stand off range is in the hundreds of miles but the accuracy is in a few meters. Very exciting stuff.
Originally posted by gbleck
I doubt this is a secret anymore, but...
First GPS guided bombs ever dropped in combat came from a B-2. IIRC, 2 of them carried 16X2000lb a piece, GPS guided bombs (JDAMs) on a strike against enemies of our nation. No need for lasers anymore--they're going the way of the Dodo as well .
GPS guided JDAMS are not designated as presission weapons. They are designated near pression. That said though yes with the joint munition series weapons the B2 has pleanty of great stuf to drop, launch or lob at all kinds of targets. Still though laser guided munitions will stay in the inventory as GPS guided munitions relly on the satalites being up. If the satalites are taken out or the frequencys they work on are jamed no more JDAMs or JSLAMs.
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Originally posted by Serenity
If you give me a night or two, I will go through my references, but BUFF was used as early as World War Two by a Spitfire pilot describing the Lancaster I bombers he was escorting.
Again, BUFF was a term given to the B-52 by the pilots that flew it. It has since grown to encompass all bombers.
FYI- The Lancaster was referred to as the "Paddle-Steamer" and not BUFF.
BTW- We're still waiting on those spitfire films....
ack-ack
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Again, BUFF was a term given to the B-52 by the pilots that flew it. It has since grown to encompass all bombers.
FYI- The Lancaster was referred to as the "Paddle-Steamer" and not BUFF.
BTW- We're still waiting on those spitfire films....
ack-ack
Ack Ack, I just got back from a two month hiatas. (I.E. My computer got broke and I just got a new one) Ive flown for 4 days now, and fought, what, 1 spit XVI? Give me some time! Like I said, If I see one behaving unusually, I will record it. But in the time ive been flying since I got back, the Spixteen just isnt popular. And I take that as an invitation to find you the documentation of BUFF being used by a pilot in the 40s?
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Originally posted by Serenity
And I take that as an invitation to find you the documentation of BUFF being used by a pilot in the 40s?
Take it as an invitation to back up your claims with sources...you know, do a little research beyond what you watch on the Military Channel.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Take it as an invitation to back up your claims with sources...you know, do a little research beyond what you watch on the Military Channel.
ack-ack
I dont trust what I see on the military channel. Im smarter than that. Come on, give me SOME credit. Thats like saying "All Ack-Ack knows he got from Wikipedia". Its just insulting.
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Hey Rey,
I'm sorry for getting us onto this tangent, but every B-52 guy I know refers to the plane affectionately as the BUFF. Whether or not they called Lancs or B-17's that during the Big One, had nothing to do with my initial post. I was simply calling the plane what everyone else calls it, and was not trying to imply anything more. Almost every plane in the inventory has a nickname that doesn't have anything to do with its marketing name. Some are repeatable in this setting, and some are not. Regardless, I appreciate your enthusiasm and your contribution to the community. So, with that in mind...
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Originally posted by Stoney74
Hey Rey,
I'm sorry for getting us onto this tangent, but every B-52 guy I know refers to the plane affectionately as the BUFF. Whether or not they called Lancs or B-17's that during the Big One, had nothing to do with my initial post. I was simply calling the plane what everyone else calls it, and was not trying to imply anything more. Almost every plane in the inventory has a nickname that doesn't have anything to do with its marketing name. Some are repeatable in this setting, and some are not. Regardless, I appreciate your enthusiasm and your contribution to the community. So, with that in mind...
lol. I jumped in as a joke which, apparently went too far. No need to apologise, its my fault for overestimating the humor of this particular community.