Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: Excal on March 31, 2007, 09:19:16 AM
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How hard would it be to add a setting to the environment that would permit the host to control icons?
I would like to host a game in multiplayer where players have to rely on more realistic unaided visual contacts; that is, spot, id, and judge the distance of enemy aircraft without the help of icons.
Right now, you can only do that if everyone is willing to turn off their icons, but no one is willing to do that, because they can't be sure that opponents have turned their's off. If the host could turn them all off with one setting in the environment, it would work.
Also, while I'm at it, a way to force teams to be even is needed in multiplayer really bad.
Thanks.
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I don't recall offhand if you can turn them off completely, but you can set the icon distance to at the very least short (about d3.0) as a server side variable, the AvA arena is often set up this way.
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I know, but why not give host power to turn them off com[letely? Wouldn't be a big programming challenge. Now, giving host the ability to enforce even sides might be more challenging, but it's really, really needed.
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I like this idea.
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I'm assuming this means a server with very short icon ranges, for all sides?, and limited plane sets for each side in order to help with target identification?
An F4U fighter pilot over the South Pacific was not expecting to see 190's or 109's so example.
And really, the resolution of the plane graphics on the screen are not anywhere as sensitive as the eyesight of the average trainer fighter pilot. Things like icons make up for the shortcomings of the technology in use.
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The main reason is size limitations. What you see on the screen is to scale. If you hit the z key and hold the bracket until it's zoomed as far in as it will go, that's a 1:1 ratio of what you'd see in real life. I dunno about you, but flying around like that's a little hard for me.
Also, the farther away the plane, the less updates you get on it. The speck you see in the distance might only be updating location every two or three seconds, while the one right in front of you is updating easily more than once a second. Gauging speed, heading, and distance on a dot that is warping due to it being too far away for the server to care would be very, very difficult. Also, after a certain range, the only thing you see is a small black dot. That would make IDing farther out than that literally impossible.
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You want to fly fighters while simulating pilots that are legally blind and would be denied drivers licenses due to poor vision?
Ok, I guess.
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But we are only talking about an option. Besides, in H2H, there are so few players, that it would make the game more interesting, as people might fly formation for instance and keep together, or better track of one another, so that they can make the IDs from other info.
What it would hurt to at least have the option?
On the even sides issue, one way to really help is to give the host a setting that would limit the number of players that can join the bishops, thus forcing players just entering to go Knights after, say, the number of bishops reaches 4 players, or whatever number the host sets. For FFA, the max Bishops setting could be set to 8 players.
Thanks,
Excal
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The game code in H2H is the same as the main servers. My last post applies to any part of AH. You could get the option with the same result.
If you ask to have them revamp the code based on number of players...pay for it and it might happen.
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Hit ALT+I, that turns icons off
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The game code in H2H is the same as the main servers. My last post applies to any part of AH. You could get the option with the same result.
Well, it's called a wish list...and why have a free multiplayer version at all? There must be some advantage. This game is addicting and I'd venture that the first indulgence that hooks players is flying for free. If a suggestion increases the fun of participation in the first exposure, the game just becomes that more addictive.
Hit ALT+I, that turns icons off
That's a player option, but it's useless, because u can not be sure everybody has them turned off. What I'm asking for is a host override.
What about the 4 player country limit?
Excal
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Originally posted by Excal
How hard would it be to add a setting to the environment that would permit the host to control icons?
I would like to host a game in multiplayer where players have to rely on more realistic unaided visual contacts; that is, spot, id, and judge the distance of enemy aircraft without the help of icons.
Thanks.
You are flying the Spitfire, death is 1.3k away with 250 MPH of closure. Which aircraft is it?
Bear in mind the enemy may very well be flying the same aircraft as you, so you cannot use aircraft identification to distinguish between friend and foe. This assumes you can identify an aircraft consisting of five pixels, of course.
(http://www.ahevents.com/noicons.JPG)
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If your country is flying 109s and 190s (that is, ur playing a realistic game), there's no doubt you're gonna fire on that image. We're not talking FFA here.
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Back then we were beta testing the Kanttori's FinRus maps in h2h. The icon less sessions were blast.
Realistic in terms of the visibility etc? No but fun.
BTW the CM guys have been asking more icon options for SEA host several times.
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Originally posted by Karnak
You want to fly fighters while simulating pilots that are legally blind and would be denied drivers licenses due to poor vision?
Ok, I guess.
QFT. ("Quoted For Truth")
I live in Denver. We get F-16s now and then from Co Spgs (Air Force Academy) and they fly past probably 10,000 feet or more (they must have rules and regs about minimum alt over residential areas!), and you can spot them quite easily when they do.
However, cons only 1000 yards away in that screenshot are an amorphous BLOB.
Unless you have a 50-million pixel resolution on a screen only 20" wide, you're SOL if you want to visually ID jack and/or squat. That's a fact.
Playing with icons OFF I did a 109G-2 vs P-51B mission. You'd THINK it would be easy. We were in formation, right? Well 4 v 4 it was a total mess with icons off. Lost wingmen and emeny into the mess. I got in to attack an "enemy" and didn't see it was a 109 (a wingman) until 300 yards. Then I got in on an "enemy" and had to get under 300 yards to see the invasion stripes on his wings. If I hadn't seen those, I'd never have known.
Resolution just doesn't EXIST to remove icons. Oh, and don't say "IL2 does it!" because without icons in IL2 it's the same BS. The pixels just obfuscate the entirety of the image you would normally see.
You want no icons, take real flying lessons.
To ge the SAME result (using your peepers) in a game, you need something to compensate for the stupid technological hurdles we all face. That means icons.
EDIT: That's not to say it can't be "fun" once in a while to play around with icon settings. I just bristle when folks ask for it, citing "realism".
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Lets assume the next AH version will have a icon less host option added.
Somebody here would get very much hurt, if in SEA the CM's would run host forced icon less session 1-2 every quoter? Just rise your hand?
I always had a such impression the aerial friendly fire actually happened during the WW2 but now I understand it is/was impossible due human eye sight capability.
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Still happened. I have pictures of the COs F4U with 4 patches from the XOs guns. More than one aircraft went down to friendly fire; apparently killshooter was off in both theaters.
Anti-aircraft gunners on ships were famous for killing anything with wings. The Normandy invasion fleet was covered by P-38s because the Germans had nothing that looked like it. DESPITE this AND the invasion stripes the Navy gunners still fired on them.
My objection to inconless mode is the inability to identify an aircraft consisting on 5-8 pixels, which is what you get when they are close enough you had best be planning to maneuver if they're an enemy.
I WOULD like to see icons obscured by clouds, however.
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Hi Excal,
very good idea, thats what others, including me, ask for, since ages.
The people who think the sight is to bad simply never got over the 1st "hour of blindness". They are so much used to hunt icons, they never got aware of the smal but available differents of the dots and planes on long range.
And always again the absolut wrong and stupid hint "Hit ALT+I, that turns icons off" appear. Wong, cause this command turn off only the icons of the player who use this command and he can turn them on again and stupid, cause it always get repeated, although it have nothing to do with "no icon gameing, forced by the host".
Also the hint that the planes need a sidebinding is absolut not necessary, cause its logical and absolut no problem.
Half of the IL-2 players play without icons, although the terrible inside cockpit views and bad/unbalanced middle distance and dot graphics make this way of playing unrealistic difficult and unbalanced.
In EAW no icon games are a blast!! Even people who once though its impossible(same arguments like here) learned to spot and to identify the planes without icons.
In AH games without icons are very good possible(i often dissable the icons, if the host did determin planestyps for each side). Of course its not possible to see on 10k distance the exact planetype, but you can distingush very early between single engine fighters, twin engine fighters and bombers. Same like in RL the angle of view, camo, plane form, quality of the pilots eye´s, the pilots concentration and information(about what planes to expect in the current area) influence the distance of identification.
This major aspects of areal combat and pilot skill currently are dissabled, this OPTION to be used in the H2H area or while squad wars would be a great addition.
Or should we also dissable the external views, extended ammo load and the stall limiter, only cause the majority or at least the MA dont use them??
Iam sure AH would get a real win, cause the excellent inside cockpit views are the best base to play without icons.
Greetings,
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IMHO icons are compensation for the visual limitations of the game. I would imagine that trying to play the game for most people without icons would be an immensely frustrating experience.
Also, why would HTC put any more effort into improving a game for people who aren't paying for it? It's a perfectly playable demo and IMHO much more of a game than you get from anywhere else for free.
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Originally posted by scottydawg
IMHO icons are compensation for the visual limitations of the game. I would imagine that trying to play the game for most people without icons would be an immensely frustrating experience.
Also, why would HTC put any more effort into improving a game for people who aren't paying for it? It's a perfectly playable demo and IMHO much more of a game than you get from anywhere else for free.
1. There are paying customers, a who would like to host in SEA a no icons or friendly icons only sessions of course with historic plane set time to time.
If we are talking so much about limits of visibility, why not then compensate current seriously limited visual field (monitor) with external views? 'But but ....'
2. See 1.
I don't know anything about the game engine coding or how AH icon handling code is designed, but some how I doubt it's a question of the major changes to the code.
(edit)
Maybe there is a such 'Can of worms' with this icon thing that HTC don't want open it. Who knows.
How about this (asked many times):
Current
- .icon 0 = Far Icons. 6000 yard for friends and 6000 yard for cons
- .icon 1 = Short Icons. 6000 yard for friends and 3000 yard for cons
Wished
- .icon 2 = Very Short Icons. 3000 yard for friends and 1000 yard for cons
- .icon 3 = Friendly Icons Only. 3000/6000 yard for friends
- .icon 4 = No Icons
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yeah, it's not so much free vs pay, but rather AH hosted vs personal hosted games. Many time paying subscribers join the multiplayer games or even host them. So, it should be looked at as another option for everyone.
What about the country limit? Is there any reason why the host can't have a setting to limit the number of players who can join a given country?
Excal
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Originally posted by Krusty
QFT. ("Quoted For Truth")
I live in Denver. We get F-16s now and then from Co Spgs (Air Force Academy)
*WRONG AGAIN*
There are no F-16's based here in Colorado Springs. The Air Force Acdemy has Katana's and tow tug's for their gliders.
Peterson Airforce Base has C-130's and Beech 400's based here. It has transient F-18's from Fallon (getting fuel), C17's (loading troops), C-5's (loading troops), F-15's (when Air Force has a home game (football)), T62's, for training flights, F-16's VERY rarely, and lots of G-5's, G-4's, and other transient cargo and the occasional NASA T-38.
There are no F-16's based at Shriver either.