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General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: pipz on April 01, 2007, 11:29:56 AM

Title: Finnish 109g-2 model
Post by: pipz on April 01, 2007, 11:29:56 AM: Yo Fellaz
Im starting to work on a 1/48th scale Finnish 109g-2.I was curious about the paint they used.I noticed some seem to use the german 74,75,76 deal.Others use a native forest green and black.It looks like a third type may be an overall green clear down the sides of the aicraft.Ive been digin around a bit but this forum can be one of my best resources at times If anyone has information they can share I would appreciate it.I have been meaning to do a Finn 109g-2 for years.I finaly got a kit and some decals to do it.

Pipz
Title: Finnish 109g-2 model
Post by: Krusty on April 01, 2007, 04:37:54 PM: We've got a guy who's done the AH 109G-2 skin 3 or 4 times now. He's a mini-master on the subject :)

You can look his name up from the in-game skins list, and send him a PM/email from the forums here. He's still active on them, last I checke.
Title: Finnish 109g-2 model
Post by: pipz on April 01, 2007, 05:37:47 PM: Thanks Krusty! Ill have a look.....im on good terms with the Fins.....ill try to find out who theyre operatives are.......

Pipz
Title: Finnish 109g-2 model
Post by: Panzzer on April 02, 2007, 12:20:25 AM: Hi Pipz,

Kanttori has made the skin in game, you could ask him for references, or Wmaker would be another good choice for information. I'll ask them to drop by in here.
Title: Finnish 109g-2 model
Post by: Krusty on April 02, 2007, 12:28:40 AM: Much obliged, panzzer!
Title: Finnish 109g-2 model
Post by: pipz on April 02, 2007, 02:40:00 AM: Thanks Panzzer!Kippis!!!

Pipz
Title: Finnish 109g-2 model
Post by: kanttori on April 02, 2007, 04:17:54 AM: Here are couple of pictures from my AH-skins and original photos, too. That new skin is not released, but I hope it is coming out soon...

Maj. Eino Luukkanen's MT-201 should be a nice one to do. From that skin picture you can see the correct places and sizes of the Finnish Bf 109 G2's marks and signs on the fuselage and wings:

(http://www.llv32.org/kuvat/bf109g2_skin.jpg)

We have a very few photos from the upper wings of Finnish 109's, so I had to made the wing camouflage using normally German plans.

An old profile-picture, where the camouflage around cockpit is not so correct if you compare it with the original photo:

(http://www.llv32.org/koneet/mt201_01.jpg)

Here are original photos from this fighter:

(http://www.llv32.org/koneet/mt201_03.jpg)
(http://www.llv32.org/koneet/mt201_04.jpg)

Somebody has made model, but my opinion is that colours are a little bit too brown:

(http://www.llv32.org/koneet/mt201_02.jpg)

German RLM 74,75 and 76 were used with our 109's but as you know how knows exactly those colours nowadays...

Mostly all Finnish 109's were only overpainted with our Finnish signs and the camouflage and other colours were original German. Some fighters got the Finnish camouflage: Dark olive green and black, as you wrote. For ex. this one:

(http://www.llv32.org/koneet/mt213_profile.jpg)

I have also nice Bf 109 G2 black and white plans if you need them:

(http://www.llv32.org/koneet/109g2_left_common.jpg)

Tell me what individual G2 you are going to do and I send you high resolution pictures from my books (I have a scanner). ;)
Title: Finnish 109g-2 model
Post by: Charge on April 02, 2007, 10:30:32 AM: The MT-201 model lacks the small over paint mottling of gray almost totally and it made rather as big areas and I would not use it as a reference. Kanttori's skin is closest to the original as seen in b/w picture, IMO.

I have the 109G6 waiting assembly with the metal detailing set (Eduard) and Finnish markings. I wish I had time to start doing it someday...

-C+
Title: Finnish 109g-2 model
Post by: pipz on April 02, 2007, 03:21:52 PM: Thanks Kanttori!!!That helps a lot.I have decals for MT-215 and MT-213.215 looks the most interesting at the moment because its close to the skin you made available in AH.I will PM you my email addy so you can send me any pictures you may have.I realy appreciate the help!!!!

I have another question that no one may be able to answere.When your guys painted over the German markings did they try to match the orignal paint color and pattern or would they just pick up whatever paint color that was on hand and spray over them.I figured people bein people they prolly just picked up whatever grey or green that was laying around and sprayed away with no regard to patterns.Let me know what yaz think.

Thanks for all the input fellaz!
Pipz
Title: Finnish 109g-2 model
Post by: kanttori on April 02, 2007, 04:59:42 PM: Mt-215 (red 5) delivered 9th of March 1943 to 1/LeLv 34 piloted by SSgt Eino Peltola (10 1/2 victories, KIA). The plane itself scored only 1 aerial victory, because it crashed 29th of July 1943.

Do you mean just this one (this pilot is WO Oiva Tuominen (44 victories):

(http://www.llv32.org/koneet/mt215_01.jpg)

(http://www.llv32.org/koneet/mt215_02.jpg)

I have not a colour profile picture from MT-215 and there are only two black and white photos from it (those upper two, the book cover is colored later). But from these individual planes I have more pictures:

(http://www.llv32.org/koneet/109_g2_profiilit_01.jpg)

(http://www.llv32.org/koneet/109_g2_profiilit_02.jpg)

There is also the MT-213 from which you are interested... but if it is MT-215, I have those two black and white pictures with a better resolution and I send them to you via e-mail.

P.S. I got your posts! :)
Title: Finnish 109g-2 model
Post by: kanttori on April 02, 2007, 05:37:44 PM: This is true: "they prolly just picked up whatever grey or green that was laying around and sprayed away with no regard to patterns."

Because we had a lack of everything on those days. The over paintings of our war aircrafts were clearly shown very often. That's why you can see those German wing crosses dimmy from my skins, too.
Title: Finnish 109g-2 model
Post by: pipz on April 02, 2007, 05:48:06 PM: UH Oh
I think I have a problem.the decals I have for MT-215 has the nose number in Black not Red.Also the Fin national marking on the top of the wing is larger than you show.Its the same size as the one on the bottom of the wing.I may have to order different decals.What do you think of this?

Pipz
Title: Finnish 109g-2 model
Post by: kanttori on April 02, 2007, 06:48:39 PM: The uppper wing's swastikas circuit diameter were at first 75 cm. That scale were used with all the Bf 109 G2's which arrived 1943 to Finland. But Bf 109 G6 swastikas' circuit diameter were 100 cm in the year 1944.

It is impossible that MT-215 has got a bigger signs, because it has removed 5th of October 1943. And MT-215's nose number was really "red 5".

Those scale models decals have often that kind of "bugs"...;)
Title: Finnish 109g-2 model
Post by: kanttori on April 02, 2007, 06:52:26 PM: Now I quess it: Red is looking very much as black in the black and white pictures.

Here's a profile picture from where you can see those Finnish signs scales:

(http://www.llv32.org/koneet/mt216_profiilit.jpg)

I send a better resolution pictures to you just now!
Title: Finnish 109g-2 model
Post by: pipz on April 02, 2007, 07:05:45 PM: Ok I may have a fix for this.Techmod decals makes a 1/48th scale set of national markings for Finnish planes.It covers the years 1935 to 1943 I believe.There is also a later set for 44-45 if I recall correctly.There are several different size national insignias on the sheet.It also comes with many serial numbers as well.Maybe Ill order that.Ill have a wider variety of planes to choose from and the national insignias are probably correct.I know what you mean about these decals being Buggy at times.It drives me nuts!!!!!!

Pipz
Title: Finnish 109g-2 model
Post by: kanttori on April 02, 2007, 07:12:51 PM: You can download those pictures with a better quality from here:

FINNISH 109 G2 (http://www.llv32.org/koneet/finnish_109g2.zip)

It is about 20 Mb zipped file.
Title: Finnish 109g-2 model
Post by: Viking on April 02, 2007, 07:35:36 PM: When I used to model aircraft back in the days I had missing/custom decals printed locally on the thinnest paper I could find (like Bible paper). I then glued that new decal on the model using almost a dry brush of glue, and then gave the decal a light spray of matt lacquer. Worked like a charm.
Title: Finnish 109g-2 model
Post by: LLv34 Jarsci on April 03, 2007, 01:18:50 AM: ...or better yet, buy waterslide decal paper from internet and print your own decals as I do...
Title: Finnish 109g-2 model
Post by: kanttori on April 03, 2007, 03:15:54 AM: Good idea Jarsci.

If needed I have also made those Finnish signs with Photo Shop with a good resolution. I have also those letter types which we used to identify individual aircrafts. Is it possible to scale them to right size and print and use them?
Title: Finnish 109g-2 model
Post by: pipz on April 03, 2007, 04:31:37 AM: Good ideas fellaz.Ill stop by my local hobby shop after work and see if they have some of that decal paper.Its a big place that distributes Hobby items nation wide so they probably have some.

Pipz
Title: Finnish 109g-2 model
Post by: Viking on April 03, 2007, 09:46:52 AM: Quote
Originally posted by LLv34 Jarsci
...or better yet, buy waterslide decal paper from internet and print your own decals as I do...

You can get those now? Wow. I guess using an inkjet is not recommended. ;)
Title: Finnish 109g-2 model
Post by: kanttori on April 03, 2007, 01:35:37 PM: I must remove those upper pictures from the books away because of copyrights. But that link is working this week.
Title: Finnish 109g-2 model
Post by: pipz on April 03, 2007, 04:13:08 PM: Thanks for all the help Kanttori and Fellaz! I talked to a buddy of mine at the local Hobby Store.He says Testors has a Decal Making System that uses computer and printer.Im going to pick it up and have a look.You are suppose to be able to "import" images that can be printed to the decal paper.So I may be able to use the numbers and Swatstikas you mentioned.I will probably just need to resize them.If thats the case then Ill do MT-201.Ill keep you posted on my progress.Again thank you very much!

Pipz
Title: Finnish 109g-2 model
Post by: LLv34 Jarsci on April 04, 2007, 02:45:58 AM: There are different types of decal papers. For ceramics and for shirts, plastic models and such. I use laser print paper, that way the colours won´t "melt" while installing them.

Or you can buy decal paper ment for inkjets and after printing just spray the decals with spray varnish. That way the ink stucks better.

Here (http://www.flickr.com/photos/wasq/sets/72157600042429866/) is a link for pics of Bf-109g2 1:12 model. I used white decal paper. Pics by Wasq.
Title: Finnish 109g-2 model
Post by: pipz on April 04, 2007, 03:37:16 AM: Thanks for the tips Jarsci!That 109 looks realy good.Who was the brave soul that took the picture while the 109 was flying rite at him!!!!

Pipz
Title: Finnish 109g-2 model
Post by: Wmaker on April 04, 2007, 11:21:14 AM: Pipz,

Just one quick thing...

If you still want to buy ready made decals the best ones for FiAF Messerschmitts that money can buy can be found here:

http://www.kolumbus.fi/martti.kuivalainen/finindex.html

...click the "siirtokuvat" link and then InSCALE72

Unfortunately MT-215 can only be found in 1/72 scale, but there are interesting G-2s in 1/48 scale aswell.

EDIT/Looked wrong sorry, only G-6s in 1/48 scale. :(/EDIT
Title: Finnish 109g-2 model
Post by: pipz on April 04, 2007, 04:03:36 PM: Thanks for the tip anyway Wmaker!Appreciate you takin the time to have a look for me.I just got the decal making set.Im goin to sit down and have a look.This may turn out ok because it seems I always want to build Odd aircraft that I cannot get decals for.

Oh and in other news.While doing some research into Finlands part of the war I came across a movie called "The Winters War" I believe it was.Have any of you guys seen it?It has a realy good rating on Amazon.I think ill pick it up in the near future.Theres also a book called "Frozen Hell" that looks interesting.

Kippis!!
Pipz
Title: Finnish 109g-2 model
Post by: kanttori on April 04, 2007, 04:23:47 PM: If it is the Finnish movie original named "Talvisota", it is very good and authentic war movie. And I mean it after all I am Finnish... ;)
Title: Finnish 109g-2 model
Post by: pipz on April 04, 2007, 05:13:14 PM: I just thought of this.Maybe it will make life easier.Did any of the 109g-2s get repainted with the shaded larger swatstika like the 109g6s had?

Pipz
Title: Finnish 109g-2 model
Post by: Wmaker on April 04, 2007, 07:16:01 PM: Quote
Originally posted by pipz
I just thought of this.Maybe it will make life easier.Did any of the 109g-2s get repainted with the shaded larger swatstika like the 109g6s had?

YES, few of them did Pipz! :)

On top of my hat among them were MT-208, MT-213, MT-221 and MT-232 for example. When they got these bigger "shaded" swastikas (the base of the insignia was RLM 65 hellblau and the swastika was the original blue) they also got the whole plane painted into the finnish "warpaint" scheme of two tone olive green/black camo.

Here's some info on the MT-208:

http://www.virtualpilots.fi/feature/articles/mt-208/

Like the MT-208 had a cannibalized rudder from a 109 with the original day fighter scheme, MT-221 was also slightly funky looking because it had cannibalized wing tips which had the original scheme aswell. :)