Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: Sweet2th on April 01, 2007, 07:21:54 PM
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I have created a map that teaches the fundamentals of the Deflection shot.The deflection shot is very important when a person finds themselves in a 2 on 1 or 3 on 1 situation.Usually the deflection happens in a blink of an eye with it sometimes just being a matter of guess work.
This new map & Deflection training style has helped many a new pilot in this area of Air Combat.
Here is a sample, i hope you enjoy it:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWT7CpNiGok
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But where can I get a copy of that map so I can see how I do?
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From the film, and granted it's not of the best visual quality, it looks like it's more HO training than any sort of training on deflection shots.
It does though look like how you have the map done with the track that it can help those practice high probablility deflection shots in the turns though it would seem to be a tad more difficult to practice low probability deflection shots.
ack-ack
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H2H........How 2 Ho!! LMAO!
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LOL Skyrock, tact isn't one of your strong points. I was trying to be a little gentle pointing out the HO training but you come along and wail on him with a sledge hammer for the kill, priceless =)
ack-ack
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:D
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LOL
101 HO training..
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I have been practicing that style of ACM lately as well....makes for some pretty interesting comments on channel 200.
shamus
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Originally posted by FX1
LOL
101 HO training..
Come find out.
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Originally posted by Vortex01
But where can I get a copy of that map so I can see how I do?
I will be hosting it today for a period of time.room title will b VF-4-Red Rippers Deflection 101.
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Originally posted by Shamus
I have been practicing that style of ACM lately as well....makes for some pretty interesting comments on channel 200.
shamus
It's not really about ACM as much as you would think.
The track is in a figure 8 shape.The deflection shot i am referring to is not when you line up for a HO pass and the other guy bolts downward to avoid and you shoot him anyway.I mean the 2 and 3 on 1 deflection shot, when your fighting multiple targets all of the sudden and a enemy plane whizzes by your nose and you only have a split second to get a shot off and potentially raise your odds of survival.
The best way to be able to hit folks in the blink of a eye is too fly the figure 8 track with a Me-262 at over 400 MPH shooting only in the turns.
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You need to learn what a deflection shot is, clearly by that film you think it's a head on shot.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by Sweet2th
It's not really about ACM as much as you would think.
I didn't think it had anything at all to do with acm when I watched it.
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Originally posted by SkyRock
H2H........How 2 Ho!! LMAO!
:lol
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Originally posted by BaldEagl
I didn't think it had anything at all to do with acm when I watched it.
It would have been more your speed if it was cherry pickin, yea sorry bout that
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Originally posted by Sweet2th
It would have been more your speed if it was cherry pickin, yea sorry bout that
The degree of the Cherry Pick is only ever equal to either the amount of target fixation or the lack of Situational Awareness the other pilot has.
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Originally posted by Sweet2th
It would have been more your speed if it was cherry pickin, yea sorry bout that
How would you know? We've never fought. I do however know something of your style (or lack thereof) through the films you post.
If I recal one was of you and someone else tring to cherry pick a 109 mission then claiming they ran from you (uh-huh, 9 against 2, I'm sure they were afraid) when in actuality they simply ignored you. In another you spray and pray until someone with real skills comes along and finishes the guy off and now it's how to HO while flying figure 8's.
I will give you this; you use good music as a backdrop to your films.
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The only true deflection shot i saw was about half way through. You got a guy comin right to left in the middle of your figure 8-o-towers. Everything else was HO attempts. The only deth i saw was you at the end. Otherwise was a well put together film. I
those that have the patience to sit and put a film together, because i dont.:D
A quick note on the tactics though, if you try to bring that low flyin, goin around in circles trying to HO stuff to the MA, you will lose a lot of perks. Just my $.02.
NOT
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dude map looks cool i got to get my hands on that.
batfink <---- still in shock from the poo-chopping video.
if only they knew.....
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That's lame, dood.
But the music is way kewl. Who is that, Butthole Surfers?
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Originally posted by culero
That's lame, dood.
But the music is way kewl. Who is that, Butthole Surfers?
You not knowin who that is , is what's really lame here.
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Originally posted by NOT
The only true deflection shot i saw was about half way through. You got a guy comin right to left in the middle of your figure 8-o-towers. Everything else was HO attempts. The only deth i saw was you at the end. Otherwise was a well put together film. I those that have the patience to sit and put a film together, because i dont.:D
A quick note on the tactics though, if you try to bring that low flyin, goin around in circles trying to HO stuff to the MA, you will lose a lot of perks. Just my $.02.
NOT
Thanks for your comments.
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Originally posted by B@tfinkV
batfink <---- still in shock from the poo-chopping video.
if only they knew.....
Are you one of the people who favorited that Batfink? cuz 3 people have.
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I don't know what a deflection shoot is :o (i'm serious) but i do know what a HO is. Those are 95% HO's and i hate them at the first merge.
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OK so it may be more snap shooting then it is deflections shooting, but it would be a good map to practice on. As far as those who have little to say but are full of insult and put downs, I say post your films please so we can see what you come up with. To give criticism with the intent on improving things a good, to put down to make yourself feel better is not. Only you know what catigory you fall into, have a great day.
And I would like to get a copy of that map and try it out myself, please.
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Originally posted by Niros
I don't know what a deflection shoot is :o (i'm serious) but i do know what a HO is. Those are 95% HO's and i hate them at the first merge.
Niros, deflection shooting is fiing "off angle". It requires leading your target; whereas, a HO or a shot from the dead 6 are not deflection shots.
Snap shot usually means moderate deflection with a brief firing window, as the target zips past.
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Originally posted by Vortex01
OK so it may be more snap shooting then it is deflections shooting, but it would be a good map to practice on. As far as those who have little to say but are full of insult and put downs, I say post your films please so we can see what you come up with. To give criticism with the intent on improving things a good, to put down to make yourself feel better is not. Only you know what catigory you fall into, have a great day.
And I would like to get a copy of that map and try it out myself, please.
Those aren't even really snap shots, just plain HO's.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by Vortex01
I say post your films please so we can see what you come up with.
Just do a search of the many P-38 films I've posted or visit the 479th film library. They'll be a lot more beneficial than watching some guy's film on how to HO.
ack-ack
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[] Badguy
== == ==( )
U R Goodguy Fire here
Badguy gets hit by bullets because you fired at the right time
\|/
/|\ Badguy dies
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Everyone complains about HO's but it takes two to set up a HO merge....so who's really at fault when it happens?
The HO pass is a dangerous but valid tactic.
There is even mention of one by Randy Cunningham during his dogfight against Col. Toom, where he mentions that he was hoping to scare him but instead was freaked out when cannon rounds from the Mig 17 started passing over his canopy as they merged. Wanna bet that Cunningham would have been firing too if he had been in a gun equipped Phantom?
I try to avoid merging HO by barrel rolling, but if the other pilot is obviously going for one I will not hesitate to shoot. This is especially true if I'm in a 110......stay away from the pointy end or I'll shootin at you.
The video is nice. No reason NOT to practice snapshots and HO's.....because they do happen. Also, with the figure eight pattern there could be some good deflection shot opportunities in the center if you time it right.
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First off, HE WAS PLAYING WITH HIS FOOD.
Second, dweebs fire at a merge.
Third, HOs are tooooo easy to need practice.
Good advice for those who need to use it, but most of it is kinda untrue.
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Originally posted by WMDnow
[] Badguy
== == ==( )
U R Goodguy Fire here
Badguy gets hit by bullets because you fired at the right time
\|/
/|\ Badguy dies
Sorry, forgot to say this is a type of deflection
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Originally posted by WMDnow
Dee Dee Dee
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Originally posted by StuB
Everyone complains about HO's but it takes two to set up a HO merge....so who's really at fault when it happens?
The HO pass is a dangerous but valid tactic.
There is even mention of one by Randy Cunningham during his dogfight against Col. Toom, where he mentions that he was hoping to scare him but instead was freaked out when cannon rounds from the Mig 17 started passing over his canopy as they merged. Wanna bet that Cunningham would have been firing too if he had been in a gun equipped Phantom?
I try to avoid merging HO by barrel rolling, but if the other pilot is obviously going for one I will not hesitate to shoot. This is especially true if I'm in a 110......stay away from the pointy end or I'll shootin at you.
The video is nice. No reason NOT to practice snapshots and HO's.....because they do happen. Also, with the figure eight pattern there could be some good deflection shot opportunities in the center if you time it right.
The people in this video are new squad members who had no clue what or how a forward deflection was.After using this track they now have a better grip on the forward deflection shot, which is why i posted this in the help & Training section.
Nice to see so much positive feedback :aok
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So, are you saying that if someone is clearly attempting to HO you, you won't fire at them yourself because "dweebs fire at a merge"?
Yes, a simple HO is very easy....and easy to get shot all to hell too.
Whats worth practicing is making yourself a difficult target while merging with the HO'er and still getting a good shot off yourself....because you can be pretty certain that they will try to repeat.
Originally posted by WMDnow
First off, HE WAS PLAYING WITH HIS FOOD.
Second, dweebs fire at a merge.
Third, HOs are tooooo easy to need practice.
Good advice for those who need to use it, but most of it is kinda untrue.
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This can actually help people.
You can let Sweet2th try to HO you and you can practice avoiding dweebs such as him on nailing you in an attempted HO shot.
BRILLIANT!!!!!
Seriously.:cool:
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Originally posted by StuB
So, are you saying that if someone is clearly attempting to HO you, you won't fire at them yourself because "dweebs fire at a merge"?
Yes, a simple HO is very easy....and easy to get shot all to hell too.
Whats worth practicing is making yourself a difficult target while merging with the HO'er and still getting a good shot off yourself....because you can be pretty certain that they will try to repeat.
You have to clarify what your talking about.... A "HO" is dweebs firering at the merge, A "head on merge" is two plane passing nose to nose WITH OUT firering a shot.
A head on merge take honor and guts, where a HO is just dweebish !
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Hey! I just realized that after all this time i was thinking of a HO as a player in fishnets and a miniskirt! Thanks for the clarification!
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Originally posted by clerick
Hey! I just realized that after all this time i was thinking of a HO as a player in fishnets and a miniskirt! Thanks for the clarification!
No thats Silat :D
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Ahh...honor. You like a "fair fight".
That's nice, but some like to play AH as if they were in the real world, where it's kill the other guy as quickly as you can.
If you want a fair fight then maybe everyone should all be flying the same planes, at the same speed and altitude.....with head-ons disabled?
In "real life", in order to win any fight (fist fight, knife fight, gun fight, whatever) you need to try to get the fight over as quickly as possible. The "nicer" you try to be, the more likely you are going to get hurt....and/or lose the fight.
It's a documented fact that in "real life" the pilots shot at any enemy that got in front of their guns. Their job was to seek out, close with and destroy the enemy, not to be chivalrous towards them.
Don't be mad at the "HO dweeb", be mad at yourself for getting nailed while pressing on with a head-on pass where you had no intention of shooting in the first place.
Originally posted by The Fugitive
You have to clarify what your talking about.... A "HO" is dweebs firering at the merge, A "head on merge" is two plane passing nose to nose WITH OUT firering a shot.
A head on merge take honor and guts, where a HO is just dweebish !
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Originally posted by The Fugitive
No thats Silat :D
LOU! defend your "honor"! Allisons at a thousand yards
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1HungLo/Sweet2th-
If you want to know what a deflection shot is, here are some screenshots showing a high probablility 90 degree deflection shot.
(http://www.airwarfare.com/guides/images/karost/109DF90_02_A.jpg)
(http://www.airwarfare.com/guides/images/karost/109DF90_02_B.jpg)
(http://www.airwarfare.com/guides/images/karost/109DF90_02_C.jpg)
ack-ack
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I sware to Sheep, you don't see Ack-Ack for a while, then as soon as Sweetboy posts, he's all over it like stink on ****. Cracks me up every time.
:lol
Hi SkySquahk.
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Originally posted by StuB
Ahh...honor. You like a "fair fight".
That's nice, but some like to play AH as if they were in the real world, where it's kill the other guy as quickly as you can.
If you want a fair fight then maybe everyone should all be flying the same planes, at the same speed and altitude.....with head-ons disabled?
In "real life", in order to win any fight (fist fight, knife fight, gun fight, whatever) you need to try to get the fight over as quickly as possible. The "nicer" you try to be, the more likely you are going to get hurt....and/or lose the fight.
It's a documented fact that in "real life" the pilots shot at any enemy that got in front of their guns. Their job was to seek out, close with and destroy the enemy, not to be chivalrous towards them.
Don't be mad at the "HO dweeb", be mad at yourself for getting nailed while pressing on with a head-on pass where you had no intention of shooting in the first place.
No, it's be mad at the tard dweeb for shooting when no skill is shown, and if you're smart, you woulda read Hammer's net page, read the merges part and stop calling tard-dweebs innocent.
http://WWW.netaces.org :furious
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And by the way, we dislike fair fights. We like planes at different speeds and altitudes, thats what shows whether a pilot is actually any smart or not. Also, YOU think HOing is actually a good tactic when the fight is FAIR. It is absolutely valid if you are fighting 3 V 1, not if its 1 V 1. YOU protect the HO-tards. I fire when the HO-er fires at me, but HEY im actually to busy manuevering and NOT getting shot! If your a good pilot, there are many substitutions rather than leaving it to the pilot with better aim. If this ain't true, then im a GOD of anti HO-ing :mad: :furious :t
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
1HungLo/Sweet2th-
If you want to know what a deflection shot is, here are some screenshots showing a high probablility 90 degree deflection shot.
(http://www.airwarfare.com/guides/images/karost/109DF90_02_A.jpg)
(http://www.airwarfare.com/guides/images/karost/109DF90_02_B.jpg)
(http://www.airwarfare.com/guides/images/karost/109DF90_02_C.jpg)
ack-ack
show off,had to be a LALA in the screenie....:rofl :rofl :rofl :lol :lol :lol
Nice shot....:aok
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Obviously you don't have a clue about what I think.
If you go and re-read my first post in this thread you'll notice that I said that I try to avoid HO's but that if they persist, and I can get a shot off as well, I will.
The merge is a double edge sword. you want to do it as close to them as possible so as to not give them any anglular advantage.....but the other edge is that it also puts you infront of their guns as you close.
Personally, I get a thrill out of merging with someone attempting a HO, trying to avoid being shot and scoring hits from a quick snap-shot as they spray rounds all around me.
Instead of name calling and trying to assert how much better you are for not shooting someone in the face at the merge, why don't you just deal with the fact that HO's happen(ed) in "real life" and so they can and do happen in AH as well.
"If your a good pilot, there are many substitutions rather than leaving it to the pilot with better aim."
A good pilot.....sure, but if you are a good fighter pilot you will not only fly well, but shoot well too.
Originally posted by WMDnow
And by the way, we dislike fair fights. We like planes at different speeds and altitudes, thats what shows whether a pilot is actually any smart or not. Also, YOU think HOing is actually a good tactic when the fight is FAIR. It is absolutely valid if you are fighting 3 V 1, not if its 1 V 1. YOU protect the HO-tards. I fire when the HO-er fires at me, but HEY im actually to busy manuevering and NOT getting shot! If your a good pilot, there are many substitutions rather than leaving it to the pilot with better aim. If this ain't true, then im a GOD of anti HO-ing :mad: :furious :t
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Nice figure-8 Nascar track :D
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Originally posted by StuB
Obviously you don't have a clue about what I think. Yes, i do, i said i hate HO dweebs, but you say its OK for them.
If you go and re-read my first post in this thread you'll notice that I said that I try to avoid HO's but that if they persist, and I can get a shot off as well, I will. I do to, but i dont think anyone is going to risk it TWICE.
The merge is a double edge sword. you want to do it as close to them as possible so as to not give them any anglular advantage.....but the other edge is that it also puts you infront of their guns as you close. Not if you dive first!
Personally, I get a thrill out of merging with someone attempting a HO, trying to avoid being shot and scoring hits from a quick snap-shot as they spray rounds all around me. I think it's suicide.
Instead of name calling and trying to assert how much better you are for not shooting someone in the face at the merge, why don't you just deal with the fact that HO's happen(ed) in "real life" and so they can and do happen in AH as well. Im not name calling, but HO ing is the true mark of a dweebtard
"If your a good pilot, there are many substitutions rather than leaving it to the pilot with better aim."
A good pilot.....sure, but if you are a good fighter pilot you will not only fly well, but shoot well too. You knew what i meant, dont be an ***
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This s the way I look at it--
Yes, in real life pilots took a shot if it was presented ... they were flying to survive.
We are flying for sport, so in my opinion its the "out flying" of someone that makes it exciting, not the picking a cannon package in the hanger and then flying right at someone.
If someone is flying solely to get a good score then while they may achieve a good score, it is really very empty and in no way represents having any skills as a pilot. (this does not mean everyone with a good score is a poor pilot)
its a rare day indeed when I dont see 110, LA, or spit pilots pushing for a ho
(of course they all say they only ho when --
someone trys to ho them
they are trying to take a base
they are trying to defend a base
they are caught low
they are caught high
they are caught slow
they are too fast
they are outnumbered
i think that about covers it but I'll throw in "when the month ends in "R" or "Y" ")
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WMDnow, please edit your last post to properly reflect what you quoted from my post.
You say "Yes, i do, i said i hate HO dweebs, but you say its OK for them."
That is not exactly what I said or meant. What I'm saying is that "HO dweebs", as you like to call them, are a factor in the game as they are in real life. I neither like them or hate them....they are just doing what they do. ....so I deal with them as well as I can.
Think about it this way. If you tried to pet a strange dog and it bit you....who's fault is it? The dogs?.... or yours for not anticipating that it might try to bite you? Should you hate it (or all dogs) for what it did? Or should you just try to be careful around dogs you don't know?
Have fun....
StuB
Originally posted by WMDnow
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Originally posted by FBplmmr
This s the way I look at it--
Yes, in real life pilots took a shot if it was presented ... they were flying to survive.
We are flying for sport, so in my opinion its the "out flying" of someone that makes it exciting, not the picking a cannon package in the hanger and then flying right at someone.
If someone is flying solely to get a good score then while they may achieve a good score, it is really very empty and in no way represents having any skills as a pilot. (this does not mean everyone with a good score is a poor pilot)
This is exactly what I mean. Stub, you do realize that you don't die if you get shot down right? This is a game, not real war where its "survival of the best shot, no matter what shot".
Fairness in a game is using the tools and rules as they were MEANT to be used, to defeat the other player. Meant is the word that brings in the "honor" part of it. Sure you can take the plane with the biggest guns fly strait at the enemy firring from 1200 out and not letting up till your in the chute, or through his wreckage, but there is no skill or challenge there, just luck.
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Originally posted by Kermit de frog
This can actually help people.
You can let Sweet2th try to HO you and you can practice avoiding dweebs such as him on nailing you in an attempted HO shot.
BRILLIANT!!!!!
Seriously.:cool:
your just to thick to understand any of what was typed is all.
This track was designed for teaching deflections in a 2 or 3 Vs. 1
I never HO shoot anyone except bombers or LTAR's
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Originally posted by Sweet2th
your just to thick to understand any of what was typed is all.
This track was designed for teaching deflections in a 2 or 3 Vs. 1
I never HO shoot anyone except bombers or LTAR's
You mean the track was designed by a person that doesn't know the difference between a deflection shot and a head on shot.
Never say never, especially in a film that shows you firing at every head on opportunity you had.
Please look at the screenshots I posted for an example of a deflection shot.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by Simaril
Niros, deflection shooting is fiing "off angle". It requires leading your target; whereas, a HO or a shot from the dead 6 are not deflection shots.
Snap shot usually means moderate deflection with a brief firing window, as the target zips past.
Simaril, your definition of a snap shot is not correct. A snapshot has nothing to do with the amount of deflection. It occurs when you fire at a target without tracking it and, in fact, it's opposed to a "tracking shot". With less word and maybe more clearly, as Shaw says:
«There are two broad categories of air-to-air gun-firing situations: "tracking" shots and "snapshots" The tracking shot occurs when the pipper remains steady on the computed aim point for longer than the settling time of the sight. A snapshot, sometimes called "raking guns," refers to a situation when the pipper merely passes through the proper aim point, never stopping.»
He refers to modern gunsights when he talks about "settling time", however the definitions applies to our planes, too: it occurs when the pipper (the point inside the rings in the gunsight) remains steady in lead position relative to the target for a certain amount of time (that is, when you match the turn rate of the target, while following a lead pursuit course)
Anyway, both a tracking shot and a snapshot may be deflection shots: of course, given their definition, the tracking shot will be usually a low deflection shot, while the snapshot will be usually a high deflection shot (90 or more degree off tail).
I hope it's clear, sometimes it's not easy to explain things even if you have them clear in your mind :p Especially when you do that in a foreign language.
StuB, Cunningham didn't head straight to the MiG because he wanted to scare him, but, as you said in a latter post of yours, because he didn't want to give him any angular advantage:
«As we headed for the coast at 10,000 feet, I spotted another airplane on the nose, slightly low, heading straight for us. It was a MiG-17. I told Irish to watch how close we could pass the MiG to take out as much lateral separation as possible so he could not convert as easily to our six o'clock. We used to do the same thing against the A-4s back at Miramar since the two aircraft were virtually identical in performance. This proved to be my first near-fatal mistake. . . . A-4s don't have guns in the nose.»
Plmmer... well said, sir, I guess I'll quote you in my signature! :)
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Here, i am putting up some pictures that hopefully demonstrate the difference between a ho and a snap shot, hope this helps.
The HO,
(http://thepowerofapicture.com/__oneclick_uploads/2007/01/prostitute.jpg)
The snapshot,
(http://www.photoartifice.com/images/sunporch.jpg)
Maybe now we can put this to rest once and for all.
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Originally posted by StuB
WMDnow, please edit your last post to properly reflect what you quoted from my post.
You say "Yes, i do, i said i hate HO dweebs, but you say its OK for them."
That is not exactly what I said or meant. What I'm saying is that "HO dweebs", as you like to call them, are a factor in the game as they are in real life. I neither like them or hate them....they are just doing what they do. ....so I deal with them as well as I can.
I Agree with this.
Think about it this way. If you tried to pet a strange dog and it bit you....who's fault is it? The dogs?.... or yours for not anticipating that it might try to bite you? Should you hate it (or all dogs) for what it did? Or should you just try to be careful around dogs you don't know?
I Disagree with this, you dont know if someone is a HO tard unless you have been. I'm not trying to be a jerk, but you are acusing me of being stupid and unreasonable, so I was trying to show you what i meant.
Have fun....
StuB
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Lotta argueing, eh? :D
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Im sure that if HTC wasn't trying to strive for REALISM they would have turned off HO's.
But they didn't, did they?
Maybe they need to create a "Snoopy vs. The Red Baron" arena where HO's are turned off for you? :)
Originally posted by The Fugitive
This is exactly what I mean. Stub, you do realize that you don't die if you get shot down right? This is a game, not real war where its "survival of the best shot, no matter what shot".
Fairness in a game is using the tools and rules as they were MEANT to be used, to defeat the other player. Meant is the word that brings in the "honor" part of it. Sure you can take the plane with the biggest guns fly strait at the enemy firring from 1200 out and not letting up till your in the chute, or through his wreckage, but there is no skill or challenge there, just luck.
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Is it Ok to HO bombers?
not a troll It's a great tactic but don't want to be called a HO dweeb
gusman44
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You lost me there.....
Originally posted by WMDnow
"I Disagree with this, you dont know if someone is a HO tard unless you have been. I'm not trying to be a jerk, but you are acusing me of being stupid and unreasonable, so I was trying to show you what i meant."
Are you saying that you used to be a "HO tard" because you once were one yourself and that is how you know about them? Or are you trying to say that I'm a "HO dweeb"?
I've never accused you of being stupid or unreasonable in this or any other thread.
But now that I think of it, I do believe you are unreasonable.
Originally posted by WMDnow
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Originally posted by StuB
Im sure that if HTC wasn't trying to strive for REALISM they would have turned off HO's.
But they didn't, did they?
Maybe they need to create a "Snoopy vs. The Red Baron" arena where HO's are turned off for you? :)
Its a "realistic" GAME. If you find your self starting to think this stuff is real, please turn off your computer and find a doctor jeeez !!
oh I've played "Snoopy vs the Red Baron" and the flight model sucks !
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HO DS HO DS HO DS HO DS not many know the difference and even if they do, they go for the HO anyway! LMAO!:aok
Mark
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Originally posted by gusman
Is it Ok to HO bombers?
not a troll It's a great tactic but don't want to be called a HO dweeb
gusman44
Yup, 262's too. HO'em every chance I get!
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Originally posted by StuB
You lost me there.....
Originally posted by WMDnow
"I Disagree with this, you dont know if someone is a HO tard unless you have been. I'm not trying to be a jerk, but you are acusing me of being stupid and unreasonable, so I was trying to show you what i meant."
Are you saying that you used to be a "HO tard" because you once were one yourself and that is how you know about them? Or are you trying to say that I'm a "HO dweeb"?
Them and no
I've never accused you of being stupid or unreasonable in this or any other thread.
You sure have an odd show of respect
But now that I think of it, I do believe you are unreasonable.
:lol :lol
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Originally posted by StuB
Im sure that if HTC wasn't trying to strive for REALISM they would have turned off HO's.
But they didn't, did they?
Maybe they need to create a "Snoopy vs. The Red Baron" arena where HO's are turned off for you? :)
You cant turn off HOs, its impossible. if you did, no more engin damage, no more PW, no more BnZ and TnB and no more sciccors
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Originally posted by WMDnow
You cant turn off HOs, its impossible. if you did, no more engin damage, no more PW, no more BnZ and TnB and no more sciccors
No it's not. We didn't have them in AW and you were able to easily substain engine damage, Boom and Zoom, Angle and Turn fight and scissors in that game.
ack-ack
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I used to get frustrated when people went and HO'd me, but now I enjoy it. By actually putting in some effort into trying to shoot someone in the back, I've reached the point where if they try to HO me, and don't hit me, they're usually dead.
And, if they try to HO me and actually do hit me, I get to climbout again, x out to windows, come on these forums, and read all these threads where people without a clue try to explain why people with a clue should do anything besides roll their eyes whenever someone says, "it was used in real life! It's a valid tactic! Stop complaining - this is WAR!!!" Or any of the usual garbage :D
But, anyway, play the game however you like. It's your $14.95, and I kind of like the easy kills every now and then. As long as you spend all your time practicing the HO and nothing else, you'll always be a pretty easy kill for anyone in a faster plane, anyway :aok
- One more thing though - in regards to the film - although, yes, most of the shots he was taking were HOs of one sort or another, I do have to say it looks like a good way to practice 90* crossing shots... I can't really think of a more efficient way to practice those. So good job on that :aok
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Originally posted by Vudak
I used to get frustrated when people went and HO'd me, but now I enjoy it. By actually putting in some effort into trying to shoot someone in the back, I've reached the point where if they try to HO me, and don't hit me, they're usually dead.
Ditto. In fact, every time someone tries to HO me at initial merge, I'm happy: it means he/she is a clueless pilot that prefer to lose any advantage he can get and to put himself in a worse position just to open fire at merge... and that means I can easily be on his six in a matter of seconds. Just avoid the first HO, and the kill is yours! ;)
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ok thats 3min 37 secs Ill never get back :rolleyes: wth was that
AH Nascar ?
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And you are 100% correct on this?
In the various versions of AW, HO's were turned off, and on.....and off, depending how much whining went on... but they were still able to model engine damage, etc... I would imagine that AH2 is not all that much different.
Originally posted by WMDnow
You cant turn off HOs, its impossible. if you did, no more engin damage, no more PW, no more BnZ and TnB and no more sciccors
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He's not correct.
ack-ack
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Thank you for supporting someone who calls the game 'real life'.
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AW had the randomizer (better known as the reamdomizer), where you took damage was based on a roll of a dice. Nothing to do with HOs or where you were hit.
Gunner
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Originally posted by Gianlupo
Ditto. In fact, every time someone tries to HO me at initial merge, I'm happy: it means he/she is a clueless pilot that prefer to lose any advantage he can get and to put himself in a worse position just to open fire at merge... and that means I can easily be on his six in a matter of seconds. Just avoid the first HO, and the kill is yours! ;)
I'm sorry but I don't believe it. If the other guy is trying to HO you and misses it means he at least passed close to you. If he extends while you have to turn you burn E and he doesn't. Somehow "easily being on his six in a matter of seconds" doesn't add up in this scenario. Wait, I take it back, you are on his six but 3K off. Unless your in a faster plane then I still don't see where "the kill is yours".
If the other guy turns after the HO attempt you might be right but even then if he has a better turning or better climbing plane he might just re-gain the advantage.
I'm not nessesarily advocating the HO here but I think your statement is a huge genralization and a bit of chest thumping.
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Where is the nose of your plane pointing when you are setting up a lead turn? In front, on, or behind the enemy? How about when you are setting up to get behind the enemy for a 6 shot? Where is your nose pointing when you are taking a HO shot?
If your nose is pointing in front, or at the enemy, you are loosing angles. If your enemy is going for angles and setup for a 6 shot, if you miss, your going to loose.
When the enemy is firing at the merge, you know where his nose is pointing, use it to your advantage. If your shooting back... you shouldn't be complaining :)
Gunner
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Originally posted by BaldEagl
I'm sorry but I don't believe it. If the other guy is trying to HO you and misses it means he at least passed close to you. If he extends while you have to turn you burn E and he doesn't. Somehow "easily being on his six in a matter of seconds" doesn't add up in this scenario. Wait, I take it back, you are on his six but 3K off. Unless your in a faster plane then I still don't see where "the kill is yours".
If the other guy turns after the HO attempt you might be right but even then if he has a better turning or better climbing plane he might just re-gain the advantage.
I'm not nessesarily advocating the HO here but I think your statement is a huge genralization and a bit of chest thumping.
I think all he was trying to say here is if the first move is a HO, most likely the next move the "dweeb' will make is a high "G" tight turn going for another HO, in which case he is easy prey. I don't think he was talking about someone who knows how to fly and fight.
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I will be Hosting this map today if any of you wanna try it out for yourselves.
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Originally posted by BaldEagl
I'm sorry but I don't believe it. If the other guy is trying to HO you and misses it means he at least passed close to you. If he extends while you have to turn you burn E and he doesn't. Somehow "easily being on his six in a matter of seconds" doesn't add up in this scenario. Wait, I take it back, you are on his six but 3K off. Unless your in a faster plane then I still don't see where "the kill is yours".
If the other guy turns after the HO attempt you might be right but even then if he has a better turning or better climbing plane he might just re-gain the advantage.
I'm not nessesarily advocating the HO here but I think your statement is a huge genralization and a bit of chest thumping.
First of all, just because he's pointing his nose directly at you on the first merge doesn't mean you are reciprocating.
I suppose it would be a generalization, but I wouldn't call it that huge. If you are in a 1 on 1 with a guy in the MA, and he tries to shoot you on the first merge, almost always, without fail, one of two things are going to happen:
1. Your going to kill him after the merge
2. He's going to run away
If his primary tactic is to try and kill you at the first merge, he hasn't, generally, learned too many secondary ones.
Are there exceptions? Sure. But they are very few and far between.
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Fugative and Vudak, I agree with both of you. Most of the time in the MA's the HO player will follow with a high-g turn and, in fact, becomes easy prey but they are almost always noobs who start spraying at 1.5K.
I was just poiniting out that just because someone HO's doesn't nessesarily mean they're dead within seconds. If so I want to figure out what plane makes an instantaneous 180 degree spin with no loss of E :)
One last thing that might be argued is that in setting up the merge you're already 1/4 to 1/2 way through your intitial turn but to remain a HO you still have to be coming nose-to-nose so he is likewise 1/4 to 1/2 way through an initial turn. If it's not nose-to-nose it's not a HO anymore but rather a deflection shot (but then we get into the semantics of what's a HO and I'm not going there :)).
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Originally posted by BaldEagl
Fugative and Vudak, I agree with both of you. Most of the time in the MA's the HO player will follow with a high-g turn and, in fact, becomes easy prey but they are almost always noobs who start spraying at 1.5K.
I was just poiniting out that just because someone HO's doesn't nessesarily mean they're dead within seconds. If so I want to figure out what plane makes an instantaneous 180 degree spin with no loss of E :)
One last thing that might be argued is that in setting up the merge you're already 1/4 to 1/2 way through your intitial turn but to remain a HO you still have to be coming nose-to-nose so he is likewise 1/4 to 1/2 way through an initial turn. If it's not nose-to-nose it's not a HO anymore but rather a deflection shot (but then we get into the semantics of what's a HO and I'm not going there :)).
Well, whenever I hear someone complain about a HO, I assume they mean that he fired on the first merge, which, in certain circles is frowned upon, for understandable reasons.
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Avoiding all the Ho vs. Non-HO stuff I'd just like to provide one tip for noobies with regard to deflection shooting.
Always lead more than you think initially..It is much easier to relax your lead as the bullets appear 'long' than to try to pull for more lead during a manuever which could cause a blackout if going fast with high G's or a spin or stall if slow.
Zazen
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Originally posted by The Fugitive
Originally posted by BaldEagl
I'm sorry but I don't believe it. If the other guy is trying to HO you and misses it means he at least passed close to you. If he extends while you have to turn you burn E and he doesn't. Somehow "easily being on his six in a matter of seconds" doesn't add up in this scenario. Wait, I take it back, you are on his six but 3K off. Unless your in a faster plane then I still don't see where "the kill is yours".
If the other guy turns after the HO attempt you might be right but even then if he has a better turning or better climbing plane he might just re-gain the advantage.
I'm not nessesarily advocating the HO here but I think your statement is a huge genralization and a bit of chest thumping.
I think all he was trying to say here is if the first move is a HO, most likely the next move the "dweeb' will make is a high "G" tight turn going for another HO, in which case he is easy prey. I don't think he was talking about someone who knows how to fly and fight.
What Fugitive (and Vudak) said, BaldEagl. Most of the guys who will HO you in MA don't know how to fight and they will just merge, try to fire to you in the face and just turn as hard as they can once they have passed you to come back, just like in a joust. All you have to do is turning in the vertical and you'll be at their 6 in a matter of seconds.
One last thing that might be argued is that in setting up the merge you're already 1/4 to 1/2 way through your intitial turn but to remain a HO you still have to be coming nose-to-nose so he is likewise 1/4 to 1/2 way through an initial turn. If it's not nose-to-nose it's not a HO anymore but rather a deflection shot (but then we get into the semantics of what's a HO and I'm not going there ).
You're right, BaldEagl, but I said "someone who tries" to HO you. I mean guys who'll come right to you firing, regardless of what you do to deny them the HO shot, hence losing angles and ending up in a disadvantaged position.... basically clueless pilots as I said.
I have some nice .ahf of what I said, but, as long as PH is down, I can't post it! :p
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"I'm sorry but I don't believe it. If the other guy is trying to HO you and misses it means he at least passed close to you. If he extends while you have to turn you burn E and he doesn't. Somehow "easily being on his six in a matter of seconds" doesn't add up in this scenario. Wait, I take it back, you are on his six but 3K off. Unless your in a faster plane then I still don't see where "the kill is yours".
"
hey baldeagle,
i still have a film somewhere of you in a P51 and your wingman in a spitfire both dive on me 3000ft below you. you went for a shot, missed and then i 'was on your 6 in a matter of seconds' and shot you in the pilot, boom!
sure, had i missed you could have extended and come back for another BnZ attempt but i didnt miss and your wingman died just after :)
bat
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Originally posted by B@tfinkV
"I'm sorry but I don't believe it. If the other guy is trying to HO you and misses it means he at least passed close to you. If he extends while you have to turn you burn E and he doesn't. Somehow "easily being on his six in a matter of seconds" doesn't add up in this scenario. Wait, I take it back, you are on his six but 3K off. Unless your in a faster plane then I still don't see where "the kill is yours".
"
hey baldeagle,
i still have a film somewhere of you in a P51 and your wingman in a spitfire both dive on me 3000ft below you. you went for a shot, missed and then i 'was on your 6 in a matter of seconds' and shot you in the pilot, boom!
sure, had i missed you could have extended and come back for another BnZ attempt but i didnt miss and your wingman died just after :)
bat
What did the 5 Fingers say too the Face?
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Originally posted by B@tfinkV
"I'm sorry but I don't believe it. If the other guy is trying to HO you and misses it means he at least passed close to you. If he extends while you have to turn you burn E and he doesn't. Somehow "easily being on his six in a matter of seconds" doesn't add up in this scenario. Wait, I take it back, you are on his six but 3K off. Unless your in a faster plane then I still don't see where "the kill is yours".
"
hey baldeagle,
i still have a film somewhere of you in a P51 and your wingman in a spitfire both dive on me 3000ft below you. you went for a shot, missed and then i 'was on your 6 in a matter of seconds' and shot you in the pilot, boom!
sure, had i missed you could have extended and come back for another BnZ attempt but i didnt miss and your wingman died just after :)
bat
Never claimed I win em all :)
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just sayin' it can be done and is often done to me and to others hehe
'on yes six in a matter of seconds' moments can come even from a HO merge as long as the person doing the on yer six bit is slightly off angle and ready for the move.
usually only count for something with cannon armed birds and lucky shooting though.
S!
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Originally posted by Gianlupo
... and that means I can easily be on his six in a matter of seconds. Just avoid the first HO, and the kill is yours! ;)
Btw, being on the other guy's six in a matter of seconds doesn't mean killing him in that time: just that if you don't follow him in the rush for the HO, you can control the rest of the fight from his rear quarter and eventually kill him. I'm afraid I wrote those words in too much of a rush.
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Yes, you are correct, but that had to do with where your damage showed up. They were still able to turn on and off HO's. I'm pretty sure they were able to do this because it had to do with where the shots came from rather than where they hit.
Originally posted by GunnerCAF
AW had the randomizer (better known as the reamdomizer), where you took damage was based on a roll of a dice. Nothing to do with HOs or where you were hit.
Gunner
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?????
You read allot into things, don't you?
Originally posted by WMDnow
Thank you for supporting someone who calls the game 'real life'.
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Originally posted by StuB
Yes, you are correct, but that had to do with where your damage showed up. They were still able to turn on and off HO's. I'm pretty sure they were able to do this because it had to do with where the shots came from rather than where they hit.
In AW, taking engine damage with HOs turned off had nothing to do with HOs. It was random damage given when the sever saw a hit on the bubble. HOs were turned off to compensate for the lack of collisions. So, there is no real comparison between AW and AH.
AH has no random things, or turned off realism for compensation. It's all part of the game, cut it too close, you collide. Fly directly at someone, you can get HOed.
I just don't think the solution to stopping HOs is to shame people out of it as it was done in AW. Kill them until they figure it out :)
Gunner
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I meant that the randomizer had to do with where the damage showed up, not where it came from.
Anyway, I agree with your 100 %.
Originally posted by GunnerCAF
In AW, taking engine damage with HOs turned off had nothing to do with HOs. It was random damage given when the sever saw a hit on the bubble. HOs were turned off to compensate for the lack of collisions. So, there is no real comparison between AW and AH.
AH has no random things, or turned off realism for compensation. It's all part of the game, cut it too close, you collide. Fly directly at someone, you can get HOed.
I just don't think the solution to stopping HOs is to shame people out of it as it was done in AW. Kill them until they figure it out :)
Gunner
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"your just to thick to understand any of what was typed is all.
This track was designed for teaching deflections in a 2 or 3 Vs. 1
I never HO shoot anyone except bombers or LTAR's"
That track has been around for sometime AApache used to host HO-OFF nights was actually alot of fun but i dont see deflection shot training sry.
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Originally posted by JimBeam
"your just to thick to understand any of what was typed is all.
This track was designed for teaching deflections in a 2 or 3 Vs. 1
I never HO shoot anyone except bombers or LTAR's"
That track has been around for sometime AApache used to host HO-OFF nights was actually alot of fun but i dont see deflection shot training sry.
It's mainly in the curves JIM, thats where we all try to make are shots
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Originally posted by Sweet2th
It's mainly in the curves JIM, thats where we all try to make are shots
You mean take all of your HO shots.
ack-ack