Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: Simaril on April 01, 2007, 07:52:38 PM
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Looking back, I can see that almost every game I play I have a similar play style: set a solid foundation, make solid, high probability moves, and wait for the opponent to make a mistake. When the mistake is made, then pounce and keep the pressure on...kinda like an anaconda.
Not to say that I am timid, because I'm really not. Conservative....well, yes.
Anyway, this is so much a part of who I am that I have a hard time stepping past it. It was probably a year ago that I did a pickup fight with Schatzi in the TA...and after I worked into an advantaged position, I worked step by step onto her 6 and pinged her up. I asked for tips, and I still remember her comment -- "You positioned with these beautiful loops and rolls, but you need to be thinking get in there and KILL HER!'
So... the point.
I have a film here of what amounts to a 1v1 against a less experienced player. We closed to fight almost as soon as the enemy ID was made, so I didnt have a good read on his energy status -- although since I was closer to his base than mine I suspected he was at a slower, climbing speed. I passed up the first merge because I thought he was beneath me and maybe faster, and I wanted to be closer to his alt (or even below him) at merge. I reversed, and at second merge I figured I had won the fight since he went for the HO and I did an Immel.
But it took me way, way too long to finish him off. I seemed to put preserving my advantage ahead of actually getting the kill, and even looking at the film again I dont see exactly what moves I should have done to A) kill him without B) giving away the advantage I had won at the merge, and having to win the fight all over.
here's the 2.5 min film (http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/889_1175048228_whatwentwrongnumberone.ahf)
I'd really appreciate specific advice about how I could have played this better. I am not ever going to be a Batfink-style, who-needs-that-stinkin-E-get-the-kill-NOW kind of player. Not that there's anything wrong with that ( to Jerry Seinfeld) -- it just isnt me. Short of that, tell me a film time and a move I could have made!
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Apart from not having enough separation on the merge (either vertical or horizontal) you messed up at about 1:13. You had a 100% shot and you didn't take it. If you have bad aim and you need a half second longer for a shot, you should have cut throttle a bit at 1:10 and tighten up so you could keep sight on him a tad bit longer.
Second mistake was not controlling slow speed nose up ride at about 2:18. Notch of flap and you'd have more stable platform for your shot. Instead you messed up a shot and your nose started dropping.
In conclusion, you need to improve your merge, aim, slow speed handling, drink fresh blood and eat raw meat to get that killer instinct...
PS
Yahtzee was damn right. You need to smell blood and go for a kill.
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I don't think you did all that bad. Most of your time was used up in the first merge and re-engaging. Once you got on top, the 38 pilot thought he was in trouble and tried to bail on the fight and get some separation.... he didn't get enough :) You then had to spend more time to chase him down to kill him and he helped by mis-judging your "E" and going for a rope.
Had you done the second merge first the fight time would have been cut in half. When you did get on top, knowing he went for the HO in the merge you could have taken the chance to chop throttle and turn in for the shot before he dove away. On the other hand, a good 38 stick would have spiral climbed or another vert move which would have left you hung out to dry after chopping your throttle at the top of that climb just after the 2 min mark.
All in all not a bad fight. Ya just got to decide if you want to take the chance that its a rookie in that 38, or someone like Murdr, AkAk, Twin or any other good stick in a 38. A rookie you win a bit quicker, a good stick, you get a nice shiny new plane :aok
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I don't see what your issue is. I watched the film. You won, right? You controlled the fight? Case closed.
What could have you done better? I dont think you should have bailed out after the 1st merge. He gave you room (seperation) to turn onto his 6 nice and easy like but you didnt take it (you were almost there when you bug out). Your suspicion that you had more E initially was right. Its immediately clear that this is not likely to be an 'Ace'/'Vet' due to the gap he left undefended on the 1st merge. So you should realise that you hold the E advantage, you have a faster aircraft, and one which isnt outclassed by a P38, you are also not likely to be in for a tough time against an AKAK or equivalent, there are also no other enemies to worry about. Trust your initial judgement. All signals say grab it hard and fast you've nothing to loose. Faster you can dismiss the enemy, the faster you can return to scanning the skies, look for another victim, or go home.
My 2 cents anyways...
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Thanks guys.
Not really an issue so much as trying to learn a new way of thinking -- and since it doesnt come naturally, I was looking for specific step by step examples of what "good" aggressive fighting looks like.
Got several good, specific suggestions here. I relaize I focused so much on what was a "good" merge for ME that I missed how to take advantage of HIS bad merge on first pass. Could have done a lead turn to cash in on the lateral separation, maybe a chandelle. And, once I'm pretty sure I'm not getting suckered by a "fake new guy" , I can do unsafe things to kill quickly...understanding that every so often I'll get hammered by a wolf in sheep's clothing.
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in the main arena, making a shot, taking it and making it count are first steps i always aim for.
Outflying people comes second and only to get myself back in possition for step one, making,taking and breaking.
thats why im a furballer and not a smart flyer.
Its all about how you play i think, sim.
Smart flyer? then Spatula nailed it, you won, you controled the fight and you survived. case closed.
Furballer? bighorn or fugitive nailed it, find your killer instinct and let ACM come secondary to killing. work on throttle alot more to make a slim chance shot become the end of the fight. Dont want to cut your E and commit to the shot incase you miss? i always say commit, hit or miss, then pay the price for missing or fly away into the sunset.
then also i geuss you can say today im flying as the 'smart flyer' or today im flying as the 'furballer', if you dont want to catagorise yourself as one or the other.
my 2c
S!
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I've been at this game a very long time and I still stink! I've often wondered why and why I can't seem to improve. However, there are times when I do very well. For example, when NC State beat Carolina in basketball earlier this year, I got on that night and "killed everybody" :D I was so pumped up! I haven't done that well in a long time nor since. I've always realized that confidence and aggressiveness plays a major role and I'm a bit deficient in both regards. Thus my apparent inability to improve.
I'm reading Chuck Yeager's biography right now and it is so obvious to me what it takes to be a good fighter pilot. Good technique is certainly part of it but that "blood-thirsty craziness" is the where the life is.
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I'm writing this as I'm watching so its "as I 1st see it".
I stopped the clip at 8 sec...prior you made no adjustments to gain proper seperation. At the 8 second mark you've put youre lift vector in what looks like a pure horizontal hook....given its a 38 and you dont know E state I think the overall merge wasnt well set up....(again being hardcore here)
At 12 you've corrected...but that hitch could cost you vs a good stick
caught your "didnt like the merge....really good judgement knowing you blew it:)
Stopped at 56 seconds with tracers off your right wing...I'd have to go back and look but I think i'd have made a wider lower turn...it seemed on 1st observation your pulling up into his HO...a closer call then it should have been (again being picky)
1:03....he blew it here....whatever chance he had given HO he lost...nice views good move but I wonder what would have happened had emmeled with you....
1:33
You switched from lag to lead and zoomed site...con is buried under your nose...I'd have stayed in lag...
Stopped at 1:13....38 is in site but you havent shot....you went from lag to lead where i'd have pulled up and done a "wing over" I think a less agreesive to more aggresive move ends fight right here....curious to see what happens....nice correction but by going in plane you gave up relative angles going vertical late IMO...
Hmmm film viewer crapped out...
1:33
You switched from lag to lead and zoomed site...con is buried under your nose...I'd have stayed in lag...
All in all you did everything right given what you saw. From a "technical merit" viewpoint you did alot of little things wrong (which most of us including me do).
Biggest thing I saw is that neither merge is really good....not at all bad but not good....go dig skyrock up....great hog merge guy and will share (or any trainer)....
2nd is you tend (in this clip) to go to lead early...I beleive you always pull thru the shot in this type of encounter.
3rd is no clear set of tactics....the shot you get is as much his mistakes as your flying (and this is common)....from a macro level you flew great....clearly took the high ground established control and "won" his 6....
But you showed weakness in your positioning that would have let a better stick reverse you...also that can let a guy get away...
most of us are stuck in the same boat. We have parts of the game down....few of us have answers to all the questions on the test.
I had a chance to fly a few with Bat in the DA over the weekend in spit V's(.303's only). I was amazed at how well he adjusts to the merge during the merge. Literally changing angles, throttle, flightpath to everything I'm trying. I think this is the hardest "skill" to learn {on offense or defense}.
Basically you've got all the fundementals down well (from what I saw)....its all in learning how to "audible" now. Since bat and I are two similiar styles one thing we both have in common is a good feel for flying "lag"...now we do it since if we pull at all we'll stall:)....but once you get that feel for just hanging in till the {best chekov voice} "captain we've got power to the phasers" light in your head goes off and you pull the nose right thru the con and hose him off your kill rate goes way up...
As a side note I dont like the zoom stuff....when he's close enough for me to shoot I can read the brail on the cockpit:aok
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Thanks a lot!
This is exactly the kind I stuff Iwas hoping for. I'm looking forward to having the time to go back over the film with the comments in hand, but tonite that irritating real life got in the way....
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Originally posted by Simaril
Thanks a lot!
This is exactly the kind I stuff Iwas hoping for. I'm looking forward to having the time to go back over the film with the comments in hand, but tonite that irritating real life got in the way....
Once you reach the level your at its all in the little things. For most of us we have some guys we own and others who own us....until you reach that very elite level you'll find that you can beat A but A can beat B and B cleans your clock.
What happens is you react to certain moves more or less instictively in certain ways...because they work most of the time in combination with other aspects of how you fly. When you fight that guy who gets you "off your game" all of a sudden none of your stuff "flows" and you feel behind the entire fight.
Again overall you did "everything" right....i'm just nitpicking for ya
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Originally posted by humble
Once you reach the level your at its all in the little things. For most of us we have some guys we own and others who own us....until you reach that very elite level you'll find that you can beat A but A can beat B and B cleans your clock.
What happens is you react to certain moves more or less instictively in certain ways...because they work most of the time in combination with other aspects of how you fly. When you fight that guy who gets you "off your game" all of a sudden none of your stuff "flows" and you feel behind the entire fight.
in shorter words.,... "We tend to let Player B get in our heads"
keep em out of your head, and you can prevail........
case in point ---> I have cartoon plane dogfoughted ALOT of good players, but when I fly against BluKitty, without even noticing it is happening, my mind processes "oh crap, here I go against BluKitty again!"
when I am really using my noggin and not letting stuff like this cloud my mental picture, I would call it a 50/50 crapshoot.........
when my mental picture gets clouded it is more like a 99 to 1 odds........with me being the 1, the winner being the 99.........
gotta love Shane's Quote ( Location: in your heads :aok )
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"Location: in your puny heads"
;)
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Originally posted by Simaril
"You positioned with these beautiful loops and rolls, but you need to be thinking get in there and KILL HER!'
Sounds like some of my advice :D
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That 38 pilot had no clue but you did get the kill.
When you see a person HO on merge like that go for the kill. I find that if you play with them and they notice that they are in a bad spot most players will run. Go for the kill and dont let the other guy have a chance at running.
Your in a Hog and their are only a hand full pf players that could have giving you a hard fight. Merge like your in the da and kill him.. If you dont make the fast kill thats when you get picked by the high 190.. In this fight it wasnt a factor but its always a good idea to get it over with and move on.
Their is no reason to keep your E in that fight..
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Originally posted by FX1
That 38 pilot had no clue but you did get the kill.
When you see a person HO on merge like that go for the kill. I find that if you play with them and they notice that they are in a bad spot most players will run. Go for the kill and dont let the other guy have a chance at running.
Your in a Hog and their are only a hand full pf players that could have giving you a hard fight. Merge like your in the da and kill him.. If you dont make the fast kill thats when you get picked by the high 190.. In this fight it wasnt a factor but its always a good idea to get it over with and move on.
Their is no reason to keep your E in that fight..
Yeah, that's the core of my problem. My default instincts go heavily toward energy retention, but when I try to get "aggressive" I lose most of my smarts and end up dead, or blow the advantage so I have to win the fight all over. You guys have been great with the specific comments -- and like Humble said earlier, getting out of the pattern of reacting to certain moves certain ways can be a challenge.
Now I've got to take those suggestions, and turn them into new reaction patterns. That's what it takes to get better....and i want to keep learning, not just keep playing the same old ways.
Thanks again!
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Erich Alfred "Bubi" Hartmann - The Pride of the Luftwaffe & The Highest Scoring Fighter Pilot Of All Time :
"I knew that if an enemy pilot started firing early, well outside the maximum effective range of his guns then he was an easy kill. But, if a pilot closed in and held his fire, and seemed to be watching the situation, then you knew that an experienced pilot was on you."
.... it is true. I have noticed that in this game.
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What's fun is to fly like a newb at the start of an engagement. Sometimes your opponent, sensing an easy kill, will "hang it out" more and be overly confident or allow himself to be dragged away from the flock.
That sheep that doesn't seem to know how to merge and is spraying BB's from 1.5 may actually be a wolf. ;)
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Originally posted by Simaril
but when I try to get "aggressive" I lose most of my smarts and end up dead, or blow the advantage so I have to win the fight all over.
That's because flying aggressively is not a list of moves to learn. It's a thought pattern, or better said, a "State of Mind".
It is that alone what separates top sticks from the rest.
During Korean war, Nellis AFB had fighter school (under leadership of famous Mj. Blesse) to re-learn pilots to dogfight, they tought: "be aggressive or all your other capabilities will be wasted".
They published newsletter titled "No Guts No Glory". Losts of copies on the internet. Download and read.
Of course, excellent ACM skills are just a foundation to build on. As Mj. Blesse said, guts will do for skill but not consistently...