Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Pyro on April 02, 2007, 10:00:04 AM
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The He 111 and Me 410 were eliminated in Round 2. Round 3 voting has begun with the next plane set to be eliminated on Wednesday.
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ze germans are gone!
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:confused: :( :huh :cry :mad:
:furious :furious :furious :furious
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<--- has new prediction tool for non-random events; "The Gianlupo Index" has 100% accuracy so far in naming the losing aircraft!
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Originally posted by Simaril
<--- has new prediction tool for non-random events; "The Gianlupo Index" has 100% accuracy so far in naming the losing aircraft!
lol :lol
don't pick the Yak-3 or A-26 Gianlupo... i want either of those to win :D
(jk)
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Such crap.
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Originally posted by Simaril
<--- has new prediction tool for non-random events; "The Gianlupo Index" has 100% accuracy so far in naming the losing aircraft!
:rofl
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Originally posted by Joachim
Such crap.
Yup..it would be nice if they modeled the top 5.
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Its as though there is a steady removal from the contest of the more interesting aircraft; the result will be a ho-hum boring aircraft like the P.39 or B.25, both of which have the personality of a comatose eggplant.
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NNNOOO!!!!
:cry
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I really am suprised the Yak-3, has hung on this long. My guess would have the G-55 in its place at this point, but every thing else is going acording to my prediction. Some first round outs really surprised me tho.
The G-55 out the first round, was a real shocker. Three 20mm cannons, and 2 12.7mm MG's pack a nasty punch. I thought that it would at least make it to round 3.
Still looks like the p-39 is the frontrunner. Fighters will generally win these things. Look for the Yak to be out this round. The American voting block is a power untu itself, and the vast "fighter" majority will see it through.
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Originally posted by Joachim
Its as though there is a steady removal from the contest of the more interesting aircraft; the result will be a ho-hum boring aircraft like the P.39 or B.25, both of which have the personality of a comatose eggplant.
That would be your opinion of course, not based on any fact. I'd suggest you do a bit of reading on the wartime careers of the 39 and 25. you might find out differently.
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Of course its my opinion, just as everyone else's is there own. I know quite enough about the Cobra and Mitchell thank you, enough to know I don't want either. I'm not saying their histories lack any color, I'm saying the planes themselves do.
All my own opinion of course.
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See new line added to signature. :furious
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Originally posted by Treize69
See new line added to signature. :furious
Everything is Corkys fault! Always has been, always will be.:D
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Originally posted by Iron_Cross
I really am surprised the Yak-3, has hung on this long. My guess would have the G-55 in its place at this point, .....
The G-55 out the first round, was a real shocker. Three 20mm cannons, and 2 12.7mm MG's pack a nasty punch. I thought that it would at least make it to round 3.
Still looks like the p-39 is the frontrunner. Fighters will generally win these things. Look for the Yak to be out this round. The American voting block is a power untu itself, and the vast "fighter" majority will see it through.
I was surprised losing the He-111. I thought Battle of Britain would have seen it to at least Round 3.
That the Yak 3 has outlasted the gun heavy G.55 also a surprise. Yak-3 was one of the best dog-fighters of the war, but it's limited gun package a fuel range in the LW arena would hurt it's chances, I thought. Not sure how well a Yak-3 will work against all the LaLas, Nikis, Ponies, and Spits found in LW. It's more maneuverable but a tad slower than the Yak 9U, and the Yak 9U is not that common to see. Might be people thinking this bird is more uber than it really is.
P-39 is a front runner among the forum polls. I'm betting (and hoping I'm wrong) that the B-25 is still in the running on online vote, due to easy name recognition.
Originally posted by Guppy35
That would be your opinion of course, not based on any fact. I'd suggest you do a bit of reading on the wartime careers of the 39 and 25. you might find out differently.
War time careers don't always translate into a GAME, especially LW Arena where planes that never matched up in the war, are seen flying together and against each other on a regular basis.
The B-25 is slower, has half the climb rate, and carried less ord than a B-26. It's an EW medium bomber. Mid-Late war models carried 75mm and many .50's in the nose, but in the War at that time, Allies dominated the airspace. If a B-25 had to contend with LaLas, Nikis, Splixteens, Ponies, Osties on the ground, and many 109's and 190's, I doubt they would fair well --- just does not have the performance.
The A-26 *might* but no guarantees there either, as it would come in as a perk ride, and therefore be hung with the "KILL ME" icon in the arenas. But giving the buff drivers a second perk ride is enough of an argument, IMHO.
B-25 is an EW, MW, AvA, or SEA plane. Certainly not a LW bomber. As EW, MW, AvA and SEA have very small numbers compared to LW, and this is a popular vote, and most LW participants like the better performance machines, I would not expect the B-25 to make final cut, unless it does so on simple name recognition of the Doolittle Raid and movies ("I'm On Fire! Save Me, Ben Affleck!").
This is very possible the B-25 will make final vote; I'd expect, on performance numbers alone, that the Me 410 would have beaten the B-25. It didn't. There is also the case of the American bias at work in popular vote. 3 of last 4 are American made rides.
P-39 would fair well in low population EW, MW, AvA, and SEA. It might do okay in LW arenas.... but again, I think expectations might be higher than what is reasonable. P-39 only had to go up against German B&Z, a few medium bombers, and ground attack planes during the war.
P-39
A-26
B-25
Yak-3
I could live with any but the B-25. It played a BIG part in the War, but would be such a small nich plane in the Game.
A-26 perk ride for buff drivers remains may favorite. Hopefully the voters have becomes more acquainted with the remaining contestants over the weekend.
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Democracy sux! :cry
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Democracy sux!
Might not though, let's ask for a vote.
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Thank you for your opinion.
Thank you for country bashing.
Thank you for voting.
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Originally posted by Shifty
Everything is Corkys fault! Always has been, always will be.:D
Damn right! It's all part of my plan to take over the world!
:noid :noid :t :D
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Originally posted by mipoikel
Democracy sux! :cry
Heck, we Americans all know that.... just look at what we end up running our country out of "Disneyland on the Potomac"?
Can't trust the Proles with something like the vote. Just doesn't work well.
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I find it interesting to note the results of Googling
P-39
A-26
B-25
Yak 3
From HTC's perspective I am still surprised the Yak3 is not considered a variant of the other Yaks. It is no more different to the AH Yak9's than a Spit XVI is to the other spits...less so infact.
The Yak3 is a variant...........a one off.
The p39 could be limited to Q/N versions and have limited work load
but the potential diversity of the B25's & A26's makes each of them significant projects for HTC if they are released to fullfill many of the wishes espoused here
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Originally posted by tedrbr
The A-26 *might* but no guarantees there either, as it would come in as a perk ride, and therefore be hung with the "KILL ME" icon in the arenas. But giving the buff drivers a second perk ride is enough of an argument, IMHO.
I'm not convinced the A-26 would need to be perked. A P-47D-40 can carry 2,500 lb of bombs and 10 rockets. It's much faster than the A-26 and a viable dogfighter when used correctly. Likewise, the A-20G can carry 4,000 lb of bombs and has the ability to give fighters a genuine headache should the pilot know how to fly the A-20G.
I would prefer to see the A-26's impact on the arenas before I'd consider perking it.
Also, I would not rule out the B-25 being effective in the LWAs. I fly the Boston III in the LWAs with good success. Ditto with the SBD and TBM. Likewise, I'll not hesitate to maneuver fight when flying a B-26 either, should I need to.
There are few absolutes in this game, and nothing is certain when lead starts flying.
My regards,
Widewing
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Well, now that the Me410 is out I'll vote for the B-25. At least it fills a gap, unlike the P-39, Yak-3 and A-26.
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Gianlupo
I hope you dont vote for what i want anymore it seems to not be working out for either of the planes i picked:cry
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As each plane I voted for was immediately kicked out of the competition, I should vote for the B-25 now... :noid
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Lusche, I was thinking the exact same thing, only in regards to the A-26.
:noid
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I don't think we have enough american planes, but they are so good so i chose them.
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Poor Heinkel... :cry
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Originally posted by Karnak
Well, now that the Me410 is out I'll vote for the B-25.
Every plane Karnak has voted for has been eliminated......
Guess the 25 will be the next to fall. My vote is still on the 39
:lol
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NEW YORK- Lost amid the hoopla surrounding the celebrations of the end of World War II has been the 50th anniversary of the army plane crash into the Empire State Building. Many do not know of the tragic incident of July 28, 1945 -- the day a B-25 bomber, lost in fog, rammed into what was then the world's tallest building. Fewer, still, remember the miraculous survival of the woman who fell 75 stories when the cables to her elevator were severed.
Lieutenant Colonel William F. Smith, Jr., a decorated veteran of 100 combat missions, was piloting the bomber from his home in Bedford, Massachusetts to Newark, New Jersey to pick up his commanding officer, before returning to home base in South Dakota. The flight plan called for Smith to land at LaGuardia Airport. A dense fog over the city led the air traffic controller to direct that a landing be made. Smith, however, apparently believing he could maneuver safely through the fog, asked and received permission to fly on to Newark -- on the other side of Manhattan from LaGuardia. The last thing the air traffic controller told Smith was, 'At the present time, I can't see the top of the Empire State Building.'
The War Department, now a section of the Defense Department, later determined the pilot erred in judgment when electing to fly over Manhattan in the weather conditions which prevailed at the time' -- Smith should never have been cleared to proceed on to Newark. Disoriented by the dense fog, he apparently believed he was on Manhattan's west side.
Smith's final blunder came when he passed the Chrysler Building. Had he kicked the left rudder, he would have been safe; instead, he went right rudder and directly on a path to the Empire State Building. At 200 miles per hour, the unarmed trainer bomber screamed down 42nd Street and banked south over 5th Avenue. The pilot tried desperately to climb, but it was too late. At 9:40 that Saturday morning, the B-25 slammed into the 79th floor of the Empire State Building.
Luckily, the accident occurred on a weekend, with only about 1,500 people in the building -- compared with the 10,000-15,000 on an average weekday. Still, 14 died in the accident -- 11 in the building, plus Colonel Smith and the other two occupants of the plane. Hardest hit was the Catholic War Relief Office on the 79th floor, directly in the path of the bomber. Eight relief office workers were killed.
Extensive Damage Reported
Damage to the building and the surrounding area was extensive. An 18-by-20 foot hole was gouged by the B-25, and one of the plane's engines plowed through the building, emerging on the 33rd Street side and crashing through the roof of a neighboring building. Upon impact, windows shattered, and glass fell to the street. When the bomber hit, its fuel tanks exploded, sending flames racing across the 79th floor in all directions. According to Althea S. Lethbridge, a secretary for a trading company on the 72nd floor, 'Everything shook. (At the window), we saw flames below and above us. It was scary; we didn't know how fireproof the building was.'
Lethbridge and those not severely injured had to walk 70 flights down the darkened stairwell. Many reported seeing flaming debris fall down the elevator shafts. Unaware that the plane's other engine and part of its landing gear had fallen through the elevator shaft, rescue workers used elevators to transport casualties.
Unbeknownst to rescuers, when the hoist and governor cables of one of the elevators had been severed, ropes to other cars had been weakened. Nevertheless, the elevators had to be used to transport those severely injured, including Betty Lou Oliver. As the plane hit, Oliver, an elevator operator, was blown out of her post on the 80th floor and badly burned. After receiving first aid, she was put in another car to go down to an ambulance. As the elevator doors closed, rescue workers heard what sounded like a gunshot but what was, in fact, the snapping of elevator cables weakened by the crash. The car with Oliver inside, now at the 75th floor, plunged to the sub-basement, a fall of over 1,000 feet. Rescuers had to cut a hole in the car to get to the badly injured elevator operator.
Despite a harrowing experience, Oliver survived, due in large part to the elevator safety devices which served their function, though perhaps not as envisioned. The elevator car safety could not set because the governor cable had been severed by the plane's impact. Therefore, other factors contributed to slowing the elevator and 'cushioning' its fall. As the elevator fell, the compensating cables, hanging from beneath the car, piled up in the pit and acted as a coiled spring, slowing the elevator. Also, the hatchway was of a 'high-pressure' design, with minimum clearance around the car. In such a small space, the air was compressed under the falling elevator. With such a tight fit of the car in the hatchway, the trapped air created an air cushion in the lower portion of the shaft -- thereby further slowing the elevator car and allowing its occupant to survive.
Though this accident can certainly be noted as a tragedy, some comfort can be found; the loss of life was certainly not as great as it could have been. Had it occurred on a weekday, the accident would have claimed many more casualties. If the plane had been a fully armed B-25 bomber instead of a trainer, the destruction and devastation could have been catastrophic. In addition, had the elevator been installed improperly or had its safety devices been of poor quality -- even though they may not have worked exactly as envisioned, they still performed their duty by saving a human life -- Ms. Oliver could not have fallen 1,000 feet in an elevator and lived to tell about it.
In the March 1957 Reader's Digest, an article was published concerning the 'Nightmare on the 79th floor of the Empire State Building.' Following the Reader's Digest report, a letter was written by an Otis Elevator Company supervisor who was in charge of the elevator repair. The writer, who wished to remain anonymous, presented a detailed and colorful explanation of the damage and extensive repair effort. Following is a synopsis of the elevator supervisor's report.
Elevators Damaged
I was superintendent for Otis Elevator Company and in charge of installing the 69 elevators when the Empire State Building was erected in 1930-31. When the steel was up to the main floor, I got in with my men -- the first week in May 1930. On May 1, 1931, the building with the elevators was completed, a remarkable undertaking in so short a time. On that day, we had lunch on the 86th floor. The party included James Walker, then New York City mayor; Franklin D. Roosevelt, then governor of the state; and my good friend Al Smith, ex-governor and president of the Empire State Corporation.
While the building was under construction, I always had a car running, so I could take Governor Smith and his party to the top. Architects and construction men from all over the world visited the building while it was under construction.
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In September, at the peak, 3,500 men worked on the construction, and temporary elevators had to take them up and down. They never walked much -- six stories, at the most, to the top of the steel.
When the army bomber struck the building, I was called in to take charge of repairing the damage and get all 11 elevators running up to the 80th floor -- ten Bank 'G', one freight and #2 tower car, from 79th to 86th floor.
One plane motor went right through the bottom of the car equipment, hitting one of our guide rails (3-1/2 x 5"), doubling it in a 'V' shape. The motor then went through the building, tore a hole 20 feet wide, took the windows and wall down with it (78 floors) and landed in a building across the 33rd Street side. The plane was moving upward when it struck. (The pilot must have seen the building.) Walls between the three columns were torn 40 feet wide, the plane taking bricks and windows from the 78th and 79th floors with it, as well as one 10" I-beam -- eight feet inside the building -- supporting the 79th floor; the 20 foot long beam had a 30" bow. The plane penetrated the #6 and #7 car hatch walls, cutting the cable on the #6 car that was on its way down. Our selector in the motor room indicated the cables were cut when the car was at about the 38th floor.
Cables Sheared
All the governor and safety cables were sheared, so the car went into free fall. Fortunately for the female operator, the safety cable was severed; if not, the governor in the motor room would have applied the safety device under the cable. The car would then have stopped at the 34th and 35th floor in a blind hatch (blind hatch means no doors from the 40th to the main floor express cars) -- with marble and brick walls to break through to find where the car was located. When anything like that would happen, a mechanic can take the people off to the car next to his. Doors exist between the cars for that purpose, but the #7 car was hanging in the cables and burning on the 80th floor. The #6 car was afire -- it, too, stuck up there. The girl operator might have died from smoke suffocation.
A few seconds later, the car was in the basement. Fortunately, a basement door was in the #6 car shaft. The car doors were completely ripped out. No doubt, the air pressure -- caused by the car coming down -- blasted open the door in the pit. The operator stood in the corner, where the car switch was located. The rest of the car was filled with steel, bricks and plane parts. It surprised me that she was not more badly hurt.
When the installers first tested the safeties on the elevators, they had full load capacity -- 3500 lb -- in the car and ran them at 1,200 fpm from the tenth floor right down to the oil bluffers in the pits.
Now, the car was empty, and the cables under the car formed another cushion. The counterweight (balancing weight) was at about the 50th floor when the cables were cut. Over 10,000 lbs of iron started down. The two safety cables, also cut, struck the pit buffer block, went through 12" of concrete, shearing thirty 1" rivets; two 15" channels imbedded in concrete. (The column was only five feet away from the buffer block, the buffer piston and the weight oil buffer.) A steel rod -- 4" and about nine feet long -- went right through the concrete, broke a water main pipe, flooded the sub-basement, went through an 8" solid brick wall and landed in a storeroom in the sub-basement.
This was in addition to the oil, gas and bodies of the people from the 79th floor. We had the police emergency squad with us for ten days. When cleaned from the top of the car, we had to cut the cable by hand to get them out. It was a mess to clean up!
Motor Cuts Hoisted
The motor went through the doors, the #6 and #7 cars, and over the hall, taking the wall and hatch doors with it down the #2 hatch. The motor cut the cables to that car. Cars #1 and #2 were shut down on the main floor and only slid down the bumpers with all the cables, doors, plane motor and parts on top of the #2 car. The counterweight was up at the 80th floor. When the cables were cut, 10,000 lbs of steel started down, but luckily, the two governor cables were okay. The governor and safety caught the weight at the 76th floor and hung there. When the #6 car was on the way down, the #7 car operator stood at the 80th floor -- awaiting orders from the starter at the main floor for the signal to start down. When the plane struck, the operator was blown out into the hall.
The #7 car hanging in the cables (at the 80th floor) was all burnt up. The metal trim and car-operating switch were all melted. The guide rails were all knocked out under the car at the 79th floor.
Five months after the accident, the girl (Betty Lou Oliver) who was in the #6 car visited the building. I talked with her. She did not know what happened. It was over in a few seconds. She took one of the cars and made a full trip with it. That took 'guts' after all she had been through.
I was there one year before the job was finished. The #1 car got all busted up and had to be replaced. In a week, we had six cars in operation, next #1-2 cars and finally #6-7 cars. We had some job keeping the men's time and the materials straight. The Army had to pay for all damage done by the bomber; the First Insurance Company paid for the damage by fire.
We had to replace all our equipment in four hatches from the 76th floor to the top, replacing all electric conduits and wiring from the 64th floor up. We had to get in an elevator hoist containing 5,000 ft of 1/2" steel cables on it. One armature had a cracked shaft; we had to replace it: a weight of 9,500 lbs. We took it in on the main floor, hoisted it up to the 79th floor in the #6 hatch, hauled it over the hall to the #2 tower car hatch, picked it up with a chain fall -- attached to the main rails -- to the 82nd floor motor room and up in the machine. The damaged armature had to go down the same way.
We also had to hoist the #6 counterweight frame up to the 80th floor.
Only one elevator fell. Number 1 and 2 cars were shut down at the main floor; #6 car was in the pit, with the #7 car hanging in the cables on the 80th floor. Cars three, four, five, eight, nine and ten were in their own wells. The only damage to them was hatch doors at the 78th and 79th floors being scorched by fire. We had to put in new compensating cables on the freight car running from the sub-basement to the 80th floor. They were damaged when the pit filled with water from the broken water main. After the pit was pumped and safety switches dried, we had that car running in a few days.
Part of the plane slid down the outside of the building on the 34th Street side, landing on the opposite side of the 5th floor. Some boys picked up plane parts and sold them to souvenir hunters on the street.
Industry Tribute
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It has long been believed that the elevator operator who fell 75 stories was operating her elevator when the crash severed the cables to her car. Our recent investigation found that Betty Lou Oliver had actually been thrown from her car station post during the aircraft's initial impact. When the plane hit the building, Oliver's car was parked at the 80th floor. The crash severed elevator cables, but those supporting Oliver's car remained intact, although they and many other cable attachments were weakened. After receiving care for severe burns, Oliver was taking another elevator down from the 80th floor first aid station when this second car's weakened cables snapped, sending Oliver and her elevator on a 1,000-foot plunge.
An often-asked question is, 'Has there even been a case where all elevator ropes were severed, causing an elevator to fall?' The plane crash into the Empire State Building is the only such occurrence. This final report provides an accurate accounting of one of the most unusual accidents to ever occur in elevator and aircraft history.
Coincidentally, just two weeks after the 50th anniversary of the B-25 crash, another accident occurred at the Empire State Building. Though far less severe, this most recent incident may be of greater concern to the elevator industry, for reasons behind the elevator crash of September 12, 1995 are still unclear. There were no fatalities, but four occupants slammed into the car ceiling -- receiving head, neck and back injuries when their elevator missed its 80th floor stop and crashed into the top of the shaft. Investigations into the accident are underway, and details pertinent to the elevator industry will be reported by ELEVATOR WORLD
- William Roberts
Elevator World, March 1996
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(http://www.coffeyweb.com/empire072845_2ps.jpg)
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Originally posted by tedrbr
P-39 only had to go up against German B&Z, a few medium bombers, and ground attack planes during the war.
And it faced some of the best the IJAF and IJN had to offer in the South-West Pacific and it held up pretty good.
ack-ack
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:D
EXCELLENT! that means we wont have to deal with the He111
Why does everyone seem to like the He 111? the glass nose or it's so called nice looks? the thing was fast EARLY in the war but were soon out-classed by other planes.
As for the Me 410, it is a bit of a mystery. It was well-armed and took out tons of un-escorted bombers but was prone to being quote "mauled" by american escort aircraft
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Originally posted by Iron_Cross
I really am suprised the Yak-3, has hung on this long. My guess would have the G-55 in its place at this point, but every thing else is going acording to my prediction. Some first round outs really surprised me tho.
The G-55 out the first round, was a real shocker. Three 20mm cannons, and 2 12.7mm MG's pack a nasty punch. I thought that it would at least make it to round 3.
Still looks like the p-39 is the frontrunner. Fighters will generally win these things. Look for the Yak to be out this round. The American voting block is a power untu itself, and the vast "fighter" majority will see it through.
There seems to be alot of micconception with regard to the Yak-3. The plane does roughly ~405 so its actually slower then the Yak-9U we have by 15 mph or so....it has a higher wingloading so I dont think it will turn any better (although its got a reputation as a T&Ber). The 9U was the last and best WW2 bird yak put out from what I can find....
I think the 39 (when ever it arrives) will be a big suprise to many. I dont think the A26 is gonna fair any better then the 410 would have in a fight vs a fighter. Obviously pilot skill is always going to play a big part but the A26 has awful hvy wingloading as well....
Personally I think the G.55 was the best MA bird by far. The A26 will be a better all around Jabo bird then the B-26 (certainly be the best vulcher in game). The He111 and P-39 are/were most needed scenario wise (along with oscar). I think the B-25 might just win out over the P-39 but it'll be close.......
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in typical soviet fashion the yak 3 entered service after the yak 9. the yak 3 was reportedly superior to the 9 in all but top speed.
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Originally posted by Willfly
:D
EXCELLENT! that means we wont have to deal with the He111
Why does everyone seem to like the He 111? the glass nose or it's so called nice looks? the thing was fast EARLY in the war but were soon out-classed by other planes.
I'm just guessing, but I think a lot of the guys that are vocal for the early war planes, would like to see them for Special Events. I know I'm all for more early war planes for just that reason. however the rubber meets the road in this game with main arenas.:)
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VOTE FOR B-25
(http://www.richard-seaman.com/Aircraft/AirShows/Nellis2004/Highlights/B25WallOfFire.jpg)
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nothing left to vote for, so no vote for the rest of the "competition" from me.
looks like we'll get just what the MA needed. Another allied / American bomber to kill fighter hangars.
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Yak-3 will get my vote. When that goes out next round i will forfeit.
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Originally posted by humble
There seems to be alot of micconception with regard to the Yak-3. The plane does roughly ~405 so its actually slower then the Yak-9U we have by 15 mph or so....it has a higher wingloading so I dont think it will turn any better (although its got a reputation as a T&Ber). The 9U was the last and best WW2 bird yak put out from what I can find....
The Yak-3 was lighter and more maneuverable than the Yak-9 and used the same engine as the Yak-9. Below 16,000ft, the Yak-3 outclassed any LW fighter.
ack-ack
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I had been voting for the Me410.
My vote just shifted to the B-25
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Originally posted by Ball
Yak-3 will get my vote. When that goes out next round i will forfeit.
Same. If the Yak is dropped then I ill just forfeit as the remaining aircraft are all equally unpalatable.
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Originally posted by JB73
nothing left to vote for, so no vote for the rest of the "competition" from me.
looks like we'll get just what the MA needed. Another allied / American bomber to kill fighter hangars.
Agreed, I was just thinking the same thing. All the remaining choices will be hanger queens after the first few weeks anyway.
Time to get the HT rigged the vote in favor of what they wanted to build anyway thread going!
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
The Yak-3 was lighter and more maneuverable than the Yak-9 and used the same engine as the Yak-9. Below 16,000ft, the Yak-3 outclassed any LW fighter.
ack-ack
the Yak-3 (production model) had the VK-105-2 {1290hp}. The Yak-9U had the VK-107A {1500 hp}. However the wingloading on the Yak-3 is marginally better (I thought it was the other way around) and it has a better initial rate of climb by a good 300ft/min+.
No question it's lighter and rolls better....I had wingloading flip flopped....basically the yak3 shades the 9 by close 1.5 lbs/sqf. So its got to be a bit better turner....curious by how much. That would seem to be an interesting match up. The 9 has speed and zoom and the yak-3 has sustained climb, roll and at least a bit better sustained turn.
Be curious to see which one "wins out" among the yak affectionado's...
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Same. If the Yak is dropped then I ill just forfeit as the remaining aircraft are all equally unpalatable
:cry :cry :cry
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the yak 3 is highly underrated and is arguably the very best under 20,000 feet piston engined fighter to see service in WWII. it is a monster. it's also russian, I eschew all things russian, even in cartoonland.
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I wonder if anyone else is considering the vote from the perspective of getting a new opponent to shoot down.. instead of getting a new plane to fly in?
After the first round my decisions have been based on getting new targets :)
Yup... I'll vote for P-39.
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Originally posted by duh
I don't think we have enough american planes....
This is a joke right?
US - 18 planes
Germany - 16 planes
Britain - 13 planes
Japan - 5 planes
Russia - 4 planes
Italy - 2 planes
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Originally posted by Joachim
Same. If the Yak is dropped then I ill just forfeit as the remaining aircraft are all equally unpalatable.
B-25 is at least an Alliad bomber the Bf109E, Bf110 and A6M2 can catch.
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Originally posted by Wurger
Agreed, I was just thinking the same thing. All the remaining choices will be hanger queens after the first few weeks anyway.
Time to get the HT rigged the vote in favor of what they wanted to build anyway thread going!
If that were the case the Yak3 would win, it is "almost finished" with the current yak model.
The 410 would have been a modeling nightmare, particularly the sighting of the barbettes.
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Always thought it was strange that two often requested aircraft weren't even included at the get go -
Beaufighter
Meteor
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Originally posted by Kev367th
Always thought it was strange that two often requested aircraft weren't even included at the get go -
Beaufighter
Meteor
Wouldn't matter.
The plane is going to be American unless no significant American combat plane is on the list.
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Originally posted by Karnak
B-25 is at least an Alliad bomber the Bf109E, Bf110 and A6M2 can catch.
Which means barely anyone will use it..
This was never going to be a "fair" vote.. there's no accounting for how little time some of the voting players play.
This was a vote for player favorites that would otherwise never be a priority.
If only Pyro could say whether the A26 and/or B25 were getting a 75mm... as it is, the B25 is going to be a very boring bird, the P39 a siamese cousin to the Yak9T, and the Yak3 probably another ultra light and flickable Spit16 sort of fighter...
It's kind of ironic to get to vote for some things that may not turn out to be what you intended to vote for.
I'd definitely not vote B25; it has no novelty compared to the other three. The historical gaps will be filled when HTC chooses the planes.
I'd say the Brewster really ought to be in the next official planes addition.
If the Yak3 is chosen, it would be great if HTC also did a quick Yak9UT and Yak9D or M; if those are respectively just a 9U with the T's hub 37mm, and the 9T with the 37mm replaced with standard guns.
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Originally posted by storch
the yak 3 is highly underrated and is arguably the very best under 20,000 feet piston engined fighter to see service in WWII. it is a monster. it's also russian, I eschew all things russian, even in cartoonland.
I wouldn't worry about it... The performance figures I've seen indicate that the Spitfire MK.VIII will kick its butt all over the arena.
Besides, the Yak will not make the voting cut.
My regards,
Widewing
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Originally posted by humble
the Yak-3 (production model) had the VK-105-2 {1290hp}. The Yak-9U had the VK-107A {1500 hp}. However the wingloading on the Yak-3 is marginally better (I thought it was the other way around) and it has a better initial rate of climb by a good 300ft/min+.
No question it's lighter and rolls better....I had wingloading flip flopped....basically the yak3 shades the 9 by close 1.5 lbs/sqf. So its got to be a bit better turner....curious by how much. That would seem to be an interesting match up. The 9 has speed and zoom and the yak-3 has sustained climb, roll and at least a bit better sustained turn.
Be curious to see which one "wins out" among the yak affectionado's...
For your last question being a Yak addict I'll say both :)
But we still need a 1b.
Don't quote me on this but if my memory don't betray me turn time is about 20 sec for the yak9 and about 18 yak3
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perk the yak3
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It is the performance of the VK-107 Yak-3 that people lust after. That one is post war.
The VK-105 Yak-3 that we'd get is nice, but as Widewing says, not that special.
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Hmmm...
P-39
A-26
B-25
Yak-3
If I had to pick one, I would pick the P-39. While I appreciate the communities affection for Toad's dad (pretty cool if you ask me), we need to ask ourselves what is best for this product since Pyro has basically put it up to the community.
I'm picking the P-39 because it fits so nicely into the MA/AvA/SEA as a historical fighter for the USA/Soviet Union yet can also hold its own in the MA in the hands of a skilled pilot.
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Originally posted by BlauK
I wonder if anyone else is considering the vote from the perspective of getting a new opponent to shoot down.. instead of getting a new plane to fly in?
After the first round my decisions have been based on getting new targets :)
Yup... I'll vote for P-39.
Exactly....will be fun for a week or two:)
shamus
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Next time we have a vote HTC its needs to be country wise. Next time an aircraft is going to be made have it based on the country and not random planes.
Next plane could be a selection for Japan, or Germany (I wanted that He111, COME ON THE GLASS NOSE!) Then give out about 5 or 6 selections for a new aircraft for that country. This way we don't have the majority of us Americans picking American craft cuz we all think America rocks. (Which we do :D )
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I will rather vote for one more american fighter than one more american bomber. After all, P-39 would be fun aircraft i believe.
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Originally posted by Pyro
The He 111 and Me 410 were eliminated in Round 2.
An man, this totally screws up my bracket.
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
And it faced some of the best the IJAF and IJN had to offer in the South-West Pacific and it held up pretty good.
Guadalcanal, Cactus Air Force, yep, I stand corrected.
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Originally posted by Widewing
I wouldn't worry about it... The performance figures I've seen indicate that the Spitfire MK.VIII will kick its butt all over the arena.
Two other things work against the Yak-3.
# Very short legs. To keep weight down, IIRC, they carried a lighter fuel load than the Yak-9U did. With War Arena fuel burn at 2X, this will mean a real short flight. Yak-3 was designed as an air superiority fighter over the front lines. Wasn't meant to carry the attack to the enemy's bases.
# Limited ammo. Yak's don't carry much around with them compared to many other planes in the arena. You have to be patient and develop a good target to get good with a Yak.... not spray-an-pray.
I'd rather see the P-39 over the Yak-3, for war arena use. If the P-39, hopefully it will be a Russian version, with Russian skin default, and in Russian plane set. They took over half of the P-39's built (and nearly all the P-63's).
Fav is still A-26 for perk buff ride. Dead last in my eyes is the B-25. Just does not have the performance to be used outside EW or SEA.
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what a surprise! the few planes that our planeset needed to stay interesting are gone! me410 is a real shame, would have liked to have flown it. almost all US planes left of which we have the most:rolleyes: :huh
anyhoooooo:noid
:cry
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Originally posted by Kev367th
Always thought it was strange that two often requested aircraft weren't even included at the get go -
Beaufighter
Meteor
what about a new mossie model!!!!!!
one of the good ones:aok
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Originally posted by straffo
For your last question being a Yak addict I'll say both :)
But we still need a 1b.
Don't quote me on this but if my memory don't betray me turn time is about 20 sec for the yak9 and about 18 yak3
I cant find pure turn rate on either. The 9U we have was the heaviest yak so its got to have the worst wingloading....I dont see the yak-3 being substancially better compared to its competion. I dont fly the yak alot but i'm not bad in it. To me its a pure e fighter...maybe the best in the game. I dont know that I'd give up 15 mph for a bit of turn and roll....
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Pssst P-39
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Originally posted by Simaril
<--- has new prediction tool for non-random events; "The Gianlupo Index" has 100% accuracy so far in naming the losing aircraft!
:rofl
Coming back home, today, I thought: "I'll make a post asking people to tell me what plane they want out of the contest... I'll root for it, and it'll lose!"
You beat me at that, Dave! :D
So, now, people.... what do you want me to root for? I'm accepting donations!
EDIT: Btw, look at the Round 2 exit polls thread: I voted for Yak 3 and converted to Me 410 only after! ;)
Originally posted by Blauk
I wonder if anyone else is considering the vote from the perspective of getting a new opponent to shoot down.. instead of getting a new plane to fly in?
Yes... I'd like B 25 in that perspective! :t
Originally posted by Oleg
I will rather vote for one more american fighter than one more american bomber. After all, P-39 would be fun aircraft i believe.
Well said! Even if the Yak 3 goes out at next round, a fighter's always better than a bomber![/i]
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Originally posted by BlauK
I wonder if anyone else is considering the vote from the perspective of getting a new opponent to shoot down.. instead of getting a new plane to fly in?
Thats why I was voting for the 410 all along... :)
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I've always voted for the A26, but I don't see the Mitchell as being a boring choice at all. Imagine loading up a B25H (75 mm cannon in nose) with skip bombs and attacking a CV group or a convoy (if AH ever begins to take strats seriously). Or with parafrags to NOE ruin a base! What a blast that would be! I can't think of having more fun that that! (Not on this forum anyway)
So if the A26 doesn't make it, the best choice is the Mitchell, IMHO. After that, the Yak3.
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I hope the He 111 didn't miss out by one vote. I was unable to get access to AH while I am out of town, and that's what I wanted to vote for this round. (It would be very good to have it for Battle of Britain scenarios.)
However, from the start, I figured the P-39 would win.
I won't be sad if that happens, though. It will be a good plane for special events, too, expecially as a frequently used Russian fighter that is not a Yak or La.
I'll be to have another plane in AH no matter what it is, but I'm most interested in planes that round out scenarios and that had the larger historical production.
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Hey Lupo, vote for the A-26 will ya? :D
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We Luftwaffe flyers have been asking for the He111 for as long as Iv been playing and now probably the only time we could have goten it, it just got beatin for what we all know whats going to win another american bomber like we need another one of those.:mad:
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:furious :furious
I'm not a jinx!!!!!!!! :mad:
EDIT: Larry, all of my simpathy. Nationalism apart, I think the He111 is the most noticeable gap in the planeset.
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I Just wanted to throw in my "new" avatar ;)
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Originally posted by Gianlupo
:furious :furious
I'm not a jinx!!!!!!!! :mad:
Yea you are!!! LLLLEEEETTTTSSSS get em!!!!!:D
hey 73 long time no see
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Nice avatar JB!
Larry.... :furious :D
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It doesnt surprise me the 111 went away. It would require people who liked events, or AvA, or EW to make it win. And the MA types outnumber them.
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Sigh. Guess I dont need to fix my sig for now...
Time to start voting for the B-25 and praying it gets a 75mm of some flavor, or atleast parafrags.
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I have enjoyed reading everyone's post. "Democracy at work". I want to quote the P-39 article in Wikipedia.
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The tactical environment of the Eastern Front did not demand the extreme high-altitude operations that the RAF and USAAF employed with their big bombers. In the relatively low-altitude operations in the East, the lack of a turbocharger was not as great a handicap. The low-speed, low-altitude turning nature of most air combat on the Russian Front suited the P-39's strengths rather than its inherent weaknesses. The second-highest scoring Allied ace, Pokryshkin, flew the P-39 from late 1942 until the end of the war; his unofficial score in the Airacobra stands at nearly 60 Luftwaffe aircraft.
_____________________________ _____________________________ __
The Airacobra might not be a beast, but a skilled pilot flying at low altitudes could really rake up kills. One or to hits from that 37mm cannon and there is a puff of smoke or a rabble of debris where your opponents craft used to be. In the MA especially, furballs over bases and in between create a target rich environment. I suppose we will see after it wins in the in the final vote.
Cheers...
:aok The earth is a depot where wingless angels pass the time,
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Originally posted by MotleyCH
Yup..it would be nice if they modeled the top 5.
Yea I kinda wonder the same thing... Why is it so hard to add more than one new plane to the game?
Even the top three should be very doable for the HT guys.. even if they were released on seprate dates.. why only one plane...
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Something has to be first, and HTC has a very small staff. If they were going to make 2 or 20 I'd like for them to release them when they are done rather than hold them until they ALL are done. I remember when we only had 5 or 6 planes at all.
I'm taking this and the Firefly as a sign that TOD is almost done, at least from a modeling/artwork standpoint.
EDIT: If we are talking about wish list stuff I wish they'd release an SDK or toolkit so the community could help out with the 3D modeling kinda like we can do with the skins. The FM modeling will always remain tightly locked to avoid any of the c-word though.