Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Sundowner on April 03, 2007, 07:07:07 PM
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Ok, ---did the forums search thang on "pets" and "food". No results So...
Concerning the poison pet food fiasco:
Saw a report about FDA findings on the toxin. The tainted "wheat gluten"was traced to two Chinese factories.(yup, old news)
But at the end of the report it was stated the FDA "declined" to name the Chinese company that owned the factories.
Declined?
No reason given or asked I suppose.
Wth?? So now the FDA comes right out and shows that the interests of foreign owned companies TRUMP the best interests of the American Consumer. (They used to call 'em customers, folks.)
Btw, this is an example of one of the failings of so called "free global trade".
We've outsourced our food staples, (Lot's of "wheat gluten" in foods for human consumption.) to nonUSA-regulated sources because it's cheaper to produce the stuff outside those pesky US health standards.
I'm not seeing this aspect covered by the main stream media.
Regards,
Sun
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Didn't affect me, but I had a good friend who lost an old cat because of the food. Sad thing too, the cat was pretty nice.
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Most pet food is crap.
Some of the premiums are decent and use "human grade" ingredients. They leave out the beaks, feet and feathers and use boned USDA approved chicken for example.
You need to read the labels.
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US needs to stop importing everything and go back to making what it needs.
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Originally posted by Toad
Most pet food is crap.
Some of the premiums are decent and use "human grade" ingredients. They leave out the beaks, feet and feathers and use boned USDA approved chicken for example.
You need to read the labels.
We feed our cats canned tuna (just buy the big can) and store brand sliced turkey. Costs $4 a week instead of $3 a week.
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Originally posted by Meatwad
US needs to stop importing everything and go back to making what it needs.
And the US citizens need to enroll in basic economic classes.
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Yep, our government has been bought and sold to China.
Woodrow Wilson, 1919 in his memoirs
"I am a most unhappy man.
I have unwittingly ruined my country.
A great industrial nation is now controlled by its system of credit.
We are no longer a government of free opinion, no longer a government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a government by the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men."
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Originally posted by Xargos
Yep, our government has been bought and sold to China.
Woodrow Wilson, 1919 in his memoirs
"I am a most unhappy man.
I have unwittingly ruined my country.
A great industrial nation is now controlled by its system of credit.
We are no longer a government of free opinion, no longer a government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a government by the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men."
It seems so, Xargos.
I just thought that was an obscenely cavalier attitude that they "declined" to divulge critical info to their "masters" (They are, after all, public servants.) in deference to a foreign company's interest.
Regards,
Sun
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Even the premium lables were affected by this. IAMS and Science Diet, both had recalls.
kamilkun, if you only feed your cats tuna, you are killing them. Toulene(sp?) is needed by cats for proper vision. Without it, they will die prematurely. It can only be found in red meat. Just FYI.
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why not feed your cats rodents and lizards?
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Skuzzy, I hate to sound like a pet food snob but I don't think Hill's Science Diet or Eukanuba/Iams (same company) are premium foods.
Hill's Science Diet is a subsidiary of Colgate-Palmolive. Iams/Eukanuba is owned by Proctor & Gamble.
As far as I can see, none of the Eukanuba/Iams or Science Diet recipes are "human quality" foods.
Also, Eukanuba/Iams had serious problems not long ago with Ethoxyquin, a preservative they use. This stuff is bad ju-ju for a lot of dogs
Ethoxyquin has been the most debated preservative used in dog food. Since it was first added to dog foods, many breeders and pet owners have told stories of sterility and decreased fertility; deformed puppies; periodontal disease; precancerous lesions of the liver, kidney and bladder; vaccine failure; and increased incidence of cataracts.
Ethoxyquin was originally approved by the FDA as a grain preservative intended for animals raised to be killed for food, and it was to be used no longer than 2 years. The safety of feeding it to dogs who live 10 to 12 years has never been proven, and the original studies run by the company who manufactured ethoxyquin were seriously flawed.
Other countries have conducted studies on ethoxyquin and found it to be unsafe for long-term use in dog food. There is now a petition before the FDA to withdraw its use from the dog food market. Although ethoxyquin is still used as preservatives in some foods, the trend today is for more foods to be naturally preserved. It seems as if the marketplace is responding to dog owner's needs.
Again, it pays to do a LOT of research on what you are feeding. I think there are far better foods than Eukanuba/Iams or Science Diet and they really don't cost any more or at least not significantly more. Maybe a few dollars a month.
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Originally posted by Toad
Most pet food is crap.
Some of the premiums are decent and use "human grade" ingredients. They leave out the beaks, feet and feathers and use boned USDA approved chicken for example.
You need to read the labels.
I asked my Dog. He likes the beaks and feathers thank you very much.
-Sik
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Okey-dokey Toad. Sounds like we are talking more semantics than anything else. Iams and Science Diet are both a better cut than many other brands, if only for the lack of sugar they put in thier food.
For hard food, I prefer to use Grand Cayman(sp?) for my cat. Soft food, she gets 1/4 of a small can of IAMS daily.
What soft food do you like for your animals Toad?
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Yes, I know when we used to have real cats, they would try to eat everything they caught, they didnt care if the part they were eating was breast meat:)
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Originally posted by Sundowner
the failings of so called "free global trade"
The little crazy guy from Texas with the big ears was right.
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
kamilkun, if you only feed your cats tuna, you are killing them. Toulene(sp?) is needed by cats for proper vision. Without it, they will die prematurely.
It's taurine. Tuna fish actually has a decent amount of taurine, but that's the least of your cat's problems if they're eating an all tuna diet. It's deficient in calcium, other minerals, several vitamins and several essential fatty acids. It's really a very poor diet for cats.
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Thank you for the correction myelo. I had not had my coffee. However, I thought taurine was only available in red meat. Thanks again.
What was I thinking? Isn't toulene some type of industrial strength petroleum chemical used when acetone is not strong enough? Yeah, feed that to your cat and other problems would ensue. OY!
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There is no valid scientific evidence that ethoxyquin in levels used in pet foods are associated with any health problems (I'd be happy to get into the details of all this if anyone is interested). But In the US it's pretty much a moot point since ethoxyquin has been replaced with BHA/BHT or mixed tocopherols in most pet foods because of the bad publicity.
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
However, I thought taurine was only available in red meat.
It's also in a lot of fish and shellfish. In fact, back when dilated cardiomyopathy in cats on taurine deficient diet was first recognized, clam juice was often suggested as a taurine supplement to feed to cats (although it's actually not a very good one).
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There seems to be a mixup in the facts or your source, Sundowner. The FDA released the name of the Chinese company that producd it (Xuzhou Anying Biological Technology of Peixian, China), but refused to release the name of the US distributor.
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lol.... vets tell you not to feed your dog table scraps... my opinion is they don't want your dog to be too healthy as then the vet is not needed as much. My dogs eat different types of dog food never the same.... and the occasional wild anmal that roams inside the fence, including feral cats from the surrounding pastures.
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Well, for the last few years i have given my pets an ALL natural diet. My butcher sets aside meat for several of his customers to buy specifically for our dogs and even cats. i make their meals daily before mine. My rotty gets copius amounts of meat, chicken some veggies and fiber. The cats <3 of em> i mix it up cause welll...they are cats and finicky lil biotches normally they get tuna, chicken, lil milk on the side and all the mice, lizards and birds they can catch....wich is actually alot if you go by the amount of "gifts" they leave me.
As for Rocky < the rotty> he weighs in at an impressive 145lbs. I have several neighbors that got pups from the same litter. Only 1 feeds his like I do mine and His rotty weighs 152lbs the others are roughly half that to 100lbs .
My dog is extremely active and full of piss and viniger.
Even my vet recommends an all natural diet as opposed to store bought wether its average or even "premium" food.
i garuntee you that if you have a dog or cat and you take the time to fix em up REAL natural food you willl see a HUGE difference pretty damn fast.
Oh and as for being worth it, Rocky is my best freind and the cats...well they have there moments.
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
What soft food do you like for your animals Toad?
None! :)
I feed dry exclusively as I have better luck keeping their teeth pearly white. My labs have literally no tooth buildup; I attribute this to dry food, steamed beef bones to chew on and the occasional leather chew.
As for premium vs premium...
I'm feeding this right now - Natural Balance; all ingredients meet USDA standards for human consumption.
Brown Rice, Chicken, Duck Meal, Lamb Meal, Oatmeal, Barley, Potatoes, Carrots, Potato Fiber, Chicken Meal, Chicken Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), Natural Flavor, Brewers Yeast, Fish Meal, Salmon Oil, Lecithin, Whole Ground Flaxseed, Potassium Chloride, Choline Chloride, Inulin, Taurine, Spinach, Parsley Flakes, Cranberry, Lysine, L-Carnitine, Yucca, Kelp, Vitamin E Supplement, Iron Proteinate, Zinc Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Potassium Iodide, Thiamine Mononitrate (Vitamin B-1), Manganese Proteinate, Manganous Oxide, Ascorbic Acid, Vitamin A Supplement, Biotin, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Manganese Sulfate, Sodium Selenite, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B-6), Vitamin B-12 Supplement, Riboflavin (Vitamin B-2), Vitamin D Supplement, Folic Acid (Vitamin B).
Science Diet in the comparable ration:
Ground Whole Grain Corn, Chicken By-Product Meal, Animal Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), Soybean Mill Run, Flaxseed, Chicken Liver Flavor, Dried Egg Product, Potassium Chloride, Dried Chicken Cartilage, Choline Chloride, Vitamin E Supplement, vitamins (L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin A Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin, Folic Acid, Vitamin D3 Supplement), Iodized Salt, Taurine, L-Lysine, L-Tryptophan, minerals (Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite), L-carnitine, DL-methionine, Dicalcium Phosphate, preserved with Mixed Tocopherols and Citric Acid, L-Arginine, Beta-Carotene, Rosemary Extract.
For example: The Chicken in Natural Balance is: Chicken: the clean combination of flesh and skin with or without accompanying bone, derived from the parts or whole carcasses of chicken or a combination thereof, exclusive of feathers, heads, feet and entrails.
The Science Diet Chicken By-Product Meal consists of the ground, rendered, clean parts of the carcass of slaughtered chicken, such as necks, feet, undeveloped eggs and intestines, exclusive of feathers, except in such amounts as might occur unavoidable in good processing practice
If you want to decipher a label, go
Here (http://iml.jou.ufl.edu/projects/Spring04/Perhach/PetFood/Ingredients.htm)
There are decent foods out there but you have to read the labels just as you do with everything else.
Even with that, I'm thinking of switching to making my own ration for the dogs.
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Does Lyndon LaRouche have anything to say about this? It sounds like he should.
-Sik
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You guys are serious about your pets, not that there is anything wrong with that.
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Originally posted by Xargos
You guys are serious about your pets, not that there is anything wrong with that.
The better you care for them, the better they taste when it's time to harvest.
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Toad, I have to feed my cat some soft food. She has a small liver issue and if she gets too much protein it will kill her. We almost lost her once before we knew about the problem. Up to the time we rushed her to the vet, she had nothing but hard food. I felt the same way as you. Keeps the teeth clean.
Soft food has absolutely no protein in it, but still has vitamins and minerals she needs. So I feed her a small portion each day to keep her from eating too much hard food. She is on a very strict diet of very specific portions.
We went with Grand Cayman as they have a wide variety of hard food with varying levels of protein in them. Our cat will not touch "Science Diet" dry food. The vet had subscribed some food which our cat almost starved herself to death as she would not touch it. Once we found the Grand Cayman, the vet signed off on it and the cat has been a happy camper with it. Picky little feline.
Originally posted by Xargos
You guys are serious about your pets, not that there is anything wrong with that.
They are part of the family.
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Originally posted by Trell
Yes, I know when we used to have real cats, they would try to eat everything they caught, they didnt care if the part they were eating was breast meat:)
the cats around here don't get fed by us they hang around just the same. they usually eat the lizard's and mice's heads and that's about it.
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
They are part of the family. [/B]
Fortunately, Mr. President is the part of the family that will eat anything. Damn dog ate a bag of rocks I left out back last week. A BAG OF ROCKS.
admittedly, he didn't eat the rocks, just the bag... but still)
-Sik
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My sister and here husband lost their 7 year old cat to this whole fiasco, they were in fact on the local news after I told them about the food recall. they went to the vet to discuss it, and it is most definitely the cause.
just a dang shame, as Skuzzy said the pets are part of the family.
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Thanks Toad for the tip , my cat will love it I bet :)
http://www.naturalbalanceinc.com/catformulas/UltCat.html#Ingredients
I looked it up and they sell it 8 miles away in Alma :)
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Originally posted by myelo
It's taurine. Tuna fish actually has a decent amount of taurine, but that's the least of your cat's problems if they're eating an all tuna diet. It's deficient in calcium, other minerals, several vitamins and several essential fatty acids. It's really a very poor diet for cats.
Not all tuna, I get sliced turkey and ham as well. It's all my older cat will eat. She has a "terminal" kidney problem and so pretty much whatever she wants to eat, she gets. That said, she's lasted several months, but with us injecting extra fluid to help her kidneys out.
Would the tuna, turkey, ham work well for a younger cat (supplemented with dry food)? Don't want to cause problems for our 2nd cat.
They just go crazy over that stuff. Figured if that's what they want...
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Originally posted by Rolex
There seems to be a mixup in the facts or your source, Sundowner. The FDA released the name of the Chinese company that producd it (Xuzhou Anying Biological Technology of Peixian, China), but refused to release the name of the US distributor.
Thx for the heads-up Rolex-san:)
Checking the links...
Sun
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Originally posted by storch
the cats around here don't get fed by us they hang around just the same. they usually eat the lizard's and mice's heads and that's about it.
That's one thing I never quite understood about cats. Why do they eat the head and give us the bodies? They heads can't possibly be tasty / enjoyable to eat.
Plus they know our habits of mounting heads...
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Originally posted by Sundowner
Thx for the heads-up Rolex-san:)
Checking the links...
Sun
Ahh.. saw it wasn't a hyper-link after all.
Regardless, this is interesting news, Rolex.
Did a little digging and found this interesting article with pertinent press releases and .gov announcements. (Yes it's a blog..but the links make it viable.)
"..........The FDA announced today that it has traced the contaminated wheat gluten to a single processor, Xuzhou Anying Biological Technology of Peixian, China, but has not released the name of the U.S. distributor who supplied the product to Del Monte, Menu Foods, Nestle Purina, and Hills Nutritional. In all, more than 70 brands and over 60 million cans and pouches of dog and cat food are now part of this massive recall, as well as at least one brand of dry cat food.
Public statements have indicated that the contaminated gluten was distributed by a single U.S. company, but since the FDA refuses to name the supplier, it is not yet known if this company also supplies human food manufacturers. It is also not yet known if Xuzhou Anying sells direct to food manufacturers in the U.S. or abroad......"
http://www.horsesass.org/?p=2749
Looks like until the FDA decides to reveal the US distributer it may be prudent to check the human food labels for "wheat gluten" and pass on 'em for awhile.
Hell, it's probably in everything we eat...doh!
Arigato, Rolex.
Sun
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My cat is about to die from kidney failure. Protein is the enemy now. She came home from the vet tonight and refuses to eat. She is so weak she cant do much more than drink a little water and then pee where she is sitting. The vet wants to wait three days before trying an IV feed. She seems too weak to make it that long. Shes twelve and most of my cats have gone twenty years so this caught me by surprise. Shes been a good pet. Pets are like kids you have to watch out but unlike kids they cant tell you where it hurts.
She hasnt eaten any of the recalled brands her entire life and I still feel like I let her down.
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Originally posted by Chalenge
My cat is about to die from kidney failure. Protein is the enemy now. She came home from the vet tonight and refuses to eat. She is so weak she cant do much more than drink a little water and then pee where she is sitting. The vet wants to wait three days before trying an IV feed. She seems too weak to make it that long. Shes twelve and most of my cats have gone twenty years so this caught me by surprise. Shes been a good pet. Pets are like kids you have to watch out but unlike kids they cant tell you where it hurts.
She hasnt eaten any of the recalled brands her entire life and I still feel like I let her down.
Wish you and your friend the best, Chalenge.
Regards,
Sun
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I tried to extend the life of a truly exceptional chocolate Labrador when his kidneys were failing. We did the IV thing, we did anything they suggested. I spent lots and lots of bucks.
What I think I actually accomplished was to extend his agony and increase my own. When he finally died, I was a miserable as I could be despite knowing I "did all I could".
When it's time, it's time. Pray that someone will have mercy on you when it's your time and that they don't try to extend your misery.
Still a subject that bothers me... sorry if I offended but that's my take on it.
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Interestingly enough, that chocolate Lab had lived on Eukanuba. He got sick a couple of years after Proctor and Gamble bought Euk and changed the formula to include ethoxyquin.
Coincidence? Maybe. But after that I read a lot about Euk and ethoxyquin and the reported problems.
That's when I really started searching for better feeds.
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Sorry to hear that Chalenge. They do get under yer skin. That is for sure.
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Thankfully my guys like the ghetto food I buy em....MeowMix for dry food and a scoop of 9-Lives in the morning. I remember when they were kittens, I was going to feed them that "better" stuff....and I fed it to them...and they wouldnt touch it. So, they like what they like.
Skuzzy: One of my guys is prone to UTI's, he seems to have a fussy bladder. Thus the wet food scoop in the AM and PM. Not bad, with 2 cats, I go thru one can a day.
I really feel for those of you with sick pets. I never thought Id be a cat guy but these tards have a way of prying a spot in your heart.
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Originally posted by kamilyun
Would the tuna, turkey, ham work well for a younger cat (supplemented with dry food)? Don't want to cause problems for our 2nd cat.
They just go crazy over that stuff. Figured if that's what they want...
An all-meat diet is not a balanced diet for cats. The calcium:phosphorous ratio is way off, there aren't enough carbohydrates, potassium is too low, it's deficient in certain vitamins and depending on how much fat is in the meat, fatty acids may be insufficient. You didn't mention if this was cooked, but just in case, raw fish is bad for cats because it contains an enzyme that destroys thiamine and can lead to thiamine deficiency.
If you supplement with enough good quality dry food you can correct a lot of that. The problem with this approach is some cats will get where they only eat the meat and won't eat the other food.
In general, you're better off feeding a balanced diet instead of trying to fix an unbalanced diet with supplements.
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myelo how do feral cats survive? is their diet providing the necessary nutrients? the cats here eat whatever they can catch. we're on a lake that feeds directly from the everglades. I've seen them eating fish, lizards, mice and birds. the fish are partially consumed usually the viscera and the heads, the mice and lizards usually just the head. the birds are completely consumed. these cats live about five to six years on the average. I suspect they may be suffering from feline leukemia and they are also subject to predation. I think the bobcats occassional eat them.
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Myelo, you seem to be pretty up on this small animal stuff. Are you a vet? If so, I'll probably try to pick your brain about some things. Always good to get a second opinion!
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My cat eats mice, rats, birds and rabbits, sometimes she leaves the head, feathers, feet or stomach.
About two months ago, my sister lost an older mini pin to kidney failure. She has another small dog that is only half a year old and suffered no problems.
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Originally posted by storch
myelo how do feral cats survive? is their diet providing the necessary nutrients?
Yes, cats are strict carnivores (dogs are really omnivores). Feral cats eat mostly rodents, but also young rabbits, birds, reptiles, frogs and insects. But realize eating prey is not just eating meat -- they eat the organs, bones, and ingested plant material in the stomach and intestines. These contain certain vitamins, minerals, and fatty acids that are not found in the muscle tissue (meat).
That's why a meat only diet is insufficient for cats.
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I feed my dog a little chicken and rice for breakfast and dry IAMS later in the day for the fiber, vitamins and minerals. I don't think he cares if the IAMS has ground up beaks or feathers in it. I suspect he would eat those in the wild :)
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Yeah, he would eat beaks and feathers. And he'd bascially crap them out the other end as they are not easily digestible proteins. Probably good as "fiber" though.
That's why you see stool volume go way up with low quality foods and go way down with high quality foods.
If you want a backyard full of dog crap, feed WalMart's Ol' Roy.
Another thing I have found is that it is easy to maintain a dog's weight with less food on a high quality feed. The short story is that although a high quality feed costs more, you feed less of it to maintain weight so in the end you spend less per day feeding your dog.
And less time cleaning the backyard. ;)
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This story refuses to die....
First pet food...then human consumption swine....then human consumption chickens..now human consumption fish.
I guess the secret is out that the FDA can't regulate cheap foodstuffs shipped in from abroad.
Excuse me if I seem cynical but bloated, ineffectual government agencies struggling to put a pretty spin on an ugly situation makes me a little queasy.
Regards,
Sun
http://www.cnn.com/2007/HEALTH/05/08/fish.food/index.html
Officials: Fish pose no 'significant' danger
Acheson, who would not divulge what states the meal was sent to, said there is no reason for alarm.
"We do not believe that there is any significant risk associated with consuming these fish," he said.
Acheson added that investigators are traveling to the companies "to determine exactly what they are doing with the fish."
The discovery of the contaminated imports from China was announced Tuesday after analysis of the products showed they had been mislabeled, Acheson said.
The FDA is "considering possible enforcement actions," he said.
Agency investigators are expected to return to the U.S. next week from China, he said. He would not say what they have found..........
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My puppy eats Natural Balance like Toad's. He seems to really like the Duck & Potato recipe.
If it's not Natural Balance, then I just make it myself. Ground beef or turkey, minced veggies, minced fruit, rice, and a vitamin supplement. Yogurt or egg is mixed in a few times a week. It's just hard to get him on this diet because it's low in fat. Dogs love fat... it's sprayed on dry food to get them to eat it.
I went back to Natural Balance just for the convenience.
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The scary part is I heard that in Germany today, human food ingredients cost on average 30% less than pet food.
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Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
The scary part is I heard that in Germany today, human food ingredients cost on average 30% less than pet food.
Wow.
Interesting.
The bigger these guys' profit margins get, perhaps the more dangerous the product (food) becomes.
Regards,
Sun