Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: SkyRock on April 03, 2007, 09:15:50 PM
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F4U-1
:t
P.S. I really am tired of all the other threads about which new sucky plane will be next! I think we as a community need to get back to our regularly scheduled arguments! I will vote for the B-25 just for Toad's dad to maybe fly cover for them. :aok
Mark
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go Blue;)
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Spit-XVI :P
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F4U-1... But this always was a nice matchup in the MA.
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does it matter which is better? this is a loaded question....everyone knows what matters is the pilot.
besides...the K4 owns both of them. :aok :t
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psssst please we all know the the D11-O-Death owns everything:D
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I belive this thread is a poke at me. :)
SkyRock and I went to the DA last night to duke it out in F4U-1 (him) and Lala (me). The argument was which was the best MA fighter; obviously a duel won't tell us that, but nevertheless we went at it. After each had augered once I got him in a rope, then he got me twice in turn fights. As was expected the best turner made the best dueling plane (and SkyRock “insisted” using the Lala’s superior performance in the vertical was timid and dweebish ;))... and I never was much of a duelist anyways.
The Lala is still the better MA fighter because any rookie can jump in one and get kills, and even survive if he's lucky. The F4U needs a more experienced pilot to be successful in a multi-plane environment like the MA, and an experienced pilot in the Lala can be almost untouchable and rack up incredible numbers of kills.
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/1022_1157675034_viking-la7.jpg)
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/1022_1157675057_viking-la7-kills.jpg)
But alas … killing (or rather murdering in absolute safety) in the Lala gets boring after a while, so now I’m killing in the 110G instead and enjoying every minute of it! :)
SkyRock. Fun fights!
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La7 ownz skybrick
that said Me163 is the best.
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F4U-4, as stated many times, is the best prop driven plane in the game.
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It's perked. Of the perked prop rides many will argue the Tempest is the best for Arena fights.
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I fly the F4U-1 a lot. I have hardly ever flown the La-7, but I have flown against them a lot, of course. I think the La-7 is perhaps the better plane for Main Arena conditions. It's faster, climbs better, rolls well, has good firepower, turns well (although it can't match the low turn radius of an F4U-1 when the F4U-1's flaps are deployed), and can dictate the fight then disengage if things are going poorly.
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The Tempest and Typhoon, currently nerfed by the screw up in the trim tables, will beat the F4U-4 hands down or when flown by somebody who knows what they're dealing with, I'll admit.
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Originally posted by Viking
I belive this thread is a poke at me. :)
SkyRock and I went to the DA last night to duke it out in F4U-1 (him) and Lala (me). The argument was which was the best MA fighter; obviously a duel won't tell us that, but nevertheless we went at it. After each had augered once I got him in a rope, then he got me twice in turn fights. As was expected the best turner made the best dueling plane (and SkyRock “insisted” using the Lala’s superior performance in the vertical was timid and dweebish ;))... and I never was much of a duelist anyways.
SkyRock. Fun fights!
And here's the rest of the story.....
He extended zoom climbed after every merge, 1st I get overshoot get on his 6 and he augers. 2nd I get overshoot get on his 6 and accidentally hit a magically appearing tree as I pull trigger. 3rd I get over shoot get on his 6 in vert and go to kill him and no hits( conv set to 200 gahhh!) so he falls down on me and kils me(rope). 3rd I get him to overshoot and get on his 6 and kill him. 4th I go vert with him(after setting conv to 500) and blast him out of sky! 5th I get on his 6 and kill him.
By the way, I am not trying to poke fun of you viking, I enjoyed the fights even with the disco and invisible trees! hee hee I thought you flew the fights well and I thank you for them. I was just tired of reading arguments about what planes should be in the set, when most don't even know how to fly the ones we have! I do believe I proved that the la7 is limited against the f4u, without cannons it would be worthless except for running! If you look at how I fare against la7's in my 1-hog, maybe one out of every tour is someone who gets me to go for the rope, other than that,all the kills that la7's get on me are ganger dweebs jumping into an already 1 vs multi! I rarely ever loose to an la7 in a 1 vs 1 no matter what plane I am flying. They are just to limited in what they can do!
viking!
Mark
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Originally posted by OOZ662
The Tempest and Typhoon, currently nerfed by the screw up in the trim tables, will beat the F4U-4 hands down or when flown by somebody who knows what they're dealing with, I'll admit.
You are off your rocker! LMAO! THe f4u-4 is the absolute hands down best prop fighter in AH2. It will eat a tiff or tempests' lunch with hardly any effort!:aok
Mark
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Originally posted by SkyRock
You are off your rocker! LMAO! THe f4u-4 is the absolute hands down best prop fighter in AH2. It will eat a tiff or tempests' lunch with hardly any effort!:aok
I go purely by numbers (http://www.gonzoville.com/ahcharts/index.php?p1=f4u4&p2=temp) on this one, as I don't fly either of them. On paper, the Tempest is generally better.
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Originally posted by OOZ662
I go purely by numbers (http://www.gonzoville.com/ahcharts/index.php?p1=f4u4&p2=temp) on this one, as I don't fly either of them. On paper, the Tempest is generally better.
It lacks the manuverability at high and low speeds to beat the f4u-4. Hog4 would outroll it easily. Add in the flaps and it is unbeatable!:aok
Mark
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CoAlt, yes. The Temp gets his alt and keeps it, the hog can only try and sucker him into turning.
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Try throwing the LA-7 into that mix.
Then consider that the LA is unperked.
Would'nt that make the LA the best prop fighter in the game???
(As much as I hate to say it....)
EDIT: on the deck, anyway. The way to beat a lala is to take the fight high, above 20k they're easy meat.
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Well, once again going by the paper (http://www.gonzoville.com/ahcharts/index.php?p1=f4u4&p2=temp&p3=la7) since I don't fly them, besides one sweet spot in altitude, the LA7 is equal to or worse than the other fighters.
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Originally posted by Viking
It's perked. Of the perked prop rides many will argue the Tempest is the best for Arena fights.
Anyone interested in a "come to Jesus" experience, grab their Tempest meet my F4U-4 in the TA Tuesday thru Thursday evenings. 1v1, the Tempest can't handle the F4U-4. In the MA, the Tempest can run. In a duel, it must stay and fight.
My regards,
Widewing
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DanoDano (whom I discovered lives in the same town I do) ripped apart most of our squad in an F4U-4 over the course of about 20 minutes in a fight, VF-31 vs the rest of the DA.
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Originally posted by SkyRock
By the way, I am not trying to poke fun of you viking
Mark [/B]
How modest in a post you so minutely describes how you allegedly beat
someone so easily, save for some very common standard excuses about
trees and discoes...
Anyone can suck on this since youre not alone. There are a lot of prima donnas playing this game and Im getting soo sick and tired of hearing this chest beating rants over and over again. Like its some sort of therapy for building up or strengthening self confidence.
bah!
im out
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Between the two: F4U-1A but I've only flown an LA-7 once and it was so long ago I can't remember it (I have flown the LA-5 a bit recently though so I assume they're at least similar).
Short Temp story; Last night I was up in one. I had been doing pretty well in it recently (15-16 kills and 1 death one night on repeated sorties plus several recent 4-5 kill flights) in only my second or third month of trying it or the Typhoon out. I was at 18K climbing when 4 F4U-4's and P-51B's bounced me from ~21-23K. I leveled, dropped tanks then dove WEP on. The first F4U overshot but one of the P-51's saddled up and there was no way I could outrun him or outturn him. End of story.
Temps and Typhs are good planes but you still can't get into a bad situation with them or you'll die and down low the Temp isn't that much better than a Typh.
Best perk plane in the arenas: ME163B
Best non-perked plane: Spit XVI
My best plane: FW190-A8
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Boy I just gotta jump in here.
Pound for pound...Typh, tempest or LA7..I'm sorry, but I have eaten them like candy in a F4U1D! I spend quite a bit of time in Hogs and those who know..know that the Dhog is the Red headed step child of the Hog family in AH.
What I am saying is..If I can slap around the average Typh, Temp, LaLa driver using a Dhog, imasgine what I am gonna do to you if I am flying a 1A ...or COD FORBID...A F4U4!....*shudder*...The Horror, the Horror!
;)
RTR
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La7's are for eunichs, until they graduate to the 262
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LA7.
It can kill more opponents, quicker than the F4U-1.
However, i think that the F4U is better in a 1 vs 1 situation.
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Bah.
Eunochs are those who rely on 50cals and Hizookas.
Real men use MG151 and MK108.
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Originally posted by SkyRock
And here's the rest of the story.....
He extended zoom climbed after every merge, 1st I get overshoot get on his 6 and he augers. 2nd I get overshoot get on his 6 and accidentally hit a magically appearing tree as I pull trigger. 3rd I get over shoot get on his 6 in vert and go to kill him and no hits( conv set to 200 gahhh!) so he falls down on me and kils me(rope). 3rd I get him to overshoot and get on his 6 and kill him. 4th I go vert with him(after setting conv to 500) and blast him out of sky! 5th I get on his 6 and kill him.
By the way, I am not trying to poke fun of you viking, I enjoyed the fights even with the disco and invisible trees! hee hee I thought you flew the fights well and I thank you for them. I was just tired of reading arguments about what planes should be in the set, when most don't even know how to fly the ones we have! I do believe I proved that the la7 is limited against the f4u, without cannons it would be worthless except for running! If you look at how I fare against la7's in my 1-hog, maybe one out of every tour is someone who gets me to go for the rope, other than that,all the kills that la7's get on me are ganger dweebs jumping into an already 1 vs multi! I rarely ever loose to an la7 in a 1 vs 1 no matter what plane I am flying. They are just to limited in what they can do!
viking!
Mark
Translation:
Originally posted by SkyRock
*slap slap slap slap slap smack slap punt slap*
YOU SUCK I PWNED YOU!
salute viking
Mark
:D
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I flew a U-4 tonight for kicks, to see what the fuss was about. It did fairly rocketh.
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Btw, F4U-1A can, does and WILL zoom on the La-7. I've left more than a few ElGay's choking on my dust, and ran down quite a few (who were ESCAPING in level flight) by entering the zoom. Whether or not the -1 can do the same, with its greater climb the -4 is a lock.
If I'm popped by an La-7 more often than not it's from either being picked while dealing with another con or mobbed (like, say, the SEVEN SPIT XVIs AND ELGAYS--by ACTUAL count--that gang-raped me after the rest of my friendlies bugged out the other night :p )
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It really doesnt seem to matter whats best. It all comes down to the pilot. If you can make the other guy fight your fight, you will win most times. I have killed many F4U's( all varients) and La7's in Hurri's, A6M's, F4U's, N1k's, and Ki84's. Its all about getting the other guy to mess up. If Im in an A6M and I can get you into a turn fight, I will win the biggest percentage of time.
Pilot skill is the key, not the Plane you fly.
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Originally posted by JensK
How modest in a post you so minutely describes how you allegedly beat
someone so easily, save for some very common standard excuses about
trees and discoes...
Anyone can suck on this since youre not alone. There are a lot of prima donnas playing this game and Im getting soo sick and tired of hearing this chest beating rants over and over again. Like its some sort of therapy for building up or strengthening self confidence.
bah!
im out
I was just giving the perspective, sorry you can't handle it! He said after we both augered, which was unclearly stated, those two where he augered and I hit a tree, I was 400 out his 6 and about to kill him! doesn't sound like chest thumping to me! We had fun, there was no ill feelings, we were testing a theory abouthog's and la7's and I thought it went pretty good! Now, if you want to call it excuses, go ahead, it still won'tchange what happened or how it happened! I saluted viking and thanked him for the fights, I guess that doesn't meet your standards for showing respect!
Mark
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Ive always said its the pilot not the plane. And that usually holds true to a point. When you have 2 good pilots, the plane is usually the deciding factor.
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Originally posted by B@tfinkV
Translation:
:D
LMAO! I was just retorting to the opening statement by him, "after we both augered" which was misleading, but your account of my post is much more funny!:rofl :aok
Mark
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Originally posted by FiLtH
Ive always said its the pilot not the plane. And that usually holds true to a point. When you have 2 good pilots, the plane is usually the deciding factor.
Actually, I believe that it's the pilot not the plane as well, I was just tired of reading G55 and ME410 threads!:D
Mark
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I think I'm goin to the TA w/ Widewing......
I need a steady ride,.......
:)
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Originally posted by Husky01
psssst please we all know the the D11-O-Death owns everything:D
Aye! fear the spitbolt!
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Originally posted by SkyRock
And here's the rest of the story.....
He extended zoom climbed after every merge, 1st I get overshoot get on his 6 and he augers. 2nd I get overshoot get on his 6 and accidentally hit a magically appearing tree as I pull trigger. 3rd I get over shoot get on his 6 in vert and go to kill him and no hits( conv set to 200 gahhh!) so he falls down on me and kils me(rope). 3rd I get him to overshoot and get on his 6 and kill him. 4th I go vert with him(after setting conv to 500) and blast him out of sky! 5th I get on his 6 and kill him.
Not wanting to rain on your parade SkyRock, but you flew well enough that score padding shouldn’t be necessary ;) We only had five fights, two ending in augers, one victory for me (first blood btw :D), and two victories for you. You beat me 2 out of 3, you should be content with that! :)
Originally posted by SkyRock
I was just giving the perspective, sorry you can't handle it! He said after we both augered, which was unclearly stated…
As for the auguring story I smell a little bruised ego. In the first fight I made the mistake of doing a split-s at too low altitude, turning my expensive government machine in to a fancy lawn ornament. In the second fight, after my miserably executed B & Znore gun pass, you made the mistake of trying to squeeze out that last mph out of your altitude, trying to get a parting shot as I pulled away, and wrapped your purdy blue plane around a tree. We both F’ed up and paid the price.
Originally posted by Widewing
Anyone interested in a "come to Jesus" experience, grab their Tempest meet my F4U-4 in the TA Tuesday thru Thursday evenings. 1v1, the Tempest can't handle the F4U-4. In the MA, the Tempest can run. In a duel, it must stay and fight.
The question was the best prop fighter in the game, not the best prop jousting plane. In duels you are not allowed to use the advantages of speed since that would effectively turn the fight into a series of HO merges. And since “running” isn’t legal either (at least by ladder rules) the turn fighters are the best jousting planes.
In a 1 on 1 duel I’d imagine the A6M being better than the F4U-1. It has superior or equal climb at all altitudes, superior low-speed acceleration and (vastly) superior turning circle on the F4U. The only advantage the F4U-1 has is speed … which it can’t use in a duel.
Of course, none of this has any relevance to either real life combat or MA combat.
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K4 owns all prop planes....Ive solved the mystery for you all, now move on with your lives. :aok
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Originally posted by killnu
K4 owns all prop planes....Ive solved the mystery for you all, now move on with your lives. :aok
Can you teach me this, a small lesson or two in DA/TA? Just telling me what I'm doing horribly wrong on vox is all I really need for instruction.
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La-5 RULES :D
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vote A 26...
opps wrong thread
lol
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Originally posted by killnu
K4 owns all prop planes....Ive solved the mystery for you all, now move on with your lives. :aok
With an Experten at the controls that is very true. However, very few have the skill and patience to fly the Kurfurst successfully. Between 7k and 25k the 109K is the fastest prop plane and best climber in the game, bar none.
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Originally posted by Viking
Not wanting to rain on your parade SkyRock, but you flew well enough that score padding shouldn’t be necessary ;) We only had five fights, two ending in augers, one victory for me (first blood btw :D), and two victories for you. You beat me 2 out of 3, you should be content with that! :)
As for the auguring story I smell a little bruised ego. In the first fight I made the mistake of doing a split-s at too low altitude, turning my expensive government machine in to a fancy lawn ornament. In the second fight, after my miserably executed B & Znore gun pass, you made the mistake of trying to squeeze out that last mph out of your altitude, trying to get a parting shot as I pulled away, and wrapped your purdy blue plane around a tree. We both F’ed up and paid the price.
The question was the best prop fighter in the game, not the best prop jousting plane. In duels you are not allowed to use the advantages of speed since that would effectively turn the fight into a series of HO merges. And since “running” isn’t legal either (at least by ladder rules) the turn fighters are the best jousting planes.
In a 1 on 1 duel I’d imagine the A6M being better than the F4U-1. It has superior or equal climb at all altitudes, superior low-speed acceleration and (vastly) superior turning circle on the F4U. The only advantage the F4U-1 has is speed … which it can’t use in a duel.
Of course, none of this has any relevance to either real life combat or MA combat.
I am just telling it the way the film shows it. You claim first blood, which is lame and funny in the same breath. You are twisting the facts way out of line. Manipulating what really happened. I have 6 films, first U augered into the ground with me 300 out ur six and you being completely ownt!. the second I hit a tree lining up a shot from 400 out on your 6 where again you were attempting to run after being ownt! . the third I went for a 400 out shot and missed u get the rope on me. the 4th you go for rope again I get you 400 out. the 5th u actually turn fight and it ends quick with me coming around and over on you in complet3e ownage. the 6th YOu go for a spiral rope and I cut the angle and get you totally ownt. Now you can belittle the ownage all you want, but it was very evident what was happening. At no time did you ever get my 6, unless you call the bnz getting my 6! lol You got one kill on me from shooting and that was the rope. I don't care about an ego near as much as I care about being honest about what happened. You are the one who came in here and manipulated what really happened to make it sound like it was kind of close. I had a vet in the DA the other day and out of 8 fights, I only went down one for a collision with him, he said that's one for me! lol Some people must find a way to not lose even if it is by manipulating their little world! And since you are being somewhat of an arse about it, you probably do need to stick with the la7 as it is known for it's running capabilities and your acm would probably lend itself to running much!!:aok
Mark
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Sure no ego lol. In retrospect I shouldn't have been chivalrous and given you 2 out of 3 and played by your “rules”, you’re not worth it. I should have taken my victory and left you whining about “timidness” and “dweebyness”. To have to take all this crap from someone who barely manages a 3 to 1 k/d in the F4U, in a squad even. So far this tour you’ve managed 16 kills for 4 deaths. Wow, I’m impressed … really puts my 53 kills and 2 deaths in the Bf 110G to shame. You’re all mouth, but got nothing to show for it.
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I think the question was which was better, the LA7 or F4U-1, not who was better. Any attempt to claim one fighter is "better" than the other based on only five engagements is a bit short sighted, as is the claim that "it's the pilot not the plane".
Given equivalent skill, familiarity with the airplanes, and tactics in a 1v1, it is very unusual where one airplane type isn't superior to the other. It's how the strengths of each match up to the other's weaknesses. Of course, to really determine this you'd need more than five engagements and, ideally, the pilots would switch planes in order to cancel out small differences in skills. The best measure of a "stick" is 1v1 similar so it's purely pilot skill vs pilot skill but the best measure of a plane is how successful it is in the assigned mission. A Typhoon for instance is very well suited to an escort role while a Zeke would be much better for a point-defense mission. So, which plane is better? It depends.
Also, there is absolutely no justification for claiming that superior speed is for some reason cancelled out in a 1v1. Extension/pitchback fights are very common in RL as is the energy fight, both of which allows the faster fighter some advantages over slower, better turning fighters. For instance an extension/pitchback fight is what an F14 would use against an F18. Also, maintaining a speed advantage does not result in nothing but HO's unless you're using the speed (i.e., "e") incorrectly. Yes, in an extension/pitchback fight there is more opportunity for low-aspect forward quarter shots than in a pure knife fight because you tend to have multiple merges but the point is to gain/maintain a higher e-state than your opponent and only the unskilled will rely on one HO after the other. If that happens it's not a slam against speed or the plane, it's a slam against the pilot.
The real answer to the question of which plane is better is "it depends". Which plane is better is more relevant to the mission being performed than how a few 1v1's turn out.
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:noid
2 weeks!
wait nvm wrong thread.
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Originally posted by Mace2004
Also, there is absolutely no justification for claiming that superior speed is for some reason cancelled out in a 1v1. Extension/pitchback fights are very common in RL as is the energy fight, both of which allows the faster fighter some advantages over slower, better turning fighters.
You’re not allowed to extend … it’s called “running” and it is against the RuLeZ! :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Viking
Sure no ego lol. In retrospect I shouldn't have been chivalrous and given you 2 out of 3 and played by your “rules”, you’re not worth it. I should have taken my victory and left you whining about “timidness” and “dweebyness”. To have to take all this crap from someone who barely manages a 3 to 1 k/d in the F4U, in a squad even. So far this tour you’ve managed 16 kills for 4 deaths. Wow, I’m impressed … really puts my 53 kills and 2 deaths in the Bf 110G to shame. You’re all mouth, but got nothing to show for it.
LMAO! stat boy! You havent learned the simplest of acm's. All you have, is HO's and running. If you can't rope the guy, then you run. I am sure that many of your kills in the MA are gang kils, HO's and cherries/vulches! You completely flew the la7 all wrong and extremely weak and timid I might add! then you come in here and try to talk like you did something! LMAO ROFL! You would had never got guns on me had I not been impatient with your timidity! Take your little 1 kill you got on me in the DA and run with it! It is all you have, since your skills at acm are lacking. Given me two out of three is laughable, You got completely out flown and out classed and undeniably OWNT! I was trying to be nice for the sake of the argument but when lamer comes on here and tries to manipulate what really happened/lie about it, then I spare no respect for you! You are in the same category as Storch in my opinion. Basically you are a mediocre pilot that manipulates and distorts reality to make yourself feel like you belong on the porch with the big dogs, but you don't! The TA is open and trainers are available most nights!
Mark
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Lol ego boy take it easy, you’ll strain something. How exactly can one fly timidly in a led-sled like the 110G? Obviously you’re full of yourself and I’m sorry if my killing your oh so superior F4U has shaken the foundations of your petty little ego. Now, you’ll have to excuse me, I have some real life matters to attend to so I’ll leave you to your rambling.
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It's kind of a shame that we don't have ROD (Rules of Discourse) in AH. Some get all wrapped around the axle with the personal side of things, maybe they think TOPGUN the movie was a realistic depiction of TOPGUN the Naval Fighter Weapons School. Unlike the movie, TOPGUN goes out of its way to eliminate the ego even to the point that in a debrief you only talk in third person about what a particular plane did, not what you did. For instance, instead of "I rolled left and pulled to his six and gunned Jester's loser brains out as he was being dweebish and trying to run from my uberness" it was "the F14 rolled left and pulled giving him a solid tracking shot on the A4". There is no TOPGUN trophy, no "scores" being kept, no distinguished graduate...just hardcore flying. Maybe, just maybe, TOPGUN knows the difference between flying and an ego massage. To bad we'll never figure that out.
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Originally posted by Viking
Lol ego boy take it easy, you’ll strain something. How exactly can one fly timidly in a led-sled like the 110G? Obviously you’re full of yourself and I’m sorry if my killing your oh so superior F4U has shaken the foundations of your petty little ego. Now, you’ll have to excuse me, I have some real life matters to attend to so I’ll leave you to your rambling.
110 pilot that doesn't know acm...........LMAO!!!!!! HO HO HO funny stuff! Good luck storc.....errr viking! :aok
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lol, this thread is funny. hehehehe.
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i got 42 killls in two sorties with the NIK2J, both sorties landed. a 20 victories and then a 22 victories.
sounds similar to your 110G kills viking, no? Anyone who gets those stats in a twin engine big fat 110G is not doing it any way but flying 'smart' or as most of us would call it, timid.
you know how i got those huge kill counts? flying 'timid' for 2 hours in a one hundred plane furball. making a few kills, extending, fuel management, wingmen, running from an unfair fight more and more as my kill count rose, playing my very hardest to survive no matter what. It was alot of fun i have two awesome films.
now, you know what.... those 42 kills for 0 deaths took less skill and ACM work than a little 1 on 1 i had today in the MA, la7 vs hurri2c.
your stats claim in this type of argument mark you as timid, and flying for score, in the eyes of a furballer, and thus proving skyrock pretty much totaly right. your ACMs are not up to standard if you consider your 110G stats to be proof of virtual dogfighting skills.
they are however good proof of your skills in smart flying, wtg.
just a nuetral opinion.
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Sounds like a rematch is in order.
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To bad we can't sit in the bleachers and watch.... drink beer....and eat popcorn
:(
Gatr
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Originally posted by moot
Sounds like a rematch is in order.
He wouldn't last 10 seconds after merge if we in the same plane! :aok
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Originally posted by Gatr
To bad we can't sit in the bleachers and watch.... drink beer....and eat popcorn
:(
Gatr
CMeye mode!!!!!!!! :D
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Originally posted by Viking
You’re not allowed to extend … it’s called “running” and it is against the RuLeZ! :rolleyes:
You can extend out, build E and reverse. No foul. It's easy enough to determine who is building E and who is running.
The thing about the Zero is that most pilots will immediately reverse as the aircraft pass. To have any chance against a powerful fighter, he must hope that the other guy fights his fight. However, a P-51D or F4U (as examples) would carry much greater speed into the merge. That speed will give them an altitude advantage (and E advantage) from the outset. The Mustang or Corsair will extend about 2k, zoom up several thousand feet above the Zero and control the engagement from there on. From that point it is simply a matter of time before the Zero gets whacked.
A fun duel is perimeter dueling. This usually involves both pilots flying the same fighter. Both take off in opposite directions from a 5k base in the TA dueling map. The fight is on as soon as you clear the end of the runway/cliff. Reverse and go at it. You are not allowed to fly outside the base perimeter. A knife fight in a phone booth.
My regards,
Widewing
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Originally posted by FiLtH
Ive always said its the pilot not the plane. And that usually holds true to a point. When you have 2 good pilots, the plane is usually the deciding factor.
Actually in most cases of pilots of equal skill, it's usuall the pilot that makes the first mistake that costs him the fight.
ack-ack
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Rgr that ack, Im was referring to each in a different ride, one plane being superior.
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Originally posted by B@tfinkV
i got 42 killls in two sorties with the NIK2J, both sorties landed. a 20 victories and then a 22 victories.
Wtg.
Originally posted by B@tfinkV
sounds similar to your 110G kills viking, no? Anyone who gets those stats in a twin engine big fat 110G is not doing it any way but flying 'smart' or as most of us would call it, timid.
No I rarely land more than 5-10 kills per sortie in the 110 since I have a “land if damaged” policy to avoid falling victim to my own greed. I don’t shy away from bombers, so I usually end up with damage sooner rather than later. Nor do I shy away from 1-on-1’s.
Originally posted by B@tfinkV
you know how i got those huge kill counts? flying 'timid' for 2 hours in a one hundred plane furball. making a few kills, extending, fuel management, wingmen, running from an unfair fight more and more as my kill count rose, playing my very hardest to survive no matter what. It was alot of fun i have two awesome films.
now, you know what.... those 42 kills for 0 deaths took less skill and ACM work than a little 1 on 1 i had today in the MA, la7 vs hurri2c.
So in other words flying “timid” is the degratory term used against those who fly smart by those who fly dumb. I think I’ll just have to get used to that term then.
I don’t think I’ve ever been in a 50 plane furball let alone 100 planes. I prefer a friendly flight of 5-10 or so with a similarly sized opposition. Defense or offense doesn’t matter, though defense often yields a better pelt load.
Originally posted by B@tfinkV
your stats claim in this type of argument mark you as timid, and flying for score, in the eyes of a furballer, and thus proving skyrock pretty much totaly right. your ACMs are not up to standard if you consider your 110G stats to be proof of virtual dogfighting skills.
What “standards” of ACM are you referring to? I prefer to take my cues from the likes of Bölcke, Hartmann and Marseilles, not some dweebs 60+ years later who thinks that furballing and dying every five minutes is the epitome of dogfighting skills.
Originally posted by B@tfinkV
they are however good proof of your skills in smart flying, wtg.
Thank you.
Originally posted by B@tfinkV
just a nuetral opinion.
Yes, that sounded very neutral.
Originally posted by SkyRock
He wouldn't last 10 seconds after merge if we in the same plane! :aok
I lasted longer in a plane you meant was inferior to yours, I even lasted long enough to kill you once in an inferior dueling plane. I think I’d do ok. After Easter’s over I’m game for a duel if you are, though I’d understand if you declined. After all, if I were to win your ego might become fatally injured from the humiliation.
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Originally posted by SkyRock
110 pilot that doesn't know acm...........LMAO!!!!!! HO HO HO funny stuff! Good luck storc.....errr viking! :aok
Btw. Storch is a true gentleman ... compared to you.
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I can up in an La7 and fly straight in DA and last longer...whats your point?
DA is meant to "fight".
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Originally posted by killnu
...whats your point?
You obviously missed it.
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Rematch!
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Originally posted by Widewing
You can extend out, build E and reverse. No foul. It's easy enough to determine who is building E and who is running.
No foul? But “timid” and “dweebish” perhaps? Or so I was led to believe when I did that against SkyRock.
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Originally posted by Viking
Nor do I shy away from 1-on-1’s.
never suggested you would, smart flying is all about a fair 1 on 1 or ditching till you can kill from saftey, i thought? you of course realise that there are hundreds of us lemmings who routinely wont shy away from 10 on 1 even if we have 5 kills to 'land' already.
so in other words flying “timid” is the degratory term used against those who fly smart by those who fly dumb. I think I’ll just have to get used to that term then.
What “standards” of ACM are you referring to? I prefer to take my cues from the likes of Bölcke, Hartmann and Marseilles, not some dweebs 60+ years later who thinks that furballing and dying every five minutes is the epitome of dogfighting skills.
yep pretty much because if you dont really die in this game and have the chance to fly outstanding, artistic, creative virtual air combat manouvers then flying energy farming loops and 3 minute long single manouvers can seem rather tame to those who have tasted the intensity of total chaos and been unable but to become a part of the moving organism of swirling madness that 40 people in virtual planes create when confined to 5000 feet of altitude and 10 square miles of arena.
Yes, that sounded very neutral.
doesnt seem like sarcasm but just in case, im neutral because im not going to catagorise myself as a furballer or a smart flyer or anything but someone who likes to fly and fight even virtualy, willing to enjoy every single aspect from ripping things up in a jet fighter to fighting a horde alone in a tbm with only rockets....lemming today, merciless bastige the next.
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Originally posted by Viking
No foul? But “timid” and “dweebish” perhaps? Or so I was led to believe when I did that against SkyRock.
may i hazzard a geuss that in the circles of the most keen dueling players the most basic of fights will be determined in less than a minute and the most complex will last 5 mins without the two planes seperating further than 500 yrds the entire fight.
despite his constant and hugely exagerated play acting 031598 numbers dweeb aka nutrock is infact a very difficult opponent in a duel in any planes. im sure that you too are a kickazz pilot, thats why most of us play, to kick some *** and we all do it in our own ways and thats freedom for you.
go fight skyrock 25 times in the same planes and rinse the true turnfighting balls out of the whole hanger in one go. you come back and tell us who you think can kickazz in the most number of cool ways out of the two of you. i am not saying it will be either of you, but you just see and answer to yourself.
any duel when seperation is beyond 1000yrds and no closure is forthcoming is a loss for the extending party.
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Originally posted by Mace2004
To bad we'll never figure that out.
Hate it when I'm proved right. :rofl
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Originally posted by B@tfinkV
Originally posted by Viking
Nor do I shy away from 1-on-1’s.
never suggested you would, smart flying is all about a fair 1 on 1 or ditching till you can kill from saftey, i thought?
I don’t get your meaning. Fighting 1-on-1 is not particularly smart unless you have an initial advantage, but it is fun so…
Killing from safety is boring, tried that in the Lala. A little danger is required to keep the old ticker going in fights.
Originally posted by B@tfinkV
you of course realise that there are hundreds of us lemmings who routinely wont shy away from 10 on 1 even if we have 5 kills to 'land' already.
Of course. If that’s your idea of fun then who am I to argue. However I wonder how much fun it really can be in the long run. After all it is not the “smart” flyers who are throwing demeaning remarks at other players. Sometimes I think that furballing, for all its promise of fast fun action, must be quite frustrating after a while since it generates so much animosity toward other players.
Originally posted by B@tfinkV
yep pretty much because if you dont really die in this game and have the chance to fly outstanding, artistic, creative virtual air combat manouvers then flying energy farming loops and 3 minute long single manouvers can seem rather tame to those who have tasted the intensity of total chaos and been unable but to become a part of the moving organism of swirling madness that 40 people in virtual planes create when confined to 5000 feet of altitude and 10 square miles of arena.
That’s fun for a diversion sure, but I bore easily of such intense action. I’m much more of a “chess player” kind of guy. I used to fly in the monthly KOTH’s back in the day, even won a couple of rounds (in Yak-9T and Me 163 if my memory serves me). It was fun for sure, but I’d not want to do that every day if you catch my meaning. I’m the kind of guy you’ll probably not see in the MA again when CT is up and running.
Originally posted by B@tfinkV
...lemming today, merciless bastige the next.
My kind of player. Last tour I was a lemming most of the time. This tour (so far) I’m a murderer.
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the attraction of the fast paced almost drug addict like, as you seemed to put it, furballer is not to simple fight in furballs it is to control them.
S! viking i got to go skyrock could just pwn me for hijacking his fun.
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Originally posted by B@tfinkV
go fight skyrock 25 times in the same planes and rinse the true turnfighting balls out of the whole hanger in one go. you come back and tell us who you think can kickazz in the most number of cool ways out of the two of you. i am not saying it will be either of you, but you just see and answer to yourself.
Oh I’m quite sure he’s the most proficient duelist of the two of us. And while dueling does have a certain appeal, when SkyRock criticized me for killing him in a dweebish way I remembered why I don’t do duels much.
Anton, I don’t know what name he flies by now or even if he’s still around, but that was an opponent after my own heart. I had one of my most memorable fights with him back in the old AH1 MA. The fight started long before we were in icon range, both trying to gain the advantage before the merge. After 5 minutes of positioning contest at dot range was over we merged, my 109F having won a slight altitude advantage on his Yak-9U. What ensued was a 10+ minute 1-on-1 that took us from 20k to the deck and covering a whole sector, with several extensions, reversals and spiral climbs. After it was over we had a long friendly chat on what was done right and wrong and the relative strengths and weaknesses of the two planes. Then we saluted for a good fight and returned to the game.
That’s a fight in my book. That's a duel worth remembering.
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Originally posted by B@tfinkV
the attraction of the fast paced almost drug addict like, as you seemed to put it, furballer is not to simple fight in furballs it is to control them.
S! viking i got to go skyrock could just pwn me for hijacking his fun.
I guess that's why so many of them are bitter and unfriendly to those that, perhaps inadvertently, kill them. No matter how good you are you can't control a 100 plane furball, or a 40 plane for that matter. It’s a game of chance with high odds. It may be addictive to some, but I think for many the frustrations get the better of them.
Batfink. Got to get some sleep myself. Have a long drive in about four hours and won't be back until after Easter weekend.
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Originally posted by B@tfinkV
any duel when seperation is beyond 1000yrds and no closure is forthcoming is a loss for the extending party.
That depends on what is being flown. In Spits or Zekes, that is likely the case. However, in P-51s, blowing out a bit more than 1k is normal. Especially if one or both of the pilots know that more than 3 notches of flaps is counter-productive with the Mustang.
Dissimilar types demand different tactics. If I'm dueling a Spit5 with a P-51, lateral separation is essential as the Mustang can't hope to knife fight the Spit. Thus, he needs to conserve E and work at gaining an angle.
As far as I'm concerned, if the other guys stays engaged (meaning he is maneuvering for an advantage), I don't consider it an issue if he gets 2k of separation. It only means a re-merge. Heck, I'll often let them get that far out intentionally just to see what he tries to do next.
My regards,
Widewing
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Originally posted by Widewing
That depends on what is being flown. In Spits or Zekes, that is likely the case. However, in P-51s, blowing out a bit more than 1k is normal. Especially if one or both of the pilots know that more than 3 notches of flaps is counter-productive with the Mustang.
Dissimilar types demand different tactics. If I'm dueling a Spit5 with a P-51, lateral separation is essential as the Mustang can't hope to knife fight the Spit. Thus, he needs to conserve E and work at gaining an angle.
As far as I'm concerned, if the other guys stays engaged (meaning he is maneuvering for an advantage), I don't consider it an issue if he gets 2k of separation. It only means a re-merge. Heck, I'll often let them get that far out intentionally just to see what he tries to do next.
My regards,
Widewing
I'd go even further. In some match-ups, if being chased, you could need 3-3.5K to get the nose around for another merge.
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I fly stupid, If I land 5 kills it's a good sorte. However, i've slaughtered any number of high performance rides with my poor little zeke. I love to see a spit flyer comin cause they all want to turn fight. As for the F4U vs La La, F4 is a better turn fighter but I think the LA BnZ's better. Just my uneducated noob opinion. I've shot down each but it seems the La La's are always running away where an F4 will stay and fight.
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Originally posted by Viking
Btw. Storch is a true gentleman ... compared to you.
Viking, this statement alone tells me much about you!
:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Viking
when SkyRock criticized me for killing him in a dweebish way
I never intended to criticise you for killing me in any way, I just responded to what I thought was an attempt to convey and alterrior reality as to what actually happened in the DA. You act as though I did not type to you that I had conv set to close the first time I went up with you and that I said it wouldnt happen again. Youact like it was somehow evenly matched when you were totally and completely outmanuvered in every aspect of the duels. You had the one time that I missed a shot in the vert and act like that was how the fights were going. I dont care who wins and loses in the DA as I have been on both ends too many times to count. I do care about integrity of the affair! if it had been close, believe me I would have said so in this thread!
Mark
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Well, I'm glad we managed to remember what's really important about dueling here... Beating the other guy mercilessly, having him know it, and making damn sure that everyone else and their brother can't miss it either :rolleyes:
Anyone's opinion about anyone's ability as a player change from page 1?
How about as a sportsman?
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Originally posted by Vudak
Well, I'm glad we managed to remember what's really important about dueling here... Beating the other guy mercilessly, having him know it, and making damn sure that everyone else and their brother can't miss it either :rolleyes:
Anyone's opinion about anyone's ability as a player change from page 1?
How about as a sportsman?
Vudak, read into it a little more. We dueled the hog-1 against the la7. I am partial to the hog-1 and he the la7. Now, I took offense at him coming in here and skewing the results or trying to paint some picture that just didn't happen. The la7 had only one didmension to fight the hog with and it only had success in that dimension, 1 out of 5 attempts. I thought stating otherwise was a cheapshot!:aok
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Originally posted by SkyRock
I am partial to the hog-1 and he the la7.
So now change planes. The thread is about whats better the -1 or the La7. We still don't know. We just know what pilot in a particular aircraft hammered the other pilot in a particular aircraft. And one hit a tree and one didn't.
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Originally posted by Lye-El
And one hit a tree and one didn't.
Lol, this is exactly what Im saying...... He augered into the ground trying to dodge my bullets with me 200 out, then I hit a pop-up tree while setting up kill shot from 400 out his 6. Both of these (augers) were after the fight had already been determined as far as manuvering for a kill was concerned. :aok
Mark
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Originally posted by Widewing
That depends on what is being flown. In Spits or Zekes, that is likely the case. However, in P-51s, blowing out a bit more than 1k is normal. Especially if one or both of the pilots know that more than 3 notches of flaps is counter-productive with the Mustang.
Dissimilar types demand different tactics. If I'm dueling a Spit5 with a P-51, lateral separation is essential as the Mustang can't hope to knife fight the Spit. Thus, he needs to conserve E and work at gaining an angle.
As far as I'm concerned, if the other guys stays engaged (meaning he is maneuvering for an advantage), I don't consider it an issue if he gets 2k of separation. It only means a re-merge. Heck, I'll often let them get that far out intentionally just to see what he tries to do next.
My regards,
Widewing
agreed for sure widewing, i was simply offering a limitation for thier duel. A remerge is always a good way to end a chase stalemate.
Its just a good way to say 'hey, ya got me on the back foot, lets save the flying time and re-merge from here'.