Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Kurt on April 06, 2007, 12:38:01 AM
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When you fools get your P39 (assuming you do).
A month from now when you are back in your favored fighters... And your obsolete P39 is a hanger queen... Flown only in FSO and other such staged events...
I'll ask you..
Why did you steal our chance to add a good M.A. plane to the game?
And you'll say "I fly Early"
Right, between early war and mid war thats what ... 75 pilots? I already understand you 75... But 500 or so are in the Late war M.A. What about the rest of you?
Oh, You took it because its mid engine, and has a big gun..
Ugh. Mark my words. HANGER QUEEN
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I'll answer your question with a question.
When it is ok to add anything that's not a late war MA oriented plane?
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Originally posted by Kurt
When you fools get your P39 (assuming you do).
Heh.
All 75 of us must own you late war Napoleons, I guess?
- oldman
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i want the G55 :cry :cry :cry i want G55!!!
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I'll answer your question with a question.
When it is ok to add anything that's not a late war MA oriented plane?
That wasn't a question.
Sticking a question mark on the end of a sentence doesn't automatically make it a question.
I'm not bagging on you, I just don't understand what you meant to ask.
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Originally posted by Oldman731
Heh.
All 75 of us must own you late war Napoleons, I guess?
- oldman
No Oldman..
I'm not getting sucked into the "Our arena owns your arena" discussion... I'm just telling you, most people are in the L.W... Go ahead... Disagree, I dare you.
I think closer to the truth is that the late war flyers don't understand that this plane is fodder in the L.W. arenas... They don't know what they voted on, and they are going to die in droves...
And that is why it will be a hanger queen in a month... (in the L.W. arenas)
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Greetings,
We shall see. But I believe, and others can correct me if I am incorrect, the P39 had a pretty good run on the Eastern Front.
MA is pretty much fought below 15k and is similar in many aspects to that theater - not the fight most US planes were designed and built for. Only by exception do I find anyone above 30 (I hear the alt monkey screams now ;).
In addition to filling the scenario / FSO needs, it just may well turn out to be a decent MA plane. Not that I will abandon my Jug any time soon tho.
Regards,
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Lot's of guys like the challenge of taking and early-midwar bird into latewar and taking on the hotrods.
This 38G driver sure does anyway. Seems to me i see guys flying P40s in latewar, or 109Fs, Zekes or what have you.
Not everyone needs the latest and greatest to compete as their competition is in seeing how they can make the not so late and greatest perform against those uber birds.
And as MWL said, the 39 is a low alt performer where the AH war is fought at. Intercepting bombers at 20K isn't the P39s job. but racing around on the deck is.
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tell ya what, once we have the P-39 you feel free to bring whatever you feel like and look for the folks in the p-39's. Once you get your clock cleaned a few times you'll feel better.
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Originally posted by Kurt
No Oldman..
I'm not getting sucked into the "Our arena owns your arena" discussion... I'm just telling you, most people are in the L.W... Go ahead... Disagree, I dare you.
I think closer to the truth is that the late war flyers don't understand that this plane is fodder in the L.W. arenas... They don't know what they voted on, and they are going to die in droves...
And that is why it will be a hanger queen in a month... (in the L.W. arenas)
You really are clueless...there isnt a plane in the set thats a hanger queen in the LWA. They all get used. The p-39 will do very well in the LWA....
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I want to ride my bicycle.
I want to ride my bike........
I want to ride my bicycle.
I want to ride it where I like.
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Originally posted by humble
tell ya what, once we have the P-39 you feel free to bring whatever you feel like and look for the folks in the p-39's. Once you get your clock cleaned a few times you'll feel better.
I havent voted for the 39
But I do agree with that statement LOL
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Originally posted by humble
You really are clueless...there isnt a plane in the set thats a hanger queen in the LWA. They all get used. The p-39 will do very well in the LWA....
the closest thing I can think of to a true hangar queen in the Ma is the AR 234
There arent any real hangar queens
Hell I even fly the 109 E and F in the LW arena
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Umm... Except for one ride in a Spit XVI tonight the only planes I flew were the Hurri MkIIC and the P-38G, both EW planes and I never stepped out of the LWA's.
Uhh... That WAS a question. Almost any sentance beginning with Who, What, Why, Where, When or How is a question and, while there are a few exceptions, this wasn't one of them. The question was, WHEN will adding an EW plane vs. a LW plane be OK? which could be re-stated as; Will it ever be OK to add a EW plane? Get it?
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When it is ok to add anything that's not a late war MA oriented plane?
actually, based on how this sentence is worded, it is not a question. it is a statement ending in a question mark.
for it to be a question it would need to read: "When is it ok to add anything that's not a late MA oriented plane?"
:D
NOT
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I shot down a typhie with a 109 tonight. Shoulda seen the sortie score.:lol Not bringing anything to the discussion, just bragging really. Keep bringing me your uber planes. Please. My 109 needs the encouragement.
(You really are just as good as the rest of them Franz, really, would i lie to you? Just stop with the oil cooler crap and i'll find you a nice Lgay7 to smack around, all for your very own.) :D :p :D
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Originally posted by Kurt
No Oldman..
I'm not getting sucked into the "Our arena owns your arena" discussion... I'm just telling you, most people are in the L.W... Go ahead... Disagree, I dare you.
I think closer to the truth is that the late war flyers don't understand that this plane is fodder in the L.W. arenas... They don't know what they voted on, and they are going to die in droves...
And that is why it will be a hanger queen in a month... (in the L.W. arenas)
I disagree!!
Now what happens?
And the plane isnt the fodder:aok
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If the p-39 is added, i cant wait for all the prox kills when the noobs keep spinning it straight into the ground.
:t
WEEEEEEEEEEE LOOK AT ME! IM IN P-39! CHECK OUT THIS GUN!
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I stopped flying around the end of 95. In that tour 65 I had 25 P-40B kills.
Here are my total kills from tour 66:
Ship Gunner - 19
A6M2 - 18
F4U-1C - 14
P-40B - 13
Bf 109E-4 - 10
Hurricane Mk I - 10
C.202 - 10
Spitfire Mk I - 10
Hurricane Mk IIC - 4
Panzer IV H - 1
Ostwind - 1
Sometimes its fun to try something challenging.
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Because adding another uberdweeb plane would mean more power to the dweebs.
Jumping into a furball knowing you could expend your entire ammo shooting down your targets and walk out without a scratch is boring.
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Does anyone think the P39 would handle better or be faster than the P40? And if so...Why?
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Originally posted by MWL
We shall see. But I believe, and others can correct me if I am incorrect, the P39 had a pretty good run on the Eastern Front.
MA is pretty much fought below 15k and is similar in many aspects to that theater - not the fight most US planes were designed and built for. Only by exception do I find anyone above 30 (I hear the alt monkey screams now ;).
You're correct, MWL. There's one unknown variable, though: in RL the P 39 fought well against german planes. Who know what will happen when it'll have to fight american, british or japanese, even russian planes? We all know those are the majority of fighters used in LWs... I'm really curious to see what will happen if the 39 wins.
Ball... you're so cruel! :lol (I hope to get a lot of proxies!)
Roo, nice quotation! ;)
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"Why did you steal our chance to add a good M.A. plane to the game? And you'll say "I fly Early" "....75 pilots? I already understand you 75... But 500 or so are in the Late war M.A. What about the rest of you?"
You seem to be implying that the minority is getting their way. Sorry bub but no matter how bitter you may be this is turning out the way the majority of the current customers want it. (Which is why there are two bombers in the finals and a few really nice fighters have been dropped from running).
That's the cold truth.
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So the only criteria for if we get a plane or not is: ..."Will it revolutionise the LWA?
Sorry kurt ...but I could not disagree more
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Originally posted by humble
You really are clueless...
And you're a pretentious clod. Do you see how my starting the post with a remark like that makes you not care about the rest of it? Learn from that... Being a jerk is a sure fire way to make sure fewer people share your opinion.
Don't start off by making assumptions about what I know or why I think what I do.
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Originally posted by Westy
You seem to be implying that the minority is getting their way. Sorry bub but no matter how bitter you may be this is turning out the way the majority of the current customers want it.
I'm not bitter about the vote at all, I just find it exceedingly curious that arguably the weakest plane in the whole selection (well, ok, there was the Buffalo... so I guess thats not exactly true) has such a die-hard group of followers.
And I know the minority isn't winning - Thats logically impossible in this vote. I just think its very curious that this particular bird is doing so well considering its less than stellar performance and the fact that many people don't even know what it is.
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Originally posted by bj229r
Does anyone think the P39 would handle better or be faster than the P40? And if so...Why?
The P-39Q was about 30 mph faster than the P-40E (385 vs 355) at best altitude. It also has a lower drag coefficient than any fighter, save the P-51. That means it will hold E very well. With 1,420 hp available in WEP at sea level, its power loading is lowest of all US fighters (5.5 lb/hp). That should equate to very good acceleration. Based upon its lift coefficient and wing loading, I calculate turning ability to be somewhere in between the FM-2 and F6F-5.
If we end up getting the P-39Q (probably with the P-39D too), I believe that it will more than hold its own the the late war arenas.
Either way, I'm the type who goes hunting La-7s and Mustangs with a TBM or Boston III. Flying the P-39 will be a luxury.
My regards,
Widewing
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Originally posted by Kurt
Being a jerk is a sure fire way to make sure fewer people share your opinion.
:lol Anyone find this mildly ironic coming from him?
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Originally posted by Kurt
I just think its very curious that this particular bird is doing so well considering its less than stellar performance and the fact that many people don't even know what it is.
Why do you think a lot of people have no idea what a p-39 is? I've known about the P-39 ever since my childhood when I was first bitten by the WWII aviaition bug.
Plus there are a lot of ex Warbirds guys flying here, the P-39 was used in that sim. I believe the P-39 is in the IL2 series as well. It might be assuming that a lot of people have no idea what a P-39 is, is an assupmtion in it'self.:)
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Originally posted by Kurt
That wasn't a question.
Sticking a question mark on the end of a sentence doesn't automatically make it a question.
I'm not bagging on you, I just don't understand what you meant to ask.
I guess my point was that if the primary criteria is that the plane be a successful late war MA oriented plane - when do we get the other planes that would work great in other environments (AvA, scenarios, etc), fill planeset gaps, or contribute something to the EWA or MWA. Not to mention people who enjoy flying the early war planes even in the LWA's.
I don't expect it (P-39) to get as much usage as the spit of LA7, but I've voted for it because I think it will be a fun little plane, it will be a challenge, and my historical interest in the early years of the pacific war.
Hope that clears it up a bit. :)
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Not going to get the P-39 Airacobra. If popular vote in-game were voting fighters, like many assume they are, there would not have been 2 American bombers in 2nd to last round.
You all is going to end up with the B-25 Mitchell being the winner, cause the voters saw a movie once. Enjoy.
And I hope it's a G, H, or J model to just tick off the EW players that were voting for it for EW use. Talk about hangar queens.
Congrats to the half-dozen or so pilots that actually may use it past the first week of introduction.
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This thread could be confused for a troll, Kurt.
Alotta people are forgetting that we're lucky to be getting a plane at all.
I'm just looking forward to seeing how good a job that Waffle does on The eventual finalist(B-25 is still in the final, you know.)
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Originally posted by tedrbr
Not going to get the P-39 Airacobra. If popular vote in-game were voting fighters, like many assume they are, there would not have been 2 American bombers in 2nd to last round.
You all is going to end up with the B-25 Mitchell being the winner, cause the voters saw a movie once. Enjoy.
And I hope it's a G, H, or J model to just tick off the EW players that were voting for it for EW use. Talk about hangar queens.
Congrats to the half-dozen or so pilots that actually may use it past the first week of introduction.
It must be wonderful to know it all. Amazingly enough, I see Val, Stukas
Ju-88s and SBDs in the MA all the time. I guess these folks didn't get your
hangar queen memo yet.
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He's just bitter.. read his post with that in mind :)
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Originally posted by bj229r
Does anyone think the P39 would handle better or be faster than the P40? And if so...Why?
The P39 easily outflys the 109F/109G2 at lower alts....it turns significantly better but is inferior in the vertical. The P-39 should turn as well or better then the F6F down low...
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I'm curious: what do you guys define as "Hanger Queen"?
The most popular plane, the N1K2, is used about 7%. The P40B is used about 0.25%. That's a factor of 28 times less usage than the N1K2. The Bf109E4 is 0.12%: a factor of 1/58th of the N1K2 usage. Since they are used, a bit, does that mean they are not "Hanger Queens"?
(Usage estimated from kill + death numbers)
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Originally posted by Guppy35
Lot's of guys like the challenge of taking and early-midwar bird into latewar and taking on the hotrods.
This 38G driver sure does anyway. Seems to me i see guys flying P40s in latewar, or 109Fs, Zekes or what have you.
Not everyone needs the latest and greatest to compete as their competition is in seeing how they can make the not so late and greatest perform against those uber birds.
This is WORD FOR WORD, what I do daily. I shoot down LWA birds with Spit 1's, Ki61's, or P38G's. I NEED a challenge. Upping an La7 and landing 7 kills to ME, is not a challenge.
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Translation=My plane got knocked out so I'm gonna whine about those that didn't vote my way.:D
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Originally posted by Bucky73
Translation=My plane got knocked out so I'm gonna whine about those that didn't vote my way.:D
Hush you ;)
GO PENS!!!!
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WOOT Pens:aok
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Originally posted by 715
I'm curious: what do you guys define as "Hanger Queen"?
The most popular plane, the N1K2, is used about 7%. The P40B is used about 0.25%. That's a factor of 28 times less usage than the N1K2. The Bf109E4 is 0.12%: a factor of 1/58th of the N1K2 usage. Since they are used, a bit, does that mean they are not "Hanger Queens"?
(Usage estimated from kill + death numbers)
Looking at last month numbers, at lowest and highest numbers:
Model | Kills | Deaths| Kills / Deaths + 1 |Total kills + deaths | %of total kills+ deaths
Ar 234.........287____612__0.468 2___899___0.000494507
B5N2...........324___1061__0. 3051__1385___0.000761837 -- 0.07% 7/10,000
Bf 109E- ...4454____976__0.4647__1430_ __0.00078659
D3A1...........397___1252__0. 3168__1649___0.000907054 -- 0.09% - 9/10,000
C.202..........663___1201__0. 5516__1864___0.001025318
Boston........255___2366__0.1 077__2621___0.001441716
SBD-5..........415___2257__0.1838__2672___0.001469769 -- 0.14% - 14/10,000
Bf 110C-4b..943___1740__0.5416__2683___0.001475819
Ju 87D-3......739___2018__0.366___2757___0.001516524 -- .0.15% - 15/10,000
P-40B..........547___2285__0.2393__2832___0.001557779
Spitfire 14..1571___1380__1.1376__2951 ___0.001623236
Me 163B.....2561___433___5.9009_ _2994___0.001646889
Spitfire Mk I..572___2553__0.224___3125__ _0.001718947
Hurri Mk I...1028___2518__0.4081__3546 ___0.001950524
P-38L.......14687__19819__0.741___34506__0.01898048
F6F-5.......16421__18309__0.8968__34730__0.019103694
Typhoon...21484__14083__1.525 4__35567__0.019564097
B-24J........11786__28635__0.4116__40421__0.022234104
SeaFire.....19020__22537__0.8 439__41557__0.022858975
Tiger I.......44230___7237__6.1108_ _51467__0.028310101
Ostwind....35412___22146__1.5 99___57558__0.031660536
La-7..........36853__29644__1.2431__66497__0.036577551
Spitfire16...36420__33655__1. 0821___70075__0.038545677
P-51D........38149__35937__1.0615__74086__0.04075198
N1K2.........42713__36241__1. 1785__78954__0.043429688
Panzer.....152065__162956__0. 9332__315021__0.173281451
Total number of kills and deaths in March = 1817973
I use total kills plus total deaths as a rough statistic of total use of those planes. Can't pull numbers for spawns.
85 vehicles in game (not counting gunners and chutes).
12 vehicles account for 49.5% of the total number of kills and deaths.
14 other vehicles account for less than 2% of total number of kills and deaths.
That the people flying the lower set of planes are voting for a EW medium bomber whose performance numbers will end up placing it in the upper group of planes just does not make sense statistically.
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Originally posted by Widewing
The P-39Q was about 30 mph faster than the P-40E (385 vs 355) at best altitude. It also has a lower drag coefficient than any fighter, save the P-51. That means it will hold E very well. With 1,420 hp available in WEP at sea level, its power loading is lowest of all US fighters (5.5 lb/hp). That should equate to very good acceleration. Based upon its lift coefficient and wing loading, I calculate turning ability to be somewhere in between the FM-2 and F6F-5.
Does it have magical hover flaps like the other American aircraft?
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Originally posted by tedrbr
Looking at last month numbers...
I was doing planes only.
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Originally posted by Ball
Does it have magical hover flaps like the other American aircraft?
Ya...like the 109 doesn't ..........................
:rofl
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What I can't understand is how people voted for the B-25 over the A-26... It's like getting a chance for a Spit XVI and it gets knocked out by a Spit I... ("Well, ONE is ahead of SIXTEEN so it MUST be better... Ahhhhhuuuuk! ")
The only good rides we had to choose from were the G.55 and the A-26 - the rest were total goats.
I figure the P-39 will win now... Unfortunately, those of you who haven't flown one (old Warbirds had one for years - when HiTech was running it) will soon realize what a lead-sled it really was. Think Yak9T (big gun) with less performance all around and nasty stall characteristics. They gave 'em away or relagated them for training for a reason...
We'll end up with a brand new hangar queen either way....
On the bright side, it will make for easy kills until people realize it.
*sigh*
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I figured out what the B25 will be good at.
ENY problem solver, when ENY is at 29 and I cant up anything, Im gonna go bomb you ina 25.:aok :p
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Originally posted by Ball
Does it have magical hover flaps like the other American aircraft?
Only the exported P400 we sent to the British will have the hover flaps :)
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Originally posted by Soulyss
Hope that clears it up a bit. :)
yup thx that was exactly what I was looking for.
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I love how these guys are complaining about the majority of players being clueless and stuff about the planes being voted on.
Maybe the majority of the players are wanting a ride that is a challenge to fly and fight with instead of anouther uber LW ride that the minority are complaining about not being voted on.
Maybe the majority of the players that participate in all the scenerios and FSO's and stuff want a plane that will better round out the plane set and can be used in a large percentage of scenerios and stuff.
Maybe the majority of the players that are voting on the P-39 and the B-25 have a better understanding of the historical importance these planes will bring to the game.
Maybe a majority of the players might want to fly in the EW and MW arenas if the plane set was filled out more and that is affecting their vote.
At least 90% of the plane set is geared towards the mid and late war aspect of the game. For those that can only handle the uber LW rides, you have enough to keep yourselves happy.
In the last 2 years that I've been playing the only planes that have been added to the game have been the following.
109K4
109G14
Spit VIII
Spit XVI
P-47N
F4U-1A
Jeep
Now how many of those are LW rides? Everyone but the F4U-1A and that plane is still very competative in the LW arenas, so you "we need a LW uber ride" noobs need to stop complaining.
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Yea, looks like we're getting the 39. I voted for it, after the G55 was gone. But if the B25 wins, I'm not gonna cry about it. I don't expect this will be the last new plane we will get in AW. Try to keep that in mind.
HTC has done a good thing. They let their customers choose what new product they wanted. I appreciate it. I was glad to participate.
Lastly, if this is the biggest complaint you have, count yourself fortunate.
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Originally posted by Kurt
When you fools get your P39 (assuming you do).
A month from now when you are back in your favored fighters... And your obsolete P39 is a hanger queen... Flown only in FSO and other such staged events...
I'll ask you..
Why did you steal our chance to add a good M.A. plane to the game?
And you'll say "I fly Early"
Right, between early war and mid war thats what ... 75 pilots? I already understand you 75... But 500 or so are in the Late war M.A. What about the rest of you?
Oh, You took it because its mid engine, and has a big gun..
Ugh. Mark my words. HANGER QUEEN
Just because you need a late war plane to survive in the LWA, doesn't mean everyone needs to fly a late war bird to survive in the LWA.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by tedrbr
You all is going to end up with the B-25 Mitchell being the winner, cause the voters saw a movie once. Enjoy.
Again with the assumptions on what people know, or at least what you think they know. As Shifty pointed out, it's silly to make an assumption on what you assume to be true.
I don't know how long you've been playing AH but ever since I started (tour 6), the B-25 has been on many player's wishlist to be added, along with the P-39.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by Ball
Does it have magical hover flaps like the other American aircraft?
Which American planes?
ack-ack
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(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/71_1175712721_america.jpg)
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Originally posted by shamroc
I figure the P-39 will win now... Unfortunately, those of you who haven't flown one (old Warbirds had one for years - when HiTech was running it) will soon realize what a lead-sled it really was. Think Yak9T (big gun) with less performance all around and nasty stall characteristics. They gave 'em away or relagated them for training for a reason...
We'll end up with a brand new hangar queen either way....
I enjoyed flying the P-39 in WB, almost as much as I did the P-38F/J/L during my time there. I wasn't the only one as I always saw a lot of P-39s flying around on the deck.
In real life, the P-39 performed well enough to do the job in the PTO and the MTO enough to keep flying until the end of the war. And as you've read from other posts, it performed great in the Eastern Front serving with the Soviet air units.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by Kurt
When you fools get your P39 (assuming you do).
A month from now when you are back in your favored fighters... And your obsolete P39 is a hanger queen... Flown only in FSO and other such staged events...
I'll ask you..
Why did you steal our chance to add a good M.A. plane to the game?
And you'll say "I fly Early"
Right, between early war and mid war thats what ... 75 pilots? I already understand you 75... But 500 or so are in the Late war M.A. What about the rest of you?
Oh, You took it because its mid engine, and has a big gun..
Ugh. Mark my words. HANGER QUEEN
.....careful Kurt, a birdie might land on that lip you got pokin out and doodie on it :)
Tumor
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Originally posted by Bucky73
Translation=My plane got knocked out so I'm gonna whine about those that didn't vote my way.:D
lol... amen to that one Buck! I'm voting P-39....:aok
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The Ar234 is only a hangar queen because the bombsite is broken.
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Originally posted by shamroc
The Ar234 is only a hangar queen because the bombsite is broken.
Switch from RATOS to Bombs (with Backspace) before calibration, works just fine.
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Originally posted by 715
I was doing planes only.
Okay, back to Spreadsheets then, using only plane data.
Using the Killed and Death numbers combined from last month to gage relative use, and excluding anything that is not a plane from the totals, {ie Plane model (Kills + deaths) / total planes (kills + deaths) }, the numbers would seem to indicate, that by use:,
26.87% of the planes used come from 5 planes: Nik2 (6.4%), P-51D(6.01%), Spit-16 (5.68%), La-7 (5.39%), and Seafire (3.37%), in that order.
52.18% of the planes used come from only 14 planes, of the 74 in-game.
In addition to the 5 above and in order: B-24J, Typhoon IB, F6F-5, P-38L, Bf 110G-2, Hurricane Mk IIC, Spitfire Mk VIII, Lancaster III, F4U-1D.
The lower 37 planes out of 74 total account for just 13.6% of total use.
From least used toward more use:
Ar 234, B5N2, Bf 109E-4, D3A1, C.202, Boston III, SBD-5, Bf 110C-4b, Ju 87D-3, P-40B, Spitfire Mk XIV, Me 163B, Spitfire Mk I, Hurricane Mk I, Ki-67, F4F-4, Bf 109G-2, Hurricane Mk IID, Fw 190F-8, Yak-9T, Bf 109G-6, F4U-4, P-47D-11, P-47-D25, Ta 152H, Bf 109F-4, P-38G, Me 262,, A-20G, P-40E, TBM-3, Ki-61, A6M2, FM2, F4U-1, Tempest. With 23 more planes ahead of them, not counting the top 14 used.
These numbers would be further skewed by separating EW, MW, and LW arenas, since many of the planes used in the higher percentiles, are not even present in the EW and MW..... but not too badly, since there are very few pilots ever in EW or MW.
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Originally posted by shamroc
The Ar234 is only a hangar queen because the bombsite is broken.
No it's not, but maybe the pilot is.
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Just because you need a late war plane to survive in the LWA, doesn't mean everyone needs to fly a late war bird to survive in the LWA.
ack-ack
My favorite part of this thread has been how since I disagree about the P39 I am a uber plane flying LW N00b. Who doesn't do scenarios etc.
The assumptions that get tossed around in here are never ending entertainment.
I've been here since 2002, I have participated actively in FSO ever since I first subscribed, and I primarily fly (heaven forfend) the Spit9 - which is a 1940 airframe with a 1942 engine... A good plane no doubt, but Uber?? Come now, lets un-wad our panties girls.
Anyhow, I want to thank the few people who gave a straight answer rather than an obcessive rant, its been a wonderful read and I've been happy I could stir you guys up so much..
Now if you'll excuse me, I need to eat dinner and get ready for FSO which I don't know anything about and what-not.
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Originally posted by Widewing
The P-39Q was about 30 mph faster than the P-40E (385 vs 355) at best altitude. It also has a lower drag coefficient than any fighter, save the P-51. That means it will hold E very well. With 1,420 hp available in WEP at sea level, its power loading is lowest of all US fighters (5.5 lb/hp). That should equate to very good acceleration. Based upon its lift coefficient and wing loading, I calculate turning ability to be somewhere in between the FM-2 and F6F-5.
If we end up getting the P-39Q (probably with the P-39D too), I believe that it will more than hold its own the the late war arenas.
Either way, I'm the type who goes hunting La-7s and Mustangs with a TBM or Boston III. Flying the P-39 will be a luxury.
My regards,
Widewing
Then why was it meat for Jap planes? Alt limitations?
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Originally posted by Kurt
That wasn't a question.
Sticking a question mark on the end of a sentence doesn't automatically make it a question.
Uuhhh...yes it does.:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by EndofSilence
Uuhhh...yes it does.:rolleyes:
Uh, no, it doesn't.
If there is no query to answer, then it is not a question. It's subtle, yes?
If we fritter and waste our lives answering every time there is a question mark rather than waiting for someone to ask a substantive question, then what do we have?
I would rather get the clarification, but if you prefer to go off half-cocked, hey, I'm not your mom?
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Originally posted by bj229r
Then why was it meat for Jap planes? Alt limitations?
I think a combination of factors have given the P39 a bad reputation. Part of the problem was situational the other was probably tactics. In the early part of the war most the fighter groups were flying defensive sorties, with primitive or no radar gave precious little time for the fighters to scramble to intercept. Rate of climb combined with no superchargers in the engines made it very difficult for the P39's to reach altitude before they were pounced on my the Zero escorts. The USAAF was also coming to grips with the Zero at this point in the war and other than knowing that they were generally outclassed in performance there wasn't any sort of doctrine to deal with it (like the navy's thach weave). Later when the allies started mounting more and more offensive operations the short range of the P-39 was a real limiting factor in the pacific theater.
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Originally posted by bj229r
Then why was it meat for Jap planes? Alt limitations?
Several factors were present.
First, only a handful of P-39s were available during the Guadalcanal campaign. These were mostly D models. The balance were P-400 export versions, which had no oxygen equipment. The biggest issue was that they simply could not get up to the Japanese bombers. When they tried, they were bounced by the enemy fighters. Down low, with their superior speed, the P-39s were more than a match for the Zeros and Oscars. Provided that is, they adhered to the doctrine of avoiding turning with the enemy.
Later, around Port Moresby, the P-39s were largely confined to ground support and short range patrols. Their range was insufficient to take the war to the Japanese. However, they performed well against the Japanese raids when they could reach the enemy. All of the Airacobra squadrons were hoping to get into P-38s as the P-39s were not offering much air combat. Eventually, they all received the Lightning.
In North Africa and Italy, the P-39s did an excellent job supporting the ground forces and held their own against the Luftwaffe.
The P-39Q was a significantly better fighter than the D models and the P-400s.
My regards,
Widewing
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Maybe I am alone in this, but I think we should get them all.
I wouldn't mind the new mission oriented game being put off a year or two if we could get back to receiving new planes in this game on a regular basis - whatever models they might be.
So we only getting one, at least it is a start. The P39 was fun enough in Warbirds, so I can't see any reason why it wouldn't be fun in AH too. (The B25, if it arrives, won't do what some people think it will. That big cannon sound interesting, but this game has a much more effective anti-air vehicle and air field defenses.)
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Originally posted by Guppy35
Seems to me i see guys flying P40s in latewar, or 109Fs, Zekes or what have you.
Heck, Ive been ho'ed by 109e, turnfought with a Hurri1 and been BNZed by a spit1!
But I agree with the other Sentiments. Why is it only Late war!? Just saying 'Ive been HO'ed by a 109E' shows that Early war planes feature in the LWA. Lets not JUST add LW planes. I haven't voted for the 39, simply because I dont want it and Im pretty sure its going to get in without my vote, but I agree with the statement that it wont be a hanger queen. It will still get kills, probarbly a lot because will underestimate it, as you so kindly have shown. If its not going to revolutionise the LW, kindly tell me why we have such planes as the Zeke, 109E, Hurri 1, Spitty 1, 88's Heck, the list could go on! Because their major planes in WW2? So? They dont revolutonise the LW, so we dont need them! Im a EW pilot in lw, and I can tell you, they ALL do very well in that arena. The 39 will win plenty of fights it gets into. Lets not nock and underdog. And as Rocky Balboa showed, everybody loves an Underdog!
Also Kurt, Humble is one of the most informed pilots I know (Granted I dont know ALL the pilots here, but I know a fare few). I would Value his opinion and notes rather than just nock them aside.
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Kurt, not gonna hijack this thread so I'll post up a grammar thread later in the O Club and we can discuss how a question mark works. (Over a glass of Sudzu) ;)
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Originally posted by humble
tell ya what, once we have the P-39 you feel free to bring whatever you feel like and look for the folks in the p-39's. Once you get your clock cleaned a few times you'll feel better.
I cant wait to see how many people abandon this thought when their stats fall through the floor. Its just a matter of, how long will their pride keep getting them killed in a P39 before they admit they made a mistake, and wasted a vote.
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Originally posted by Lunger
I cant wait to see how many people abandon this thought when their stats fall through the floor. Its just a matter of, how long will their pride keep getting them killed in a P39 before they admit they made a mistake, and wasted a vote.
The people who get kills in the 205, fm2, ect.. ect.
Will get kills in the P-39, it's the pilot not the plane.
Bronk
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Originally posted by Kurt
snip
Why did you steal our chance to add a good M.A. plane to the game?
(http://home.rgv.rr.com/casamyers/crybaby.jpg)
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Originally posted by Lunger
I cant wait to see how many people abandon this thought when their stats fall through the floor. Its just a matter of, how long will their pride keep getting them killed in a P39 before they admit they made a mistake, and wasted a vote.
Yea, you’re right. We should have voted in a good plane!
We should have voted in the P-51. Oh wait, we already have that. Well, then we should have voted in the Me-109. Oh wait, we already have that. Well, then we should have voted in the A6M. Oh wait, we already have that. Well, then we should have voted in the F4U. Oh wait, we already have that. Well, then we should have voted in the Spitfire. Oh wait, we already have that. Well, then we should have voted in the B-17. Oh wait, we already have that. Well, then we should have voted in the FW-190. Oh wait, we already have that. Well, then we should have voted in the P-147. Oh wait, we already have that. Well, then we should have voted in the P-47. Oh wait, we already have that. Well, then we should have voted in the B-26. Oh wait, we already have that. Well, then we should have voted in the LA-7. Oh wait, we already have that. Well, then we should have voted in the Lancaster. Well, then we should have voted in the Yak-9. Oh wait, we already have that. Oh wait, we already have that. Well, then we should have voted in the P-38. Oh wait, we already have that. Well, then we should have voted in the Me-262. Oh wait, we already have that. Well, then we should have voted in the Hurricane. Oh wait, we already have that. Well, then we should have voted in the Ju-88. Oh wait, we already have that. Well, then we should have voted in the Typhoon. Oh wait, we already have that. We should have voted in the C 205. Well, then we should have voted in the A-20. Oh wait, we already have that. Well, then we should have voted in the SBD. Oh wait, we already have that. Well, then we should have voted in the N1K. Oh wait, we already have that. Well, then we should have voted in the LA-5. Oh wait, we already have that.
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Originally posted by Bronk
The people who get kills in the 205, fm2, ect.. ect.
Will get kills in the P-39, it's the pilot not the plane.
Bronk
Dont get me wrong, I enjoy early war planes. However the time frame it was used has no bearing in its calibur. I fly the P-40 more in the LWA more than most I know but that means little in the case of the P39. I'm not debating its ability in the war, I am debating its usefullness in the LWA. It will go the way of the Spit I.
The P39 will have a place in the EWA and the FSO. I just tend to agree with those who would liked to have seen a more usefull plane added to the game.
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Originally posted by eskimo2
Yea, you’re right. We should have voted in a good plane!
We should have voted in the P-51. Oh wait, we already have that. Well, then we should have voted in the Me-109. Oh wait, we already have that. Well, then we should have voted in the A6M. Oh wait, we already have that. Well, then we should have voted in the F4U. Oh wait, we already have that. Well, then we should have voted in the Spitfire. Oh wait, we already have that. Well, then we should have voted in the B-17. Oh wait, we already have that. Well, then we should have voted in the FW-190. Oh wait, we already have that. Well, then we should have voted in the P-147. Oh wait, we already have that. Well, then we should have voted in the P-47. Oh wait, we already have that. Well, then we should have voted in the B-26. Oh wait, we already have that. Well, then we should have voted in the LA-7. Oh wait, we already have that. Well, then we should have voted in the Lancaster. Well, then we should have voted in the Yak-9. Oh wait, we already have that. Oh wait, we already have that. Well, then we should have voted in the P-38. Oh wait, we already have that. Well, then we should have voted in the Me-262. Oh wait, we already have that. Well, then we should have voted in the Hurricane. Oh wait, we already have that. Well, then we should have voted in the Ju-88. Oh wait, we already have that. Well, then we should have voted in the Typhoon. Oh wait, we already have that. We should have voted in the C 205. Well, then we should have voted in the A-20. Oh wait, we already have that. Well, then we should have voted in the SBD. Oh wait, we already have that. Well, then we should have voted in the N1K. Oh wait, we already have that. Well, then we should have voted in the LA-5. Oh wait, we already have that.
wow, i had no idea we had so many planes:O!!! but wait where was the ME410 on that long list of planes we already have
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quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by eskimo2
Yea, you’re right. We should have voted in a good plane!
We should have voted in the P-51. Oh wait, we already have that. Well, then we should have voted in the Me-109. Oh wait, we already have that. Well, then we should have voted in the A6M. Oh wait, we already have that. Well, then we should have voted in the F4U. Oh wait, we already have that. Well, then we should have voted in the Spitfire. Oh wait, we already have that. Well, then we should have voted in the B-17. Oh wait, we already have that. Well, then we should have voted in the FW-190. Oh wait, we already have that. Well, then we should have voted in the P-147. Oh wait, we already have that. Well, then we should have voted in the P-47. Oh wait, we already have that. Well, then we should have voted in the B-26. Oh wait, we already have that. Well, then we should have voted in the LA-7. Oh wait, we already have that. Well, then we should have voted in the Lancaster. Well, then we should have voted in the Yak-9. Oh wait, we already have that. Oh wait, we already have that. Well, then we should have voted in the P-38. Oh wait, we already have that. Well, then we should have voted in the Me-262. Oh wait, we already have that. Well, then we should have voted in the Hurricane. Oh wait, we already have that. Well, then we should have voted in the Ju-88. Oh wait, we already have that. Well, then we should have voted in the Typhoon. Oh wait, we already have that. We should have voted in the C 205. Well, then we should have voted in the A-20. Oh wait, we already have that. Well, then we should have voted in the SBD. Oh wait, we already have that. Well, then we should have voted in the N1K. Oh wait, we already have that. Well, then we should have voted in the LA-5. Oh wait, we already have that.
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What I wanna know is, what is the
P-147?
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Originally posted by Lunger
wow, i had no idea we had so many planes:O!!! but wait where was the ME410 on that long list of planes we already have
So AH-II should always add the latest best performing aircraft regardless of how many were made or saw service? Planes that were produced in small numbers should be built before more prominent planes built in larger numbers simply because they are newer and “better” Is AH-II a WWII sim or a 1945 WWII sim?
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Originally posted by FrodeMk3
quote:
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Originally posted by eskimo2
Yea, you’re right. We should have voted in a good plane!
We should have voted in the P-51. Oh wait, we already have that. Well, then we should have voted in the Me-109. Oh wait, we already have that. Well, then we should have voted in the A6M. Oh wait, we already have that. Well, then we should have voted in the F4U. Oh wait, we already have that. Well, then we should have voted in the Spitfire. Oh wait, we already have that. Well, then we should have voted in the B-17. Oh wait, we already have that. Well, then we should have voted in the FW-190. Oh wait, we already have that. Well, then we should have voted in the P-147. Oh wait, we already have that. Well, then we should have voted in the P-47. Oh wait, we already have that. Well, then we should have voted in the B-26. Oh wait, we already have that. Well, then we should have voted in the LA-7. Oh wait, we already have that. Well, then we should have voted in the Lancaster. Well, then we should have voted in the Yak-9. Oh wait, we already have that. Oh wait, we already have that. Well, then we should have voted in the P-38. Oh wait, we already have that. Well, then we should have voted in the Me-262. Oh wait, we already have that. Well, then we should have voted in the Hurricane. Oh wait, we already have that. Well, then we should have voted in the Ju-88. Oh wait, we already have that. Well, then we should have voted in the Typhoon. Oh wait, we already have that. We should have voted in the C 205. Well, then we should have voted in the A-20. Oh wait, we already have that. Well, then we should have voted in the SBD. Oh wait, we already have that. Well, then we should have voted in the N1K. Oh wait, we already have that. Well, then we should have voted in the LA-5. Oh wait, we already have that.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What I wanna know is, what is the
P-147?
You don’t have enough perks for it!
:)
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Originally posted by eskimo2
So AH-II should always add the latest best performing aircraft regardless of how many were made or saw service? Planes that were produced in small numbers should be built before more prominent planes built in larger numbers simply because they are newer and “better” Is AH-II a WWII sim or a 1945 WWII sim?
As far as I know WWII and 1945 WWII were indeed the same war. By all means correct me if I'm wrong. With reduards to newer/better vs mass produced/ lengthy service, both mean little to me. I'm looking for usefull!! The P39 will be useless to those who dont spend all night flying around looking for the odd A6M2 to engage.
If newer planes were the main priority then id fly P51D's and 262's and 190D's. The fact of the matter is I tend to shy awat from those newer planes.
I think most have lost sight of the debate and resorted to petty attempts to insult peoples intelligence . I'm not bagging on thoses that voted for the P39. I am simply saying I think we will all regret this waste of a vote.
I was personally hoping for a KI-44 or the Fiat, because we have quite enough US and German aircraft.
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Originally posted by Lunger
Dont get me wrong, I enjoy early war planes. However the time frame it was used has no bearing in its calibur. I fly the P-40 more in the LWA more than most I know but that means little in the case of the P39. I'm not debating its ability in the war, I am debating its usefullness in the LWA. It will go the way of the Spit I.
The P39 will have a place in the EWA and the FSO. I just tend to agree with those who would liked to have seen a more usefull plane added to the game.
The Spit 1 is tough to get kills in while in the MA because it’s guns are so weak and have no range. Even if you get close the enemy can often accelerate out of range before you dump enough lead into him to kill him. Also, it often takes a long time to die, or bleed to death after being shot up by a Spit-1; someone is bound to steal your kill. Although the Aircobra’s 37 mm has poor ballistics, I’d take that single gun over the Spit-1’s wingfull of 303s. If you get hits, you will get kills. The Yak 9T has a single big gun with better ballistics and 32 rounds. I’ve gotten up to 7 kills in one sortie with just the big gun. Point blank the Aircobra’s 37 mm will be a killer. The P-39D also has 2X50s and the P-39Q has 4X50s. I don’t think anyone has to be sold on the effectiveness of 50 cals.
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Originally posted by Guppy35
Lot's of guys like the challenge of taking and early-midwar bird into latewar and taking on the hotrods.
This 38G driver sure does anyway. Seems to me i see guys flying P40s in latewar, or 109Fs, Zekes or what have you.
Not everyone needs the latest and greatest to compete as their competition is in seeing how they can make the not so late and greatest perform against those uber birds.
And as MWL said, the 39 is a low alt performer where the AH war is fought at. Intercepting bombers at 20K isn't the P39s job. but racing around on the deck is.
Your so right, I cringe when I come across a 38G or an A5 etc in the LW arena, 9/10 times I end up back in the tower in around 5 mins lol.
There's some really good sticks that fly planes like the 38, too many to mention, but I can always tell as when you get up behind them they dissapear and the next thing you are in the tower.
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Originally posted by eskimo2
Point blank the Aircobra’s 37 mm will be a killer. The P-39D also has 2X50s and the P-39Q has 4X50s. I don’t think anyone has to be sold on the effectiveness of 50 cals.
I dont doubt that getting infront of a 37mm is a bad idea anyday of the week. I question its ability to get to the fight. This is the same problem I have with my beloved P40. Depending on how HT models the turning radius and roll characteristics it may prove fatal for most P39s if they are done accurately
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I won't regret a damned thing. I voted for the P-39, and I'll enjoy flying the P-39 if we get it. If we get the B-25 instead, I'll fly it as well, though I don't fly bombers that often. Damned if I'm not sick and tired of the pompous self anointed morons around here telling people what they will and won't enjoy flying. If you don't like the new plane we get, whatever it is, don't fly the damned thing. You won't have ANY LESS CHOICE than you had BEFORE it was added. Later, they might add a plane that YOU want. Then again, they may get sick of listening to you whine and throw a temper tantrum like a two year old that didn't get his sugar tit and decide not to add anything else. (Actually, HTC is far more adult than that, it's just a funny premise).
Reader's Digest Condensed version of 80% of the recent posts:
WWWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HH!!!!!!!!!!!!!
WWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
They didn't vote the the plane I wanted!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The stupid people didn't do what I wanted!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!They'll all be sorry!!!!!!!!!!!! I'll hold my breath!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They won't like the plane they voted for, they're stupid and don't know any better!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
WWWWWWWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Originally posted by Hawco
Your so right, I cringe when I come across a 38G or an A5 etc in the LW arena, 9/10 times I end up back in the tower in around 5 mins lol.
There's some really good sticks that fly planes like the 38, too many to mention, but I can always tell as when you get up behind them they dissapear and the next thing you are in the tower.
I agree with you, many of great pilots do fly the early plans and embarrass me in my spit 9. The unfortunate thing is the majority of pilots in the game (including me) are years away from being good enough to get anything out of the P39
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Originally posted by Lunger
I agree with you, many of great pilots do fly the early plans and embarrass me in my spit 9. The unfortunate thing is the majority of pilots in the game (including me) are years away from being good enough to get anything out of the P39
LOL, know what you mean, I'm about 10 years from being anything like decent, but what the hell, I just fly around and have some fun getting lucky now and again. Think I actually got one of those pesky 38 drivers last week, was realy lucky, guy never saw me coming, even then I nearly mised him lol.
Cheers
Hawco
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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
Damned if I'm not sick and tired of the pompous self anointed morons around here telling people what they will and won't enjoy flying. If you don't like the new plane we get, whatever it is, don't fly the damned thing.
Damned if I'm not sick and tired of the pompous self anointed morons around here telling people what they should and should'nt post. If you don't like the new thread you are reading, whatever it is, don't read the damned thing.
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Can't figure out what the problem is still .... the game is getting a new plane - yay for the player base ... all of it. If HTC had just added the damn plane (ANY plane) like they added the Sherman then would there still be all the *****ing?
Note to HTC ... don't give yourself a headache next time .. just pick a plane out of a hat. Oh .. and thank you for adding more content .. I for one am very happy with whatever gets added.
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Originally posted by Lunger
Damned if I'm not sick and tired of the pompous self anointed morons around here telling people what they should and should'nt post. If you don't like the new thread you are reading, whatever it is, don't read the damned thing.
If you want to post stupid ill informed drivel, be prepared to back it up. Your declaration that the P-39, or the B-25 for that matter, would be unworthy as the next plane added to the game is without legitimate basis. The constant barrage of posts repeating the baseless position is a whining temper tantrum. Since you persist in filling the boards with the tantrum, be prepared for people to call you on it.
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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
If you want to post stupid ill informed drivel, be prepared to back it up. Your declaration that the P-39, or the B-25 for that matter, would be unworthy as the next plane added to the game is without legitimate basis. The constant barrage of posts repeating the baseless position is a whining temper tantrum. Since you persist in filling the boards with the tantrum, be prepared for people to call you on it.
talk about ill informed, your making my point for me!! Quote me please, when I said the B25 and the P39 were unworthy.
seems like someone has the market cornered on trantrums
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your does not equal you are
It's you're
now back to your pursefighting
PS I have no dog in this fight. Good points both sides but spelling you are as your just makes me cringe every time.
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please forgive the lack of puncuation im a paratrooper, not well known for our typing skills
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Ahhh well then I rescind my previous criticism and encourage you to continue to use the spelling previously chosen. ;)
:aok
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<--------owns the run on sentance
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Originally posted by Lunger
I dont doubt that getting infront of a 37mm is a bad idea anyday of the week. I question its ability to get to the fight. This is the same problem I have with my beloved P40. Depending on how HT models the turning radius and roll characteristics it may prove fatal for most P39s if they are done accurately
The P-40B is less of an airplane than the P-39D in many respects. I haven’t flown at all since Tour 66. In that Tour, however, I had a KD of 13:4 in the P-40B, in Tour 65 it was 25:11. If I can get kills in the slower, worse climbing P-40, many should do very well in the P-39D with its additional 37mm. If the P-39Q is modeled it’ll do even better. It’s not an awesome plane, it won’t even own the Early War Arena, but it will be killing and dying with the majority of them.
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I've never spent alot of time in the P40B, and I hope that we are all pleasantly supprised by the P39. I just have many reservations. If widewing is correct that the service celling for the 39 is roughly 15k and I think this will be a major weekness, due to the high number of NASA pilots in the game. Down low will it keep up with all of the great turn and burn aircraft. It just seems that no matter what scenerao I think of, I cant find a role that another plane would'nt be better. Which goes back to Bonks statement its not the plane its the Pilot. For those of us who are only OK pilots at best the plane does help even the odds a little.
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I would fly for weeks at a time without even hitting 10K in a fighter. At any given time the majority of aircraft in an arena are below 10K.
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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
Damned if I'm not sick and tired of the pompous self anointed morons around here telling people what they will and won't enjoy flying.
Couldn't agree more.
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Originally posted by Lunger
talk about ill informed, your making my point for me!! Quote me please, when I said the B25 and the P39 were unworthy.
seems like someone has the market cornered on trantrums
Here is YOUR point, and I QUOTE YOUR posts on it:
Lunger said:
As far as I know WWII and 1945 WWII were indeed the same war. By all means correct me if I'm wrong. With reduards to newer/better vs mass produced/ lengthy service, both mean little to me. I'm looking for usefull!! The P39 will be useless to those who dont spend all night flying around looking for the odd A6M2 to engage.
If newer planes were the main priority then id fly P51D's and 262's and 190D's. The fact of the matter is I tend to shy awat from those newer planes.
I think most have lost sight of the debate and resorted to petty attempts to insult peoples intelligence . I'm not bagging on thoses that voted for the P39. I am simply saying I think we will all regret this waste of a vote.
I was personally hoping for a KI-44 or the Fiat, because we have quite enough US and German aircraft.
Note the BOLD text in the DIRECT quote of your posted drivel.
Again, Lunger drivels more useless Bravo Sierra:
I cant wait to see how many people abandon this thought when their stats fall through the floor. Its just a matter of, how long will their pride keep getting them killed in a P39 before they admit they made a mistake, and wasted a vote.
Ain't it cool how your own words come back to prove how little you understand what you said, never mind what you are talking about?
Let's see. We were voting on a plane to be added. And you claim a vote for the P-39 is a wasted vote. Pretty much makes the P-39 unworthy of a vote, and as such, unworthy of being added to the game. At least, that's the story according to the crap you spewed about in this thread.
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I voted for p-39, cause the name sounds cool.:D
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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
Here is YOUR point, and I QUOTE YOUR posts on it:
Lunger said:
Note the BOLD text in the DIRECT quote of your posted drivel.
Again, Lunger drivels more useless Bravo Sierra:
Ain't it cool how your own words come back to prove how little you understand what you said, never mind what you are talking about?
Let's see. We were voting on a plane to be added. And you claim a vote for the P-39 is a wasted vote. Pretty much makes the P-39 unworthy of a vote, and as such, unworthy of being added to the game. At least, that's the story according to the crap you spewed about in this thread.
once again you seem to have missed the point, I asked you to quote me saying that i thought they were unworthy. seeing you could not do that you patch togeather a bunch of posts trying to make some sense of your own arguement(failed again). Nice try, you must live by the old addage if you cant dazzle with the truth then baffle them with BS.
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its a bit of a shame that after 3 hours of racking your brain that was the best you could come up with:lol
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Originally posted by Lunger
I agree with you, many of great pilots do fly the early plans and embarrass me in my spit 9. The unfortunate thing is the majority of pilots in the game (including me) are years away from being good enough to get anything out of the P39
Who's fault is that really?
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nobodys fault just a statement about how many of the best pilots fly early war planes.
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Originally posted by Lunger
its a bit of a shame that after 3 hours of racking your brain that was the best you could come up with:lol
I took about 2 minutes to quote your posts stating a vote for the P-39 was a wasted vote. I wouldn't waste 3 hours on you. You can't even muster the courage and dignity to stand behind your own statements. I missed the point? Not hardly. The point is on your head. Empty as it is, at least it has a sharp point. Which is more than can be said for your argument and your position.
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Lunger,
Captain Virgil Hilts post was spot on.
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first my courage is nothing you should attack without knowing the man. If that is the route you need to go with your arguement then you are already beaten.
I told you to quote me saying the P39 was not worthy. I knew you could not do this because I knew I didnt say it. So, you then attempted to interperate my posts innorder to validate your arguement. still no proof I said it was "unworthy".
Now you are attempting to attack my character from the safty of your computer desk.
I ask you who is the Coward. its time for you to do a little introspective.
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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
I took about 2 minutes to quote your posts stating a vote for the P-39 was a wasted vote. I wouldn't waste 3 hours on you. You can't even muster the courage and dignity to stand behind your own statements. I missed the point? Not hardly. The point is on your head. Empty as it is, at least it has a sharp point. Which is more than can be said for your argument and your position.
Agree.
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Originally posted by Lunger
first my courage is nothing you should attack without knowing the man. If that is the route you need to go with your arguement then you are already beaten.
I told you to quote me saying the P39 was not worthy. I knew you could not do this because I knew I didnt say it. So, you then attempted to interperate my posts innorder to validate your arguement. still no proof I said it was "unworthy".
Now you are attempting to attack my character from the safty of your computer desk.
I ask you who is the Coward. its time for you to do a little introspective.
Did I not quote you DIRECTLY? I did. Did I edit your words? I did not.
Did you or did you not say a vote for the P-39 was a wasted vote? That leaves no room for error. Or, do you wish to try to wiggle your way out of it? Explain to us how a vote for the P-39 being a wasted vote can mean anything other than the plane isn't worthy of being added to the game.
Either the plane is worthy of adding to the game, and a vote for it is a well placed vote, or the plane is not worthy of adding to the game and a vote for it is wasted. You can't have it both ways.
I do not care to know you. You obviously are lacking in what it takes to make any defense of your statements. You said it, but you won't acknowledge or support it.
I can assure you that any reply I make to you on these bulletin boards I would make in person. Quite willingly, and without hesitation.
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One more chance big guy quote me saying "the P39 and the B25 are unworthy" you cant because i didnt say it!! I did say and I do beleive that it is a wasted vote and will be a hanger queen but before you say that I've said something do a little research and less assumption.
you know what they say about assumption "it makes an A** out of you and umption!!!"
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Originally posted by Lunger
One more chance big guy quote me saying "the P39 and the B25 are unworthy" you cant because i didnt say it!! I did say and I do beleive that it is a wasted vote and will be a hanger queen but before you say that I've said something do a little research and less assumption.
you know what they say about assumption "it makes an A** out of you and umption!!!"
I quoted you repeatedly. You said a vote for the P-39 is a wasted vote. That can have no other meaning than the plane is not worthy of being added. Twist and spin however you want, since you cannot make an adequate defense of your argument, that's all you can do. I'm done with you. You have no defense of your position, and you resort to silly innuendo and attempts at diversion. Blather on all you want, I've proven my point. You ain't worth the effort.
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Ok so like I thought but you obviously dont have the courage or intestinal fortitude to admit I never said the P39 or the B25 was unworthy. its about time:aok
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syn·o·nym
–noun 1. a word having the same or nearly the same meaning as another in the language, as joyful, elated, glad.
2. a word or expression accepted as another name for something, as Arcadia for pastoral simplicity; metonym.
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By my count:
Captain Virgil Hilts: 4
Lunger: 0
Feel free to check my math. ;)
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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
I quoted you repeatedly. You said a vote for the P-39 is a wasted vote. That can have no other meaning than the plane is not worthy of being added. Twist and spin however you want [snip]
Savage,
I guess it's like calling you a prevaricator--but he never said you were a liar.:confused:
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Originally posted by Magellan
Savage,
I guess it's like calling you a prevaricator--but he never said you were a liar.:confused:
It depends on what your definition of "said" is. :D
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Originally posted by Lunger
Ok so like I thought but you obviously dont have the courage or intestinal fortitude to admit I never said the P39 or the B25 was unworthy. its about time:aok
Wow, is your arm tired of shoveling watermelon yet?
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I'm not the least bit tired of watching this guy attempt to convince himself that he knows what hes talking about. I could do this all day.
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The bottom line is I would love to see every possible WWII airframe in AHII. thats why I know I never said it was unworthy, but if we have to have only 1 id like to see something more usefull for everyone. So take a little time and look back at the posts and tell me when I bagged on people for voting for the P39 or said it was unwothy. you cant because I HAVENT SAID IT. Better choice = unworthy i dont think so.. try another route.
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Originally posted by Lunger
I'm not the least bit tired of watching this guy attempt to convince himself that he knows what hes talking about. I could do this all day.
Dude, you are in over your head.
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lol....drivel.
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Lunger,
You are all by yourself man.
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Originally posted by Lunger
I'm not the least bit tired of watching this guy attempt to convince himself that he knows what hes talking about. I could do this all day.
(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c62/Masherbrum/alcoholhug-1.jpg)
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None of this matters.
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Does it really matter what plane we get? Whether it be the P-39 or the Mitchell, the end result is going to be the same. Any new plane that gets added is just going to be fodder for the Lightning.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by Masherbrum
This is WORD FOR WORD, what I do daily. I shoot down LWA birds with Spit 1's, Ki61's, or P38G's. I NEED a challenge. Upping an La7 and landing 7 kills to ME, is not a challenge.
Oh come on Masher.....you know its a riot to fly a LaCheesy and when that Spixteen comes diving in on you, pull a lag roll and pop him with those 3 B-20's as he flys right by. :D
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Originally posted by Elfie
Oh come on Masher.....you know its a riot to fly a LaCheesy and when that Spixteen comes diving in on you, pull a lag roll and pop him with those 3 B-20's as he flys right by. :D
Only time I'll usually roll an La7, is when a base is near the threshold of being overrun. My favorite kills are when the Cons get "cocky" and turn in front of me, misjudging my airspeed. Yer shot down within 400 of me in one 10 times out of 10.