Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: eskimo2 on April 06, 2007, 09:07:42 AM
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Seriously, we think favorably of the P-40 even though it was no match for many of the Japanese planes it fought against. General Chennault was brilliant and trained his Flying Tigers to take every advantage they could. The Warhawk is considered a great airplane mostly due to the AVG’s smart tactics. Aviation buffs are willing to recognize that its weaknesses were mostly due to it being a pre-war early design.
But what if the Flying Tigers had been supplied with Aircobras instead of Warhawks? Every version of the P-39 was faster than the fasted P-40 variant. Would the Aircobra’s 37 mm gun been effective against the bombers that the Flying Tigers regularly attacked? Would it’s Canon and bomb option been valuable in ground attack? Was it any less of a plane?
P-40B & P-39D Comparisons:
First Order & Delivery Date:
P-39D - 9/1940 – 4/41
P-40B - 9/1940 – 3/41
Maximum Speed:
P-39D - 368 mph
P-40B - 352 mph
Speed for Max Endurance
P-39D - 195 mph
P-40B - 188 mph
Landing Speed
P-39D - 82 mph
P-40B - 72.5
Climb in 1 Minute
P-39D - 3,750
P-40B - 2,860
Service Ceiling
P-39D - 32,100
P-40B - 32,750
Maximum Range
P-39D - 1,545 miles
P-40B - 1,400 miles
Armament
P-39D - 1 X 37mm Canon, 2 X 50 Cal. mg, 4 X 30 Cal. mg, 1 X 500 lbs bomb
P-40B - 2 X 50 Cal. mg, 4 X 30 Cal. mg
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I read somewhere (and given all the reading I do that could be anywhere) that the P-39 was a spiffy little airplane until the penguins at Write-Patterson loaded it full of armor and other bits that made it a dog. Had they left the design alone it would have been a fast, nimble death trap.
OBVIOUSLY they needed to use transparent aluminum rather than old sections of submarine hull for the armor.
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I read some first hand accounts of the Flying Tigers in action. One of the pilots said he could barely get his P-40 to climb above 23,000 feet.
On one particular mission, a flight of P-40s climbed to their maximum height, right around 23,000 feet, while Japanese fighters attacked dummy airplanes on the airfield below. After the Japanese fighters expended their ammunition and used up their fuel, the P-40s dove down and destroyed them.
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Originally posted by AquaShrimp
I read some first hand accounts of the Flying Tigers in action. One of the pilots said he could barely get his P-40 to climb above 23,000 feet.
On one particular mission, a flight of P-40s climbed to their maximum height, right around 23,000 feet, while Japanese fighters attacked dummy airplanes on the airfield below. After the Japanese fighters expended their ammunition and used up their fuel, the P-40s dove down and destroyed them.
I can hear the AVG radio now:
“Huh huh huh… Retards!”
“Yea! Yea! Retards!”
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Originally posted by eskimo2
Seriously, we think favorably of the P-40 even though it was no match for many of the Japanese planes it fought against.
It's not like the P-40 gets a lot of use in the MAs. I think everybody knows that the P-40 is a sub par aircraft.
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Who thinks favorably of the P-40?
(http://www.mysmiley.net/imgs/smile/happy/happy0157.gif)
Its more popularized I agree but most people think its crap.
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The P-39 advanced to the final round. We may well get to find out how it will do in the MA.:)
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P-40 is a dog and the b version is the worst plane in the game.
WTG on the p-39, it will not be used.
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ya it's subpar, but I like it. It isn't as bad as everyone believes. It is actually more fun to fly in the LW arena since in the early war and mid war there are more Zeros and the like in the air, which are it's nemesis - faster AND better turning.
I may make next campain an exclusive P-40 month just to see how "bad" it really is...unless we get the P-39 sooner, in which case I'll be lobbing the BFG shells like I am this camp in the Yak-9T. Yes I know the ballistics on the P-39 cannon are reported to be inferior. Just get in close and fly through the debris :)
To the point of this thread - the P-39 couldn't even stay with a P-40 as far as effective service ceiling. The bombers would have just flown higher than it could go...
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Originally posted by Yippee38
It's not like the P-40 gets a lot of use in the MAs. I think everybody knows that the P-40 is a sub par aircraft.
I think it’s safe to say that the P-40B is the worst fighter on the menu. Its poor rate of climb does it in.
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Originally posted by Spongebob
I may make next campain an exclusive P-40 month just to see how "bad" it really is...unless we get the P-39 sooner, in which case I'll be lobbing the BFG shells like I am this camp in the Yak-9T. Yes I know the ballistics on the P-39 cannon are reported to be inferior. Just get in close and fly through the debris :)
Worse ballistics than the Yak-9T?! I don't believe it!
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Very nice book written by a real P-39 pilot in New Guinea 1942
Angels Twenty by Edwards Park
# ISBN-10: 0075821257
# ISBN-13: 978-0075821250
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The P-39 is no slouch. While it's not a Spit or a Mustang it was just fine vs 190's and 109's below 15k in the African & Med. Theatre for the USAAF.
Extract from General Orders No. 86, War Department, Washington, D.C. 8 November 1944;"
"...citation of the following unit... is confirmed... in the name of the President of the United States as public evidence of deserved honor and distinction. The citation reads as follow:"
"The 350th Fighter Group is cited for outstanding performance of duty in action against the enemy in the Mediterranean Theatre of Operations on 6 April 1944. ......Although assigned exclusively to air defense and reconnaissance because its battle-worn and outmoded aircraft were considered dangerously inferior to enemy fighters, this group, realizing that certain primary targets could be effectively covered only by its own airplanes, voluntarily assumed full responsibility for this coverage. Of their own volition and in addition to their designated duties, personnel within the Group converted P-39 Aircraft into fighter bombers......"
".......While flying 10 missions, comprising 75 sorties, on this day the group, in the face of intense antiaircraft fire, destroyed 1 highway bridge and 2 railroad bridges, 2 air warning installation, 1 barracks building and 2 trucks, and inflicted many casualties on enemy personnel and heavy damage on numerous other military buildings and vehicles. Just as one flight of six P-39 dive bombers was completing an attack on enemy communications in the Grosseto-Pisa area, they were intercepted by 10 or more ME-109's and FW-190's. Gallantly ignoring the odds against them, and despite damage to their own aircraft, the P-39 pilots unhesitatingly turned into the larger hostile formation and attacked with such skill and determination that five enemy fighters were shot down, two were damaged and the remainder driven from the battle area. Elsewhere on the same day, elements of the 350th FG maintained vigilant fighter protection throughout their assigned areas, vigorously turning back enemy attacks upon Allied installations along the eastern Coasts of Corsica and Sardinia......"
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Originally posted by FX1
P-40 is a dog and the b version is the worst plane in the game.
WTG on the p-39, it will not be used.
The CM Team has been asking for the P39 since 2001.
Trust me.. it WILL be used.
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Originally posted by APDrone
The CM Team has been asking for the P39 since 2001.
Trust me.. it WILL be used.
It just won't win.
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You should put in print that you'll eat your hat if it does :p
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The very fact that the Soviets loved it as THE premiere fighter of the Eastern Front, before the Lavochkins and Yaks evolved enough to become the uber planes, itself warrants attention IMO.
Urah, P-39N!
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I could see use for it in special events. I dont fly in special events and it will be eaten alive in main.
P-40E is a fun ride...
Look at the k4 only reason why you dont see more in the air is because of the ammo load out. The yaks are the same. Both are great fights but with small round counts they dont get used.
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Originally posted by eskimo2
Seriously, we think favorably of the P-40 even though it was no match for many of the Japanese planes it fought against. General Chennault was brilliant and trained his Flying Tigers to take every advantage they could. The Warhawk is considered a great airplane mostly due to the AVG’s smart tactics. Aviation buffs are willing to recognize that its weaknesses were mostly due to it being a pre-war early design.
The P-40 was a very capable fighter, with significant advantages over the enemy planes they faced, which Chennault correctly exploited. AVG to my knowledge rarely if ever faced the Japanese A6M2 "Zero" in combat, and it's most significant rival was the much less capable Ki-43. The P-40 was easy to service, tough, and fantasticly good at energy fighting compared to its rivals. The P-40 was the proper plane for the AVG to use in the harsh environment of the Far Eastern jungles. I do not dispute that the P-39 has better performance, but total cost including maintenance I am sure made the P-40 the plane of choice for the struggling Chinese. It was hardly a piece of crap plane, and in many ways superior to the Japanese planes it faced.
It can be argued that the flight models of this game are not completely accruate, but if they are even close to accurate, I would conclude that the P-40 would be my plane of choice against all versions of the A6M based on my experience. It has the ability to choose its fights, and leave a fight if it needs to. This is a very important advantage that the A6M does not enjoy. It dives better, and it holds on to its energy longer, allowing it to escape, and operate better in anything other than 1 vs. 1 engagements.
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Originally posted by tedrbr
It just won't win.
It might win.... We have more fighter jocks than bomber jocks.
I'd guess the odds are 60/40 in favor of the P-39.
As I said when this first began, the P-39 and B-25 would be the final choices as these are the most recognized of the lot.
My regards,
Widewing
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The p-39 will do just fine in the LWA. It's a very good fighter at lower alt's and was prefered by many soviet aces over the La-5FN and La-7. It also held its oen in the Pacific. It's primary use was in port Morseby (sp?) where it was defending against bombers/zekes coming over the mountains at 20k or more. It had to up with little warning and climb into the attacks...even so the P-39s inflicted hvy losses and actually did a better job then the spitVII's that replaced them....
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Not likely.
Much of it's bad rep was because it had a tendancy toward killing it's own pilots.
Don't give me a P-39; the engine is mounted behind
She'll tumble and roll, and she'll bore a deep hole
Don't give me a P-39
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Originally posted by humble
The p-39 will do just fine in the LWA. It's a very good fighter at lower alt's and was prefered by many soviet aces over the La-5FN and La-7. It also held its oen in the Pacific. It's primary use was in port Morseby (sp?) where it was defending against bombers/zekes coming over the mountains at 20k or more. It had to up with little warning and climb into the attacks...even so the P-39s inflicted hvy losses and actually did a better job then the spitVII's that replaced them....
Spitfire VII's eh? :rolleyes:
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It will all depend on how HTC models it. I bet there will be a few people who will get really good in the P-39.
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Originally posted by eskimo2
I can hear the AVG radio now:
“Huh huh huh… Retards!”
“Yea! Yea! Retards!”
and if the Japanese had radios, you'd hear on Channel 200:
Japanese pilot: BINGO! I'M RTB!
Japanese pilot: WTF! I said I was BINGO!
ack-ack
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Originally posted by humble
The p-39 will do just fine in the LWA.
No, it won't.
Originally posted by humble
..was prefered by many soviet aces over the La-5FN and La-7.
No, it wasn't.
Originally posted by humble
It also held its oen in the Pacific.
No, it didn't.
And I still vote for the P-39.
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I think it’s safe to say that the P-40B is the worst fighter on the menu. Its poor rate of climb does it in.
:huh i killed 2 spit16`s with it last night
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"we think favorably of the P-40 even though it was no match for many of the Japanese planes it fought against"
Thats mythology.
A P-40B or P-40E was more than capable of fighting early war IJAAF a/c. Just because they had to adjust their tactics doesnt make them inferior.
...and the AVG was by no means the only Allied unit to do well in P-40s vs the Japanese.
Would it have had a "better reputation" (re: P-39 and the AVG), sure, I guess , but you are talking "fame" not reality. Famous doesn't equal ability. My answer is "so what if it would have been?" doesnt change the a/c ability.
The short answer is "yes". It would have been remembered more favorably.
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Originally posted by Yippee38
It's not like the P-40 gets a lot of use in the MAs. I think everybody knows that the P-40 is a sub par aircraft.
sub-par compared to what??? Against planes of it's own era it does quite well. Are you comparing it to a Fw190d9? ...or Spit16?? ...or are you comparing it against the planes it actually fought like Ki-27's? ...Ki-43's?
Bf109e's?? ....Bf110c's??
I'm sorry...I thought i was playing a game populated by fans of WW2 avation....i didn't realse that all that matters is how a plane does in the stupid LWA? .....what a joke
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I guess he was comparing it to the 1945 aircraft. :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Helm
sub-par compared to what??? Against planes of it's own era it does quite well. Are you comparing it to a Fw190d9? ...or Spit16?? ...or are you comparing it against the planes it actually fought like Ki-27's? ...Ki-43's?
Bf109e's?? ....Bf110c's??
I'm sorry...I thought i was playing a game populated by fans of WW2 avation....i didn't realse that all that matters is how a plane does in the stupid LWA? .....what a joke
Helm, the only thing they worry about is "Camping", "Vultching" and "landing 2 kills in an La7 and acting like they pwn the AH arenas". The one's most upset are those "lost" in the "first three rounds of elections". So, since that happened, we must whine, cry, piss and moan until they state the same statements until they are "finally accepted".
BTW, get back in Nazgul. We're sporting 5-7 guys most nights now Helm.