Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Pyro on April 06, 2007, 10:01:38 AM
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The final round of voting has begun. The A-26 was eliminated in the last round leaving the B-25 and P-39 in the finals. Voting will continue through Monday morning.
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Originally posted by Pyro
The final round of voting has begun. The A-26 was eliminated in the last round leaving the B-25 and P-39 in the finals. Voting will continue through Monday morning.
Wow, the P-39 advanced ahead of the A26! Thanks for update Pyro.
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:( :( :( :cry :cry :cry
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Winner is going to be the early war B-25 by popular vote, name recognition, and belief it will be spawnable from a CV.
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...simultaneously with the new patch, containing the Firefly, some new textures, and 10 new or remodeled aircraft, thus ensuring Skuzzy will need to buy a 512TB NAS to store all the posts...
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Originally posted by tedrbr
Winner is going to be the early war B-25 by popular vote, name recognition, and belief it will be spawnable from a CV.
Didn't they toss their guns to get them off the carrier?
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Come on P39! No more american bombers!
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B25H or G..which ever.
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Doesn't matter they tossed guns, and cut out all the armor plating.
Doesn't matter Doolittles' bombers were B-25B's with 2,000 lbs bomb carrying capability.
Doesn't matter than the B-25 is slower than the B-26 in the game now and carries less ordnance.
Doesn't matter that it's been stated that B-25's in-game will not spawn on carriers.
It's what is going to carry the popular vote based on name recognition. Ben Affleck fan club wins. It won't come down to a fighter, just because it's a fighter, because there would not have been two American bombers in the second to last round, if popular vote was going that way.
Now, will AHII get the:
B-25B for EW?
B-25C/D for EW/MW?
B-25 G/H/J for MW/LW with 75mm cannon?
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I woulda lost good money betting on the A-26 to make the final.
I like the P-39s chances much better against the B-25 tho, as the guys voting for the A26 will likely NOT vote for a lumbering ox such as the B-25. I' counting on their votes going to the AirCobra.
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BTW, the final looks to be a very tight race.
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Hoping for a P39N of 16IAP 9GIAD
The quintissential P39 skin IMO.
Pokryshkins mount
(http://avia-hobby.ru/publ/sovaces/color/LL/Pokryshkin_P39N.jpg)
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Tilt - by all means keep posting kool pictures of the P-39. It has to help :)
Got any depictions of a Rusky ace smokin' a Farkin' Wulf or something?
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Wow. The A-26 dopped out. Now that's a bet I lost for sure.
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Let's have a little speculation on the possible models of the P-39 if indeed it wins...
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Originally posted by Pyro
BTW, the final looks to be a very tight race.
Hope you will show us results of all rounds in percents after final vote?
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Originally posted by Tilt
Hoping for a P39N of 16IAP 9GIAD
The quintissential P39 skin IMO.
Pokryshkins mount
Gotta be our old AW buddie Earl Miller's 345th FS, 350th FG MTO 39 as the default Tilt. Flew 39s until August 44 from North Africa up through Italy before finally converting to Jugs in late August 44.
Eloise has to be the quintissential P39 skin :)
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/169_1096612092_eloise1.jpg)
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Heres a toast to the P39 hoping it makes it into the game. "Clink"
B25 would be cool too, but we certainly prefer the P39.
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Originally posted by Oleg
Hope you will show us results of all rounds in percents after final vote?
I could do that.
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And names of those who voted us bombers.And their addresses if possible.
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^^
:rofl
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The two most important P-39 versions were the D and Q. Half of the P-39s made were the Q, which traded the 30 Cal. wing guns for 50 Cal. wing guns. The D was important because it’s what we had in service when the war started.
I’d bet D and/or Q.
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A26 made it further than i thought it would, hope it gets added in the future. I'm not sure which of these two i want to vote for, maybe we get a tie and get both. :D
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Originally posted by Guppy35
Gotta be our old AW buddie Earl Miller's 345th FS, 350th FG MTO 39 as the default Tilt.
No it doesn't. VVS was by far the primary operator.
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Is that an oversized spinner? Look how little room there is between the prop and the ground and its on grass no less, wonder how many props got bent while taxiing? :confused:
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Originally posted by Wmaker
No it doesn't. VVS was by far the primary operator.
It's a good thing that the skins can be changed in game eh?
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Originally posted by VWE
Is that an oversized spinner? Look how little room there is between the prop and the ground and its on grass no less, wonder how many props got bent while taxiing? :confused:
My father in law flew the P-39. He said taxiing was like driving a car, much better visibility. The front wheel was so close to the prop it would be pretty hard to hit anything on the ground with it.
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Either one will be fun. Which is the name of the game[/b].
hap
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Originally posted by tedrbr
Doesn't matter they tossed guns, and cut out all the armor plating.
Doesn't matter Doolittles' bombers were B-25B's with 2,000 lbs bomb carrying capability.
Doesn't matter than the B-25 is slower than the B-26 in the game now and carries less ordnance.
Doesn't matter that it's been stated that B-25's in-game will not spawn on carriers.
It's what is going to carry the popular vote based on name recognition. Ben Affleck fan club wins. It won't come down to a fighter, just because it's a fighter, because there would not have been two American bombers in the second to last round, if popular vote was going that way.
Now, will AHII get the:
B-25B for EW?
B-25C/D for EW/MW?
B-25 G/H/J for MW/LW with 75mm cannon?
tedrbr,
I respect you for your skills in FS modeling and your normally restrained BBS attitude, but man, lately you've been getting so peevish it's really hard to read your posts. Let it go, bro. Please take a break or something, you're really running this into the ground.
I have been voting for the B-25 and I hate Ben Affleck, and I have no desire to fly one off a carrier.
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Originally posted by scottydawg
tedrbr,
I respect you for your skills in FS modeling and your normally restrained BBS attitude, but man, lately you've been getting so peevish it's really hard to read your posts. Let it go, bro. Please take a break or something, you're really running this into the ground.
I have been voting for the B-25 and I hate Ben Affleck, and I have no desire to fly one off a carrier.
He cannot let it go. He'll whine, piss and moan because he is a petty person.
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After all this voting is over, how long until the winner is added to the game? (Yes, I know - 2 weeks! Ha ha , very funny - you'd think you guys would be sick of that standard reply by now. . . )
Will the next one added after that be # 2, then #3, etc? After all, it would be been nice to have them all in the game, right?
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(http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/7160/yawn8hm.jpg)
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Pretty boring selections...
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What a terrible waste... to be left with two POS planes like that...
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I demand a recount ! BOOOOOO!!!! HISSSSSSSSSS!!!!!
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Originally posted by Guppy35
Eloise has to be the quintissential P39 skin :)
[]
Eloise may tug a few heart strings but she aint no quintissential P39.
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Originally posted by Hap
Either one will be fun. Which is the name of the game.
hap [/B]
I'm with Hap, whichever we get will be a good choice :)
It is unfortunate that so many make a positive a negative in
here...but as Moggy used to say "Some will cry if you get em all laid"
:D
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Originally posted by Karash
Pretty boring selections...
++
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Originally posted by Wmaker
No it doesn't. VVS was by far the primary operator.
Yeah but Earl is the only 39 driver I actually know :)
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the PBY wasn't even in the selection, and i still haven't got any napalm.
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(http://ipmsstockholm.org/magazine/2003/05/images/profile_p39_07.jpg)
(http://ipmsstockholm.org/magazine/2003/05/images/profile_p39_06.jpg)
(http://ipmsstockholm.org/magazine/2003/05/images/profile_p39_01.jpg)
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Originally posted by Rino
as Moggy used to say "Some will cry if you get em all laid"
:D
So true. And they say women are hard to please.
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For any of you firefighters out there, just want to point out that American LaFrance made the nose gear for the Airacobra... :cool:
And this will be Corky's first flight in it.
(http://www.pacificwrecks.com/aircraft/p-39/41-6951/P39_queensland_beck_salvage.jpg)
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Hmm...
Didn't Pyro mention earlier how much fun he was going to have modelling the 75mm in the B-25? So if this variant is going to be in; how do you think it's going to work? I would really love being able to defend against GV's by upping this beast after they pork ord at a base. Gets old smoking a tank/flak turret with your Hurri IID while every Green Con in range starts straffing with .50's and .303's in order to grab the kill as the GV madly races for supplies or a safe spot to .ef .
Would be neat to put a 75MM into those annoying Flak's parked on the concrete who exit flight the moment they hear the bombs falling. I've wasted megatons of ordinance on AA vehicles parked on a runway or hangar pad who have their .ef cued up in order to avoid dying when I toss a 1000lb GP bomb at their hatch.
If it wins of course...I'm totally floored that the 'vader didn't make it in. I was kinda hoping for it to hit with a mild perk like the -4 hog or something to let me burn some bomber perkies in.
*Edit* Ahh... found the thread where they were talking about modeling the 75mm with 20 round racks in it; manual loading like a panzer with a similar rate of fire. Wonder if it's going to have a special sight for it...
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Out of the entire list of planes presented for vote both the P-39 and B-25 are the only ones that fill any hole in the current plane set. It's re-assuring to see them both in the final.
How about HTC scrap the vote and do both..? It's been a while since a multi-engined aircraft was added and the game is long over due for a P-39.
With 3 variants the P-39 hole could be completely closed - P-39D, P-39N-1, P-39Q-5.
What will it take..? Bribes..?
or is this all a big scam and all the above planes in the list will show up at once..?
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The Pe-2/Tu-2 and Ki-43 also plugged holes, but they went out in the first round.
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B-25! I can be like Ben Afflict and win BOB on first mishun in my amurican spitfire, then, like, fly B-25 bomber on next mishun! Oooh. Actually, have voted for Yak 3, then the 39. 'course I don't know anything, AKnot killed me 2 or 3 times last nite in his PEE 40. (Sigh)
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Originally posted by Karnak
The Pe-2/Tu-2 and Ki-43 also plugged holes, but they went out in the first round.
True but those planes didn't serve in every theater of the war. The B-25 and P-39 fill a larger hole.
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vote B-25!!
(http://www.youngeagles.org/wallpaper/b25_wallpaper1280.jpg)
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Originally posted by Karnak
The Pe-2/Tu-2 and Ki-43 also plugged holes, but they went out in the first round.
No they didn't the Tu-2 was a very late war plane completely insignificant.
The Pe-2 (depending on the variant) would have been useful but without the rest of the plane set to go with it - then big deal (and I have argued for the Pe-2 over the years). The VVS used the B-25 as well and along with the A-20C / Boston it can fill whatever whole there was for a Pe-2 for now.
B-25 - Familiarization with its construction, mastery [by Soviet pilots], and employment, based on the combat experience of 14th Guards Bomber Air Division and 4th Guards Air Corps (http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/english/articles/ratkin/index.htm)
The B-25 Mitchell in the USSR (http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/english/articles/akvilyanov/index.htm)
The Ki-43 doesn't fill any whole - it's just a spoonful of dirt into the canyon that is Japanese aircraft.
The P-39 and B-25 were used everywhere by every major allied nation - not only the US - that's a truck load of 'filling' compared to any other plane or planes on the list.
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Small Ground clearance between prop and ground causes nasty nose-overs/ground-looping while high speed taxi-ing and landing and it can also occur on take-off if too much down elev is applied.
I VOTE
B-25 MITCHELL
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W00T VOTE B-25
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Originally posted by kc2kfq
Small Ground clearance between prop and ground causes nasty nose-overs/ground-looping while high speed taxi-ing and landing and it can also occur on take-off if too much down elev is applied.
I VOTE
B-25 MITCHELL
Nose-over with a tricycle gear P-39? I live with a P-39 pilot; he said the P-39 was the easiest plane to taxi that he flew. He has time in: PT-19s, BT-13s, AT-6s, P-39s, P-63s, RP-63s, a SBD, AT-11s, B-25s and B-17s.
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Originally posted by Karnak
The Pe-2/Tu-2 and Ki-43 also plugged holes, but they went out in the first round.
Silly. Only American holes count! What were you thinking?!
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Originally posted by VWE
Is that an oversized spinner? Look how little room there is between the prop and the ground and its on grass no less, wonder how many props got bent while taxiing? :confused:
Very few. The nose gear went a long way to prevent that :D
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Thanks for pointing that out eskimo, I never considered the nose gear. I was primarily thinking toward the over controlling aggresive AH flyers. (like me)
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Im glad to see the Beavis and Butthead choice didnt make it to the final round.
There is hope yet...
Either of the two finals actually add something to the game, although I still would have preffered a Russian or Japanese made a/c.
Disagree with you on the Ki-43 Bruno, my philosophy is "you have to start somewhere" when it comes to the earlier birds?, at some point we need to see the 1942-3 PTO a/c get filled out. Of course, I have no illusions on the ranting such an addition will always cause, cuz its not a 1945-hardly-flew-uber-bird with 6 cannons that some 10 year old player has a model of.
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Originally posted by Bruno
It's re-assuring to see them both in the final.
Agreed.
Neither were a bit-player nor a gimmick plane. One of the best outcomes possible for the final round IMHO.
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So, how much time between declaring the winner and the plane being released to the game? 2 weeks?
:D
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The Ki-43 doesn't fill any whole - it's just a spoonful of dirt into the canyon that is Japanese aircraft.
The Ki-43 was the most widely-used Army fighter, and equipped 30 sentai (groups) and 12 chutais (squadrons). The first version, Mark I, entered service in 1941, the Mark II in December 1942, the II-Kai in June 1943, and the Mark IIIa in the summer of 1944.
The total production of the Ki-43 was 5,919 aircraft.
This is the plane that the Flying Tigers went up against. The Zero was the main ride of the IJN and the Ki-43 was the primary army fighter.
IMHO this plane was as big a hole as the P-39. I just want the AirCobra 'cause I'm a Yank and we can't get two planes :) (or can we?)
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Originally posted by Lye-El
Didn't they toss their guns to get them off the carrier?
Since no one else answered this yet, I will.
They did in fact toss out the guns, armor plate and any thing else they could pry lose. However, it wasn't so that they could get them off the deck. Takeoffs had already been practiced to ensure the B-25's would get airborne off the short decks of a carrier.
The stuff was tossed because the Hornet had been spotted by a Japanese vessel and the best option was decided to be, launch early with as many spare gas cans as possible. In order to do that and still achieve flight at the end of the deck, some things had to get tossed.
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The idea of not carrying most of the MGs was made prior to the cruise. They left on the Hornet with a crew of Pilot, Co-pilot, Navigator, Flight Engineer/Gunner Bombardier/Gunner. No tail guns, no side guns. They put wooden guns in the tail before the ship left port, not after.
Range was a problem and they knew that in the planning stages, weeks before they deployed.
Crew of 5.
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Doolittle's B-25's weren't very stripped down. They were virtually prototypes arriving from the factory. The B-25B did not have waist or tail guns to remove. 2 .50s in an upper, Bendix turret, 2 .50s in a lower, remote controlled turret, and 1 .30 cal. gun in the nose that the navigator slid into and out of various ports in the greenhouse to aim.
The radios were removed and the lower turret was removed because it was difficult to aim and didn't really work. Also, the Norden bombsite was removed.
Modifications were made to almost double the fuel capacity. This actually overweighted the plane by 3 tons.
Not very stripped down.
wrngway
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they put broomsticks in the tail to discourage enemy fighters from attacking from the rear. also remember only 1 on the 16 b-25s landed intact but landed in russia, their plane got confiscated and their crew captured. due to the fact that they had zero visibility and bad weather and they didnt have homing beacons, they indeed where some good raiders about few got killed.
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Originally posted by Spongebob
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The Ki-43 was the most widely-used Army fighter, and equipped 30 sentai (groups) and 12 chutais (squadrons). The first version, Mark I, entered service in 1941, the Mark II in December 1942, the II-Kai in June 1943, and the Mark IIIa in the summer of 1944.
The total production of the Ki-43 was 5,919 aircraft.
This is the plane that the Flying Tigers went up against. The Zero was the main ride of the IJN and the Ki-43 was the primary army fighter.
IMHO this plane was as big a hole as the P-39. I just want the AirCobra 'cause I'm a Yank and we can't get two planes :) (or can we?)
Read what I wrote a few more time....
There are too few early / mid Japanese planes to begin with - adding a single plane like the Ki-43 would do nothing to fill the 'canyon' that is in the Japanese plane set. The Ki-43 is just a spoon full of dirt into that canyon and has very limited use. The P-39 and B-25 have much wider potential and close gaps completely. I know its hard to comprehend but give it a try...
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Originally posted by tedrbr
Silly. Only American holes count! What were you thinking?!
Its done. Move on.
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I know its hard to comprehend but give it a try...
Did he...is that a...naw, Bruno must mean this in the politest possible way :)
I got your point. As I said, I just have a different opinion.
The good news is we both get our plane if the AirCobra wins. I bet we get the Mitchell sooner rather than later. See you in the weeds...
Magoo
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Originally posted by Squire
Im glad to see the Beavis and Butthead choice didnt make it to the final round.
There is hope yet...
Either of the two finals actually add something to the game, although I still would have preffered a Russian or Japanese made a/c.
Disagree with you on the Ki-43 Bruno, my philosophy is "you have to start somewhere" when it comes to the earlier birds?, at some point we need to see the 1942-3 PTO a/c get filled out
The problem Squire is you will get a Ki-43 then no other the plane for sometime to come. So you get a Ki-43 then what? There's are still a huge hole. Now the P-39 was fighting Ki-43 in New Guinea, tt was in North Africa and on the Eastern Front. Given the rate of new planes being introduced (which if IIRC was supposed to be at faster pace once AHII came out) the easy and obvious choice is the P-39. There are just as many holes in the the US PAC plane set as well. The B-25 fill some of them. It was also used in Western Europe, Med and on the Eastern Front. The P-39 is more a Soviet plane then even the Yak-3 in terms of importance.
A single Ki-43 variant has very limited usage not only in events and the CT but it will be a hangar queen given its gun package in the 'mains'.
The P-39 - hopefully multiple variants - will get used in the main arenas. The Q-5 would be competitive in the LW. D and N in the earlier arenas. It will have use in the CT and events etc...
. Of course, I have no illusions on the ranting such an addition will always cause, cuz its not a 1945-hardly-flew-uber-bird with 6 cannons that some 10 year old player has a model of.
[/b]
It is refreshing to see then stupid A-26 defeated. The B-25 will have multi-national, theater and time frame usage as well. Not like the ridiculously stupid choice of the A-26.
The P-39 and B-25 maybe be American built but they - especially the P-39 - were used by folks other then Americans. In large meaningful numbers as well - unlike the stupid A-26.
I would hope they would do a 'Japanese Aircraft Patch' but if they do get ready for ther 'we need F8F and F7F' and 'what about the B-29' - 'we need noooks'.
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From what I can tell surfing the net, the P-39N and Q have the same engine, with possibly any performance advantage coming from a few pounds of armor subtracted (Q-5) and the different gun packages with associated weight savings from deletions of the wing guns or variations in the weight of the rounds. I don't know that variation in fuel capacity is an issue as you may compensate with your loadout. So N & Q are likely late war rides with the Q being the most produced by far. My vote is for the Q-20 or higher which were mostly produced without wing guns.
For the record I'd like to request an option for the Hispano 20-MM such as was on the P-400 and D-1. I believe the Engine was the same on both these variants. The D-2 had the uprated engine however it was refitted with the spud gun so I guess ya gots to live with the 20-mm Mk1/1150 HP engine and say it better represents the early war P-39.
So here's the wishlist:
P-39D
P-400 or P-39D-1
P-39Q-20 (with option to keep or remove the wing gun pods)
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Originally posted by Treize69
For any of you firefighters out there, just want to point out that American LaFrance made the nose gear for the Airacobra... :cool:
(http://www.pacificwrecks.com/aircraft/p-39/41-6951/P39_queensland_beck_salvage.jpg)
Where did the put the Q2 and the bell?:huh
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Range was a problem and they knew that in the planning stages, weeks before they deployed.
Yes it was. However the fact remains that the Doolittle raid had to launch earlier than originally planned because the Hornet was spotted. Which made the range issue even more of an issue. At that point everything that wasn't an absolute need was stripped from the planes and replaced with fuel cans.
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nm
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Yup, your right on the last minute problems, but some posters seem to think the reduced crews and guns were all just a result of that, when in fact the B-25Bs were specially modified and crewed from the outset.
In the end they were all but defenceless in the air, save for the surprise factor, its a miracle they were not all shot down over Japan.
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hmm, i have to say i am completly and utterly unsuprised at the final choices...
the only thing that remains to be proven, is if theres more people who want a fighter, or that want a bomber.
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I'm only surprised the A-26 invader was beaten by the Mitchell, but then I expected the Yak 3 to run a close 2nd...
I guess everyone has a unique perspective on this matter, which explains the wide range of votes:)
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P-39 may be irrelevant if the GV model isn't altered. Air to mud is about all those turds were good for.
Gotta love the car doors. Great design. :rolleyes:
Mullah
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Originally posted by Masherbrum
It's a good thing that the skins can be changed in game eh?
Since when can the skin change the version ?
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Originally posted by tedrbr
Silly. Only American holes count! What were you thinking?!
American holes are bigger ?
errrr I didn't wrote that ! :p