Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Hwkeye on April 06, 2007, 04:21:52 PM
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that we come down to having to vote on two planes that didn't travel with HiTech from his old WarBirds. I was hoping for something more original. Off to cast my last vote.
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Here's a thought. Maybe since HTC gave us the plane list to vote on, they are planning to do them all, and are just using the vote to determine what order to do them in.
Just trying to think outside the box here. Who knows, maybe we'll get an update every other month for the next year with a new plane from the list until they are all done. Then we might get to vote again on anouther list.
Just from reading some of the other threads, some people are acting like they'll never see the plane they wanted because it didn't get enough votes. Considering HiTech and crew put that list together, I'm sure they sat down and had a meeting to discuss the projects they would like to work on and put in the game. I doubt those projects will go away, but they are using the vote to determine what to work on first.
Try to keep an open mind.
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Some of these guys in here act worse than my five year old son does when he doesn't get his way. Sheesh it was a vote..your plane didn't make it..get over it. I am growing tired of seeing the "Well the Yak, A26, G55 is out of the race so I am not going to vote anymore" crap. That is basically saying "If you are not going to play the game I want then I am going to take my toys and go home." Assumed grown men acting like children because they did not get what they want. That is what is pathetic.
-Sp0t
Edit: Your right Puck. So I added "assumed" to sentence.
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Originally posted by BBBB
Grown men
-Sp0t
You're making an assumption with insufficient data.
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7:52am:
HT: Okay guys a quick a meeting.
Pyro: What for?
HT: Just get in the office!
Pyro: Okay.
Skuzzy: Hold up real quick I gatta lock some topics on the BB.
HT: NO! Just get in here. Its a quick meeting.
Skuzzy: Fine :(
HT: ROSIE, SUPERFLY, WAFFLE, SUDZ GET IN HERE! WE'RE HAVING A QUICK MEETING!
8:02am
HT: Okay guys no questions, just take one sheet of paper and write the first plane that comes to your mind, thats not in AH.
Superfly: What is this fo.........
HT: NO WORDS! Just pens.
HT: Okay guys thanks for you choices.
Skuzzy: Finally now I can get back to the forums.
HT: SKUZZY! WHAT THE HECK IS THIS! F-22! I MENT WW2!
Skuzzy: Oh why didn't you say so. Ummm put, ummmm, ummmmm, okay ummmm.......
HT: OMG P something!
Sudz: Skuzzy how old are you?
Skuzzy: 39.
HT: THANK YOU P-39!
Skuzzy: Okay HT I got one..... Hey where did you go?
8:25am
HT: Pryo okay this is what I want.
Pryo: Yes sir.
HT: I want you to post that we are going to have a vote for a new plane for AH. I want you to add these planes to the voting list. This vote will determin the next planes to be modled. You figure out how we are going to do the voting, then come tell me.
Pryo: Okay.
8:27am
Waffle (listing threw the door, while on his IPOD Nano):
we are going to have/ a new plane for AH/ you to add these planes/ the next planes to be modled. OH no! Superfly come here.
Superfly: What is it waffle?
Waffle: HT wants us to build planes from a list he gave to Pryo.
Superfly: OMG. This will take forever. We better get that list and start now, so we don't miss out on golf season.
Waffle: Okay I'll call him out of his office. You get the list.
Superfly: Okay.
(Door opens)
HT: WTF is this! This isn't school, get to work. I'm going to take a dump.
Superfly: Sorry sir, won't happen again.
8:44am
Waffle: Pryo to Art Design Dept. Pryo to Art Design Dept.
Pryo: Yest Waffle what you need.
(Waffle looks to check and sees that Superfly has already gotten the list.)
Waffle: Ummm oops sorry I forgot Pryo.
Pryo: Omg, okay will if you remember come to my office.
Waffle: Alright.
8:46am
Superfly: I got it. Okay lets start modeling these
Waffle: Okay :)
Rosie: What are you guys doing?
Waffle: Modeling planes before they tells us to do them like 4 weeks from now. We want time to enjoy golf season.
Rosie: Guys will I just check the forums and Pryo......
(Sudz taps Rosie)
Superfly: Rosie he what?
Sudz: He ummm said we don't have to monitor the forums anymore. Skuzzy Has 8 laptops now and can monitor the major forums now.
Waffle and Superfly: Sweet.
9:00am
Sudz: This will be great when they find out only one plane was to be modled.
Rosie: Ha ha! This will be great.
:D
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LMAO VooWho :)
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I think most of the people here are frustrated because they don't want to see an aircraft dedicated to arena's that never have more than 50-60 people in them at one time.
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Originally posted by cav58d
I think most of the people here are frustrated because they don't want to see an aircraft dedicated to arena's that never have more than 50-60 people in them at one time.
Why not? I say to those people, expand your horizons and try flying the EW/MW planes. Anyone can land kills in the LW uber rides, but it takes skill to land kills in the EW/MW rides in the LW arenas, but never the less the majority has spoken and we will have a plane that can fill the roles in ALL the arenas.
(http://www.seinfeld-fan.net/pictures/episodes/the_soup_nazi/the_soup_nazi017.jpg)
"NO UBER RIDE FOR YOU!!!!"
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Yes that makes perfect business sense. Let's pick an aircraft to satisfy 10% of our gaming public. Never mind the other 90%. Let's just all fly EW planes. I have flown in the EW once. I spent the night defending a VH by myself in a P-38G I think I got shot down once. And killed the other guys 10-12 times. Really, really, tough arena. ;)
-Sp0t
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nice VooHoo :rofl
btw where is mussie?
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come on guys..
I see a company that is trying to provide a quality product. At least they asked out opinions on what to add.
Frankly I really don't care what gets added. I would have liked to see the Finns get their plan added just because they aren't represented. I personally would like to fly the B25 but in the big scheme who really cares?
I'm not a shill for HTC but at least they seem to attempt to care about what the membership wants.
Keep in mind that no matter what they end up doing 50 to 60 percent of the people will not be satisfied.
My bet is that eventually they'll have all the planes on the list available in different arenas.
15 bucks a month for people that actually seem to be trying to put a quality product out there for their members is a drop in the bucket to most of our budgets.
Lets be patient and happy that they asked instead of dictated like so many other sites just say eff you we're doing what we want to do regardless of what you want.
Just my opinion but sheesh.
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Originally posted by BBBB
Yes that makes perfect business sense. Let's pick an aircraft to satisfy 10% of our gaming public. Never mind the other 90%. Let's just all fly EW planes. I have flown in the EW once. I spent the night defending a VH by myself in a P-38G I think I got shot down once. And killed the other guys 10-12 times. Really, really, tough arena. ;)
-Sp0t
What does business sense have to do with this? The gaming public as you call it have voted for these aircraft. Seeing as how 2 EW/MW planes have made it to the final round of voting, obviously more than 10% of the player base wants them.
Seems to me that maybe you have your stats backwards, in that 90% want them and you belong to the 10% that doesn't. Also no one is telling you to only fly in the EW arena. If that's not you cup of tea don't go there. If you don't want to fly EW planes then don't. If you don't like the new plane that comes to the game don't fly it. No one's forcing you to, but you come acros in your post that because the rest of us DO want to fly them that we're somehow messing up the game for you because your not getting what you want.
Well that's called Democracy. You know, majority rule, power of the vote and all that good stuff.
O'well, the masses have spoken, glad I've voted for the B-25 EVERY time. At least I know my vote has counted for something.
What planes did you vote for, or did you quit voting when the uber rides where cut?
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I see us adding another plane into a game with a severely broken strat system. Still.
>shrug<
Enjoy your new plane :)
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Whether we get the B-25, or the aerocobra, people will fly them like mad for the first month...Just like the spit 16....unlike the spit 16 though, neither of these airframes can compete against the current set of LW fighters...."but it's the "pilot" not the airplane"....TRUE. How many awesome sticks do we have though?
I'm calling it now. 12 months from now, the B-25 will be in a race for more sorties flown with the KI-67, or the P-39 will be head to head with ...........
ehhhh. nevermind. why the hell do i even care lmao
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Originally posted by Dichotomy
come on guys..
I see a company that is trying to provide a quality product. At least they asked out opinions on what to add.
Yes they did. And the whines came forth. They also imposed other conditions on the game, and the whines came forth. Proof that you cannot please everyone, anytime, anywhere.
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Originally posted by LePaul
I see us adding another plane into a game with a severely broken strat system. Still.
>shrug<
Enjoy your new plane :)
Agreed.
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lol VooHoo
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Originally posted by LePaul
I see us adding another plane into a game with a severely broken strat system. Still.
>shrug<
Enjoy your new plane :)
I guess you simply do things differently than HT LePaul.
First he built a Flight Sim and then a forum to go with it, you have built a forum, and then an R2D2.
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Originally posted by BBBB
Yes that makes perfect business sense. Let's pick an aircraft to satisfy 10% of our gaming public.
The people who fly late war already have their rides. They've had them for years. Look at the late war planes in this voting - most of them were hardly used during the war at all (WW says the G55 got, what, four kills?). Given that you got first choice a long time ago, it isn't so strange that the people who have plodded along waiting for aircraft that were used during the rest of the war now have a chance.
- oldman
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Originally posted by cav58d
Whether we get the B-25, or the aerocobra, people will fly them like mad for the first month...Just like the spit 16....unlike the spit 16 though, neither of these airframes can compete against the current set of LW fighters...."but it's the "pilot" not the airplane"....TRUE. How many awesome sticks do we have though?
I'm calling it now. 12 months from now, the B-25 will be in a race for more sorties flown with the KI-67, or the P-39 will be head to head with ...........
ehhhh. nevermind. why the hell do i even care lmao
I'm sure the B-25 will get plenty of use... It just won't win. I'm confident that the majority of players will vote for a fighter more than a bomber.
And what about that fighter? Let's examine the P-39Q-1.
Down where it will be flown, it will be superior to the Yak-9T, Ki-61, P-40s, Zeros, FM-2/F4F, P-38G (which is only faster above 17k) and the Hurricanes. All of the above are commonly found in the LWAs.
But, hold the phone. It will turn circles around the Yak-9U, C.205, all of the 190s, P-47s, P-38s, P-51s, Tiffie, Tempest, La-5 and La-7 as well as most of the 109s. It should, with flaps, hang with the F6F and F4Us. Inasmuch as the P-39Q climbs just about as well as the F6F and F4Us, it will give them a very hard time. Then we have the P-39M... It was fitted with the Allison V-1710-63 that generated 1,590 hp at 2,000 feet. That is more than the P-51B has on tap.
The more common P-39N and Q models had 1,420 hp available. A clean P-39Q with full fuel should manage about 380 mph at 10k and 385 mph at 12k. How does that compare to the rest of the plane set? Well, I've tested the entire plane set at 10k with 25% fuel. Here's some examples:
P-39Q-1: 380 mph
F4U-1D: 380 mph
La-5FN: 377 mph
P-38J: 373 mph
P-47D-11: 377 mph
Spitfire IX: 362 mph
Ki-84: 367 mph
Fw 190A-5: 366 mph
Bf 109G-2: 380 mph
C.205: 365 mph
Typhoon: 381 mph
Yak-9T: 352 mph
F6F-5: 354 mph
Guys, it doesn't take much thought to realize that the P-39Q will be very competitive in terms of speed in the low altitude environment of the LWAs.
I mentioned turning ability. Lets quantify that some. I will use the same fuel load as we use to measure turn radius; 25%.
So, this produces a weight of right around 7,200 lbs (the P-39 is a small fighter). It has a wing area of 213.22 sq/ft. Thus, we have a wing loading of 33.7 lbs per sq/ft. That's substantially better than the F6F-5 and getting real close to the Spitfires. If I calculate based upon wing loading and coefficient of lift, I find that the P-39Q will turn almost as well as the FM-2.
In conclusion, we are looking at a fighter that can turn like a Wildcat, offers competitive speed (and acceleration) and decent climb from sea level.
Do you guys still believe that the P-39 will be a hanger queen? Not a chance.
My regards,
Widewing
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Originally posted by Oldman731
The people who fly late war already have their rides. They've had them for years. Look at the late war planes in this voting - most of them were hardly used during the war at all (WW says the G55 got, what, four kills?). Given that you got first choice a long time ago, it isn't so strange that the people who have plodded along waiting for aircraft that were used during the rest of the war now have a chance.
- oldman
I was kidding about the 4 kills..... :)
My regards,
Widewing
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Geeesh ... there goes Widewing again spitting out statistics and not emotions ... :mad:
When are you going to learn Widewing ... :rolleyes:
;)
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Originally posted by Widewing
So, this produces a weight of right around 7,200 lbs (the P-39 is a small fighter). It has a wing area of 213.22 sq/ft. Thus, we have a wing loading of 33.7 lbs per sq/ft. That's substantially better than the F6F-5 and getting real close to the Spitfires. If I calculate based upon wing loading and coefficient of lift, I find that the P-39Q will turn almost as well as the FM-2.
I'll wait and see how maneuverable it will be (if it gets added) but right now FM-2 turns better than either of the P-40s and P-40s were generally considered to be more maneuverable than P-39s in real life.
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Originally posted by Widewing
I'm sure the B-25 will get plenty of use... It just won't win. I'm confident that the majority of players will vote for a fighter more than a bomber.
And what about that fighter? Let's examine the P-39Q-1.
Down where it will be flown, it will be superior to the Yak-9T, Ki-61, P-40s, Zeros, FM-2/F4F, P-38G (which is only faster above 17k) and the Hurricanes. All of the above are commonly found in the LWAs.
But, hold the phone. It will turn circles around the Yak-9U, C.205, all of the 190s, P-47s, P-38s, P-51s, Tiffie, Tempest, La-5 and La-7 as well as most of the 109s. It should, with flaps, hang with the F6F and F4Us. Inasmuch as the P-39Q climbs just about as well as the F6F and F4Us, it will give them a very hard time. Then we have the P-39M... It was fitted with the Allison V-1710-63 that generated 1,590 hp at 2,000 feet. That is more than the P-51B has on tap.
The more common P-39N and Q models had 1,420 hp available. A clean P-39Q with full fuel should manage about 380 mph at 10k and 385 mph at 12k. How does that compare to the rest of the plane set? Well, I've tested the entire plane set at 10k with 25% fuel. Here's some examples:
P-39Q-1: 380 mph
F4U-1D: 380 mph
La-5FN: 377 mph
P-38J: 373 mph
P-47D-11: 377 mph
Spitfire IX: 362 mph
Ki-84: 367 mph
Fw 190A-5: 366 mph
Bf 109G-2: 380 mph
C.205: 365 mph
Typhoon: 381 mph
Yak-9T: 352 mph
F6F-5: 354 mph
Guys, it doesn't take much thought to realize that the P-39Q will be very competitive in terms of speed in the low altitude environment of the LWAs.
I mentioned turning ability. Lets quantify that some. I will use the same fuel load as we use to measure turn radius; 25%.
So, this produces a weight of right around 7,200 lbs (the P-39 is a small fighter). It has a wing area of 213.22 sq/ft. Thus, we have a wing loading of 33.7 lbs per sq/ft. That's substantially better than the F6F-5 and getting real close to the Spitfires. If I calculate based upon wing loading and coefficient of lift, I find that the P-39Q will turn almost as well as the FM-2.
In conclusion, we are looking at a fighter that can turn like a Wildcat, offers competitive speed (and acceleration) and decent climb from sea level.
Do you guys still believe that the P-39 will be a hanger queen? Not a chance.
My regards,
Widewing
Strange... I was told by a clown that the 9T was superior in every aspect to the P-39.
Who'd have thought a clown would be wrong.
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
Bronk
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Originally posted by cav58d
I think most of the people here are frustrated because they don't want to see an aircraft dedicated to arena's that never have more than 50-60 people in them at one time.
Cav I fly the Spit 1 in the LWA and OFTEN land kills. Does this negate your argument and the 100+ other's who keep saying that very thing?
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I am just happy we get to play....
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Originally posted by BBBB
Yes that makes perfect business sense. Let's pick an aircraft to satisfy 10% of our gaming public. ...
-Sp0t
While I can understand getting cranked up about something, I'm still amazed at how some people can show absolute, 100% lack of logic.
Hate to point his out, Spot, but this POPULAR VOTE has been structured about as carefully as possible to assure that the MAJORITY gets what it wants.
Last time I checked, any candidate with 10% of the vote is defeated in a landslide....
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Originally posted by Wmaker
I'll wait and see how maneuverable it will be (if it gets added) but right now FM-2 turns better than either of the P-40s and P-40s were generally considered to be more maneuverable than P-39s in real life.
I've read the same thing, but I'm sure that pilots were reluctant to push the P-39 very hard due to its reputation (generally a result of low-time pilots getting into trouble with the P-39's extremely sensitive and powerful elevators)..
If we look at Dean's figures in AHT, we find that his calculations place the P-63A-9 a close second to the FM-2 in turning ability. If we take the P-63's weight with full fuel (8,780 lb) and subtract enough fuel to get down to 25%, we are looking at a weight of about 8,380 lb. Divide this by the wing area of 248 sq/ft and we find a wing loading of 33.8 lb per sq/ft, which is almost identical to that of the P-39Q. The P-39Q has a higher maximum lift coefficient than the P-63A (see NACA TN 1044 located here (http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19930084610_1993084610.pdf)). Thus, the P-39Q should turn even better than the P-63A.
My regards,
Widewing
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Originally posted by Widewing
I'm sure the B-25 will get plenty of use... It just won't win. I'm confident that the majority of players will vote for a fighter more than a bomber.
And what about that fighter? Let's examine the P-39Q-1.
Down where it will be flown, it will be superior to the Yak-9T, Ki-61, P-40s, Zeros, FM-2/F4F, P-38G (which is only faster above 17k) and the Hurricanes. All of the above are commonly found in the LWAs.
But, hold the phone. It will turn circles around the Yak-9U, C.205, all of the 190s, P-47s, P-38s, P-51s, Tiffie, Tempest, La-5 and La-7 as well as most of the 109s. It should, with flaps, hang with the F6F and F4Us. Inasmuch as the P-39Q climbs just about as well as the F6F and F4Us, it will give them a very hard time. Then we have the P-39M... It was fitted with the Allison V-1710-63 that generated 1,590 hp at 2,000 feet. That is more than the P-51B has on tap.
The more common P-39N and Q models had 1,420 hp available. A clean P-39Q with full fuel should manage about 380 mph at 10k and 385 mph at 12k. How does that compare to the rest of the plane set? Well, I've tested the entire plane set at 10k with 25% fuel. Here's some examples:
P-39Q-1: 380 mph
F4U-1D: 380 mph
La-5FN: 377 mph
P-38J: 373 mph
P-47D-11: 377 mph
Spitfire IX: 362 mph
Ki-84: 367 mph
Fw 190A-5: 366 mph
Bf 109G-2: 380 mph
C.205: 365 mph
Typhoon: 381 mph
Yak-9T: 352 mph
F6F-5: 354 mph
Guys, it doesn't take much thought to realize that the P-39Q will be very competitive in terms of speed in the low altitude environment of the LWAs.
I mentioned turning ability. Lets quantify that some. I will use the same fuel load as we use to measure turn radius; 25%.
So, this produces a weight of right around 7,200 lbs (the P-39 is a small fighter). It has a wing area of 213.22 sq/ft. Thus, we have a wing loading of 33.7 lbs per sq/ft. That's substantially better than the F6F-5 and getting real close to the Spitfires. If I calculate based upon wing loading and coefficient of lift, I find that the P-39Q will turn almost as well as the FM-2.
In conclusion, we are looking at a fighter that can turn like a Wildcat, offers competitive speed (and acceleration) and decent climb from sea level.
Do you guys still believe that the P-39 will be a hanger queen? Not a chance.
My regards,
Widewing
I have to tell you Widewing the plane you describe above was not the plane I flew in Warbirds. The P-39 was not an uber-plane in there nor in WWII. It was not competitive in the interceptor role (if my history serves me correctly that is what it was originally intended for) so the P-39 was relegated to the air-to-mud role pretty quickly with the onset of hostilities. You have to credit the Russians for making Lemonade out of a lemon with that plane! Now IF it will bust open a TIGR in AHII it has got a role in the LW arena otherwise as they say "not so much". I see it more being used in the Special Events arena because of it's use by the US and Russia.
I will acknowledge the fact that anything new will be utilized by pilots and I consider that a good thing. Particularly if it will keep pilots interested in AH2. (Honestly, although I don't do a huge amount of GV driving in AH2 I am actually more excited about the Firefly coming on board than either of the two finalist!)
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Originally posted by Simaril
While I can understand getting cranked up about something, I'm still amazed at how some people can show absolute, 100% lack of logic.
Hate to point his out, Spot, but this POPULAR VOTE has been structured about as carefully as possible to assure that the MAJORITY gets what it wants.
Last time I checked, any candidate with 10% of the vote is defeated in a landslide....
Logic?
But the fact it's a popular vote, and the planes that have made it through the rounds, is what makes that argument not track. Look at who flies what and where online in this game:
(Using kills + deaths combined by plane against total numbers to get a general idea of actual use in game, since spawn numbers are not available)
N1K2, P-51D, Spitfire Mk XVI, La-7, SeaFire in March made up 26.8% of plane use in order of use. Over 1/4th.
Add the the B-24J, Typhoon IB, F6F-5, P-38L, Bf 110G-2, Hurricane Mk IIC, Spitfire Mk VIII, Lancaster III, F4U-1D, and those 14 planes make up another for 52.1% (9 planes for another 25.3%) of all planes used in March, out of 74 total aircraft.
37 (half) other aircraft make up 13.6% of the planes used in the game, with the Ar234 running dead last.
Over 90% of the online population can be found in the 2 Late War Arenas. The SEA, EW, MW, AvA, and TA combined only make up a fraction of the presence in ONE LW arena.
So, how does 90% of the population, usually flying the 14 planes listed, usher a EW, medium level bomber, less capable than the B-26, through the rounds?
They don't know what they are voting for; were unfamiliar with the planes and their performance envelopes and capabilities?
They are voting for what they recognize from the list (name recognition); Doolittle Raid, a Movie?
They are voting for a medium bomber that can take off from a CV? (sur-prise!)
Are they voting for a slow firing, manually loading (when not pulling G's) 75mm gun platform with 20 rounds, historically used for anti-shipping operations to use against GV's that Osties and M-16's will chew up for lunch?
Or, since none of the planes on the list given were seen as being more Uber than their L-gays, Splixteens, Nik-weeds, and Runstangs, they voted for the easy target drone in hopes to pad their scores on it's release?
"The majority gets what it wants" ... Does the majority even know what it would be getting? I seriously question that it at this point.
I could understand the Yak 3 (air superiority), P-39 (low level fighter and Russian use), Oscar (IJA fighter), A-26 (perkable buff and from AW fame), I can even see the Me 410 (with the big gun). The G.55 being cut in the first round with 3 X 20mm's with 200-250 rpg was a big surprise to me, considering the planes the majority (thus the voters) usually fly in the arenas. But of all the planes on that list, the B-25 makes it to the final round?
Sorry, I'm not buying the historical inclusion arguments, or those saying the majority want another EW aircraft to use in the EW arena. How the majority currently play the game does not support such claims. I am supposed to believe the low numbers in EW is because the Mitchell is not there? "It deserves to be represented in the game." I've heard as well; and you can argue that easily enough (along with He-111, P-39 and Pe-2 on sheer numbers and important fronts), but does not reflect the online majority population's habits.
Are those fighter pilots going to start flying a slow EW bomber with a 2,000 to 3,000 bomb load? Are the Lanc and B-24 drivers going to? Are IL-2 pilots going to opt for a larger, slower, less maneuverable plane with similar ord capabilities for 1 X 75mm X 20 rds HE gun rather than 2 X 23mm X 150rpg AP guns against GV's?
It would be very interesting if HTC posted the total votes from each round after the final round to better track how the majority was voting through this process. It would certainly provide better insight as to what the majority was thinking.
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Originally posted by Simaril
While I can understand getting cranked up about something, I'm still amazed at how some people can show absolute, 100% lack of logic.
Hate to point his out, Spot, but this POPULAR VOTE has been structured about as carefully as possible to assure that the MAJORITY gets what it wants.
Last time I checked, any candidate with 10% of the vote is defeated in a landslide....
You misunderstood my post. I am all for the majorty vote. I think it is silly to just go ahead and add and aircraft into AHII without a vote. I am refering to the guys screaming for an EW plane. It is silly to add a plane that only 10 percent of the gamming public will really use. Give the ppl what they want. They have voted, it is down to the P39 and the B-25. Two planes that have been asked for more times than I care to count. In my book the B-25 has plenty of uses in the LW arenas. More so if we get the G or H models.
-Sp0t
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Originally posted by Hwkeye
I have to tell you Widewing the plane you describe above was not the plane I flew in Warbirds.
IIRC, Warbirds has the P-39D. It doesn't have nearly as much power as the P-39Q.
P-39D: 1,150 hp at 12,000 ft, 368 mph @ 12,000 feet. 309 mph at sea level. Climb to 15k in 5.7 minutes.
P-39Q: 1,420 hp at 9,700 ft, 385 mph @ 12,500 feet. 331 mph at sea level. Climb to 15k in 4.5 minutes. Note: Some sources quote 399 mph for the P-39N and P-39Q @ 9,700 feet.
The the P-39Q is far more capable than the April 1941 vintage P-39D. P-39Ns and Qs constituted 2/3rds of Airacobra production.
My regards,
Widewing
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Originally posted by Widewing
IIRC, Warbirds has the P-39D. It doesn't have nearly as much power as the P-39Q.
And do you know for sure which model we'll be getting? maybe I missed that here amongst the radio noise.
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Originally posted by tedrbr
Logic?
But the fact it's a popular vote, and the planes that have made it through the rounds, is what makes that argument not track. Look at who flies what and where online in this game:
(Using kills + deaths combined by plane against total numbers to get a general idea of actual use in game, since spawn numbers are not available)
N1K2, P-51D, Spitfire Mk XVI, La-7, SeaFire in March made up 26.8% of plane use in order of use. Over 1/4th.
Add the the B-24J, Typhoon IB, F6F-5, P-38L, Bf 110G-2, Hurricane Mk IIC, Spitfire Mk VIII, Lancaster III, F4U-1D, and those 14 planes make up another for 52.1% (9 planes for another 25.3%) of all planes used in March, out of 74 total aircraft.
37 (half) other aircraft make up 13.6% of the planes used in the game, with the Ar234 running dead last.
Over 90% of the online population can be found in the 2 Late War Arenas. The SEA, EW, MW, AvA, and TA combined only make up a fraction of the presence in ONE LW arena.
So, how does 90% of the population, usually flying the 14 planes listed, usher a EW, medium level bomber, less capable than the B-26, through the rounds?
Blah Blah Blah
Hmm . . . Top 5 "uber planes" are used only 27% of the time.
I think it is you who does not understand the logic.
A minority of the sorties are in "uber" planes.
Check the killstats of most players, and you will see a variety of aircraft. They have favorites, but I know of very few that fly one plane exclusively.
If high-performance was the only thing the player base really wanted, the stats for the top five would be even higher. So, if high-performance isn't the turn-on for the majority of players, why would they vote for another high-performance plane?
I'd say most of the voters know exactly what they are getting.
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Actually, the truth in popularity lies somewhere in the middle of current opinions. The people voting for the P39 or B25 who previously voted for planes which were eliminated can't always be counted as fans of the final two. This is contrasted by the fact that the final two still made it to the last round, speaking to their general popularity.
What would've been nice to see was a single vote where everyone ranked the planes on the list from top to bottom with 10 points going to the top spot and 1 to the bottom. I'd bet the P-39 would have still won out (if indeed it does win at all), but it would be interesting to see what the rest of that list might have looked like.
This style of vote would have been better suited to HTC using the list to choose what to model next, after the P-39 (I hope), if indeed they wish to choose based on current voting for the next plane.
For example:
P-39
Ki 43
Yak 3
B-25
Pe 2
Brewster Buffallo
He 111
G.55
Me 410
A-26
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Originally posted by Hwkeye
I was hoping for something more original.
Hawk,
What do you want to convey by "original?"
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Originally posted by E25280
Hmm . . . 90% of the players fly 14 planes 50% of the time.
90%X50% = 45%.
Ergo, 55%, a sizable majority, choose NOT to fly the "uber" warplanes.
I think it is you who does not understand the logic.
A minority of the sorties are in "uber" planes.
Check the killstats of most players, and you will see a variety of aircraft. They have favorites, but I know of very few that fly one plane exclusively.
If high-performance was the only thing the player base really wanted, the stats for the top five would be even higher. So, if high-performance isn't the turn-on for the majority of players, why would they vote for another high-performance plane?
I'd say most of the voters know exactly what they are getting.
An easy, LW, score padding, target drone?
Okay, since HTC does not break down the stats by EW, MW, and the two LW arenas, the numbers would be skewed (take a statistics class) TOWARD the LW rides listed even more, which would go a long way in pushing those numbers the other way if considering WHERE the majority of those players actually fly (hint: Late War). IE, EW ride numbers would be even worse if looking at only LW usage numbers.
I did not look at any player stats. I pulled the Plane Model stats of all planes for the month of March, --- discarded vehicles, gunners (which I could not separate by bomber type), and chutes --- added the kills and deaths figures together (as not every pilot that lifts gets kill, and not every pilot ends up dead on a sortie,... and SPAWN numbers are not available), and compared those numbers against the total numbers of kills and deaths to get the best look at plane usage numbers (if not actual spawns) from the data available.
The actual percentages will be off a little due to individual skills in planes, but the rankings should be about as accurate as can be had, unless you plug every kill stat from every player into a spreadsheet. (Feel free to do so. I suggest doing a 4 month sampling for accuracy.)
My argument comes down to how can the majority of online voters, with the plane usage trends they've displayed from the statistics pulled from the website, keep a plane in the running whose performance parameters, compared to similar aircraft in the game, will place it down in the lower 1/3rd, at best, as far as usage?
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The reason most of the servers are empty is because the lack of planes to fly.
Also the fact there are TWO late war servers.
now i know 125% if one late war room got shut down,the others would fill up in no time.
and THEN you know what the biggest gripe would be?
LACK OF OLD PLANES!
Fact is you are all spoiled in flyin' 44-45 aircraft.
With two main server almost always packed.
Shows the majority of aces high fans are ubber ride lovin' skill-less hacks.
Land a p40b or such with OVER 4 kills then you can talk.
But what i have to ask,is do people play in the late war servers JUST because they hold the most people? "i mean,who wants to try and fly in a room with only a handfull of players"
HTC,shut down one of the later war servers.
Then force these %$& to fly older planes,open there eyes.
"Throws two cents"
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Yes..because you know what is best for us. You wan't to tell us what we should fly that is fine by me..next month you can pay for my AH. Then I will fly wherever you tell me. If HTC shut down one of the LW servers I would go fly in the AVA. Not the EW. Heres to you knowning the AH fan base so well..cheers!
-Sp0t
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They pay their $15 a month to play a game. Forcing them into EW or MW don't seem like the best way to keep customers. They can't get into LW, they may just log back off.
That the majority of online players are geared toward flying der most uber is no surprise. Seeing questions on the Help Channel every weekend, to quote: "what fastest plane?" "what best plane?" "how i go fast?" "what best gun?" "how do i fly?" "how come everyone faster than me?" does not surprise me after years of online play in various games.
I also do not believe in the "if you model it, they will come" argument to EW populations. Put all the Buffalos LaGG-1's, Polikarpov I-15's, and Swordfish you want into the arenas, I don't see them drawing many more players into the EW arena. Part of the problem in the planes available, the other is the player numbers to interact with.
I like the Mid-War plane set. I don't fly there because so few people are ever there.
I'm all for getting rid of one LW arena though. And the arena CAP. And bring back more and larger maps to the rotation.
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While flying mostly a A6M2 with 22 kills*
I have been killed most this month by
Ostwind 3 times
Spitfire Mk IX 2 times
F4U-1A 2 times
This does not track with your theory of ubar-ness. They aren't finding me (shrug)
*(I do have 9 kills in a tempest, but that was only two sorties last night.)
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Originally posted by tedrbr Forcing them into EW or MW don't seem like the best way to keep customers.
Ted,
Neither did it to me. I think, however, I am wrong. Dollars drive business. Other "nicer" factors exist and play a part of course.
HTC bulletin board doesn't = all HTC's customers.
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Originally posted by blkmgc
And do you know for sure which model we'll be getting? maybe I missed that here amongst the radio noise.
I'm fairly certain that the P-39Q will be modeled because it fits the MWA and LWAs, where the bulk of the players can be found. I'm also pretty confident that they would also add the P-39D at the same time as it fits the EWA and the MWA. There's little external difference (gun pods on the Q).
I would expect the Q in VVS colors and the D in USAAF colors. Of course, the skinners will add many more.
Note also that the Q was far and away the most common variant manufactured.
My regards,
Widewing
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P-39Q
(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c62/Masherbrum/AirZoo/AirZoo002.jpg)
(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c62/Masherbrum/AirZoo/AirZoo003.jpg)
P-39Q ammo
(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c62/Masherbrum/AirZoo/AirZoo009.jpg)
These were taken last year at the Kalamazoo AirZoo.
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Hap said....
"Hawk,
What do you want to convey by "original?"
That's a pretty good question Hap. I don't see either plane as being very interesting. One of the things I found really nice about Aces High was the wider variation of planes available to fly than in WB or WBII. I mean where can you go to fly an Arado or for that matter drive a Tiger Tank?
Both planes have roles that are already covered by a number of different planes in the inventory so I was looking for something that was still a bit out of the ordinary.
You would be right if you were to conclude that I wasn't all that impressed with a couple of the planes on the list we started with. (The Buffalo would be a good example). I thought the more obscure Japanese or Russian planes were more interesting than the two planes in the finals but I don't want to leave you - or anyone else - thinking that I am all upset about the wins and loses I was just hoping for something more 'original' (or maybe I should have used the word 'interesting').
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Originally posted by tedrbr
My argument comes down to how can the majority of online voters, with the plane usage trends they've displayed from the statistics pulled from the website, keep a plane in the running whose performance parameters, compared to similar aircraft in the game, will place it down in the lower 1/3rd, at best, as far as usage?
Take your logic to its ultimate conclusion, you are basically arguing that the majority of players would be just fine with having the plane set limited to the top 5 models. Hogwash.
If the top 5 planes represent the "elite" planes of the game, and the majority of players wanted to fly only an "elite" plane, then you would not have 73% of total kills/deaths in planes that are NOT in that group of 5.
Stated another way, every time a decision is made by a player whether to take an "elite", performance-driven aircraft, or one that is "sub-par", 73% of the time it is the sub-par performer that is picked.
We have plenty of "uber-rides", and most people choose to fly something different. That is what the usage trend shows. It baffles me why that is not clear to you.
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Originally posted by Masherbrum
P-39Q
(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c62/Masherbrum/AirZoo/AirZoo002.jpg)
(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c62/Masherbrum/AirZoo/AirZoo003.jpg)
P-39Q ammo
(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c62/Masherbrum/AirZoo/AirZoo009.jpg)
These were taken last year at the Kalamazoo AirZoo.
Mash you might want to take a look at that 37mm again. Looks like it has too much neck to be the 37x145R used with the Olds gun.
http://forums.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=202530
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Originally posted by aztec
I guess you simply do things differently than HT LePaul.
First he built a Flight Sim and then a forum to go with it, you have built a forum, and then an R2D2.
LOL :)
Thanks, Aztec
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Originally posted by Widewing
I'm fairly certain that the P-39Q will be modeled because it fits the MWA and LWAs,
Oh, ok. So the model thats presented for votes hasnt been officially announced.
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Originally posted by zorstorer
Mash you might want to take a look at that 37mm again. Looks like it has too much neck to be the 37x145R used with the Olds gun.
http://forums.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=202530
It is a 37mm shell training round. Talk to Kalamazoo AirZoo.
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Originally posted by BBBB
Yes that makes perfect business sense. Let's pick an aircraft to satisfy 10% of our gaming public. Never mind the other 90%.
Well, when you have a vote, open to 100% of the players, and the plane is picked by a majority vote of all players, I assume more than 10% are the ones that want it.
Edit: Oops. I see this point was already made.
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Originally posted by Widewing
And what about that fighter? Let's examine the P-39Q-1.
Perk the P-39Q! :)
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Originally posted by Masherbrum
(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c62/Masherbrum/AirZoo/AirZoo003.jpg)
These were taken last year at the Kalamazoo AirZoo.
Damn ... if that tower doesn't look like the one we have in the game.
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PERK THE TREES WHILE YOUR AT IT
Uber trees I say....
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See below :rolleyes:
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As a Florida State fan I don't usually agree with a Gator but I have to agree with him on perking the trees!! LOL
Go Noles!
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b132/LERobinson1/fsulogo.jpg)
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Originally posted by Hwkeye
Hap said....
"Hawk,
What do you want to convey by "original?"
That's a pretty good question Hap. I don't see either plane as being very interesting. One of the things I found really nice about Aces High was the wider variation of planes available to fly than in WB or WBII. I mean where can you go to fly an Arado or for that matter drive a Tiger Tank?
Both planes have roles that are already covered by a number of different planes in the inventory so I was looking for something that was still a bit out of the ordinary.
You would be right if you were to conclude that I wasn't all that impressed with a couple of the planes on the list we started with. (The Buffalo would be a good example). I thought the more obscure Japanese or Russian planes were more interesting than the two planes in the finals but I don't want to leave you - or anyone else - thinking that I am all upset about the wins and loses I was just hoping for something more 'original' (or maybe I should have used the word 'interesting').
Thanks for getting back to me. I had hoped you would. I have read nothing and neither talked to anyone that has said what I suppose might be case is in fact true. That is, HTC will model an aircraft after the voting and maybe add another that they "guys" want to see. Maybe be an "intersting" one.
The SBD I put in that category. I flew it precious little -- mostly when I was commanding a CV and needed an observation platform.
As the plane set grows -- and I hope that one day the planes that players didn't vote in &/or HTC add on their own --- the chances of "interesting" combos exist to an even greater degree. More for the imagination to get ahold of I guess -- especially the scenario makers. That's way interesting to me even though work always got in the way and I've flew only one in the past years. It was fun!!
I don't know that what I'm about to say will ever be available, but it goes to the ideal of imagination and immersion. Maps that have the right eye candy, terrain changes, things that make a pilot and gv'er say, "oh wow. look at that!" Trinity does that for me. Pulls me in every time especially on the landward side. Also, maps that HTC models containing real cities e.g. Berlin, Paris, etc. Taking liberties of course for imigination's sake.
Back to the planes, the set will continue to grow over time. So, there should be, over time, just about what ever was flown in #'s during WW2. I'm not considering a WWI or Korea expansion, but that may happen one day.
The same could be hoped for when it comes to fleets and gv's -- which HTC has expanded since I began playing pre-Tiger.
One last word on "interesting," that is something that fires the imagination or upon which our fancy takes hold and we're transported back to that time, and I guess it exists in seed or kernal form now with HTC categorizing the arenas by year -- early -- mid -- late. It's not where it can be or will be, but the "interest" comes from what one meets during game play. You know, those factors that happen when folks run a Hurri 1 Raid, or The Attack of Vals. Those are the examples that spring to mind, but of course there's more and better examples of what I'm trying to say, but I just can't drum them up at the moment.
Thanks again for getting back, and I'll keep my eye on the boards. No doubt, the AH jones will set in and/or things will just get too "interesting" to not fly -- and missing some of the guys is always a factor.
hap
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Just been doing some reading up on the P-39.
Of the top-10 Russian aces, four flew the P-39. Of the top five, #2, #3, and #4 flew the P-39.
That's interesting considering the Russians had about 5000 P-39's but produced about 17,000 Yak 9's, 10,000 La-5's, and 5800 La-7's. I don't expect the P-39 to be a better plane than Yak 9's or La-7's, but there must have been something good about that plane that can be exploited.
From:
http://www.acepilots.com/planes/soviet_p39_airacobra.html
and
http://www.acesofww2.com/soviet/Soviet.htm