Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: SELECTOR on April 07, 2007, 06:08:50 PM
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i don't really care what plane wins..but i really don't see the point of the b25 to be even considered in the first place..
historically it was an important aircraft, but ah isn't historical..was the only plane with range that could lift off of a carrier.. range isn't an issue in ah.. apart from scenarios i can't see it being anything but a hanger queen..
we have some excellent light/ medium bombers already no need for another american ride..
what i would have liked to have seen offered was a smaller list with a few more exotic planes (some you don't see in other games),
as i said i don't care which wins, i just think there has been a missed opportunity to fire up the communities imagination..
i will be voting for the p39 due to the fact that i feel it will get the most use and time and effort will not have been wasted..
salute all..
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I agree with you 100% Selector.
I've been wanting a "plane vote" for a long time and I'm very happy we got it. Quite obviously the majority has spoken so there is nothing to whine about.
Next time (I do hope there will be a next time) I hope HTC decides, like you say, on a few exotic planes and/or some planes that are really needed (like russian bombers and some more Japanese fighters).
I forfeited this last vote though as I don't care which one is added. I would've loved to see the A26 though :)
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The A-20G is all but helpless. The B-26 just doesn't have the frontal firepower (and is overly heavy, due to all the 50cals onboard).
The B-25 would be a great attacker, with the solid nose. Give it a glass nose and all of a sudden you have a plane that MUCH better suited to all FSO and SEA events than the B-26 normally is.
With the solid nose you get 8 in the nose and 4 in the cheeks, 12 50cals total (300 rpg) plus 3000lbs of bombs and/or some rockets (depending on type). Possibly it'll get 75mm HE gun for attacking towns or in FSO/SEA events for convoys, barges, trains, etc. That would probably be helpful on town killing and strat.
Me, I'd love to have the 12-gun nose.
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And the point of the original post was?
All it sounds like is you don't like it so it must be a bad choice.
Ironic that there are so many complaints about the voting or plane choices.
When folks didn't have a choice ie; the arena changes...they whined and complained.
Now that they had a vote on the next plane....they still complain.
LOL Sometimes I wonder why HTC even has these boards. They can't win no matter how they play it.
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Originally posted by Guppy35
And the point of the original post was?
All it sounds like is you don't like it so it must be a bad choice.
Ironic that there are so many complaints about the voting or plane choices.
When folks didn't have a choice ie; the arena changes...they whined and complained.
Now that they had a vote on the next plane....they still complain.
LOL Sometimes I wonder why HTC even has these boards. They can't win no matter how they play it.
That may be the case, but like anything else normally only the negative gets heard.there are still more people that did NOT complain. If every person that was HAPPY posted,the boards would be overloaded.:)
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Originally posted by Guppy35
And the point of the original post was?
All it sounds like is you don't like it so it must be a bad choice.
Ironic that there are so many complaints about the voting or plane choices.
When folks didn't have a choice ie; the arena changes...they whined and complained.
Now that they had a vote on the next plane....they still complain.
LOL Sometimes I wonder why HTC even has these boards. They can't win no matter how they play it.
Dan, remember, the guy who said "get them drunk and get them laid, and they STILL won't be happy" was talking about "virtual pilots".
The sour grapes mentality around here is HILARIOUS, but sad. We're getting A NEW PLANE. I would be happy with either plane still in the running. I'd have been happy with several of the others. But, even if I DIDN'T get a plane I personally desired, I could at least be happy we got a new plane, and SOME of the players got something they wanted. I'm no Spitfire fan, and I don't care to see a constant flow of Spitfires. However, several of my friends ARE Spitfire fans. I was happy they got a couple of new ones, even if I don't care for them. HTC asked us what we wanted, and gave us a chance to choose. We're getting a new plane, and some other goodies, again, we're getting MORE for our money. I can't see what all the whining and condescending posts are about.
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Originally posted by Krusty
The B-25 would be a great attacker, with the solid nose. Give it a glass nose and all of a sudden you have a plane that MUCH better suited to all FSO and SEA events than the B-26 normally is.
Better suited? Because it can be more historically accurate for some events in SEA and AvA?
In most every other way, the B-25 performance numbers are all worse than the B-26's numbers are. Less ord, slower climb rate, slower speed, similar defensive mounts, lower performance. As far as game mechanics go, the Mitchell is just a gimped Marauder for skinners to play with and SEA / AvA use.
I also don't think the B-25 will be a "great attacker", at least not in LW. Maybe MW, depending on the model developed (and you can find someone to attack). The Mossie, A-20, and IL-2 should still fly circles around it. The JUG can carry more rockets, if that's what you like. A single shot, manually re-loaded 75mm intended for anti-shipping operations not going to be that effective in the game. What kind of range would it have? How accurate? Osties and M-16's will chew a Mitchell up in-game if it has to get in close with the 75mm.
And the crowd goes....
(http://www.thesmilies.com/smilies/indifferent0028.gif) (http://www.thesmilies.com) (http://www.thesmilies.com/smilies/indifferent0008.gif) (http://www.thesmilies.com) (http://www.thesmilies.com/smilies/indifferent0005.gif) (http://www.thesmilies.com) (http://www.thesmilies.com/smilies/indifferent0029.gif) (http://www.thesmilies.com)
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b25..what is the point
Two words.
DOOLITTLE RAID!
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A20 is helpless?!:huh
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Originally posted by tedrbr
Better suited? Because it can be more historically accurate for some events in SEA and AvA?
In most every other way, the B-25 performance numbers are all worse than the B-26's numbers are. Less ord, slower climb rate, slower speed, similar defensive mounts, lower performance. As far as game mechanics go, the Mitchell is just a gimped Marauder for skinners to play with and SEA / AvA use.
I also don't think the B-25 will be a "great attacker", at least not in LW. Maybe MW, depending on the model developed (and you can find someone to attack). The Mossie, A-20, and IL-2 should still fly circles around it. The JUG can carry more rockets, if that's what you like. A single shot, manually re-loaded 75mm intended for anti-shipping operations not going to be that effective in the game. What kind of range would it have? How accurate? Osties and M-16's will chew a Mitchell up in-game if it has to get in close with the 75mm.
And the crowd goes....
(http://www.thesmilies.com/smilies/indifferent0028.gif) (http://www.thesmilies.com) (http://www.thesmilies.com/smilies/indifferent0008.gif) (http://www.thesmilies.com) (http://www.thesmilies.com/smilies/indifferent0005.gif) (http://www.thesmilies.com) (http://www.thesmilies.com/smilies/indifferent0029.gif) (http://www.thesmilies.com)
Translation? Waaa, I didn't get the plane I wanted. :cry
-Sp0t
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Seems the ones complaining the most are probably first person shooter Vets.
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After reading the post about Toad's dad... I don't give a damn what planes are/were up for a vote. Look gents... we have a real life WWII pilot vet who would love to have the chance to virtually fly his old bird. No, the B-25 was not my origional choice at all. But I sure as hell will change my vote to honor and give this gentleman his due. There will be more planes coming in time. Maybe even your favorite. There shouldn't be any doubt whatsoever about the customer service at HTC. Until then, patience. Think about what you can do for a hero of many.
$0.02
Coach
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Originally posted by SELECTOR
i don't really care what plane wins..but i really don't see the point of the b25 to be even considered in the first place..
Originally posted by tedrbr
In most every other way, the B-25 performance numbers are all worse than the B-26's numbers are. Less ord, slower climb rate, slower speed, similar defensive mounts, lower performance. As far as game mechanics go, the Mitchell is just a gimped Marauder for skinners to play with and SEA / AvA use.
Yes, what's the point? In fact, what is the point of anything in the game set? Yes! It is all clear! No one wants to fly an under-performer, so Uber-planes for everyone! They should just make it so that the only planes available are the Tempest for a fighter and the B-24 for a bomber. Make it a two-plane arena, and EVERYONE will be happy. Hooraaaaayyyyy!!!!!!!
Would that make you happy?
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Originally posted by Krusty
The A-20G is all but helpless. , etc..
imop, the A20, damage settings are wrong,it can take 2-3 x37mm Flak hits , killing GVs, but.......................... ......................if is hit by few.50cals/ 20mm from fighter ,A20 dissipate like a fart in the wind
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Coach
They don't get it. It appears that the BBS has become a daycare center also. I don't get what I want I'll hold my breath until I do.
I also am voting for the B25 for a veteran that flew them. I also hope that if it wins the skin of his B25 (Quitch) will be the default skin in the hangar.
We are losing more and more WW2 Vets everyday. I can think of no better way to honor someone then to actually place his aircraft in the Aces High Inventory. Since he is the father of a player in the Aces High Community makes it of utmost importance to many of us here.
Now...as to complaints about the B25. And...is this a Sim or is this a game?
If it is a Sim ( that's how many of us view it who don't fly for points and a free toaster with every 262 kill) The B25 flew in all theaters of WWII in many variants by more then a few countries. So.....if you do regard this as a Sim I'd say that the B25 would be the pick because of its widespread successful service. The P39 was a moderate success. Not really regarded in high esteem by many. On the other hand I've never heard nor read anything bad about the B25. It was a fine medium bomber, attack aircraft, and anti shipping aircraft. The P39 was made the butt of jokes. Some the RAF gave back or we took back (think they had hispano 20mm cannon in hub) and were called the P400. Pilots called the P400 a P39 with a Zero stuck on it's tail (A65M2).
So don't scoff at the B25.......compare its' service record to the P39s.
One was outstanding....the other an also ran. Half of the P39s that were made were sent to Russia. Don't know if figure is correct but from what I've read 9,558 is the approx. number of P39s produced with 4,773 sent to Russia. Approximately 11,000 B25s were produced which were flown by the USAAF and the RAF in all theaters.
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Originally posted by Guppy35
LOL Sometimes I wonder why HTC even has these boards. They can't win no matter how they play it.
Dont you get it Dan? Its there for their amusement! Their probarbly laughing hteir socks off at the storm being stirred up! lol. I am! Come on, its a new freekin plane! Be hppy! PLUS we get the Firefly PLUS new Terrain features! WTF are you guys complaining! You complain about the plane drought, now its ended you complain because it was 'The wrong plane' -----i.e You dont like it so dont add it! Heck I dont like Zekes (they can turn with my Hurri Mk1) So DELETE IT! Joke btw. If you want a plane, chances are HT may have it in store anyway! Personally I think that list of 10 planes is already under construction. Ive never heard of a G.55! Where did that come from? The He 111 is sorely needed for the events arena. Russian Bombers will fill out the plane set for the ruskies a little bit, Japanese fighter? Right on, well needed! Invader? Heck probarbly needed as well! I think Ht is planning on adding ALL of those planes. So quit yer weeping! Maybe if you shut up with the complaining, HT will be happier to add more planes knowing that there wont be a huge uproar of 'OO No, Dont add THAT! I dont like that plane!' Boo hoo! New plane, try it out! I bet maybe some of yous will love it! :aok Thanks HT for adding a new plane, New Tank and New terrains to an already great game!
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Originally posted by tedrbr
Better suited?
Yes. Better suited.
As in: B-26 out-runs most mid-war planes.
As in: B-26 is closer to a "heavy" bomber than a "medium" (compare bombload and defensive armament)
As in: B-26 was a later addition to the war, and while it served in numbers, it's use was eclipsed by the use of the B-25. Similar to the B-29 being a good bomber, but it wasn't used in nearly as many areas, and in nearly as many numbers, as the B-17 (now sub B-26 for B-29, and B-25 for B-17 and it's the same thing)
As in: 4 50cals in the nose is enough to make a nuisance. With the limited ammo a B-26 might take down a couple of buildings, after making several passes. The B-25 with either 12-gun nose or 75mm nose would be able to take down half a dozen or more buildings, not counting the bombs it carries and rockets.
As in: Not everything in this war is 1945. MOST scenarios or events in this game (which have upwards of 350 people in them, AT ONCE, sometimes) have to substitute aircraft which don't fit. The Boston III is too fast for 109Es or hurricanes to catch. The B-26 is far more heavily armed than and performs better than anything you substitute it for, if you wish to do a mid-war event. The Ki-67 is a TERRIBLE sub for the Betty, being far too fast and able to out perform the Betty in many ways.
So, yes, the B-25 is "better suited" to many aspects of this game, than the B-26 is. The B-26 cannot sub for much, but the B-25 fills a major hole (ESPECIALLY for mid-war bomber escort/intercept setups!!!) and can even sub for similar mid-war aircraft.
"Better suited," indeed.
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Ya know...I'm gonna say ditto on Coach.
Yanksfan lost his dad Not but a coupla days ago...
This should be a wakeup call to all of us.
If we have a chance, at all, to give something back to someone who did all the things most of us in this game can only sit down and act out on our screens...Then by all means, we should put aside our own petty differences and concerns, unite as a community, and be something worthy of flying with a true WWII vet.
I know that most of the votes have already been cast, but for this reason, I'd hope that even if the B-25 loses, we could get the Mitchell added soon.
The old vets don't get younger, you know.
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Originally posted by SELECTOR
i don't really care what plane wins..
If you dont care...why are you complaining?
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Originally posted by Krusty
The A-20G is all but helpless.
Really? If you believe it's helpless, than you should have no trouble beating my A-20 in the late war fighter of your choice. Heck, I'll even fly a Boston.
I'll be in the TA this Wednesday evening (traveling on business prior to that).
I promise, you will find either of them anything but helpless.
My regards,
Widewing
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Widewing, I do believe you can back that challenge up. I myself have out-fought a c2 in a boston III to the point of flying him into the ground after 5 minutes.
However, in a situation where you're not dogfighting (where you're trying to get ord on target) you are a sitting duck. Any small-caliber MG hits anywhere on a boston will pop it, it seems. A-20G has a similar bug/issue/feature. While the A-20G does have a nice weapons package it is limited in performance. It's not a fighter. If you fly it heavy you cannot avoid death. If you fly it light, what good is it against the target? Yes, A-20s can kill other aircraft, but when you've got an objective to get to, it's pretty much fodder, if you catch it.
I have flown it enough to know its weaknesses outweigh its strengths.
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Originally posted by SELECTOR
i don't really care what plane wins..but i really don't see the point of the b25 to be even considered in the first place..
..... apart from scenarios i can't see it being anything but a hanger queen..
salute all..
this will make sense to you in 2 or 3 years
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Originally posted by Coach
After reading the post about Toad's dad... I don't give a damn what planes are/were up for a vote. Look gents... we have a real life WWII pilot vet who would love to have the chance to virtually fly his old bird. No, the B-25 was not my origional choice at all. But I sure as hell will change my vote to honor and give this gentleman his due. There will be more planes coming in time. Maybe even your favorite. There shouldn't be any doubt whatsoever about the customer service at HTC. Until then, patience. Think about what you can do for a hero of many.
$0.02
Coach
Bingo! Well stated Coach!
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Originally posted by Husky01
Two words.
DOOLITTLE RAID!
Welcome to the Do-Little Raid
Arena: SEA
Country Percentages:
Allied - 16 pilots and up to 16 gunners as attendees. (Anyone else can watch from vulchers row as they -- try to -- take off. Wave and cheer.)
Axis - everybloodybody else of attendees
Allies Units
- B-25B's 100% of Allied aircraft (all 16 of them)
Axis Units:
- A6M2 60%
- Ki-61 10%
- Ki-67 10% for coastal patrols, since IJN/IJA lack the Mitsubishi G3M "Nell" and Mitsubishi G4M "Betty", among others in game.
- Ki-84 20% * since we lack the Kawasaki Ki-45 "Nick", Nakajima Ki-44 "Tojo", Nakajima Ki-43 "Oscar", early model N1K's "George", or Nakajima Ki-27 "Nate".
Allied Orders:
B-25's must take 4 X 500 pound bombs
B-25 Gunners must fire off all rear/ventral ammo upon take off to simulate broomsticks in their place.
B-25's will fly un-escorted NOE to attack targets in Tokyo, Yokohama, Kobe, Osaka, and Nagoya. Allies will then fly on to land in China.
Fuel load at 100%
Launch from CV "Hornet" (Allies have multiple lives to try and get off the deck) Eight (8) map grids (200 miles) away from Japan's coast.
Axis Orders
Axis pilots must take 100% fuel.
Only 1/2 of the Axis pilots be in the air at the event's start. Other 1/2 can take off after Allies have been spotted. Rotating air patrols is permitted as well as hot-padding.
Axis pilots only have 1 life (to give to the Emperor)
Restrictions:
No formations.
B-25's must fly on the deck until coast of Japan is sighted.
Ki-67's cannot proceed pass 75 miles (3 grids) from Japan's shoreline until Allies spotted.
No other patrol plane can fly more than 50 miles (2 grids) from Japan's shoreline until Allies spotted.
IJN and IJA pilots must pretend they do not know the Allies are coming to attack Japan.
Victory Conditions
Standard SEA point values.
B-25B - 35 points
A6M2 - 15 points
Ki-67 - 15 points
Ki-61 - 15 points
Ki-84 - 15 points
factory objects - 15 points
Arena Settings
Terrain: Japan
Fuel: 1.5
Icons: short
Radar: off
Bomber F3 Mode: On
Killshooter off
Time of Day: 11:00am
Wind: West at 50 knots above 10,000 feet.
Design By
tedrbr
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Whatever plane wins will go the way of the jeep.
Popular at first, two months later, all but forgotten.
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Originally posted by Husky01
Two words.
DOOLITTLE RAID!
and thats the ONLY reason the B25s gona win.... all the hype around Pearl harbour etc.
everyone whos voted B25 wants a Doolittle raider.....nothing else.
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I also agree that it is a wasted opportunity.
At least once the B-25 is added, it can be used in Combat Tour (if it has a glass nose).
In the MA it won't really add anything which we do not have already.
410 would have been better for CT in my opinion though, would have been great attacking the bomber formations in it.
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Originally posted by Anyone
and thats the ONLY reason the B25s gona win.... all the hype around Pearl harbour etc.
everyone whos voted B25 wants a Doolittle raider.....nothing else.
Dont believe everything you read here in the whinings. I could probably name a dozen scenarios/uses off the top of my head for the Mitchel that have absolutely nothing to do with any movie or launching 25's off of a carrier. Although I do get a chuckle every time I read that^.
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Originally posted by Anyone
and thats the ONLY reason the B25s gona win.... all the hype around Pearl harbour etc.
everyone whos voted B25 wants a Doolittle raider.....nothing else.
Did you even read about Toad's dad in this thread?
Bronk
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Originally posted by Anyone
and thats the ONLY reason the B25s gona win.... all the hype around Pearl harbour etc.
everyone whos voted B25 wants a Doolittle raider.....nothing else.
Funny I prefer Hanover Street myself. Or Catch 22. Actually most of all 30 Seconds over Tokyo.
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Did you even read about Toad's dad in this thread?
What about those who read about eskimo's dad-in-law?
Is his dad less important than Toad's dad?
Me, I've always wanted to see a VVS mid-war plane in AH, and thought a P-39N with Pokryshkin's markings would be a great addition. Suddenly, a bunch of people comes along and starts chanting "dad", and now I've become a bad person who won't give up what he wants for an elderly, nostalgic gentleman.
Frankly, while the sympathetic motivations are understandable, emotional pleas should never have been involved in the first place. For one thing, it makes people who don't want the B-25 seem like an apathetic moron, when all they are doing is just wanting the plane they'd love to fly.
As if you romantics can't make this voting doohickey any less uglier than it already has become.
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Originally posted by Kweassa
What about those who read about eskimo's dad-in-law?
Is his dad less important than Toad's dad?
Me, I've always wanted to see a VVS mid-war plane in AH, and thought a P-39N with Pokryshkin's markings would be a great addition. Suddenly, a bunch of people comes along and starts chanting "dad", and now I've become a bad person who won't give up what he wants for an elderly, nostalgic gentleman.
Frankly, while the sympathetic motivations are understandable, emotional pleas should never have been involved in the first place. For one thing, it makes people who don't want the B-25 seem like an apathetic moron, when all they are doing is just wanting the plane they'd love to fly.
As if you romantics can't make this voting doohickey any less uglier than it already has become.
Kweassa, I'm just pointing out the reasons for voting for an AC.
I am not ignoring Eskimo's father-in-law. This is a B25 thread.(See other thread where I have had brief discussion with Eskimo.)
People trying to sway others to not voting for the B-25 because of a poorly made movie???? Pathetic, the b25's service record speaks for it .
The waa waa factor because their pet plane lost is truly amusing.
While I'm sure furby did the whole Ben Affleck thing trying to get a rise out of people. People like Ted who are now using it in an attempt to sway the vote are bitter losers.
I will be happy if either AC gets in.
Bronk
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Originally posted by Bronk
This is a B25 thread.
Starting post and topic leaves the distinct impression of being an anti-B25 thread.
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Originally posted by Husky01
Two words.
DOOLITTLE RAID!
One word... NO
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Originally posted by Kweassa
What about those who read about eskimo's dad-in-law?
Is his dad less important than Toad's dad?
Me, I've always wanted to see a VVS mid-war plane in AH, and thought a P-39N with Pokryshkin's markings would be a great addition. Suddenly, a bunch of people comes along and starts chanting "dad", and now I've become a bad person who won't give up what he wants for an elderly, nostalgic gentleman.
Frankly, while the sympathetic motivations are understandable, emotional pleas should never have been involved in the first place. For one thing, it makes people who don't want the B-25 seem like an apathetic moron, when all they are doing is just wanting the plane they'd love to fly.
As if you romantics can't make this voting doohickey any less uglier than it already has become.
Extremely well said.
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It matters not a whit what plane makes it in the game. If the P-39 makes it in, that's fine. If it can somehow be skinned in a way that honors Eskimo's father-in-law, I think that would be a very fine thing.
Let me reiterate what I really think about this whole voting process and I said this early on when (I think) all the planes were still in the running:
Toad:
What ever plane they choose won't change the game. Most of the choices getting touted will be primarily hangar queens in the MA. They might see some use in special events but the vast majority of the player base doesn't participate.
So the what the game needs approach falls on deaf ears with me. Another airplane is not what the game needs. It doesn't matter what plane or how many planes are added.
What the game needs is people who like to fight in airplanes against other airplanes; sadly, that isn't going to happen.
So, they're just adding planes; might as well be one that I see a good reason to add, even if that reason has nothing to do with the game.
I still see it that way. If the B-25 makes it in, I will indeed commission a skinner to do a Quitch version and have it submitted. That would be a gesture from me to honor my father. Whether anyone else thinks that is "right" or "just" or "fair" is pretty immaterial to me.
I salute Eskimo's dad and ALL the others who served in whatever aircraft. But I think it is understandable that I would like to see Quitch in the game and preferably while my father is alive to see it fly the virtual skies.
Vote how you like; I did.
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well said toad
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Originally posted by Murdr
Starting post and topic leaves the distinct impression of being an anti-B25 thread.
Agreed, its still a b25 thread.
:D
Bronk
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What a sad bunch of petty little juvenile sniveling whining crybabies.
If you've ever wondered why the people here who know REAL World War II pilots NEVER invite them here, this crap is EXACTLY why.
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I will indeed commission a skinner to do a Quitch version and have it submitted.
Toad ... I would be knocking on Fester's door if the B-25 makes it.
You gotta see the new P-51 skin he just got done with ... absolutely incredible.
:aok ... on the B-25
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But I think it is understandable that I would like to see Quitch in the game and preferably while my father is alive to see it fly the virtual skies.
This isn't about you, or your father Toad. Your motivations I find plenty understandable, and I myself would have probably leaned in favor of it, were it not I had my own favorite choice. It's about people going down the Crusade path chanting "in the name of (Toad's) Father...".
It's completely reasonable for people to bring up reasons why a certain plane might be better than the other - they've all got a certain point to make as to why one advocates a certain choice. Heck, even the obnoxious G.55 threads had some good reasons to think about.
That was until some people started the Crusade(I am accusing the others, not Toad), and started using "Toad's dad" as the answe to every thing - a challenge of ethics. When someone brings up why he likes this or that plane, the idiots come in swarming and chanting, "what about Toad's dad?"
Right.
How could we ever resist, or even dare to have a different opinion, or bring up reasons to object the B-25, when someone starts bringing up the noble cause of "honoring a real war-time pilot".
That's why I just had to comment, "what about eskimo's dad?"
So, to all those honor-loving folk out there, eskimo also wants to honor his father in law, who became one of his best friends of life, and also was a war-time veteran, whom eskimo wants to honor by voting the P-39.
If your motivations are really geared towards honoring a real hero, then why the B-25? Why not P-39? What compelled you to choose one father over the other father?
Yes, it's a rude and cruel question, and I am sorry to both Toad and eskimo for it, but it has to be asked. Not because I acutally want an answer, but merely to illustrate my point that when people start getting personal over these sort of things, things tend to get ugly.
And really, really, ugly, that is.
Now, the deed is done, and people already went down that path. What will happen if the B-25 does not make it? Someone is going to get really upset about it, and even if Toad doesn't comment anything about it, someone else is bound to start knitpicking how fighter jocks ruined things, how they can't even honor a real veteran, and blah blah blah. The same thing's gonna happen if the P-39 doesn't make it, and those involved in this personal emotional quest is bound to be upset.
In the end, by going down this path, people's feelings are gonna get hurt no matter which plane wins.
Thanks, ye romantics, you've made this vote a truly wonderful and enjoyable experience.
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Actually, it's about people expressing their preference for the next plane addition by voting for it.
Frankly, I think your high dudgeon over what constitutes a legitimate reason for voting is also immaterial and pointless.
People will vote for whatever they want for reasons they personally find of value or logical or interesting or whatever.
If they come here and share them with others, that's their business as well.
You see it as some sort of Crusade. Your perception is your perception and you are entitled to it.
To me it is just people voting for what they desire to see for whatever reason.
It's really no different than a Finn wanting to see a Brewster in the game with the possible exception that a specific individual is mentioned in the case of the B-25 and the P-39.
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It's really no different than a Finn wanting to see a Brewster in the game with the possible exception that a specific individual is mentioned in the case of the B-25 and the P-39.
In the end it is the existence of the 'specific individual' that makes the difference between the Brewster and the B-25, Toad.
I wouldn't have gone so far with this crappy subject, if only some people haven't started using your father's honor as the reason to shut someone up. Like you said, everybody's got their reasons.
Unfortunately, some people believe they've found a "holier-than-thou" reason than most others, and started using it to make people who don't want the B-25 (for down-to-earth reasons) look like a disloyal, unhonorable, selfish person who only wants his own fun, instead of honoring a hero.
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Originally posted by Kweassa
In the end it is the existence of the 'specific individual' that makes the difference between the Brewster and the B-25, Toad.
I wouldn't have gone so far with this crappy subject, if only some people haven't started using your father's honor as the reason to shut someone up. Like you said, everybody's got their reasons.
Unfortunately, some people believe they've found a "holier-than-thou" reason than most others, and started using it to make people who don't want the B-25 (for down-to-earth reasons) look like a disloyal, unhonorable, selfish person who only wants his own fun, instead of honoring a hero.
I hope your not reading that much into my post.
If you are, you're way off.
I was replying to this.
Originally posted by Anyone
and thats the ONLY reason the B25s gona win.... all the hype around Pearl harbour etc.
everyone whos voted B25 wants a Doolittle raider.....nothing else.
If I voted for the B-25 I would have considered much more than the above.
Theaters served in and Russian usage also plays a part.
Toad's father is one part of it.
Same for the P-39
Almost identical theater usage and allied usage.
Not to mention Eskimo's father-in-law.
Either one of these AC fills more holes than the other AC that were up to the vote. I'm glad it made it down to these two.
Bronk
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Originally posted by Kweassa
In the end it is the existence of the 'specific individual' that makes the difference between the Brewster and the B-25, Toad.
[/b]
Hardly; a reason is just a reason, nothing more, nothing less. There are no reasons to put a plane in a game that are any more or any less noble or logical or important or justifiable than any other reason. After all, it's just a minor factor in a minor little game played by a very small minority of the people on this earth.
I wouldn't have gone so far with this crappy subject, if only some people haven't started using your father's honor as the reason to shut someone up.
What puzzles me is why anyone would try to "shut someone up" in a discussion about which plane to add. I believe I said ealier, vote for what you want; I did.
Why shouldn't each player vote for what he wants?
Why does there have to be a "right" choice?
IMO, the only right choice is the one a particular individual makes. Anyone else's opinion on what I or you or Eskimo or any other player votes for is meaningless. We all vote for what we want for want ever reasons we find important to us.
Unfortunately, some people believe they've found a "holier-than-thou" reason than most others, and started using it to make people who don't want the B-25 (for down-to-earth reasons) look like a disloyal, unhonorable, selfish person who only wants his own fun, instead of honoring a hero.
How people announce their individual preferences and their individual reasoning is another one of their choices.
Again, I certainly don't see it as a "Crusade"; I see it as a personal opportunity and a personal vote.
I haven't really read through this thread in search of holier-than-thou attitudes though. The entire BBS is one big argument about inconsequential things though, so I don't see why this thread would be any different.
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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
If you've ever wondered why the people here who know REAL World War II pilots NEVER invite them here, this crap is EXACTLY why.
How true; I was going to send my father a link to some of this but I have now decided against doing that.
Too much bile for no good reason and I don't think he'd understand it.
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I've voted for the P39 since the start, but am I going to stamp my feet and whine like some on these forums? No...
Get over your over-blown feelings of self-worth, no one cares about your opinion, just let the voting process take place.
(Edit: this was not aimed at anyone... just asking some of the whiners to 'grow up')
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Originally posted by Kweassa
In the end it is the existence of the 'specific individual' that makes the difference between the Brewster and the B-25, Toad.
I wouldn't have gone so far with this crappy subject, if only some people haven't started using your father's honor as the reason to shut someone up. Like you said, everybody's got their reasons.
Unfortunately, some people believe they've found a "holier-than-thou" reason than most others, and started using it to make people who don't want the B-25 (for down-to-earth reasons) look like a disloyal, unhonorable, selfish person who only wants his own fun, instead of honoring a hero.
Kweassa , I generally pay attention to what you have to say, but in this case you are so far off base I can't believe it's you saying it.
If a reason for wanting the 25 is to honor a player's father, then so be it. That to me is far more motivation then wanting some uber ride for the latewar again.
To suggest that makes it 'holier-then thou' to have that motivation is just silly. Funny, the reason I want the 39 too is that I know a P39 pilot who I have a great deal of respect for. To get a chance to 'fly' that bird would be a great experience for me, as it might in some small way give me a feel for what he went into combat with.
Would escorting Toad's dad in an AH B25D strafer give me that same sort of feeling? You bet. Again, it's why I'm torn between the two. The history is what makes me play the game, trying to imagine something I've spent my life trying to learn more about and understand.
So please get off your soap box and quit type-casting us for thinking this way. If that makes me holier then thou, then you better get used to it, cause that's what drives me to play.
If you feel guilty because I said that was a reason I wanted the plane, then that's your problem. Get over it.
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Firstly, I am very impressed by those folk whose knowledge and love of aircraft places them so firmly behind their hobby. From my point of view, its encouraging that there is so much enthusiasm for old planes that would be for the most part forgotten and left in some forgotten part of the Smithsonian. Old manuals and forgotten statistics are being dusted off and treasured, scrutenized and debated because some people in the flight sim communities actually love aircraft history. Imagine what life would be like if nobody even cared what plane was next up.
Secondly, were my emotions not so totally burnt out, I might have joined in the debate, allowing my blood to boil and cheering on the honoured old relic like a star quarterback but, as I said. I dont think anything is lost regardless of what plane AH chooses for the next ride. The experience itself has merit to those flightsimmers who are entrenched in this hobby.
Thirdly, I voted for the B25. Actually, I was going to spoil my vote because of my apathy but I felt the B25 is so widely entrenched in the flight sim community it was about time that we were given a chance to compare a AH version to those already in existance.
Fourthly, it would be nice to see some of the contenders rendered into 3D before the world ends.
RASTER
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The BBS is just an extension of the game.
Some of you need to lighten up.
If you are not having fun, you should question why you are here.
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I read a couple of post about someone's father being a WWII vet involving the B-25. My father was a flight engineer on the B-25 and flew it on numerous occasions. We went to an air show when I was younger and he actually found a B-25 that he had flown! He had the serial numbers on all of the planes he had the privilege of serving in and matched one to this plane. The current owner took him up that afternoon and let him take the controls. 50 years after risking his life in that plane he was able to take it for a joyride. I think voting for the B-25 would be a great way to honor our vets. I voted for the 25 and hope it makes it as I believe it will be a valuable assest to our gameplay experience. I for one would use it frequently.
Caliber
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:)
I never thought that I was honoring my local vets by voting Brewster in the 1st round. I know tens of better and proper ways to honor them. Could anyone really feel proud telling some vet that you have honored him by voting for a certain plane in a certain game? :huh
I believe people here vote to get themselves a new plane to fly and/or to shoot down... nothing much more.
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I want to fly from a carrier like ben aflak!
THAT is the point.
hah, happy easter. :p
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It would be great to honor the war vets by having their plane and skin in the game who can fly them in the virtual world. Its great Hitech gave subscribers the right to vote on a plane they like, I voted A-26 because it was my favorite from the AirWarrior days. If its rolling a B-25 or P-29 to honor the vets who we fly with or taking another out for a spin and parking it in the hanger to collect rust its what we voted for. :)
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This will be my one and only comment about putting planes to a vote. I hope HTC returns to surprising us with their choice of planes. Perhaps that was the intended lesson?
It's a sad and shameful thing that Toad is reluctant to let his father take a peek in here.
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Originally posted by Rolex
I hope HTC returns to surprising us with their choice of planes.
Seconded.
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The motion is carried. I never expected such a display of pettiness and immaturity. I wouldn't be surprised if Pyro and the rest of the staff are regretting ever giving us the opportunity. I'd be surprised if they repeated the error in judgment. Then again, they may be laughing hysterically at the fools.
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Originally posted by Guppy35
The history is what makes me play the game
Well. How silly.
You must be missing the message that these boards have been proclaiming for a week. Performance is everything. If the new plane isn't of the highest performance, judged by 1945 standards, then it's a loser, and you are implicitly a loser for wanting it.
Geez. You have to really spell things out for people these days.
- oldman
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Originally posted by Oldman731
Well. How silly.
You must be missing the message that these boards have been proclaiming for a week. Performance is everything. If the new plane isn't of the highest performance, judged by 1945 standards, then it's a loser, and you are implicitly a loser for wanting it.
Geez. You have to really spell things out for people these days.
- oldman
Yeah, well, some of us old bastards are a little dense. Perhaps someone could draw us a picture.
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well i certainly didn't expect so much interest in my post.
firstly my post wasn't a whine, i waited untill the last round before i posted it. it was basically an observation in what i believe a missed opetunity.and a experience in this game ( 6 years) to know whats gonna be hot and whats not..
secondly, flag wavers should stick to the O club or thread that invite flag waving..your flag may not be mine, i while i feel indebted to the guys who have fought in wars. this is a game and that sort of thing dosn't belong in this thread. both my grandfathers took part in WW2 and i would never think of using them as a political pawn in here..
..
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Originally posted by Oldman731
Well. How silly.
You must be missing the message that these boards have been proclaiming for a week. Performance is everything. If the new plane isn't of the highest performance, judged by 1945 standards, then it's a loser, and you are implicitly a loser for wanting it.
Geez. You have to really spell things out for people these days.
- oldman
All part of my sinister plan to ruin Aces High!
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Originally posted by Ball
The BBS is just an extension of the game.
Some of you need to lighten up.
If you are not having fun, you should question why you are here.
some people get away with far too much, while others get in trouble for saying boo
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Originally posted by Anyone
some people get away with far too much, while others get in trouble for saying boo
Example?
Bronk
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Originally posted by Bronk
Example?
Bronk
there aint even any point going into it. Nothing is gona change
edit your sig is a perfect example.
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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
The motion is carried. I never expected such a display of pettiness and immaturity. I wouldn't be surprised if Pyro and the rest of the staff are regretting ever giving us the opportunity. I'd be surprised if they repeated the error in judgment. Then again, they may be laughing hysterically at the fools.
I think HTC did this to try and eclipse the BK MOAT ... but came up short ... ;)