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General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: FrodeMk3 on April 09, 2007, 12:20:03 PM

Title: What model will it be, HTC?
Post by: FrodeMk3 on April 09, 2007, 12:20:03 PM
Ok, now that the voting is over(Thank God), What model of the B-25 did you guys have in mind? Just curious, I'll fly whichever...
Title: What model will it be, HTC?
Post by: Rino on April 09, 2007, 01:11:21 PM
Sure hope we don't have to vote on that! :D
Title: What model will it be, HTC?
Post by: NoQtr on April 09, 2007, 01:16:28 PM
No!, let the voting begin.
Title: What model will it be, HTC?
Post by: Mr No Name on April 09, 2007, 02:20:27 PM
Next will be the "If I had known this was what we were getting, I would have voted for the _______" threads!  LOL  :rolleyes:
Title: What model will it be, HTC?
Post by: Xargos on April 09, 2007, 02:28:30 PM
Make it the ones they used on the Doolittle Raid...No Guns.:t
Title: What model will it be, HTC?
Post by: Pyro on April 09, 2007, 02:37:37 PM
I'd like to see the C, H, and J in that order.  Whether all of those can make the next version will depend on how fast it goes to make the shapes.
Title: What model will it be, HTC?
Post by: Ball on April 09, 2007, 02:39:05 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Pyro
I'd like to see the C, H, and J in that order.  Whether all of those can make the next version will depend on how fast it goes to make the shapes.


Could it have one version and have the additional loadouts as perk options (in the discussed perk ord/guns changes) ?
Title: What model will it be, HTC?
Post by: Pyro on April 09, 2007, 02:45:15 PM
Nope, that only works when the armament is really the only difference between variants.
Title: What model will it be, HTC?
Post by: Ball on April 09, 2007, 02:50:05 PM
Ahh i see...

So C-hog... Spitfires using the universal wing with quad 20mm etc..

Changing the Hurri IID to the IV would be great :)
Title: interesting blurb on B-25
Post by: humble on April 09, 2007, 03:14:46 PM
The Mitchell was also an amazingly sturdy aircraft that could withstand tremendous punishment. One well-known B-25C of the 321st Bomb Group was nicknamed "Patches" because its crew chief painted all the aircraft's flak hole patches with high-visibility zinc chromate paint. By the end of the war, this aircraft had completed over 300 missions, was belly-landed half a dozen times and sported over 400 patched holes. The airframe was so bent that straight-and-level flight required 8° of left aileron trim and 6° of right rudder, causing the aircraft to "crab" sideways across the sky.
Title: Re: interesting blurb on B-25
Post by: eskimo2 on April 09, 2007, 03:22:50 PM
Quote
Originally posted by humble
The Mitchell was also an amazingly sturdy aircraft that could withstand tremendous punishment. One well-known B-25C of the 321st Bomb Group was nicknamed "Patches" because its crew chief painted all the aircraft's flak hole patches with high-visibility zinc chromate paint. By the end of the war, this aircraft had completed over 300 missions, was belly-landed half a dozen times and sported over 400 patched holes. The airframe was so bent that straight-and-level flight required 8° of left aileron trim and 6° of right rudder, causing the aircraft to "crab" sideways across the sky.


I used to fall down a lot and now have to do that just to walk straight.
Title: What model will it be, HTC?
Post by: blkmgc on April 09, 2007, 03:30:39 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Pyro
I'd like to see the C, H, and J in that order.  Whether all of those can make the next version will depend on how fast it goes to make the shapes.


Good choice. That would cover just about evrey theatre  I believe. I might even have to break into my skin building tools again. :)

cheers
Title: What model will it be, HTC?
Post by: eskimo2 on April 09, 2007, 03:32:24 PM
(http://www.b25.net/images/b25nosegunfs.JPG)

That's a lot of glass to model, but it sure is pretty.

Here's a pretty cool B-25 site:
http://www.b25.net/

Cool favicon.ico too: (http://www.b25.net/favicon.ico)
Title: What model will it be, HTC?
Post by: eskimo2 on April 09, 2007, 03:40:51 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Pyro
I'd like to see the C, H, and J in that order.  Whether all of those can make the next version will depend on how fast it goes to make the shapes.


Are the C and J similar enough to build one airframe and then adjust for the different weight, armament & performance and release in one patch?  Or is the solid nose H not that hard to model anyway?

Actually, I’m assuming something here; the C and J will have glass noses and the H will be solid, right?
Title: Re: interesting blurb on B-25
Post by: Karnak on April 09, 2007, 04:52:38 PM
Quote
Originally posted by humble
The Mitchell was also an amazingly sturdy aircraft that could withstand tremendous punishment. One well-known B-25C of the 321st Bomb Group was nicknamed "Patches" because its crew chief painted all the aircraft's flak hole patches with high-visibility zinc chromate paint. By the end of the war, this aircraft had completed over 300 missions, was belly-landed half a dozen times and sported over 400 patched holes. The airframe was so bent that straight-and-level flight required 8° of left aileron trim and 6° of right rudder, causing the aircraft to "crab" sideways across the sky.

I would really need to see some MAJOR documentation to back that up.  Right now I file it in the same category as the N1K2-J squad that shot down 12 Hellcats for no loss, e.g. fiction.


FYI, so far as I know the most combat sorties completed by any airframe in WWII was 217 by a Mosquito B.Mk IV.
Title: What model will it be, HTC?
Post by: frosty on April 09, 2007, 05:01:45 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Xargos
Make it the ones they used on the Doolittle Raid...No Guns.:t


Warning:
Not particularly effective against an Me- 262...

(http://www.solutionsplusoutlet.ca/broom.jpg)
Title: Re: Re: interesting blurb on B-25
Post by: Masherbrum on April 09, 2007, 05:07:38 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Karnak
I would really need to see some MAJOR documentation to back that up.  Right now I file it in the same category as the N1K2-J squad that shot down 12 Hellcats for no loss, e.g. fiction.


FYI, so far as I know the most combat sorties completed by any airframe in WWII was 217 by a Mosquito B.Mk IV.


I've only seen it on Wiki and another site.   I would concur and like to see Documentation of this.
Title: What model will it be, HTC?
Post by: Warspawn on April 09, 2007, 06:12:00 PM
Yay for the H model!!

(http://everquest2.247xtreme.com/albums/userpics/10028/normal_b25h.jpg)


Yummy; 75mm under the quad .50's in the nose, then 6 more in blisters and the top turret for a total of 10...

"The 75mm gun was the lighter T13E1 which had been designed specifically for the B-25H.  It also mounted four fixed forward-firing .50-calibre machine guns in the nose, four more fixed ones in forward-firing "blister" mounts on the fuselage sides, two more in the top turret, one each in a pair of new waist positions, and a final two in a new tail gunner's position.  Company promotional material bragged that the B-25H could "bring to bear ten machine guns coming and four going, in addition to the 75mm cannon, a brace of eight rockets and 3000 pounds of bombs."  Fourteen hundred B-25Gs and B-25Hs were built.  The 75mm cannon fired at a muzzle velocity of 2,362 fps, about 720 m/s.  Due to its low rate of fire approximately four shells could be fired in a single strafing run..."
Title: What model will it be, HTC?
Post by: 68slayr on April 09, 2007, 06:27:45 PM
lol let it go off the CV so i can collect the proxys as they hit the water...or if the make i'll swoop in on them as they shoot at me with broomsticks:rolleyes: :t
Title: What model will it be, HTC?
Post by: AX_00 on April 09, 2007, 08:05:30 PM
ya, i really hope its the H they give us, i only voted for the 25 because of that and doolittles raid. is it possible to fly this in formation? imagine 3 75mm at ur disposal?
Title: Re: Re: interesting blurb on B-25
Post by: eh on April 09, 2007, 10:18:31 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Karnak
I would really need to see some MAJOR documentation to back that up.  Right now I file it in the same category as the N1K2-J squad that shot down 12 Hellcats for no loss, e.g. fiction.


According to my source (Gunston) it was 14 Hellcats lost and it was one of the first Ki-100 squadrons over Okinawa that did it in 1945, without a loss to themselves. I am no authority on expert documentation of WWII aviation history, but apparently Bill Gunston qualifies.

Still, "urban myth" type stories get repeated by those who should know better, and this may be one such myth about WWII (but why would Americans spread such a story?). Anyway it should be easy enough to check out for anyone who is interested.
Title: What model will it be, HTC?
Post by: Karnak on April 09, 2007, 10:49:05 PM
Well, given our great capability at producing airframes, that aircraft would ahve been used as spare parts long, long before it got to a condition where it had to "crab through the air" in order to fly a straight course and was so shot up it's skin's structural integrity (remember, in stressed skin aircraft the skin is a crucial part of the aircraft's strength) was that comprimzed.


Yes, it was Ki-100s.  There is also an N1K2-J story.  I think it was the one versus a squad of Hellcats in which 4 Hellcats were downed and the N1K2-J survived.  Both the Ki-100 and N1K2-J stories are demonstratably falsified by US loss records.
Title: What model will it be, HTC?
Post by: Saxman on April 09, 2007, 11:00:09 PM
I'm SURE I'd seen a photo of Patches somewhere, but I can't find it now. :(
Title: Re: Re: interesting blurb on B-25
Post by: Kev367th on April 09, 2007, 11:31:13 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Karnak
I would really need to see some MAJOR documentation to back that up.  Right now I file it in the same category as the N1K2-J squad that shot down 12 Hellcats for no loss, e.g. fiction.


FYI, so far as I know the most combat sorties completed by any airframe in WWII was 217 by a Mosquito B.Mk IV.


Close -

Was GB*F for Freddie Ser No. LR503

Built early 1953 it was a B IX not B IV.

Flew 213 (most of any allied aircraft in WW2) operational missions.

Crashed in Calgary May 10 1945.

Curiously - The Smithsonian Institute used to claim it's B-26B "Flak Bait" flew the most operational missions.
Title: Re: Re: Re: interesting blurb on B-25
Post by: Ball on April 10, 2007, 02:04:31 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Kev367th

Built early 1953 it was a B IX not B IV.
 


:huh :confused:

:D
Title: What model will it be, HTC?
Post by: Nilsen on April 10, 2007, 02:10:33 AM
There will be no do-little raids unless you land on the cv to rearm.
Title: What model will it be, HTC?
Post by: Ball on April 10, 2007, 02:15:33 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Nilsen
There will be no do-little raids unless you land on the cv to rearm.


There will be plenty of dolittle raids...  because it will be a hangar queen which doesnt carry much ord!

Dolittle - do little, get it? har har!

I'm here all week.
Title: What model will it be, HTC?
Post by: mentalguy on April 10, 2007, 06:48:38 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Ball


I'm here all week.



That's the most annoying part.
Title: What model will it be, HTC?
Post by: Rino on April 10, 2007, 07:39:45 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Karnak
Well, given our great capability at producing airframes, that aircraft would ahve been used as spare parts long, long before it got to a condition where it had to "crab through the air" in order to fly a straight course and was so shot up it's skin's structural integrity (remember, in stressed skin aircraft the skin is a crucial part of the aircraft's strength) was that comprimzed.


Yes, it was Ki-100s.  There is also an N1K2-J story.  I think it was the one versus a squad of Hellcats in which 4 Hellcats were downed and the N1K2-J survived.  Both the Ki-100 and N1K2-J stories are demonstratably falsified by US loss records.


     The 5th AF was at the back end of the supply chain...playing 2nd or 3rd
fiddle to the European and Med theaters as regards resupply.  It wouldn't
be all that far out of line for a flyable aircraft to continue to be used even
if not perfect.
Title: Re: Re: Re: Re: interesting blurb on B-25
Post by: Kev367th on April 10, 2007, 10:03:11 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Ball
:huh :confused:

:D


Eek should be 1943 of course :)
Title: What model will it be, HTC?
Post by: Karnak on April 10, 2007, 11:20:25 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Rino
The 5th AF was at the back end of the supply chain...playing 2nd or 3rd
fiddle to the European and Med theaters as regards resupply.  It wouldn't
be all that far out of line for a flyable aircraft to continue to be used even
if not perfect.

Not in the condition described there it wouldn't.  That is so far from perfect it isn't funny.  Crabbing through the sky would mean that it couldn't keep up with the other bombers or that the whole formation would need to go much slower.  Also, we go back to the 213 sorties of the Mosquito B.Mk IX as being the established record number of sorties by an airframe in WWII.

Sorry, it looks very much to me to be the same as the outlandishly optimistic Japanese kill claims.
Title: What model will it be, HTC?
Post by: Ball on April 10, 2007, 12:19:13 PM
Quote
Originally posted by mentalguy
That's the most annoying part.


LOL nicely done sir :D
Title: What model will it be, HTC?
Post by: Bor3d on April 10, 2007, 11:20:10 PM
I hope we get the H model, that'll be brutal in TT :t
Title: What model will it be, HTC?
Post by: SkyRock on April 10, 2007, 11:57:03 PM
Wow!
Title: What model will it be, HTC?
Post by: nickf620 on April 11, 2007, 01:41:52 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Bor3d
I hope we get the H model, that'll be brutal in TT :t


and now think of how hard that thing will be to aim
Title: What model will it be, HTC?
Post by: tedrbr on April 11, 2007, 02:10:50 AM
quote:Originally posted by Bor3d
I hope we get the H model, that'll be brutal in TT


Quote
Originally posted by nickf620
and now think of how hard that thing will be to aim


Why think?  Simulate.

Grab a B-26, run it at less than full power to simulate the B-25's performance.  Try to tag a tank in TT with a single ping/quick, short burst from the forward .50's (to simulate the 75mm with it's slow firing, manually loaded - while not under G's - system) before an Ostie, M16, or fighter takes you out.  You see a hit sprite, you can figure a hit (but not necessarily a kill.)

Figure at least 5 seconds between shots and 20 shots at most.  Loader unstraps a round, puts the round in the loader, rams the round home, closes the breach, and informs the pilot the round is up..... all while not under pulling G's with the platform (that one might be hard to simulate in-game).

B-25 with an 75mm on-board for anti-shipping is not an A-10.
Title: What model will it be, HTC?
Post by: brucerer on April 11, 2007, 02:55:58 AM
An A-10 would be cool. We could pretend it came through a Red-Alert Chronoshift :D
Title: What model will it be, HTC?
Post by: Simaril on April 11, 2007, 12:25:25 PM
Quote
Originally posted by brucerer
An A-10 would be cool. We could pretend it came through a Red-Alert Chronoshift :D


Or Not.