Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: SKDenny on April 12, 2007, 09:29:38 PM
-
They didn't tell us in the notes of the latest patch that they did move the south pad hangers to far apart on the mid size fieldto be able to kill FH's in one pass.
What else can they dream up to make bombing ineffective. Maybe like AW tilt the wings more than 5 degrees and they fall off.
At least have the guts to tell us what you change so we don't get stumped when we encounter the situation
SKDenny
-
Just make another run or get more bomber pilots to fly with you. It should take more than 1 or 2 bomber pilots to shut down an airfield.
-
Originally posted by SKDenny
What else can they dream up to make bombing ineffective.
I think they've done plenty do make it overly effective as it is, what with your newfangled F-117 laser guided munitions and laser guns. Buffs needed to be watered down, and this was a pretty smart way to do it without messing with your rides.
I think they spread the fighter hangers out because people were getting pissed off at good furballs being broken up by individual buff pilots who had no plan of actually trying to capture said field.
And perhaps they just forgot to put it in the notes?
-
Originally posted by SKDenny
At least have the guts to tell us what you change
The guts? LOL, what do you think they were afraid of angering you so they omited it on purpose just to avoid your wrath?
so we don't get stumped when we encounter the situation
I can't for the life of me figure out how someone can be smart enough to up a set of buffs, fly all the way to an enemy field, and succesfully kill a hanger, yet not be able to extend out, turn around and make another run. Unless of course you're flying across the field 50ft off the ground and one run is all you get before the ack and fighters chew you up.
I give this whine a 2, not even worth spawning a WAAAAAAAAMBULANCE.
-
Uhm... Tango said it pretty good I think.
This will hopefully force bomber pilots to group together a wee bit more often.
-
Tango said it nicely.
Geary needs to grow up and learn from Tango's post.
-
And Spermit needs to get off my ankle.
-
Originally posted by SKDenny
They didn't tell us in the notes of the latest patch that they did move the south pad hangers to far apart on the mid size fieldto be able to kill FH's in one pass.
What else can they dream up to make bombing ineffective. Maybe like AW tilt the wings more than 5 degrees and they fall off.
At least have the guts to tell us what you change so we don't get stumped when we encounter the situation
SKDenny
I feel your pain SKDenny. HTC, please change it back so one person can shut down fighter operations at a field in a single pass!!!!
At least we can still kill a CV in one pass with divebombling Lancs!!! :D Unless of course HTC decides to ruin that for us in the next patch.
:noid
-
:rofl
-
Originally posted by SKDenny
They didn't tell us in the notes of the latest patch that they did move the south pad hangers to far apart on the mid size fieldto be able to kill FH's in one pass.
What else can they dream up to make bombing ineffective. Maybe like AW tilt the wings more than 5 degrees and they fall off.
At least have the guts to tell us what you change so we don't get stumped when we encounter the situation
SKDenny
while i used to be against anything that "hurt" bombers, have you looked at a REAL WWII airfield?
the hangers/hardstands arnt lined up in neat rows for the enemy to bomb with ease.... they are spread out, all over the place.
its more realistic this way.
and as the others said, we have lazer guided bombs, with the easy mode bombsite.... 1 single bomber couldnt shut a airfield down in real life, so why should it in the game?
-
Auto calibrate bomb site is a standard MA setting.
(means you don't have to hold the crosshairs on a fixed point during calibration)
Zero wind layers seems to be a standard now.
(used to be at least 1 wind layer in MAs)
If that ain't dumbed down enough for ya, rearranging the hangers won't help ya either.
-
Excellent thread :D
-
Originally posted by Geary420
[B
I give this whine a 2, not even worth spawning a WAAAAAAAAMBULANCE. [/B]
:lol well said man!
-
Originally posted by Geary420
Spermit
:rofl :rofl
-
Originally posted by SKDenny
They didn't tell us in the notes of the latest patch that they did move the south pad hangers to far apart on the mid size fieldto be able to kill FH's in one pass.
Must they tell you everything? Sounds cool to me.
-
Originally posted by SKDenny
They didn't tell us in the notes of the latest patch that they did move the south pad hangers to far apart on the mid size fieldto be able to kill FH's in one pass.
What else can they dream up to make bombing ineffective. Maybe like AW tilt the wings more than 5 degrees and they fall off.
At least have the guts to tell us what you change so we don't get stumped when we encounter the situation
SKDenny
Wow you were stumped?? :rofl
-
you don't need to calibrate the bombsite anymore?
good grief.
-
If HTC really wanted to mess up your buffing, I'd suggest that each field had a totally different hanger layout. I can already hear the whines about that one. What fields in WWII were had the exact same layouts for each type of base?
All the Best and ducking for cover...
Jay
awDoc1
-
Originally posted by SKDenny
What else can they dream up to make bombing ineffective.
Well, for starters, they could make bombing more realistic.
-
Wow, these DEMANDS are entertaining.
I wish my ego was to the point I thought the game revolved around my personal insights :)
So you have to change your bombing strategy, big deal. Bring a bigger bomber. That's what I do.
Now if you want to complain about solo-suicide La7s diving thru ack and porking ord all over the place, I might even agree with ya :cool:
-
Originally posted by SKDenny
They didn't tell us in the notes of the latest patch that they did move the south pad hangers to far apart on the mid size fieldto be able to kill FH's in one pass.
What else can they dream up to make bombing ineffective. Maybe like AW tilt the wings more than 5 degrees and they fall off.
At least have the guts to tell us what you change so we don't get stumped when we encounter the situation
SKDenny
Once again, I respectfully refer you to the Home Page for AH......
"WWII Combat Experience"
In all my reading, watching of programs, studies of WWII, I have NEVER seen just one or two BUFF's desimating ANY target.
It was always pretty large groups of BUFF's.
Point being, I don't feel HT is trying to hamstring people who like to fly Bombers.....They are trying to make it more realistic.....IMHO.
So get a bunch together, up a mission and flatten a base in one pass.
-
Dummest post EVEAH!!!!
-
Haha
yep,,,,,,possible lamest post ever
-
Originally posted by 68Boomer
It was always pretty large groups of BUFF's.
...
So get a bunch together, up a mission and flatten a base in one pass.
Maybe they need to up the formation sizes from 3 to 20, and give them Maverick missiles. But I still don't think the buffers will be happy until they are utterly invincible and all-powerful. :rolleyes:
-
Originally posted by frosty
Maybe they need to up the formation sizes from 3 to 20, and give them Maverick missiles. But I still don't think the buffers will be happy until they are utterly invincible and all-powerful. :rolleyes:
Nawww...what they have now is fine....what is needed by some is a working knowledge of a little concept that was used a few decades ago that prevented us from speaking German or Japanese today.........
TEAMWORK!:aok
-
This wouldn't be an issue if we had Little Boy (no, I'm not making a sly reference to Kermit's sexual preferences) or Fatman.
ack-ack
-
You know, even if we did have NOOOOOOOOOOOOKZ some would still manage to miss with them then come here to ***** about how the blast radius is not big enough.
-
Originally posted by SKDenny
They didn't tell us in the notes of the latest patch that they did move the south pad hangers to far apart on the mid size fieldto be able to kill FH's in one pass.
Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaa!:rofl
-
:O
-
(http://untitledname.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/07/kermit-the-frog.jpg)
not like this..........
-
WoW only 2 pages of anti whining. I am not impressed
But I will invite Frosty and Geary420 to gun my laser gunned plane to show me just how great the gunning is on bombers. You say when and where and I will be there. Do you guys even fly I didn't see anything under the scores by your names
To the rest of you great ideas I will consider them all.
SKDenny
-
Umm, didn't see where I even mentioned the laser buff guns? Also, I am on hiatus for a bit, but go back a few tours and check under TecNineX if your really that concerned about scores.
-
Originally posted by SKDenny
But I will invite Frosty and Geary420 to gun my laser gunned plane to show me just how great the gunning is on bombers.
ahhh...the little gun shake when you fire throwing your aim off?
ack-ack
-
Originally posted by Ack-Ack
ahhh...the little gun shake when you fire throwing your aim off?
ack-ack
WHAT gun shake, I didn't notice any gun shake.
SKDenny
-
Them schemeing suckas at HTC!I knew they hated Buffs lol!Denny ur good enuff in buffs,they trying to test your skill a mite :lol
ID
-
Originally posted by SKDenny
WoW only 2 pages of anti whining. I am not impressed
But I will invite Frosty and Geary420 to gun my laser gunned plane to show me just how great the gunning is on bombers. You say when and where and I will be there. Do you guys even fly I didn't see anything under the scores by your names
*sniff* *sniff* *lower lip trembling*
No, sorry, no favors for the angry crying toolshedder. :p
To the rest of you great ideas I will consider them all.
SKDenny
What, teaming up with people? Yeah. I think they were semi-mocking you for not figuring that out on your own.
But yeah, with that grain of wisdom, you'll be toolshedding again in no time.
-
Woooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oo!
:lol
-
Originally posted by IronDog
Them schemeing suckas at HTC!I knew they hated Buffs lol!Denny ur good enuff in buffs,they trying to test your skill a mite :lol
ID
You got it right IronDog they try and try to stop me but I always find a way to get the job done, and I will this time.
Frosty sorry that you won't accept my invite, I would have loved to see your gunning skills. As to joining up I fly with the The SkyKnights and Flying Tigers, we have many bombers up every Tues, Fri and Sun. I wonder if you fly at all, or just bad mouth people that do
SKDenny
-
Bombers are easy mode for dweeebs! Three easy mode lives and still you hear them beetching about everything. :rolleyes:
-
Originally posted by Shuffler
Wow you were stumped?? :rofl
he flys bobmers. the things that stump him are likely to be legion.
-
NOw they go and get rid of the money shot on medium airfields???
Guess I will have to call in a few squaddies to go with me.. :aok
Kevin
-
Originally posted by SkyRock
Bombers are easy mode for dweeebs! Three easy mode lives and still you hear them beetching about everything. :rolleyes:
Skyrock, I 've seen you do ALOT as well.
-
Originally posted by Tango
Skyrock, I 've seen you do ALOT as well.
bombers have it the easiest in this game, they dont neccesarily have to be able too fly well, they dont have to be able to shoot well....as one ping is 36 bullets, and they get 3 lives! EASY MODE!!!!!!!!!!!!:aok
-
Originally posted by SkyRock
bombers have it the easiest in this game, they dont neccesarily have to be able too fly well, they dont have to be able to shoot well....as one ping is 36 bullets, and they get 3 lives! EASY MODE!!!!!!!!!!!!:aok
And if you had your way there would be one bomber for one pilot with only one gun position firing at a time.
THEN we would rarely see any bombers in game as it is in other sims. If any at all. Bombers are just fine the way they are. Maybe you should bring along a wingman when attacking a bomber formation. Just like the bomber pilot that started this thread should bring along other pilots.
This isn't a game where 1 fighter pilot should be able to deciamte a bomber vic single handedly OR 1 bomber vic decimating an entire airfield single handedly.
-
I guess it could be worse.. we could go back to the old AW bombers :)
Turning 17s with 6 individualy manned guns. Just didn't have formations.
-
Denny, look at it this way....fog O war :)
-
bombing is way to easy anyways. my 11 year old kid bombs for me sometimes. who cares if they moved the hangers apart i think it was a smart move. but it takes an even smarter person to learn how to over come it. try lining up diffrently like take two bombers instead of one one group hit small pad one group hit large pad thats simple enough one pass hangers are down.
-
This thread makes me :rofl :rofl :rofl
-
Didnt stop ME from shutting down an airfield... hell, if anything it makes it easier because it gives you a better line on other hangars... Really, if you know your stuff, (This is coming from a dedicated bomber pilot) it shouldnt even fase you. If something like moving a hangar is enough to through off your bomber stike, you have no right calling yourself a bomber pilot.
-
Originally posted by Serenity
Didnt stop ME from shutting down an airfield... hell, if anything it makes it easier because it gives you a better line on other hangars... Really, if you know your stuff, (This is coming from a dedicated bomber pilot) it shouldnt even fase you. If something like moving a hangar is enough to through off your bomber stike, you have no right calling yourself a bomber pilot.
Well I sure do appreciate all of the help given in here, Maybe I should be in a squad, so I can learn more about bombing. I will no longer call myself a bomber pilot. Thanks guys and I will see you in an arena near you soon
SKDenny
-
Originally posted by SKDenny
Well I sure do appreciate all of the help given in here, Maybe I should be in a squad, so I can learn more about bombing. I will no longer call myself a bomber pilot. Thanks guys and I will see you in an arena near you soon
SKDenny
You can always fall back to "Bobbsey Twin" :D
-
Originally posted by doc1kelley
If HTC really wanted to mess up your buffing, I'd suggest that each field had a totally different hanger layout. I can already hear the whines about that one. What fields in WWII were had the exact same layouts for each type of base?
All the Best and ducking for cover...
Jay
awDoc1
or at least make them comoflauged like in WW2, not all shiny and silver.
-
Next thing they need to do is move the hangers at V Bases so that they eliminate the "one-pass" shutdown.
-
That would be great Slapshot. Make TT and a few other places on the different maps that usually have good gv fights, a little more difficult to ruin the fun.
-
Originally posted by SlapShot
Next thing they need to do is move the hangers at V Bases so that they eliminate the "one-pass" shutdown.
Actually, I agree, and yet I dont. I think that yes, they need to make it harder to shut down a V-Base, but in real life, the motor-pool was consolodated just like in the game. So then it becomes a question, which is more important, realism or difficulty?
And SKDenny, no problem! II Gruppe Kampfgeschwader 200 would GLADLY take you in and teach you how bombing really works!
-
Well...ya GOTTA admit that being able to shut down a medium field in 1 pass, but NOT a small field, was kinda silly--hope they spread out Vbase hangars next
-
Originally posted by Serenity
And SKDenny, no problem! II Gruppe Kampfgeschwader 200 would GLADLY take you in and teach you how bombing really works!
I do appreciate the offer Serenity, but I was just putting you on.
I have been a bomber pilot for more than 14 years now. I am a member of the
SkyKnight Bomber Group and have been for 14 years.
Look at the original post, I was disappointed that AH didn't have anything in the text of updates about it, and I found out about it on my approach to a mid field on the first night of the patch. I just thought they should have listed the change that's all. no big deal.
SKDenny
-
(http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/1899/47411517908141ic9.jpg)
-
twinboom ;)
-
hello anyone
-
Originally posted by SKDenny
I do appreciate the offer Serenity, but I was just putting you on.
I have been a bomber pilot for more than 14 years now. I am a member of the
SkyKnight Bomber Group and have been for 14 years.
Look at the original post, I was disappointed that AH didn't have anything in the text of updates about it, and I found out about it on my approach to a mid field on the first night of the patch. I just thought they should have listed the change that's all. no big deal.
SKDenny
Sorry denny, that was actually my being sarcastic as well. I agree, they should have listed it. I just think that the original post came across more as a complaint that they made the change, as well as assuming that they tried to be sneaky and hide it. HTC are humans too, they forget things just like you and I. Im sure it simply slipped under the radar.
-
Originally posted by mars01
Dummest post EVEAH!!!!
be real there are a lot more dumber things than this posted here
This wasnt great but the thread has been entertaining..
-
Originally posted by Murdr
Auto calibrate bomb site is a standard MA setting.
(means you don't have to hold the crosshairs on a fixed point during calibration)
Zero wind layers seems to be a standard now.
(used to be at least 1 wind layer in MAs)
I fly bombers quite often and I would welcome a more realistic calibration and wind layers. It does amaze me that some people can't bomb accurately with the current system.....
I'd also welcome the Sperry (?) retractable ball turret in the 24 for a little more speed....
-
Originally posted by ddoug
I fly bombers quite often and I would welcome a more realistic calibration and wind layers. It does amaze me that some people can't bomb accurately with the current system.....
Actually, while you can hit just fine, you can make your calibration even MORE acurate with the old hold-the-crosshairs thing. It makes calibration quicker and more accurate, so people like us can still hit targets from 20,000 feet with more accuracy than some dweeb at 5,000
-
Originally posted by TwinBoom
(http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/1899/47411517908141ic9.jpg)
:lol
-
Could you imagine the whining if HTC covered the hangers and strats with camo netting as they did and do in real life!?
-
Originally posted by Serenity
Actually, while you can hit just fine, you can make your calibration even MORE accurate with the old hold-the-crosshairs thing. It makes calibration quicker and more accurate, so people like us can still hit targets from 20,000 feet with more accuracy than some dweeb at 5,000
Most buff drivers just don't have the patience for the hyper accuracy the game is capable or doing. It's not the sight in use. Either can be made to work well in-game.
Most buff drivers keep their buffs at full throttle, and the buff tends to keep gaining altitude, despite being "level". They do a quick calibration just before drop to try and make up for that. Then salvo. Some Kentucky windage. Come in low and dive buff a target with big salvos (bring the 88mm FlaK36 to AHII!).
If they'd just roll back on RPM and/or MAN a little. Get stable and level. Line up well ahead of time. Do a long calibration. They could hit accurately with salvo 1 and 2 from 20K most of the time. It's easy. I've spent a few afternoons trolling high over a base, hitting every strat with 500 lbs bombs on salvo 1 from 20-25K, and swatting down a few pilots that try to crawl up to my altitude from my low-six position,....and landing a few kills in the end.
That they moved a few things around to prevent single runs killing everything? No problem. Just takes an extra pass or two. Or another set of buffs. It can be done easily enough.
-
Originally posted by Tango
And if you had your way there would be one bomber for one pilot with only one gun position firing at a time.
THEN we would rarely see any bombers in game as it is in other sims. If any at all. Bombers are just fine the way they are. Maybe you should bring along a wingman when attacking a bomber formation. Just like the bomber pilot that started this thread should bring along other pilots.
This isn't a game where 1 fighter pilot should be able to deciamte a bomber vic single handedly OR 1 bomber vic decimating an entire airfield single handedly.
I agree to an extent. I would not want the formations changed or the guns changes (unless someone can prove the 50 cals on the bombers are so much different than any other US 50 cal in the game).
What I would like to see is the end of the GPS guided bombs. It should not be that easy to hit a target on the ground. We also need some wind above 10K. This would cause wind drift on bombs and would also include the added benefit of bringing the noskilled dweebs down of their alt perch. 'Cause if you can't fly well, then you won't be able to fly well in the wind.
Heavy bombers should not be able to take out an airbase even with several formations in one pass. The primary attack method for airbases and CV's should be Jabo. We also need increased puffy ack at air fields. Not the proximity fuses like on the carriers just plain old puffy ack.
-
Originally posted by tedrbr
Most buff drivers just don't have the patience for the hyper accuracy the game is capable or doing. It's not the sight in use. Either can be made to work well in-game.
Most buff drivers keep their buffs at full throttle, and the buff tends to keep gaining altitude, despite being "level". They do a quick calibration just before drop to try and make up for that. Then salvo. Some Kentucky windage. Come in low and dive buff a target with big salvos (bring the 88mm FlaK36 to AHII!).
If they'd just roll back on RPM and/or MAN a little. Get stable and level. Line up well ahead of time. Do a long calibration. They could hit accurately with salvo 1 and 2 from 20K most of the time. It's easy. I've spent a few afternoons trolling high over a base, hitting every strat with 500 lbs bombs on salvo 1 from 20-25K, and swatting down a few pilots that try to crawl up to my altitude from my low-six position,....and landing a few kills in the end.
That they moved a few things around to prevent single runs killing everything? No problem. Just takes an extra pass or two. Or another set of buffs. It can be done easily enough.
lol. I remember when I used to do that... (The full throttle, I NEVER dive-bombed in heavies) I know, its SOOOOO much more efficient to adjust your revs and MP, my god! I just learned how to do the hold-the-crosshairs, and my bombing accuracy quadrippled! Its amazing how much more you can get out of these bombers...
-
Originally posted by Clifra Jones
I agree to an extent. I would not want the formations changed or the guns changes (unless someone can prove the 50 cals on the bombers are so much different than any other US 50 cal in the game).
What I would like to see is the end of the GPS guided bombs. It should not be that easy to hit a target on the ground. We also need some wind above 10K. This would cause wind drift on bombs and would also include the added benefit of bringing the noskilled dweebs down of their alt perch. 'Cause if you can't fly well, then you won't be able to fly well in the wind.
Heavy bombers should not be able to take out an airbase even with several formations in one pass. The primary attack method for airbases and CV's should be Jabo. We also need increased puffy ack at air fields. Not the proximity fuses like on the carriers just plain old puffy ack.
NO! NO! NO! NO! NO!!!!!
Alright, YES, make bombs less acurate. Yes, increase puffy ack. Make it as lethal as it was in real life! But do NOT add wind up high! These little girls never fly their bombers over 5k as it is, dont give them an excuse to stay low! I say add wind at ALL altitudes. I really do want to see wind in this game, I just dont want to discourage high-altitude flying.
-
Originally posted by Clifra Jones
What I would like to see is the end of the GPS guided bombs. It should not be that easy to hit a target on the ground. We also need some wind above 10K. This would cause wind drift on bombs and would also include the added benefit of bringing the noskilled dweebs down of their alt perch. 'Cause if you can't fly well, then you won't be able to fly well in the wind.
Heavy bombers should not be able to take out an airbase even with several formations in one pass. The primary attack method for airbases and CV's should be Jabo. We also need increased puffy ack at air fields. Not the proximity fuses like on the carriers just plain old puffy ack.
Actually, the "no skilled dweebs" are already low and dive buffing your bases now. Buff pilots up high that are not good tend to create golf courses off the airbases with their runs, or carpet bomb the runway itself. Single salvoing a base strat from 20K actually takes a little skill and common sense.... and most fighter pilots too lazy to come all the way up there after them.... and many that do make easy targets of themselves on the approach.
And airfields have *no* puffy ack, and haven't had any for a while now. Suggestion has been made before to add the German 88mm FlaK36 to the game to give players, among other things, a manned puffy ack ability to engage high bombers on short notice in defense.
But, there is only one way to make many of the anti-buff crowd happy:
Get ride of the drones,
Limit sustained speeds to 60% on bombers (but 100% on fighters),
Don't slave turrets to gunner position,
Perk ord on bombers,
Add crossing winds at various levels,
Bring back old bomb sight,
Make FH's indestructible (GV'rs will want their indestructible too)
Allow bomb release only from level flight,
Park all bombers at the back of the hangar to only be seen again in skin viewer.
-
Originally posted by frosty
I think they've done plenty do make it overly effective as it is, what with your newfangled F-117 laser guided munitions and laser guns. Buffs needed to be watered down, and this was a pretty smart way to do it without messing with your rides.
I think they spread the fighter hangers out because people were getting pissed off at good furballs being broken up by individual buff pilots who had no plan of actually trying to capture said field.
And perhaps they just forgot to put it in the notes?
None of the munitions are laser guided. It takes a lot of work to learn the technique of calibration and salvo of 1 bombing.
As far as laser guns go...well if one climbs up my 6 and all I have to concern my self about is range and then physics takes over. Your bullets chase me, mine have their muzzle veloctity and your closing speed working for them.
Some of us have found the actual WWII gunner manuals (available for ordering on-line) and studied them. The gunnery priniciples in the old manuals applies today both in simulation and the real deal.
All you want to do is furball? Dueling arena is available for that. Oh, no one in significant numbers there? Nuff said.
-
Originally posted by 2Slow
All you want to do is furball? Dueling arena is available for that. Oh, no one in significant numbers there? Nuff said.
I hear the dueling arena is for Dueling, not for Furballs.
I hear for furballs, the MA is good.
-
You get drones, an ez bombsight and very effective guns, what else do you want?
Suck it up.
-
Originally posted by Engine
I hear the dueling arena is for Dueling, not for Furballs.
I hear for furballs, the MA is good.
True. I stand corrected.
The thing I enjoy most is planning and executing attacks with a single stick salvo.
I just like the shock an awe of seeing a stick of 12 500, 16 250, or 24 100 pounders strike a target and stay with in the targets boundaries. It works well and looks great against a town, strat city, or any of the factories.
One pass, one bomb release, and RTB.
Granted, multiple pickle attacks can be more efficient. I just like the WWII feel of watching the entire load strike the target.
-
WHOAH!!! Can anyone say Frankenstein???
-
2slow, stop resurrecting dead threads :lol
-
Originally posted by Krusty
2slow, stop resurrecting dead threads :lol
It lives! :aok
I was looking for a thread to see if strat's were enabled anymore and stumbled across this one.
-
Originally posted by 2Slow
It lives! :aok
I was looking for a thread to see if strat's were enabled anymore and stumbled across this one.
If they disabled Strats... I would be reconsidering my account. Strategic bombing is still my bread and butter.
-
Originally posted by SKDenny
What else can they dream up to make bombing ineffective.
ha. read up on WWII....1/2 the time the bufs didnt even hit their target. You were very lucky to hit all 4 in one pass...
-
Originally posted by Squire
You get drones, an ez bombsight and very effective guns, what else do you want?
That ppl stop shooting at me when i bomb? :D
-
Not to mention warp-speed engines.
-
Originally posted by Xasthur
Not to mention warp-speed engines.
You dont call a B-17 at high alt warp-speed?!?
-
Let's put it this way: Historically fighters never had problems catching heavy bombers at any alt. There are no stories of LW pilots that just couldn't catch up to that bomber that was in front of them and walking away.
-
Originally posted by Krusty
Let's put it this way: Historically fighters never had problems catching heavy bombers at any alt. There are no stories of LW pilots that just couldn't catch up to that bomber that was in front of them and walking away.
If you can't catch buffs in LW planes in AH2, check your throttle calibration. Pressing P for WEP might help you too. :aok
-
I never noticed they made the sights auto-calibrate... I still click and hold steady to calibrate. I just started playing again a few weeks ago for the first time since 2004... I was trying to click the target alt on the map adn was getting mad that it wouldn't update before I realized they removed that part.
Simple solution to help 'dumb down' boming. Wind layer at 8000 feet, and a second wind layer at 15000 feet. Alt monkeys trying to compensate for 2 different windlayers... good luck hitting anything
-
Originally posted by SKDenny
They didn't tell us in the notes of the latest patch that they did move the south pad hangers to far apart on the mid size fieldto be able to kill FH's in one pass.
What else can they dream up to make bombing ineffective. Maybe like AW tilt the wings more than 5 degrees and they fall off.
At least have the guts to tell us what you change so we don't get stumped when we encounter the situation
SKDenny
I are teh confused. Why cant you salvo your egs and hit them both in 1 pass? Ahhhhhhhh, I get it, pulling the triger twice is too hard. I'll email HT to fix this issue with the dificalty of bombing. Maybe the can have it so you caouls say BOOOOOOM FH in your vox and the FH blows up?
:noid
-
Originally posted by Tiger
Simple solution to help 'dumb down' boming. Wind layer at 8000 feet, and a second wind layer at 15000 feet. Alt monkeys trying to compensate for 2 different windlayers... good luck hitting anything
At least these 'Alt Monkeys' are flying historically. Its the LOW bombers, attempting to recreate Ploesti that bother me. Lets not make high altitude bombing harder, lets make LOW altitude bombing harder. Force them to be patient and CLIMB, like they did 65 years ago.
-
And let's have them show on radar for 200 miles away (8 sectors, basically the entire map) because historically they were not the stealth weapons they are used as in AH. In AH they pop at the edge of radar and bomb the field before fighters can even get near to them, and get out without a scratch most of the time.
Historically they were known well in advance and fighters had half an hour to climb up to them and engage them.
So, until we know where bombers are IN ADVANCE, let's not talk about historical accuracy. How they are used in AH is anything but historically accurate.
-
Originally posted by Krusty
And let's have them show on radar for 200 miles away (8 sectors, basically the entire map) because historically they were not the stealth weapons they are used as in AH. In AH they pop at the edge of radar and bomb the field before fighters can even get near to them, and get out without a scratch most of the time.
Historically they were known well in advance and fighters had half an hour to climb up to them and engage them.
So, until we know where bombers are IN ADVANCE, let's not talk about historical accuracy. How they are used in AH is anything but historically accurate.
Yeah Krusty, Id agree. Give you 200 miles warning. Fair is fair, and considering the advantages a well-used bomber has at altitude, think its only fair to give you that much warning.
-
I wish the Buffs where slower in Aces High. How fast where they in WWII compared to in here?
-
Historically they never ran full throttle, not even on climbout. Only for takeoff. They used max cruise even in combat. So, how fast was max cruise? That's the debate. Well, stoney would have you believe "max cruise" was only 10mph slower than "full throttle" which I still don't believe.
Other than that, the discussion never got very far last time.
-
this thread is still going, and going, and going and going........................ ........
-
Originally posted by Krusty
Historically they never ran full throttle, not even on climbout. Only for takeoff. They used max cruise even in combat. So, how fast was max cruise? That's the debate. Well, stoney would have you believe "max cruise" was only 10mph slower than "full throttle" which I still don't believe.
Other than that, the discussion never got very far last time.
Max cruise listed for the B-17G is listed as 160... Even at max cruise power settings I do at LEAST 270... I think my book misplaced 160 for 260, but thats what I have listed...
-
Originally posted by Serenity
Max cruise listed for the B-17G is listed as 160...
Its IAS probably.
I like 200mls warning (and radar dot also) :)
-
Fighters would still climb up level on my 6 closer than 1.5 or 1k.
What was a historical ammo loadout on bombers? I usually run out of ammo after I've been chased for a sector by 6 different enemies.
-
The old bombsights need to be put back in the game for bombers.
-
Originally posted by Oleg
Its IAS probably.
Definately.
-
Originally posted by Xargos
The old bombsights need to be put back in the game for bombers.
The current cal method does allow for bombardier error. If they went to the old very difficult way, then give me the E6 readings in the bombsite so that one could work on it.
You can only take realism so far. To get the bombing totally realistic one would need a multi-player crewed bomber. Pilot, bombardier, and a gunner.
It is my thought that the gunnery in the buffs has been toned down to allow poorly planned fighter attacks to have a measure of success.
Historically, attacks from a low 6 climbing were doomed. Now attacks from 12 o'clock level had a success rate. My experience in the game with attacks from the 2 to 4 and 10 to 7 o'clock, horizontal with speed are the most difficult to defend against.
-
Originally posted by 2Slow
It is my thought that the gunnery in the buffs has been toned down to allow poorly planned fighter attacks to have a measure of success.
Historically, attacks from a low 6 climbing were doomed. Now attacks from 12 o'clock level had a success rate. My experience in the game with attacks from the 2 to 4 and 10 to 7 o'clock, horizontal with speed are the most difficult to defend against.
Bomber guns definitely aren't "toned down." Any semi-competent gunner can easily fight off fighter pilot who executes a "poorly planned attack" while maybe losing one bomber of his own. A fighter pilot climbing up on the tail of a formation quickly gets oil or engine damage in a matter of seconds from as far as 1k out.
If you run your bombers full throttle at 15k or higher, then you'll force many fighters to attack you from low 6 as they will be climbing to reach your alt. Of course you could always ask for an escort since unescorted bombers were historically dead meat for fighters.
-
Originally posted by TUXC
Of course you could always ask for an escort since unescorted bombers were historically dead meat for fighters.
:noid BS, everyone knows that the US lost only 1 B17 (and that was due to killshooter) during the war. There are several case of bombers coming back with 9 kills from 1K out. The pilots were recorded complaining afterwards about how unfair the fights were for them
-
Originally posted by Tango
Just make another run or get more bomber pilots to fly with you. It should take more than 1 or 2 bomber pilots to shut down an airfield.
Amen.
-
Originally posted by dedalos
:noid BS, everyone knows that the US lost only 1 B17 (and that was due to killshooter) during the war. There are several case of bombers coming back with 9 kills from 1K out. The pilots were recorded complaining afterwards about how unfair the fights were for them
There are also many evidences of fighter pilots landed 12+ kills per sortie.
-
Originally posted by Oleg
There are also many evidences of fighter pilots landed 12+ kills per sortie.
Same as in AH. If they were vulching they did :D
-
2slow: Pilot error is replicated with the random swing. Imagine a meter. If it's centered the crosshairs are calibrated. Either side means the bombs fall short or long. When you hold the calibration key the needle swings wildly back and forth. Depending on how long you hold it, you could be 20mph off and drop a friggin' mile off target.
The longer you hold it the shorter the "swings" of the needle become, and more likely it will be "calibrated" to your current speed.
There is error built into the system. It takes a little more time to avoid this error, but so would the proper in-flight calibration in real life.
I think it's a fine compromise, but perhaps a bit random. I'd rather have second and third calibrations (after you calibrate within 5mph of current speed) to refine the existing calibration, but instead every time you re-start it, the needle swings wide again.
-
Originally posted by 2Slow
Historically, attacks from a low 6 climbing were doomed.
Not an accurate statement. Many pics of bombers getting shot down from low 6. The LW planes generally climbed faster than the buffs did level! I have several pics of 110's nose up on a buffs low 6 chewing them up! Now, I will say that the majority of bomber kills were from High 6 with much E!:aok
-
In WW2, 300 Bombers where needed to drop on a target to get 1 yes 1 bomb on target, and that with them considering a hit was within 300 yards of target.
i say leave calibration as is but induce 2 things. bombers shouldnt be able to take less then 75% fuel, this would stop some alting of bombers to rediculous alts that didnt bomb from ever in RL.
and make bomb accuracy worse as you alt, say if u bomb 15k or lower make semi very accurate. about 15k as you go higher increase bomb spread during drop. makem have to use more bombs/bombers from high alt
to hit/kill targets.
-
Originally posted by whels
In WW2, 300 Bombers where needed to drop on a target to get 1 yes 1 bomb on target, and that with them considering a hit was within 300 yards of target.
thing is whels, targets generally was huge, spread out compounds, not a small little game tile, or, like the HQ 1 small building.
if bombers aim drops down, we will need bigger targets, however the really bad point someone else already brought up is that NOE bombers are already a problem enough, makin it harder to aim from alt will only make it worse.
Bombers/Strat does need reworking, i agree 100%.
-
Originally posted by whels
In WW2, 300 Bombers where needed to drop on a target to get 1 yes 1 bomb on target, and that with them considering a hit was within 300 yards of target.
i say leave calibration as is but induce 2 things. bombers shouldnt be able to take less then 75% fuel, this would stop some alting of bombers to rediculous alts that didnt bomb from ever in RL.
and make bomb accuracy worse as you alt, say if u bomb 15k or lower make semi very accurate. about 15k as you go higher increase bomb spread during drop. makem have to use more bombs/bombers from high alt
to hit/kill targets.
Without a shadow of doubt this idea above is the most hair brained suggestion to date. :rolleyes:
Whats the plan here ? Turn every single bomber pilot into some kind of LOW LEVEL dweeb. Turn every single bomber pilot into a SUICIDER ? Make bomber piloting even less PALATABLE? ..... absolutely ridiculous.
Want to change bomber lazer accuracy? Give us back the old style of bombing. The one which challenges skill. The one where salvo spread was vital. The one where you had to hold a certain spot to calibrate.
-
Originally posted by 2Slow
Historically, attacks from a low 6 climbing were doomed. Now attacks from 12 o'clock level had a success rate. My experience in the game with attacks from the 2 to 4 and 10 to 7 o'clock, horizontal with speed are the most difficult to defend against.
If that was true then there would not be so much surviving german guncam footage of successful low 6 kills.
In the game things are very different. You have good external views in buffs, gunner has no problem with nerves, clouds, other buffs to be careful of and you have drones that helps you fire on your target. You dont have to ID the plane you shoot and you are not tired, cold and face real death.
-
Originally posted by whels
In WW2, 300 Bombers where needed to drop on a target to get 1 yes 1 bomb on target, and that with them considering a hit was within 300 yards of target.
i say leave calibration as is but induce 2 things. bombers shouldnt be able to take less then 75% fuel, this would stop some alting of bombers to rediculous alts that didnt bomb from ever in RL.
and make bomb accuracy worse as you alt, say if u bomb 15k or lower make semi very accurate. about 15k as you go higher increase bomb spread during drop. makem have to use more bombs/bombers from high alt
to hit/kill targets.
U have pissed off Anyone, and LYNX, u are getting close to hanging wit Das Muppets!:aok
Mark
-
Originally posted by Nilsen
In the game things are very different. You have good external views in buffs, gunner has no problem with nerves, clouds, other buffs to be careful of and you have drones that helps you fire on your target. You dont have to ID the plane you shoot and you are not tired, cold and face real death.
Fighters has most of said benefits as well.
Speaking about bomber vs fighter in AH, any bomber is soft and easy kill as long as you have time and patience to get proper attack position. There are very few exceptions. Making them more vulnerable to "dead 6" attacks will put bombers in huge unfair disadvantage.
There are enough doubtful bomber's features, but "laser guns", "unbelievable toughness" and so just not one of these.
-
If i have the patience to set up properly i _never_ get shot down by buffs. If there are other peeps around that wants the same kills i sometimes have to go straight in and thats when i sometimes get killed.
-
:cry :cry :cry :cry
-
Nilsen, only first sentence was related to you. Others wasnt.
-
German fighters pilots stated also that they used 20 n 30mm cannons, because they could out range the 50cal guns of the bombers. So the fighters could sit out of range and pick at the bombers.
you wont see 20 n 30mm out range 50cal in AH.
-
Story about bomb acuracy.
There were 3 bombs dromped in my home town during WWII (Small vilage in Greece). A Brit convoy running for one of the ports to escape to Egypt was spoted by Stukas (i was told). They dove in and dropped 3 bombs on the convoy. Needless to say, they hit 3 houses. The closest one to the convoy was 3 blocks away. Something to keep in mind when you drop on a panzer from 10K and put the bomb right on it :lol
-
If u havent noticed, Aces High is well known for trying to be authentic, in WW2 bombers had to fly in mass formations to be affective.
No base should be able to be disabled by a lonley buff pilot. and lonly bombers already last longer than they normally would have in real life, atleast your gunner cant be killed.
Yes a good pilot can make quick work of a formation of buffs, but a good buff pilot can also make quick work of a single fighter attacking.
Aces high makes overall game play better for everyone as a group.
If I had to make a suggestion it would be to have one main arena so each side would have over 200 people. Now that would make for some interesting buff runs wouldnt u think.
Also another note, Real buffs in ww2 flew at insane altitudes, thats why they survived, if u fly around no higher than 20k dont expect to make it home.
-
Also just a side note, something to make bombing eaven more easier for ya.
If u drop 12,000 pounds of ordinance directly between 2 fighter hangers, the spash damage is enuf to destroy both, so theres your solution, pick your lines right and u can still drop all FH at some fields with 1 pass.
I will do the math for ya to make it simple for the really tarted ones.
Salvo 4 for 1000 lbs
salvo 8 for 500 lbs
Times those by 3 planes and u got what it takes to drop 2 hangers in one pass.
-
Lancs, 4k cookie. Gives you 9 1k bombs as well.
4k x3 drones = 12k.
-
Originally posted by WaRLoCkL
Also another note, Real buffs in ww2 flew at insane altitudes, thats why they survived, if u fly around no higher than 20k dont expect to make it home.
routine Bomber alts where between i think 12 and 23k. rarely did they bomb from higher alts. 2 reasons. 1 accuracy was way down from higher up, and Fighters of the era needed the buffs lower to be able to cover them effectively. Fighters of ww2 couldnt fly/fight well enough above 25
30k to cover bombers if they also where that high.
-
Alright. Once more. What do you consider 'rediculous' altitudes? B-17s basically STOP climbing at 35,000 feet. They NORMALLY bombed around 20,000. So, STOP B**CHING ABOUT 20K BUFFS! THATS WHAT THE Golly-geeNED PLANE WAS DESIGNED TO DO! You want all the bombers at 5k or less so your ub3r fighters can chew them to pieces. TOO BAD! SUCK IT UP AND CLIMB UP TO THEM!!! Just because you dont have the patience to climb to altitude to pad your score doesnt mean you should force the pilots WILLING to fly their plane WHERE IT BELONGS, to drop back down to a disadvantage! If you dont like 20k bomber formations, and think thats "rediculously high" talk to a SINGLE B-17 or B-24 pilot about where THEY dropped there bombs and WHY they were so high. In fact, if you want to know why bombers like altitude, talk to a survivor of Ploesti. Heres a hint: Bombers on the deck never ends well. So if you want winds at 20k, 15k, or even 12k, GET WINDS ON THE DECK TOO!!! Dont force the realistic pilots to compensate for disadvantages you yourself are unwilling to weather. So climb up, or shut up, but DONT try to force us to the deck. Give me winds, and I will STILL drop your strats, your hangars, and your individual tanks from 20,000 feet with more accuracy than you can dream of. Because I have the patience to COMPENSATE.
-
Well said Serenity.
Realism...true realism would kill the game. No auto combat trim. Not a big deal for the buffs. It would be a killer for the fighters. Imagine having to constantly adjust you trim to maintain controled flight.
Adjust your carb settings to maintain combustion. Tweak this and tweak that just to maintain control.
Realism...I have seen, first hand, the "hangers" used at WWII German and Allied fields. It would only take a 100 pound tnt hit to make the hanger non-operational. Granted, the hangers in AH also represent the combined effort of base personnel, supplies, cantonment areas...and so on to enable the hangers fighter or bomber mission.
Want masses of bombers? Remember the Rooks Joint Operations (RJO)? Now we have ENY, which kills off the numbers.
If 6 fighters attack a formation of 3 B17's (1 pilot and 1 gunner) you have a 3 to 1 advantage. If the fighters have good gunnery skills, then the buffs should suffer. Don't forget the rule of thumb for combat: One can be expected (all things being equal and no handsomehunk mistakes) to resist a 3 to 1 attack and sustain the defense. 5 to 1 and up, the defenders are doomed.
Want to improve your aerial gunnery skills? Check out http://www.oldmanuals.com/gunnery.htm
WWII was a numbers thing. A barrel of fighters against a bucket of bombers.
-
Originally posted by SkyRock
U have pissed off Anyone, and LYNX, u are getting close to hanging wit Das Muppets!:aok
Mark
didnt piss me off, i respect whels and his ideas alot... just not this one :aok
-
Originally posted by Serenity
talk to a survivor of Ploesti.
IIRC only 1 or 2 made it back ?
-
Originally posted by whels
routine Bomber alts where between i think 12 and 23k. rarely did they bomb from higher alts. 2 reasons. 1 accuracy was way down from higher up, and Fighters of the era needed the buffs lower to be able to cover them effectively. Fighters of ww2 couldnt fly/fight well enough above 25
30k to cover bombers if they also where that high.
B-24s typically bombed from between 22k and 26k, with B-17s bombing between 24k and 28k. B-29s could be found at 30k and higher.
As to fighters, the P-47's best altitude was 32k, with the P-38J and P-51D having their best performance at 25k. American escort fighters were optimized for high altitude combat. Japanese and the Luftwaffe fighters were generally out-classed up that high, being engineered for medium altitudes.
I suggest this book: The Mighty Eighth War Manual by Roger A. Freeman. He goes into detail about the operations of the 8th AF, the procedures, altitudes and equipment used.
My regards,
Widewing
-
Originally posted by 2Slow
Realism...true realism would kill the game. No auto combat trim. Not a big deal for the buffs. It would be a killer for the fighters. Imagine having to constantly adjust you trim to maintain controled flight.
Trim doesn't maintain controlled flight. It reduces stick and rudder forces, thus reducing pilot workload and fatigue. Pilots maintain controlled flight.
Bf 109s didn't have rudder trim tabs adjusted by the pilot. They were preset on the ground to suit the pilot's preference. If he flew at a speed where the trim changed, he simply applied constant rudder displacement to keep the ball centered. It could be tiring.
My regards,
Widewing
-
Originally posted by whels
In WW2, 300 Bombers where needed to drop on a target to get 1 yes 1 bomb on target, and that with them considering a hit was within 300 yards of target.
From the Strategic Bombing Survey, ETO:
Conventionally the air forces designated as "the target area" a circle having a radius of 1000 feet around the aiming point of attack. While accuracy improved during the war, Survey studies show that, in the over-all, only about 20% of the bombs aimed at precision targets fell within this target area. A peak accuracy of 70% was reached for the month of February 1945.
My regards,
Widewing
-
Originally posted by JB35
IIRC only 1 or 2 made it back ?
It was a few more, but that was exactly my point ;)
-
Originally posted by Widewing
Trim doesn't maintain controlled flight. It reduces stick and rudder forces, thus reducing pilot workload and fatigue. Pilots maintain controlled flight.
Bf 109s didn't have rudder trim tabs adjusted by the pilot. They were preset on the ground to suit the pilot's preference. If he flew at a speed where the trim changed, he simply applied constant rudder displacement to keep the ball centered. It could be tiring.
My regards,
Widewing
Quite true. Now imagine that in order to keep the ball centered and get a good shot, you were always having to twist the sticks rudder or press on a pedal to achieve this. Think it might get a bit tiring even from the comfort of our virtual cockpits?
Try this (pick your favorite fighter), join a furball or work on strafing ground targets. Before engaging, control-x and turn off your combat trim. Fly like you normally would. I would hazard that you will have an AAI event rather quickly! AAI? Run out of Altitude, Airspeed, and Ideas at the same time :)
-
Originally posted by 2Slow
Quite true. Now imagine that in order to keep the ball centered and get a good shot, you were always having to twist the sticks rudder or press on a pedal to achieve this. Think it might get a bit tiring even from the comfort of our virtual cockpits?
Try this (pick your favorite fighter), join a furball or work on strafing ground targets. Before engaging, control-x and turn off your combat trim. Fly like you normally would. I would hazard that you will have an AAI event rather quickly! AAI? Run out of Altitude, Airspeed, and Ideas at the same time :)
I fight without combat trim most of the time... No problems whatsoever. I adjust trim as required via my trim buttons on my stick. Simple and easy.
My regards,
Widewing
-
2slow, imagine me shooting out one engine on your multi engined bomber.
With no auto trim think about having to jump back and forth trimming on final bombing run.
Opps slowed down, got to retrim.
Bronk
-
Originally posted by Bronk
2slow, imagine me shooting out one engine on your multi engined bomber.
With no auto trim think about having to jump back and forth trimming on final bombing run.
Opps slowed down, got to retrim.
Bronk
Thats why you get your speed to even out before sighting the target. Even missing an engine I make sure that my speed is stable for 25 miles before linning on the target. Hell, lol. At the power setting I fly, I can just throttle up and the speed wont ever change!
-
You missed the point. Without auto trim that's one more thing you'd have to adjust.
Bronk
-
Originally posted by Bronk
You missed the point. Without auto trim that's one more thing you'd have to adjust.
Bronk
But its not that difficult to adjust. Takes a second or two at most. I fly without autotrim most of the time in bombers just for the hell of it. I mean, with our E6B we can tell INSTANTLY exactly how much we're climbing or descending, and that little slip-skid indicator is a pilot's best friend...
-
Originally posted by Serenity
But its not that difficult to adjust. Takes a second or two at most. I fly without autotrim most of the time in bombers just for the hell of it. I mean, with our E6B we can tell INSTANTLY exactly how much we're climbing or descending, and that little slip-skid indicator is a pilot's best friend...
The point being discussed was realism. Bombing too accurate, gunnery too good, fighters too good. Whine...whine...whine...
So my point was, want realism? Get rid of auto combat trim (make flying realistic, not game console easy) and all the other flight management stuff that is built in to the system to simulate pilot skill/management ability on all aircraft and other crew members working on the Bomber.
Heck, I have even heard whining about buff external views. The external buff view simulates all the input one would have from your crew looking out their various windows and reports from crews in the other drones.
Heck, I think the E6b should be displayed digitaly in the bomb sight. Having touched and played with the Norden bomb site in the Collings Foundation B17 9O9 I am glad AH has not taken the Falcon 4.0 technique of having one have to manipulate actual controls and knobs.
If one does not want a buff killing a base from 10 to 20k, then up a fighter, climb out and patrol. Not as much fun and the turn and burn.
Nuff said, no longer monitoring thread and here is your cheese.