Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: x0847Marine on April 14, 2007, 03:56:46 AM
-
http://www.galluppoll.com/content/?ci=27187
During the first quarter of 2007
38% of Americans identified as independents
33% as Democrats
28% as Republicans
A record number of people can see the two parties for the transparent perpetual EPIC failures they are. I dig it.. I so hope some independent rich angry noob shows up in 08 and goes #2 in both parties cheerios.
-
Yea!
-
problem is. not all those independants belong to a single independant party.
Like I said in another thread sometime back.
The time is ripe for an independant to get in if one of the other parties would just get their act together and make a BIG push at it.
They could even do so partway into the campaign drive.
All they need is a fresh message and a likeable candidate
-
Saying you're 'Independant' is alot different than voting 'Independant'.
If that poll was worth anything, Congress would look much different than is is.
-
Originally posted by Blooz
Saying you're 'Independant' is alot different than voting 'Independant'.
If that poll was worth anything, Congress would look much different than is is.
Election boards are full of R & D hacks, the DNC / RNC are orginized and have all the $$...
Plus Repubs & Dems fight to keep 3rd parties off the ballots, letting people choose alternatives isn't in their best interest.
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2006/sep2006/illi-s20.shtml
"The ruling was a blow to the Illinois Democratic Party machine, which has mounted a three-month campaign, involving high-level attorneys, to exclude the SEP from the ballot"..
"Having failed to remove Parnarauskis from the ballot, the Democrats sought to achieve the same aim by blocking his certification until local election authorities printed their ballots. Knowing that Parnarauskis’s name would not be included if he had not been certified by the board, the Democrats continued to deadlock the vote"
"“In perhaps one of the greatest understatements in its history,” Spiegel wrote, “the US Supreme Court recently observed that the State may not ‘be a wholly independent arbiter,’ in ballot access matters as it is controlled by the political parties in power, ‘which presumably have an incentive to shape the rules of the electoral game to their own benefit.’"
Now thats the Ameican way huh?, use lawyers & deadlocks to keep the people from having more choices.
-
BTW the repubs are just as guilty of limiting choice.. how can anyone support parties that do this?.. this is as un-American as it gets.
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2006/sep2006/illi-s20.shtml
"Republican election board members, using a top Democratic law firm, removed the candidates (Libertarian Party) from the ballot, even though they had previously ruled that the party had collected well above the 25,000 minimum signature requirement. This involved imposing sanctions on petition circulators who the board deemed had collected invalid signatures, and in this way throwing out an additional 4,000 valid signatures, in order to remove their candidates from the ballot."
-
I guess I live in a different part of the country.
Last November when I went to vote there was about a dozen parties on the ballot.
Everybody from the Communists, Nazis, Green Party, Libertarians, Right to Life and all the rest.
I voted for who I wanted to win not for who I thought was going to win.
It's not about keeping other parties off the ballot. It's about people not voting the way they think and rolling over.
If that Gallup Poll you posted was true and people actually voted that way, Congess would be at least a third Independant.
-
not really.. there about 50 different whack job independent parties out there. none of em can muster more than about 5% of the vote on any one election.
The republicans would love to see the left leaning ones on the ballot to siphon off lefty votes from the democrats love to see right leaning and libertarian ones on the ballot to siphon off republican votes.
lazs
-
Originally posted by Blooz
It's about people not voting the way they think and rolling over.
Actually, it's about political inevitability:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duverger's_Law
-Sik
-
I don't agree.
In the US we have more political parties now than ever before.
If any of them can come up with some good ideas and actually stand by those ideas, people will follow and continue to vote for them.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_parties_in_the_United_States
-
Originally posted by Blooz
If that poll was worth anything, Congress would look much different than is is.
If elections didn't come down to how much you could spend by selling your soul and vote to special interest groups, Congress would look much different than it is.
-
Your money is your voice.
Special interest groups exist because people with like minded ideas band together to multiply their political power.
Nobody is stopping you from contributing to your special interest of choice.
My personal favorites are the American Legion, National Rifle Association and Disabled American Veterans.
-
Originally posted by Blooz
I don't agree.
In the US we have more political parties now than ever before.
If any of them can come up with some good ideas and actually stand by those ideas, people will follow and continue to vote for them.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_parties_in_the_United_States
In the above case it was verified the Libertarian collected more than enough signatures to be on the ballot... that's a sign of the peoples support.
The Republican election board members could give a poop about what the people want and removed him from the ballot anyway... which was later ruled illegal and unconstitutional.
This isnt a case of 'pie in the sky' fairness where "if you build it, they will come"... if you build it, the RNC & DNC will show up with their lawyers and burn it down... but the media is too busy talking about who boned a dead model and a shock who told a joke to care about trivial voting matters.
-
Quoted "The Republican election board members could give a poop about what the people want and removed him from the ballot anyway... which was later ruled illegal and unconstitutional."
OK..so justice was done.
Did this Libertarian candidate get back on the ballot?
Were his ideas great enough to get elected?
Did the people that ponied up the signatures vote for and support this person?
My guess is no.
-
Originally posted by Blooz
I don't agree.
In the US we have more political parties now than ever before.
If any of them can come up with some good ideas and actually stand by those ideas, people will follow and continue to vote for them.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_parties_in_the_United_States
You don't have to agree. There will always be nitch parties out there, but the power will always devolve to the big "two" centrist parties. In order to change one of those parties you need a political cataclism to wipe one of them out. The last time we has a shift was during the buildup to the civil war.
Which is too bad, since I still vote a straight Whig ticket.
-Sik
-
I read somewhere recently, maybe in a post on this board, that most people who identify themselves as independents actually typically vote for one of the two parties in a regular fashion. They may be more likely to vote against the party in extraordinary circumstances, but by and large they don't.
Charon
-
Originally posted by Blooz
Quoted "The Republican election board members could give a poop about what the people want and removed him from the ballot anyway... which was later ruled illegal and unconstitutional."
OK..so justice was done.
Did this Libertarian candidate get back on the ballot?
Were his ideas great enough to get elected?
Did the people that ponied up the signatures vote for and support this person?
My guess is no.
Why "guess" when you can read and find out for yourself? can you say justice was served when ballots were being printed without his name, while the Dems took him to court?
Nobody ever said the dude would win, was the best, or that he had lots of great ideas or support.. the point is the un-american, illegal & unconstitutional actions by repub & dem election board members.
That's how the R/DNC operate, after acting in illegal unconstitutional ways to deny people choice and save their puny political hack jobs, they lie about it and bleed people of funds by making sure they have lots of legal fees ... even Ray Charles can see that.
The end result of doing everything possible to exclude 3rd parties?, a congress full of incompetent party slaves who "do nothing" but bicker with each other.
Is asking the R/DNC to obey the law and act within the constitution too much to ask? they created an ILLEGAL standard
"US Court of Appeals for the Seventh Circuit ruled that the Illinois ballot restrictions on independent candidates were unconstitutional.
The court ruled, “In combination, the ballot access requirements for independent legislative candidates in Illinois ... operate to unconstitutionally burden the freedom of political association guaranteed by the First and Fourteenth Amendments.”
-
All I'm asking is was justice served to those election board members who did illegal and unconstitutional things?
You keep making allegations that the things they did are routine. I'm sure they aren't and they were most likely punished for what they did.
As a result, I'm sure the Libertarian candidate at least got on the ballot in the next election and won big, yes?
They're not excluding third parties. As my posted link shows there are many parties to choose from. Pick the one you like and help them out!
-
Originally posted by Blooz
Saying you're 'Independant' is alot different than voting 'Independant'.
If that poll was worth anything, Congress would look much different than is is.
Blooz brings up a great point, clearly defined by Lazs's own policies.
-
I don't say I am an independent. On the contrary.. I am a registered republican so that I can have a meaningful vote in the primaries.
Grow up lazer.