Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Wobblin-Goblin on April 14, 2007, 06:35:35 PM
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Fw190A8?
I really like having guns that'll pound enemy aircraft, the manueverability stinks, though.
Which fighters do you like best (for armament)?
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Can't go wrong with eight .50 cal guns.
3400 rounds of pure love.
P47
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P-38 , 4 .50 cal and 1 20mm cannon all in the nose....
That there is a winning combo.
Bronk
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Yak-T, or the potato shooter on the 109. For sheer joy of slaughter hard to go wrong with the Typhie or Tempest though.
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CHog, Hurri 2C, Temp, Typhoon
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You guys all trying to overcompensate for something or other?
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Ki-61 and Ki-84's HO-5 cannons. Excellent against fighters.
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N1K2-J (Niki).
Many argue against the poor ballistics of the 20mm cannons, but that doesn't matter if you get close. Besides, it carries a boatload of ammunition!
But, as you can see, different opinions abound. The best thing to do is find your fighting style first, then pick a plane / armament that compliments it.
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me-110G, i use the 30mm for HO and 4x 20mm for firing when turning because 30mm have a bit of recoils.
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Mosquito Mk VI.
Four nose mounted Hispano Mk II cannons.
Nothing better in the game for killing fighters in terms of armament.
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Bf-109G-14.
That spinner-gun makes aiming easy, plus you have the option of 20mm for a large dogfight, or a 30mm for hunting.
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Chog, Temp 110, niki, 109A8, hurri2c, typh, 152, 109G14, Me 262, P47s, P38s
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BF110-G2 with four 20mm's and twin 30mm's if you can bring them to bear.
You didn't ask which was the most lethal that you could actually get into position for a guns solution.
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SPIT 1:O
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Theoretically, the 152... nose-mounted 20mms + hub 30mm..
Unfortunately, in AH world, where Hizookas are king, nothing beats the Mossie, not even the 110.
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I absolutely love hitting snapshots in a 110, can get some outlandish kills in that thing, the view is great too.
Same deal goes for the Mossie.
My beloved N1K is awesome too once you get used to the ballistics.
I am such a cannon dweeb.
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The mossie's gattling cannon is perfect for...
Originally posted by tedrbr
You guys all trying to overcompensate for something or other?
The sheer volume of dweebs the MA is teeming with.
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Originally posted by titanic3
me-110G, i use the 30mm for HO and 4x 20mm for firing when turning because 30mm have a bit of recoils.
Originally posted by BaldEagl
10-G2 with four 20mm's and twin 30mm's if you can bring them to bear.
You didn't ask which was the most lethal that you could actually get into position for a guns solution.
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Originally posted by Kweassa
unately, in AH world, where Hizookas are king, nothing beats the Mossie, not even the 110.
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Anyone who flys the 110G-2 will tell you never to take the 4x20mm Mg151s unless you want to die. I always take 50% fuel plus DT and 2x MG151/20 and 2x Mk 108 / 750 20mms and 255 30mm. once you get the hang of it and learn not to put it in a flat spin you will beable to turn that thing on a dime. Use flaps and trim as much as possible. Don't fly with stall limiter on and you can out turn mossis, P51s and some P38s also if I don't screw up I can outurn SpitXVIs,SpitXIVs, and SpitIXs. It will take a while to get the hang of it but when you do its the perfect fighter/buff hunter.
Edit: Main reason I fly LW is the cannons. I hate 50cals sure they can hit out to 1000ft but snapshots are useless. 2x Mg151/20s or 1x Mk 108 will take mose fighters wing off. Plus killing bombers is ALOT easier with 20 and 30mms
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Originally posted by Kweassa
Theoretically, the 152... nose-mounted 20mms + hub 30mm..
Unfortunately, in AH world, where Hizookas are king, nothing beats the Mossie, not even the 110.
What's a "Mossie?"
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De Havilland "Mosquito" fighter-bomber.
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110G2 followed by A8 and Jugs in third place.
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Nothing beats shooting down a 262 in a 190a8. By far my plane of choice. If flying it has taught me one thing is only engage when I have afford the fight. It turns like a stalling C47 and barely outruns a spitfire, but BnZ is where its at.
Plus if the situation lands you right, you can probably shoot down 20+ aircraft with stock ammunition. I can't how many times I've used less than 150 rounds and I'm sitting on 5 kills.
Other favs: 190g-2, 110g2, p38
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Originally posted by Wobblin-Goblin
Fw190A8?
I really like having guns that'll pound enemy aircraft, the manueverability stinks, though.
Which fighters do you like best (for armament)?
Hi,
The A8 i one of my favorites and keep a great armament, how you can say its not manouverable??
Its manouverable like hell, it only miss climb ratio and sustain turn, but once you know how to manage energy, speed and the insane rollratio, they at least will have bad trouble to get you down. If you have a wingi, also in an 190A8, both with 2 x 30mm(even 4 x 20mm are great), you be the king.
You easyly can evade Temps, Spits and La´s, by rolling, this give your wingi time to make a snapshot kill.
Greetings,
Knegel
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Psssh roll rate it only works if people don't aim for the cockpit.:aok
Plus when people do the little super snap roll o overshoot. Problem with doing is this. 1 when you do it you bleed off energy and control plus all I have to do is aim at the axis point of which you are spinning and pour fire from th best plane in the game P40B.;) 2. If I do oveshoot I only have to go up and your mine second time around.:cool:
P40B's uber guns that just cut through planes like butter. Enough ammo for about 9 kills. Faster than that running LA7, can turn better than a zeke, and can climb better than a spitxteen off the runway while you go by at 500mph and die. In addition, to being able to outdive jugs. Oh did I mention the fligth time lasts longer than a lancaster going to the moon?
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Originally posted by Karnak
Mosquito Mk VI.
Four nose mounted Hispano Mk II cannons.
Nothing better in the game for killing fighters in terms of armament.
I thought it was .303" peashooters in the nose? ;) ;)
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109K4...or G14 with 30mm loadout.
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Originally posted by MiloMorai
I thought it was .303" peashooters in the nose? ;) ;)
Yeah, has them too.
wrngway
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Originally posted by tedrbr
You guys all trying to overcompensate for something or other?
Yes, inability to shoot and therefore an inability to kill things with mgs.
Four Hizookas, just have to get it right for a fraction of a second.
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Try as well the CHog and the Tempest ;)
4xHizooka and lots of ammo
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Originally posted by Kweassa
Theoretically, the 152... nose-mounted 20mms + hub 30mm..
Kweassa, the MG151/20s are wing root mounted, not in the engine cowling. Not that it matters that much in terms of convergence, but I'm a picky guy! ;) :D
Wobbling goblin, as E25280 said, the best thing you can do is finding your style and trying to understand what type of armament fits it better.
Personally, just as Larry, I don't like too much the MGs, because I'm a bad shot and most of the times all I have is a quick shot, so I have to hit hard. I like a good mixed pack with cannons and MGs, like in my beloved Ki84 (or in the 190D and C.205, lots of ammo there, too!), but don't disdain 4 good hizookas, if you have the chance! :D
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I'm amazed the P-47 hasn't been mentioned a dozen times yet! :eek:
It's 8 x .50 mg's are just sheer terror!
Undoubtly one of the heaviest armement for a real fighter (not one of those twin-engined pansies :D )
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Originally posted by Blooz
Can't go wrong with eight .50 cal guns.
3400 rounds of pure love.
P47
my favorite :aok
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Originally posted by frank3
I'm amazed the P-47 hasn't been mentioned a dozen times yet! :eek:
It's 8 x .50 mg's are just sheer terror!
Undoubtly one of the heaviest armement for a real fighter (not one of those twin-engined pansies :D )
By the US Navy's reckoning, the Spitfire Mk XIV and Mk XVI have the same firepower as the P-47. One Hispano Mk II was judged to be equal to three Browning .50 caliber machine guns. Those two Spitfires have two such cannon and two such machine guns. Obviously that means that the Typhoon, Tempest and F4U-1C have more firepower and the P-38 just slightly less.
Heck, the N1K2-J and Fw190A-8 have more firepower and they don't rely on Hispanos at all.
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Originally posted by Wobblin-Goblin
I really like having guns that'll pound enemy aircraft
"It's not the size mate, it's how ya use it."
8 .303 are just as deadly as 2 30mm when it comes to airplanes. Strafing is a different story.
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Originally posted by SAS_KID
Psssh roll rate it only works if people don't aim for the cockpit.:aok
Plus when people do the little super snap roll o overshoot. Problem with doing is this. 1 when you do it you bleed off energy and control plus all I have to do is aim at the axis point of which you are spinning and pour fire from th best plane in the game P40B.;) 2. If I do oveshoot I only have to go up and your mine second time around.:cool:
P40B's uber guns that just cut through planes like butter. Enough ammo for about 9 kills. Faster than that running LA7, can turn better than a zeke, and can climb better than a spitxteen off the runway while you go by at 500mph and die. In addition, to being able to outdive jugs. Oh did I mention the fligth time lasts longer than a lancaster going to the moon?
Roll rate is great in a combination with smal turns. A simple roll dont help anyone, of course. And you dont need to bleed off energy to let someone overshoot, you only need to roll much faster to start the turn more early. To follow you, the enemy have to turn much harder(cause he start later) and while he follow you you roll 180° and turn to the oposide direction(now he need even longer to follow ur turn). After two of this troll/turns, the oponent overshoot or did bleed so much energy(due to the harder turn), that you can shoot him down or you have enough speed advantage to gain distance.
Only vs F4U´s and Sp16´s the 190A8 have problems, cause they roll also rather good and they dont seems to bleed energy while turning.
Btw, the 2 x 20mm of the 109´s also have a good punch and its a good mix between center and wing mounted guns.
Greetings,
Knegel
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Being a novice HTC pilot, I've found myself looking for something, anything, that will help put me on a level playing field with the more experienced fliers. After reading a couple threads, this one included, I tried the Ki-84. That's not a half-bad fighter and one that gave me confidence when approaching any fight. The armament isn't quite up to what I'm used to, but flying it is a dream. It turns pretty darn easily and efficiently and its speed is respectable.
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Hispano V's on the Tempest, best guns in the game.
Higher rate of fire than the Hispano I and II fitted to Spits and Tiffys, and more rounds per gun.
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3 .303cal are about as powerful as 1 50cal. They also lose power at much closer ranges.
1 hurricane Mk.I with 8x 30cal is only about as powerful as the C202 with 2x50cals in the nose.
20mm guns are about 3x as powerful as 50cal. 30mm are probably 2x or 3x as powerful as 20mm (1 hit anywhere is a kill).
So saying 8x .303 in the hurricane is as effective as 2x30mm is a big mis-statement.
To equal 1 30mm gun, you'd need 18 to 28 .303 guns, depending on whether the 30mm is 2x or 3x as powerful as the average 20mm and they wouldn't have half the effective range of the 30mm either.
Karnak: The navy may have thought that, but I never got 8x bomber kills in a row (with ammo left to spare) in a spitfire! I have in a P-47D, though :)
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Originally posted by Wobblin-Goblin
I tried the Ki-84. That's not a half-bad fighter and one that gave me confidence when approaching any fight. The armament isn't quite up to what I'm used to, but flying it is a dream. It turns pretty darn easily and efficiently and its speed is respectable.
Good choice. That plane is simply wonderful. When you'll learn to fly it, you'll hardly fly anything else for fighter missions! ;)
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Originally posted by Krusty
3 .303cal are about as powerful as 1 50cal. They also lose power at much closer ranges.
1 hurricane Mk.I with 8x 30cal is only about as powerful as the C202 with 2x50cals in the nose.
20mm guns are about 3x as powerful as 50cal. 30mm are probably 2x or 3x as powerful as 20mm (1 hit anywhere is a kill).
So saying 8x .303 in the hurricane is as effective as 2x30mm is a big mis-statement.
To equal 1 30mm gun, you'd need 18 to 28 .303 guns, depending on whether the 30mm is 2x or 3x as powerful as the average 20mm and they wouldn't have half the effective range of the 30mm either.
Karnak: The navy may have thought that, but I never got 8x bomber kills in a row (with ammo left to spare) in a spitfire! I have in a P-47D, though :)
I got 4 kills in one HurryI sortie this morning, using only half of the ammo :D
As for the P47 and Spit comparison, it's tough on the firepower, but doesn't the P47 have a longer firing time. It does however IMHO counter the destruction power of the Tempest...
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I got 6 kills and several assists in a hurr1 once, got vulched landing, though (by puffy fleet ack, no less, some lamebrain was purposefully vulching using it). You can still get kills, but I've also landed 8 kills in a 109k-4 a few times, and several of those were b17s and b26s, which the hurricane1 could never have done.
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I've landed 8 kill sorties in the Mosquito on more than one occasion. I don't really feel the P-47 has anything over it guns wise.
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Probably true, but the performance of the p47 means it's more likely to get in get kills and get out, whereas anybody sneezes at the mossie and you get a pilot wound or a fireball (or both!)
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Originally posted by Krusty
Probably true, but the performance of the p47 means it's more likely to get in get kills and get out, whereas anybody sneezes at the mossie and you get a pilot wound or a fireball (or both!)
Which is upsetting as it was regarded with affection for being a tough aircraft that would get you home, like the P-47.
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Kev your a fountain of knowledge
wasn't the tempest able to carry a total of 200 rounds per gun making it a total of 800 rounds?
I know in another game they changed the total from 600 to 800 to meet the historical accuracy. It made one Tempest pilot very happy :t
Bruv
~S~
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262 - 4 nose mounted 30mm.
Fire 2 at a time and you have more ammo than you'll need.
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Originally posted by bozon
262 - 4 nose mounted 30mm.
Fire 2 at a time and you have more ammo than you'll need.
Way too hard to hit with from a Me262 though. That is their downfall.
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Originally posted by Karnak
Which is upsetting as it was regarded with affection for being a tough aircraft that would get you home, like the P-47.
I've read that many times about the moss, however in this game it is a roman candle pilot wounding sponge
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For those of you who don't know it, this analysis: http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/WW2guneffect.htm
gives you a detailed breakdown of the effectiveness of the guns, and of the armament of selected WW2 fighters.
The hardest-hitting fighter armament of WW2 belonged to the Me 262 (4x30mm). For other fighters to equal the destructive firepower it could deliver in one second, they would have to fire continuously for:
Fw 190A-8/R8 (2x13mm, 2x20mm, 2x30mm) = 1.4 seconds
Fw 190A-8 (2x13mm, 4x20mm) = 2.8 secs
Tempest (4x20mm) = 2.3 secs
Spitfire Mk XIV (2x20mm, 2x.50) = 4.5 secs
Ki-84 (4x20mm) = 4.8 secs
P-51D (6x.50) = 6.5 secs
P-47 (8x.50) = 4.8 secs
P-38 (1x20mm, 4x.50) = 5.3 secs
Yak-9T (1x37mm, 1x12.7mm) = 4.7 secs
This is just a selelction, there are lots more examples given.
You will also find other articles comparing WW2 aircraft weaponry on my site.
Tony Williams
Homepage: http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk
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Are you talking about just pure A2A attack? Or a mix of ground attack as well?
I'll assume the question asks "pure loadout, overall."
In this case, the answer is the P-47D series. (I prefer the P-47D-25 myself.)
Eight .50 calibur MGs with 3400 rounds, plus you can slap on two 1,000 lb bombs, a 500 lb bomb on the center pylon, and (someone correct me if I'm wrong here) 10 HVAR rockets on the wing pylons. (this would be the loadout for the P-47D-40. The D-25 cannot load HVARs but the smaller yielding versions)
Each HVAR class rocket yields ABOUT 230 lbs of ordinance, which if you total it all up, the P-47D can carry a maximum of roughly 4,800 lbs.
This is more then enough to destroy any GV on the ground, or any hanger that stands on the field.
It's a little more than half what is needed to sink a CV, which means potentially two fully loaded P-47D's could drop a CV battle group (assuming it takes 8,000 lbs to sink a CV).
Dunno 'bout you fellas but this plane says "pure pwnage" to me. :aok
P.S.
Btw, I'd rather fly a P-47D-25 light into A2A combat then any of the Fockewulf series.
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Originally posted by Wobblin-Goblin
Fw190A8?
I really like having guns that'll pound enemy aircraft, the manueverability stinks, though.
Which fighters do you like best (for armament)?
N1K2J
Potato Gunz
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Originally posted by halcyon
In this case, the answer is the P-47D series. (I prefer the P-47D-25 myself.)
Eight .50 calibur MGs with 3400 rounds,
There was once on the web an interesting account of a real-life test which took place during the Korean War, between the USAF and the USN, to determine whose planes were better at ground strafing. They set up an old truck on a range, and first the USAF plane strafed it with its .50 cals. After the pass there was no visible difference so they went to check and found that it had quite a few holes in it and the seats were smouldering, and that was it. Then the navy plane came in with its 20mm, and the truck disintegrated - it was scrap metal.
Each HVAR class rocket yields ABOUT 230 lbs of ordinance, which if you total it all up, the P-47D can carry a maximum of roughly 4,800 lbs.
This is more then enough to destroy any GV on the ground,
Provided you can hit it....
The Typhoon when firing RPs in combat (as opposed to in training) had an average miss distance of 60 yards (later improved to about 45 yards). On average, they needed to fire 200 RPs to hit a tank. When dropping bombs, they had an average miss distance of 120 yards. There's no reason to suppose that the P-47 would have done any better.
Tony Williams
Homepage: http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk
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Originally posted by Tony Williams
There was once on the web an interesting account of a real-life test which took place during the Korean War, between the USAF and the USN, to determine whose planes were better at ground strafing. They set up an old truck on a range, and first the USAF plane strafed it with its .50 cals. After the pass there was no visible difference so they went to check and found that it had quite a few holes in it and the seats were smouldering, and that was it. Then the navy plane came in with its 20mm, and the truck disintegrated - it was scrap metal.
Unfortunately the only navy plane in the game with 20mm cannons is the F4U-1C, and from what I hear this plane is getting scrapped from the game.
What they need is that F6F version with the 20 mils. :)
Provided you can hit it....
The Typhoon when firing RPs in combat (as opposed to in training) had an average miss distance of 60 yards (later improved to about 45 yards). On average, they needed to fire 200 RPs to hit a tank. When dropping bombs, they had an average miss distance of 120 yards. There's no reason to suppose that the P-47 would have done any better.
It's pretty easy to dive bomb any GV on the ground. Even if you don't land a 1,000 lb bomb straight on it's hatch, the proximity explosion is usually enough to get the softer targets.
Hope you don't plan on strafing tanks with .50 cals hehe.
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Originally posted by MiloMorai
I thought it was .303" peashooters in the nose? ;) ;)
:rofl :rofl :rofl
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It's pretty easy to dive bomb any GV on the ground. Even if you don't land a 1,000 lb bomb straight on it's hatch, the proximity explosion is usually enough to get the softer targets.
Hope you don't plan on strafing tanks with .50 cals hehe.
Ofcourse, since we who fly AH, casually disregard potential dangers and neglect safety measures, it is farely easy to hit any ground target no matter what the risk. However, things seem to have been very different for real life pilots who were afraid of crashing to the ground. When that happened, they died on the spot, and didn't get to reup.
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Originally posted by Kweassa
Ofcourse, since we who fly AH, casually disregard potential dangers and neglect safety measures, it is farely easy to hit any ground target no matter what the risk. However, things seem to have been very different for real life pilots who were afraid of crashing to the ground. When that happened, they died on the spot, and didn't get to reup.
I'm not sure I'm really following your point.
You're saying that we should be comparing real life crashes to in-game crashes?
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I'm not sure I'm really following your point.
You're saying that we should be comparing real life crashes to in-game crashes?
I'm saying the figures Mr. Williams quoted shows what ground attack was like in reality. On average only one out of 200 rockets fired would ever connect at te target, and the accuracy of low-angle, low-altitude bombing was also horrendously low.
This is why tankbusters were armed with powerful guns, and the preferred method of tank busting was by far strafing it with guns that can penetrate tank armour. Compared to these specialized planes, ordinary fighter/bomber aircraft were largely inefficient and ineffecitive in the tank busting role.
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Originally posted by Flint
Yak-T, or the potato shooter on the 109. For sheer joy of slaughter hard to go wrong with the Typhie or Tempest though.
:) There is no better feeling than 1 shot 1 kill
i have even snap shot a spitty with that big mutha
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Ta-152, nothing comes even close.