Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Eagler on April 19, 2007, 05:45:38 AM

Title: Wtg Sc!!
Post by: Eagler on April 19, 2007, 05:45:38 AM
I consider this part of the Bush "legacy" as he appointed the judges which made this possible
Supreme Court OKs Abortion Procedure Ban (http://apnews.myway.com/article/20070418/D8OJ7CL00.html)

Though only a small percent of the over 1.3 million abortions a year our "ladies" commit in the US, it is one of the most gruesome ways we had come up with to murder our babies. Glad to see it banned .. again.
Title: Wtg Sc!!
Post by: DiabloTX on April 19, 2007, 05:48:28 AM
Agreed.

WOOT, 6000th post!!!
Title: Wtg Sc!!
Post by: Eagler on April 19, 2007, 09:33:36 AM
bump for historical significance ...

to bad the repubs don't have an ad showing graphic photos of a partial birth abortion imposed behind all the dumbacrats who are now screaming about some lost woman rights because of this decision. It would be a powerful and enlightening ad.
Title: Wtg Sc!!
Post by: Bodhi on April 19, 2007, 09:43:07 AM
correct me if I am wrong, but partial birth abortions happen at the time of birth.  IE. the head pops out and they kill it, right?

If so, I do not support that at all.  However I do support a woman's right to choose and I do think there is a huge difference between a bunch of cells and a full term fetus.
Title: Wtg Sc!!
Post by: Sting138 on April 19, 2007, 09:49:55 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Bodhi
correct me if I am wrong, but partial birth abortions happen at the time of birth.  IE. the head pops out and they kill it, right?

If so, I do not support that at all.  However I do support a woman's right to choose and I do think there is a huge difference between a bunch of cells and a full term fetus.



The Partial-Birth Aboriton procedure is used after 20 weeks (4.5 months) of pregnancy – often to six months, seven months or even later.

Murder is Murder! No and's or if's about it!


You "INTENTIONALLY" kill someone you - deserve to be killed, baby or adult it doesnt matter.
Title: Wtg Sc!!
Post by: storch on April 19, 2007, 11:02:54 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Bodhi
correct me if I am wrong, but partial birth abortions happen at the time of birth.  IE. the head pops out and they kill it, right?

If so, I do not support that at all.  However I do support a woman's right to choose and I do think there is a huge difference between a bunch of cells and a full term fetus.
bodhi in a partial birth abortion the child must be breached because if the child's head exits the birth canal it is considerd to be born.  in this horrific proceedure the child is inverted while in the uterus so that his body is out but for his head.  a needle is inserted through the base of the skull and the child's brain is sucked out.  at that time a dead "fetus" is removed.
Title: Wtg Sc!!
Post by: Flatbar on April 19, 2007, 11:05:34 AM
Am I correct in the assumption that there is no provision for using this procedure when it would save the life of the mother?

If there is, could someone quote the decision where it states that it does?


Not poking eyes here, I realy don't know if this is true.
Title: Wtg Sc!!
Post by: Yeager on April 19, 2007, 11:17:42 AM
I remember the politicians crowding on the floor of the house urging their  members to pass the assault weapons ban with this cry:

"Do it for the Children"

Ultimately the woman who is pregnant calls the shots.  I just wish the politicians would be honest about it.
Title: Wtg Sc!!
Post by: Gunthr on April 19, 2007, 12:04:20 PM
i am reluctant to insert myself into other people's lives, so  this topic is hard for me.

 i made a woman pregnant.  i didn't love her.  when faced with the decision of abortion, i knew instantly that i couldn't abide by that and we got married.  it lasted 2 years.  i don't believe not loving a spouse should make abortion ok, but that's me.  my daughter from that is so much a part of me.

it wasn't based on religeon or advice from anyone.  i think that was the first important decision i ever made in my life.  it was based totally on my feeling that it is wrong to kill that life because i screwed up, and i didn't allow it, and my ex went along.

i mind my own business, so i have trouble with laws that tell people what to do.  But I can't approve abortions.  Partialbirth abortions? It is inconceivable.
Title: Wtg Sc!!
Post by: FrodeMk3 on April 19, 2007, 12:22:09 PM
I had a buddy of mine from High School go through a horrific experience with this.

He and his wife had been trying to have a child for a long time. Finally, they conceived one. She got along about 4 months, and went in for an ultrasound checkup.

Due to something( They never told me what, and I never asked) There was a problem in the womb. Seems that the Child was developing some of it's internal organs outside of the skin.Apperantly the major ones, such as the heart and lungs.

However, the fetus was still alive.

No doctor they saw said that if Birth was succesful(It would be a surgical Procedure even more invasive than a C-section), could they give even less than a 1% chance for survival. They decided to abort.

Now in this, It should be said, they kept trying, and did eventually have a normal, healthy child. But to this day, my buddy and the doctor agreed, to never let his wife see just how scary looking the ultrasound images were.

The doctor said it would have scared her out of trying to have another child. As it was, they had to go to counseling over the abortion part.
Title: Wtg Sc!!
Post by: Yeager on April 19, 2007, 01:13:50 PM
Gunthr you helped save a life.  A very special life.  Good on you bro!  You done good :)
Title: Wtg Sc!!
Post by: Eagler on April 19, 2007, 03:34:41 PM
none of the dems on this board going to stand shoulder to shoulder with the likes of
Hillary (http://www.hillaryclinton.com/news/release/view/?id=1451)
OOObama (http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post_group/ObamaHQ/CZsK)
Edwards (http://johnedwards.com/news/press-releases/200700418-federal-ban/)
and denounce the SC ruling?????
Title: Wtg Sc!!
Post by: midnight Target on April 19, 2007, 04:08:15 PM
Silly law and silly ruling.

You have taken a procedure that is used almost never .. except when the life of the mother is in danger.. and ruled that it can be used almost never... except when the life of the mother is in danger.

brilliant.
Title: Wtg Sc!!
Post by: lasersailor184 on April 19, 2007, 04:15:46 PM
Quote
Originally posted by midnight Target
Silly law and silly ruling.

You have taken a procedure that is used almost never .. except when the life of the mother is in danger.. and ruled that it can be used almost never... except when the life of the mother is in danger.

brilliant.


The journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
Title: Wtg Sc!!
Post by: DYNAMITE on April 19, 2007, 04:33:01 PM
Quote
Originally posted by midnight Target
Silly law and silly ruling.

You have taken a procedure that is used almost never .. except when the life of the mother is in danger.. and ruled that it can be used almost never... except when the life of the mother is in danger.

brilliant.


I'm with MT on this one... in reality, a PBA would only be performed if it was discovered late term that the fetus is not viable (meaning it will die either prior to birth or immediately after despite medical intervention) or if the mothers life is in jeopardy.  

IMHO... this ban is not a good thing.
Title: Wtg Sc!!
Post by: Flatbar on April 19, 2007, 04:49:48 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Eagler
none of the dems on this board going to stand shoulder to shoulder with the likes of
Hillary (http://www.hillaryclinton.com/news/release/view/?id=1451)
OOObama (http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post_group/ObamaHQ/CZsK)
Edwards (http://johnedwards.com/news/press-releases/200700418-federal-ban/)
and denounce the SC ruling?????


Answer my question and I'll answer yours...

Am I correct in the assumption that there is no provision for using this procedure when it would save the life of the mother?

If there is, could someone quote the decision where it states that it does?

If this procedure can't be used to save the life of the mother then it's obviously a bad decision.
Title: Wtg Sc!!
Post by: midnight Target on April 19, 2007, 05:40:07 PM
Quote
Originally posted by lasersailor184
The journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.


even a blind squirrel can find a nut now and then.
Title: Wtg Sc!!
Post by: storch on April 19, 2007, 05:41:43 PM
Quote
Originally posted by midnight Target
even a blind squirrel can find a nut now and then.
you may want to take a switch to that squirrel it may have rabies.
Title: Wtg Sc!!
Post by: midnight Target on April 19, 2007, 05:48:44 PM
Was laser foaming at the mouth?
Title: Wtg Sc!!
Post by: SFRT - Frenchy on April 19, 2007, 09:08:12 PM
I'm totaly for abortion, and I fail to understand the ones that strongly object to it in the name of "Murder". I'm sadden to live in a society that bans abortion.
Title: Wtg Sc!!
Post by: Gunslinger on April 19, 2007, 09:39:30 PM
Quote
Originally posted by midnight Target
Silly law and silly ruling.

brilliant.


Kind of like all the non-binding resolutions the opposite side of the house wants to pass.
Title: Wtg Sc!!
Post by: DYNAMITE on April 19, 2007, 09:45:36 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Gunslinger
Kind of like all the non-binding resolutions the opposite side of the house wants to pass.



(http://www.bloggerheads.com/images/sw_focus.jpg)


Lets try to stay on target... :aok
Title: Wtg Sc!!
Post by: lasersailor184 on April 19, 2007, 10:03:56 PM
Quote
Originally posted by midnight Target
Was laser foaming at the mouth?



Nope, I wasn't.  I was just pointing out what the real reason for this ruling was.  Exact same reason why the gun owners won't allow any encroachment, even so minor, against gun rights.


I've personally swayed back and forth on the issue.  Today my thought is that if the baby is going to be healthy (and so is the mother), then it should be illegal to kill it.  If it will have problems, then abortion becomes legal.

Of course then the problem starts with how do you define problems, nothing is perfectly black and white, yadda yadda yadda...
Title: Wtg Sc!!
Post by: DREDIOCK on April 19, 2007, 11:14:04 PM
Whil eI have made it well known here that I am pro choice.
I have no problem with this ruling

I see it as fair and just for both sides
Title: Wtg Sc!!
Post by: AWMac on April 19, 2007, 11:25:54 PM
Quote
Originally posted by midnight Target
even a blind squirrel can find a nut now and then.


Sad... I've seen Blind Squirrels...they have no nuts.

Mac
Title: Wtg Sc!!
Post by: AWMac on April 19, 2007, 11:26:58 PM
Quote
Originally posted by midnight Target
Was laser foaming at the mouth?


errr that wasn't "foam".....

Mac
Title: Wtg Sc!!
Post by: lasersailor184 on April 19, 2007, 11:38:33 PM
Quote
Originally posted by AWMac
errr that wasn't "foam".....

Mac



BOOOOOO.  :confused:
Title: Re: Wtg Sc!!
Post by: rpm on April 20, 2007, 12:58:38 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Eagler
Though only a small percent of the over 1.3 million abortions a year our "ladies" commit in the US, it is one of the most gruesome ways we had come up with to murder our babies.
Murder? You have a flair for the melodramatic. If a child is stillborn, is the mother arrested for murder? If a woman has a miscarrage should we throw her in jail? A dead fetus is a dead fetus.
Title: Wtg Sc!!
Post by: Eagler on April 20, 2007, 04:41:11 AM
Quote
Originally posted by SFRT - Frenchy
I'm totaly for abortion, and I fail to understand the ones that strongly object to it in the name of "Murder". I'm sadden to live in a society that bans abortion.


why? is it your perfered method of birth control? You do realize that is what it is used for the majority of the time.

you can always leave ..
Title: Wtg Sc!!
Post by: Rolex on April 20, 2007, 05:10:43 AM
The method in this ruling is used in less than 1% of all abortions, and it affects couples who want a child, but something has gone terribly wrong during the pregnancy. The fetus is dying, already brain dead or has abnormalities that make it unable to live outside the womb - if it even goes full term.

The "ladies" affected by this are grieving mothers who have nurseries and cribs waiting, but have to live with an unbearable situation. Yanking out the "killer" card to paint all of them as inhuman is an evil and indecent thing to do.
Title: Wtg Sc!!
Post by: Silat on April 20, 2007, 05:52:03 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Bodhi
correct me if I am wrong, but partial birth abortions happen at the time of birth.  IE. the head pops out and they kill it, right?

If so, I do not support that at all.  However I do support a woman's right to choose and I do think there is a huge difference between a bunch of cells and a full term fetus.


IT is call a D&XorC . The rightwing Christians named it partial birth to scare their sheep.
It is used rarely and mostly when the mothers life is in danger. This ruling made no consideration of the womens health and welfare.
This is a religious issue and has no place at the SC.
Title: Wtg Sc!!
Post by: storch on April 20, 2007, 06:22:54 AM
you are wrong.  it has it's place in the SC as it is the first step in the right direction since 1973.  the goal is to overturn roe v wade.  this is legal precedent and a very important one.  I hope to see roe v wade overturned in my lifetime.
Title: Wtg Sc!!
Post by: Silat on April 20, 2007, 06:38:11 AM
Quote
Originally posted by storch
you are wrong.  it has it's place in the SC as it is the first step in the right direction since 1973.  the goal is to overturn roe v wade.  this is legal precedent and a very important one.  I hope to see roe v wade overturned in my lifetime.


??? That is your retort? Where am I wrong?
It is religious.
It doesnt take the womens health into consideration.
And roe wont go away. But religious fanatics will.
Title: Wtg Sc!!
Post by: DREDIOCK on April 20, 2007, 08:38:53 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Eagler
why? is it your perfered method of birth control? You do realize that is what it is used for the majority of the time.

you can always leave ..


Un true.
the most common form of birth control in the US is sterilisation, The most popular non permanant form of Birth control is "the pill"
Title: Wtg Sc!!
Post by: DREDIOCK on April 20, 2007, 08:43:11 AM
Quote
Originally posted by storch
you are wrong.  it has it's place in the SC as it is the first step in the right direction since 1973.  the goal is to overturn roe v wade.  this is legal precedent and a very important one.  I hope to see roe v wade overturned in my lifetime.


Mark my words. In our lifetime Abortion will never be made completely illegal.
The best that will ever happen is it will become more regulated.
Title: Wtg Sc!!
Post by: SFRT - Frenchy on April 20, 2007, 10:30:42 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Eagler
why? is it your perfered method of birth control? You do realize that is what it is used for the majority of the time.

you can always leave ..


I don't consider murder when the thing is nothing much of a gathering of cells. You might as well go to jail when you remove your maule from your butt cheecks, it's a living cell too afterall. Abortion helps resolve mistakes, teach a good lesson, and help famillies to get back on track. To me, the real crime is to bring a child to this world that is not wanted, and will be loosely taken care off. And if no abortion is synonim with adoption, oh my god, I'm sure it feels very good to spend your life knowing your parents abandoned you, or not knowing the wherabouts of your own child.

And hell no I'm not going to leave, I'll exercise my freedom and fight the radical integrists that wave the religion or moral baneer. If you are that prone on controlling other people's life and alter women's rights, maybe you are the one that should leave, and move your to Al Quaeda controled country of choice.:confused:
Title: Wtg Sc!!
Post by: ravells on April 20, 2007, 10:40:16 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Rolex
The method in this ruling is used in less than 1% of all abortions, and it affects couples who want a child, but something has gone terribly wrong during the pregnancy. The fetus is dying, already brain dead or has abnormalities that make it unable to live outside the womb - if it even goes full term.

The "ladies" affected by this are grieving mothers who have nurseries and cribs waiting, but have to live with an unbearable situation. Yanking out the "killer" card to paint all of them as inhuman is an evil and indecent thing to do.


Very good point, Rolex.
Title: Wtg Sc!!
Post by: storch on April 20, 2007, 10:42:45 AM
sir you are so wrong on so many issues that it requires less efort for me to note the issues you are correct on.  I will dedicate the latter part of this post to show you where you do not go awry.
































that about covers it.  carry on
Title: Wtg Sc!!
Post by: Gunthr on April 20, 2007, 12:00:39 PM
Quote
Gunthr you helped save a life. A very special life. Good on you bro! You done good - Yeager
 

thanks Yeager... i really do appreciate your comment, and  i get a little choked up thinking about it even today.  i kind of resent those who paint people against abortion with with a broad brush - labeling people who are against abortion as rightwing religious nuts - i consider it an insult, and its certainly innaccurate in my case, and I'm sure many others.  I have never been religious.  I was in a jam, and I was very tempted to go with the abortion to be done with it.  The pregnant "girlfriend" said that if I didn't marry her, she would get an abortion.  I knew instinctively that it is wrong to kill a fetus.  I know in my heart I did the right thing.  it was hard to do, but i did it.

just because you have reverence for human life doesn't mean you are a nutjob.  That kind of desensitsation is a result of the San Fransico/California liberalism type of mindset.  I was acquainted (by introduction) with a woman, a teacher, who had had 17 abortions.  i'm not down on promiscuity per se for single people, but trifling with human life is just wrong.  Doesn't everyone know in their hearts that its wrong?  


__________________
Title: Wtg Sc!!
Post by: midnight Target on April 20, 2007, 12:56:27 PM
You're not a nutjob, but you did have a Choice.
Title: Wtg Sc!!
Post by: Eagler on April 20, 2007, 02:50:24 PM
Quote
Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Un true.
the most common form of birth control in the US is sterilisation, The most popular non permanant form of Birth control is "the pill"


didn't saw they weren't
I stated the majority of abortions are "oops did I spread my legs again last night?" after the fact birth control. That is a fact.
Title: Wtg Sc!!
Post by: ravells on April 20, 2007, 03:15:33 PM
I always thought it was

'I've got a headache'
Title: Wtg Sc!!
Post by: Red Tail 444 on April 20, 2007, 03:19:26 PM
Most of the guys arguing on this board against abortion are too ugly to get laid in the first place, so it's a moot point, really.
Title: Wtg Sc!!
Post by: Red Tail 444 on April 20, 2007, 03:20:36 PM
edited...

OTOH, Most of the guys arguing on this board against abortion are too ugly to get laid in the first place, so it's a moot point, really.
Title: Wtg Sc!!
Post by: myelo on April 20, 2007, 03:34:43 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Flatbar
Am I correct in the assumption that there is no provision for using this procedure when it would save the life of the mother?


No, there is an exception for the life of the mother, but not for her health.

If you read Kennedy's decision, it's very clear Roe will not be overturned by this court. But the decision was important for several reasons.

- Obviously intact D&E is now illegal (unless the woman's life is in danger).

- Medical uncertainty is now an appropriate premise for regulation. If the medical experts don't agree whether a procedure is safe or necessary, the legislature can regulate it.

- Abortion restrictions no longer have to include exceptions for the health of the mother.

- Abortions can be restricted  so long as alternatives exist. This is very important because it opens the door for a variety of restrictions like parental notification,  and outlawing a variety of specific methods, as long as you don't impose an undue burden (restrict all abortions).

In other words, the decision has set in place guidelines for the State to draft further abortion restrictions that will pass constitutional muster.
Title: Wtg Sc!!
Post by: Fury on April 20, 2007, 04:01:19 PM
Quote
Originally posted by SFRT - Frenchy
I'm totaly for abortion, and I fail to understand the ones that strongly object to it in the name of "Murder". I'm sadden to live in a society that bans abortion.


Generic Google murder search:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,249107,00.html

Scott Peterson and double-murder charges
http://www.dailyrecord.com/news/03/04/20/news3-laci.htm

36 US States have fetal homicide laws
http://www.ncsl.org/programs/health/fethom.htm

I've always wondered how a person can be charged with 'murdering' a fetus while the 'mother' can 'abort' it.

[edit: 36 states]
Title: Wtg Sc!!
Post by: midnight Target on April 20, 2007, 05:14:18 PM
I've always wondered why people wonder at that?
Title: Wtg Sc!!
Post by: lukster on April 20, 2007, 09:37:31 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Silat
??? That is your retort? Where am I wrong?
It is religious.
It doesnt take the womens health into consideration.
And roe wont go away. But religious fanatics will.


More about morality than religion. Certainly many who are religious hold it to be morally wrong to kill the innocent. A society that destroys it's most innocent at a count of over a million a year can be described at best as uncivilized.
Title: Wtg Sc!!
Post by: storch on April 20, 2007, 10:15:05 PM
not to mention stupid.  with over 10 million and counting aborted US citizens many of whom would now be productive and contributing with taxes as well as bolstering social security.  can we say racist?  the majority of aborted people were black and hispanic, communities where on demand abortion is used as a method of contraception.  abortion is the tool of the white communist elitists in the democratic party keeping the number of the colored competition managable.

margaret sanger is smiling in hell as we debate this great wrong.  her racist policy has worked infamously.
Title: Wtg Sc!!
Post by: rpm on April 20, 2007, 11:01:31 PM
Quote
Originally posted by storch
not to mention stupid.  with over 10 million and counting aborted US citizens many of whom would now be productive and contributing with taxes as well as bolstering social security.  can we say racist?  the majority of aborted people were black and hispanic, communities where on demand abortion is used as a method of contraception.  abortion is the tool of the white communist elitists in the democratic party keeping the number of the colored competition managable.

margaret sanger is smiling in hell as we debate this great wrong.  her racist policy has worked infamously.
Wow, now I know what's out in right field.
Title: Wtg Sc!!
Post by: storch on April 21, 2007, 03:22:15 AM
aw c'mon google margaret sanger.  btw that's center field, you guys are so far left your in the soccer stadium.