Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: 1K3 on April 19, 2007, 11:46:55 PM
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Bf 109 vs Fw 190
Which is your favorite German fighter?
:)
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190 can do "more" IMHO with the variants, and ammo loads... and flown well it is uber deadly.
but I AM biased, as the dora is the prettiest WWII plane ever made ;) :aok
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Depends what style of fighting Im in the mood for.
I like em both
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I like the 109 better 190 is a good BnZ.
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109 by far, ammo is the same, just different amounts. 109 allows for the ability to both BnZ as well as turn and burn. I have a limited experience in the 190, but find that it's primary use is bomber destruction and BnZ. I have seen some pilots do amazing things in a 190. sHawk would probably argue for the 190, i've seen him handle a Dora with great precision, never been on the receiving end of his 190 though.
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I'd say 109, just because I'm a turn and burn kinda guy.... but there's nothing like letting a B-24 have it in the cockpit with 2x 30mm, 2x 20mm, 2x 13mm, and 2 WgR-21 rockets. :)
190a8 of DOOM!!!!!!!
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109E
Just cause it looks better :)
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/109E7TropSicilyJG27.jpg)
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It's hard to say.... The 109 and the 190 are my favourite aircraft in real life and in the game.
Both are more deadly than most people think when in the right hands.
From a fun perspective, late model 109s are probably more fun in the MA, because flown well, they can hang with the turners and keep up with with speed rides.
The K4 is a Pony killer. I get a warm feeling inside when I see a co-alt pony when I'm the K4.
I love the 190 A8... it's so brutal. It's a rough b|tch to fly, but it hits so hard that's it's worth it.
I even landed a few in a 190 F8 attack sortie the other night.
I must admit, whilst I am a Dora and 109 K4/G-14 fan most of the time I have taken a shining to the 109 G6 of late.
It's a change from the other 109s I fly usually, because I run it with the gondolas (which i never do otherwise) and it still seems to turn like a dream. Not to mention the fact that 3x20mm and the two Mgs hit really, really hard.
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I used to fly the 109F and the 190A5, but after flying with stang and nath, I have a better appreciation of the K4 and the A8. Plus, I think the 30mm hit animation is hawt.
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Originally posted by Guppy35
109E
Just cause it looks better :)
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/109E7TropSicilyJG27.jpg)
Woooooooooooooooo JG27 skin! That would rawk.
:aok
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They both fly different, for sure. The 109's have that funny Torque-characteristic that makes them harder to turn right than left(Or is it the other way around???) The E retention is great, though.
The 190's change alot over different mk's. the A5 is really a nimble little plane with the right fuel onboard. The A8, of course, is most likely the most heavily-armed single engine fighter in the game, but it's handling seems to suffer because of it. The Dora is a great plane, Similiar in many respects to the pony, performance-wise. And we can't forget the Ta-152. It's the king speed demon, although that is at a height that very few ever reach in this game, let alone fight there.
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I think i have a love-hate relationship with 190s. I love the 190 because of its brick-like qualities. I hate that I can't engage in 1 vs 1 dogfites because it's a brick.
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i would say 109, but there just aint enough ammo on them.
190 by far but then my stats show me as a 190a8 and Ta152 flyer lol
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I prefer the 190..they taste better.
-Sp0t
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Originally posted by 1K3
I think i have a love-hate relationship with 190s. I love the 190 because of its brick-like qualities. I hate that I can't engage in 1 vs 1 dogfites because it's a brick.
Well put. I guess if the object is to shoot bombeers, the FW is the way to go. If I have to fight other planes, though, I believe I'd take any variant of the 109 before I'd climb into a FW.
- oldman (except that Grits keeps making me fly the A8)
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Originally posted by Oldman731
Well put. I guess if the object is to shoot bombeers, the FW is the way to go. If I have to fight other planes, though, I believe I'd take any variant of the 109 before I'd climb into a FW.
- oldman (except that Grits keeps making me fly the A8)
NOW they tell me!
::Note to self. Dont take up 190s to fight other fighters:: :D
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190A-5
Enjoyable plane that can hold it's own and almost do it all with proper rudder control.
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Originally posted by Guppy35
109E
Just cause it looks better :)
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/109E7TropSicilyJG27.jpg)
Amen, brotha!
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For all the years I played Air warrior I used the 190A8 primarily. Of course it was modeled differently in Air Warrior. It could just about out run anything there. In AW it had turn capabilities as it has here (none A8) and would lose E fast in the turn. However it would out turn almost anything at 300 or above. If kept turning it would bleed E fast and end up slow and with whatever on it's 6. In Air Warrior the Jug was an afterthought.
In AH seems to me the A8 without the 30s handles a bit better then the A8 with the 30mm package. Handles almost like it has the added armour of the A8/R8. It is slightly more nimble with the 4X20mm package imho. The D9 runs well and can lead the league in assists.
All in all the P47 is a much better aircraft. Climb rates are approx. the same but rate of turn go with the P47. For very high alts the 152 is good but again the NJug is much better at that alt. The 8X50s have a faster rate of fire and can reach out and touch someone at a greater range.
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The 109 is the answer to every question.
- Achtung Schpitfire/turney thing! - 109F4
- Achtung Buffs! - 109G14 30mm + gondies
- Achtung Runstang/fast thing! - 109K4
- Achtung base attack! - 109G2/G6 (depending on your preference...for me G2, I only use BB's to try and force my target to turn.)
- Achtung n00bs in Spixteens! - 109E4
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Let me chime in here.
I like 190s. There was a time they'd have the vast majority of my kills in the stats. I also like 109s.
However, I think I can sum it up this way:
When I'm in a 190 and fight a 109 I expect to die
When I'm in a 109 and fight a 190 I expect an easy kill.
^-- given equal E situations, mind you
190 is a great plane, and YES it can dogfight, but sometimes you just gotta disengage, and a lot of times you can't do that because you're not fast enough to run away.
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Originally posted by republic
The 109 is the answer to every question.
- Achtung Schpitfire/turney thing! - 109F4
- Achtung Buffs! - 109G14 30mm + gondies
- Achtung Runstang/fast thing! - 109K4
- Achtung base attack! - 109G2/G6 (depending on your preference...for me G2, I only use BB's to try and force my target to turn.)
- Achtung n00bs in Spixteens! - 109E4
[/B]
i agree but the K4 and the G14 only hane 1 30mm with 65 rounds total,the K4 and G14 do have great climb rates.The 190A8 has 2 30mms with 130rounds total,it makes it easer to kill your target and quicker killing bombers.the 190-D9(dora) has great speed and fire power,also it has great role rate. But the turning it lacks in,the 190-F8 is great for ground targets, it has 2 20mms and 2 13mm,it can also hold a 500GP kg bomb also it can hold 12 PB1 rockets or 4 50AP kg bombs,the rockets and bombs are armor piercing aswell so a greater chance of killing what you were going for, the 109's and 190 have the good and bad trats,it depends on what that person likes.
i usually fly the 190's around,they dont compress as quickley as a 109 dose. I fly the K4 and G14 if i need to get alt fast.If the 109 has a better ammo load out on the 30mms i would fly them more but im a 190 fan for the most part.
~VansCrew~
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Originally posted by VansCrew1
i usually fly the 190's around,they dont compress as quickley as a 109 dose.
I have augered into the ground more times than I'd care to admit by underestimating (again and again) the 109's propensity to compress. You think you can control it with throttle and control surfaces but...again and again it'll bite you in the butt.
I'd say the 109 is a jack of all trades, whilst the 190 is simply the butcher bird we all know and love. Both excellent planes, but both take years to master....and I am no master. :)
But after flying the 109 nearly exclusively for over a year, it's the plane I'm most comfortable in.
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true, it does compress,im just not use to it,im not the most efficient on saving ammo, the K4 and G14 do have 30mms but not alot of rounds and they do go by fast if your not watching them. the 190 has 500 rounds and normally you can get atleast 5kills out of them. i dont like to watch my ammo just like to blow stuff up.
~VansCrew~
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190... any model but the A8's my fave.
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109G-6:O :t
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If I'm flying with people whom I can trust my back, who aren't afraid to push the 190 aggressively when it comes down to multiple engagements, then the 190 is by far the superior choice.
If I have to fly alone, or have to do everything from the merge to the final coup-de-grace myself, or the people around you aren't very aggressive and can't to anything else than resort to lazy BnZ tactics despite there's an enemy plane right behind your tail, then I'd up a 109.
The 190 is simple and straightforward, needs no complicated tricks, and suited with people who fly with strict self-discipline.
The 109 is complicated, flashy, aggressive, and suited for people who like the hybrid E-smart flying style that lies somewhere between pure TnB and BnZ.
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Originally posted by VansCrew1
true, it does compress,im just not use to it,im not the most efficient on saving ammo, the K4 and G14 do have 30mms but not alot of rounds and they do go by fast if your not watching them. the 190 has 500 rounds and normally you can get atleast 5kills out of them. i dont like to watch my ammo just like to blow stuff up.
~VansCrew~
True... 190s do have more ammo... But 109s might be more capable of staying alive longer to kill more enemies. Meaning perhaps the 190 is more lethal, but only for a shorter time, whereas the 109 is less lethal, but over a longer time.
I've got an 8-kill sortie on film using the 109k-4. I wasn't even too good with it, really. Last kill was with 13mms only. In the 190 I usually don't last long enough to do that, or don't get the option to stick around long enough. Oh sure, I've got streaks in the 190 as well, it "seems easier" in the 109s.
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Originally posted by Kweassa
The 109 is complicated, flashy, aggressive, and suited for people who like the hybrid E-smart flying style that lies somewhere between pure TnB and BnZ.
Excellent description
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Learn to use your trim Republic and you'll never dive into the ground again... when you are compressing in the 109 elevator trim will pull you out of that dive. I like em both but fly the 190 more, just love that roll rate.
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Originally posted by VWE
Learn to use your trim Republic and you'll never dive into the ground again...
Ya, that saves me a few times, usually though when I compress...I go big. :) Especially in the heavy K4, it thinks it's a 190 when you dip that nose.
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I fly the A8 the majority of my flights and I've definately changed my style. I used to enter a dogfight and may chase the enemy down in a spiral or whatever untril we hit 500 feet and its just a who can turn tighter battle. Now its BnZ. As much as people hate it its something you have to deal with. Mainly because the A8 turns like the retired couple in their LeSabre trying to get over to the exit lane 6 miles before the offramp.
The A8 leaves you with only a few tricks in the bag if something fast and 'turny' is on your six. If you have ALT, Split S saves you lots of headaches most of the time. If you don't, you better alt tab out and check the plane comparison and see if your WEP can outrun them. If not, the Top Gun manuever hasn't failed me yet -> let them get within 600 and maintain dodging bullets, cut eng, full rudder and bank drop flaps around 180 (she'll be shakin' like a Parkinson's patient with ADHD) and watch them fly over the top of you. If you're lucky and you're able to punch the engine fast enough and have a little speed you can angle that nose up when they fly over you and they can taste your 30mm, if not you may be able to distance yourself were you can do an Immelman.
I used to fly only 109s, but the lack of view in the cockpit pissed me off one day and I took up a 190. If I'm buff hunting, I used to be worried about the guns on the bombers and being able to land enough accurate hits to take them out. Now, its can I get all 3 in one pass?
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Since I've flown the 190, I tend to jerk her a wee bit too hard at times. If I graphed it out and recorded data I'm sure my spins have increased at least 2-3 fold.
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Originally posted by Fulmar
Mainly because the A8 turns like the retired couple in their LeSabre trying to get over to the exit lane 6 miles before the offramp.
give that man a metaphor award!!! :rofl :rofl
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I like them both, but 109s...K4 in particular, are my babies.:t
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IMO F-4 and E-4 (to a lesser extent) are better than K-4.
Why?
More skinning options!
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Originally posted by Xasthur
The K4 is a Pony killer. I get a warm feeling inside when I see a co-alt pony when I'm the K4.
Thats so True:aok
Originally posted by Kweassa
The 109 is complicated, flashy, aggressive, and suited for people who like the hybrid E-smart flying style that lies somewhere between pure TnB and BnZ.
:rofl thats great.
bf-109 all the way.
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190A-8's don't turn that bad as long as you don't go into a continuous turn and you start with some speed. Not a lot different than a P-47D-40 in my opinion. In either one just keep them fast and keep the turns to a minimum but don't be afraid to turn a little either.
I mostly disagree with taking 190's over the top in an immelman though. To do so you've almost got to have some additional speed aquired through a dive. I usually prefer to invert and use a split S if I have enough alt or take it through a flat turn if I don't.
Due to the roll rates flat scissors are very effective in 190's when trying to escape a faster or better turning opponent. There's no way they can reverse the scissor with you and pretty soon you find yourself either coming around nose to nose with them or trying to grab the shot as they overshoot.
190's are consistantly my best rides camp after camp (all 4 models but the A8's my favorite) although I've been flying them a little less lately as I've been trying to fly my way through the entire plane-set.
As to this post I've been trying out the 109's this camp for the first time. I do like the K4, I guess because it feels a little like a 190D9 but I don't like the compression in any of the 109's. I also like the F4 as a substitute for my old regular ride, the Spit XVI. Even though the G2 feels good I just can't seem to get it working right for me but I've had moderate success in the G14. Maybe after I warm up to them a little more I'll change my opinion but I still have to say I prefer the 190's.
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There are few things in this game more exhilerating than completely outmerging a Spit V or IX in your A8 and blowing them to smithereens as they cross your nose on a 90* deflection :aok
That said, I think Misfit summed up the 190 quite nicely:
"Well, it's a piece of ****, really."
:D
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Originally posted by FrodeMk3
They both fly different, for sure. The 109's have that funny Torque-characteristic that makes them harder to turn right than left(Or is it the other way around???) The E retention is great, though.
The 190's change alot over different mk's. the A5 is really a nimble little plane with the right fuel onboard. The A8, of course, is most likely the most heavily-armed single engine fighter in the game, but it's handling seems to suffer because of it. The Dora is a great plane, Similiar in many respects to the pony, performance-wise. And we can't forget the Ta-152. It's the king speed demon, although that is at a height that very few ever reach in this game, let alone fight there.
Turns well in either directions IF you use that funny torque thingy :lol
Wanna turn right quickly? reduce throttle just a little and the right wing wants to drop....
a well flown 109 can frequently out turn a pony D.........
It of course depends on the pilots BUT...................
And if your packin gonds or not.................
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109 all the way. Been my favorite ride for a long time. Single 30mm nose cannon is more than enough for almost everything.
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the range of the K4's 30mm sucks you need to be at most 400 off of the enemy con to not wast your ammo spraying at them and thats 400 when their afk , the 30mm sucks for lead shots.
~VansCrew~
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Heh, it's worse than that vanscrew!
If you want to hit reliably with 30mm you have to be 200d, not 400!
Historically, vvs, LW, and even RAF pilots held fire until 100 yards or less. Keep that in mind and when you fire you won't miss!
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compare to 109, 190 is an example of German Over-engineering (TM):)
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the 30mm sucks for lead shots.
its not the ammo...
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... it's the ballistics!
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nope...its the pilot.
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I have the feeling that a late war 109 needs a better pilot than a late war 190 - that's why I fly 190's more often...
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As for the 190 I prefer the A8 or the A5.
As for the 109
I prefer the 109F
I Get a warm feeling when I come across a co alt pony in my F
(though beleive it or not I actually prefer when they have some alt on me)
Or just about any of the other rides co alt.
I just know when they get that 109F ID on me they are like "cool ,Easy kill"
And I just know they are saying "oh chit! gotta outrun this guy or Im dead" 30 seconds later. :D
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
I just know when they get that 109F ID on me they are like "cool ,Easy kill"
I feel the 109F is the most dangerous 109 in the game. When I see that tag my caution level go's up.
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Originally posted by Shamus
I feel the 109F is the most dangerous 109 in the game. When I see that tag my caution level go's up.
This is a WISE person!!! :D
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109k4.....
1 30mm, 2 12.7mm, and Uber climbing...FTW! :D
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190-A5 by far. A great little plane that will both BnZ and turn. It's greatest strength is that most pilots underestimate it. If your aim is good you won't loose a lot of fights. Most of my kills the last 5 years are in a 190 A5. Although, in a plain turnfight vs any 109 and a pilot that knows what he's doing, I'll loose.
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Originally posted by cerberos
Although, in a plain turnfight vs any 109 and a pilot that knows what he's doing, I'll loose.
It's a sad truth, sometimes you just can't win unless the other pilot has a seizure.
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I used to like the Dora a lot too.... but with the 2 x 20mm I just can't get any ****ing kills first pass anymore! haha.
Assist after assist after assist.
If flown correctly there is a 109 for any situation.
The 190 A8 is total blast though, I love that thing.
Great for base attack then fighter-cap.
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All-Around, I'd have to say the various loadout options of the FW190A8 make it the most versatile, It does not compress as easily as the 109 series if you attack from any altitude.
On the deck when you have to turn&burn the 109F4 is a beast. I used to love the 109G2 but it seems that it has had some of its performance curtailed.
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190A5 with 2 x 20mm and the Mg's unloaded is a darling.
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Bf-109. Always. Sexier. Looks Sinister. Sounds Sinister. Feels Sinister. The only bird for me.
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Originally posted by Serenity
Bf-109. Always. Sexier. Looks Sinister. Sounds Sinister. Feels Sinister. The only bird for me.
AMEN.
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K4 is a better fighter than any of the 190s; dora is the "safest" LW ride if you're a panzie.
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The pony is to the 109 what the Corsair is to the 190. See sig.
190 all the way.
Real men fly radials.
(http://les_butler.drivehq.com/jg26/fw190a8jg26priller-1_1.gif)
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well the fw190 could take alittle more of a beating than the 109, the whole aircooled radial vs. the liquidcooled inline(thers alot more pipe and guts and such) but the wing loading was higher on the 190 was it not? plus the 109 had automatic leading edge slats that made it quite a turning machine,not to mention it (bf109)was a rather small aircraft.theres not much to shoot at. and the whole fuel injection system was just freakin awsome! the 190 was a hell of a perfomer though. but hey galland liked the 109 and i have to say that it is very pleasing aircraft to look at.
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Originally posted by slider
,not to mention it (bf109)was a rather small aircraft.theres not much to shoot at.
There is not much difference in 109 & 190's dimensions.
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sorry, i ment from a front or rear view. its rather thin. but i guess thats errelivent.
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Originally posted by Lusche
There is not much difference in 109 & 190's dimensions.
The Dora looks quite a bit larger in game than a 109
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Originally posted by Xasthur
The Dora looks quite a bit larger in game than a 109
A series looks smaller than the Bf-109. Radial vs Inline makes it shorter.
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Had a bash in the 190 A5 tonight.... That thing is a brutal murderer.
The great thing about it, even more so than the 109F, is that people underestimate it once they get in icon range.
On top of that, people see the '190' tag and do everything they can to get up their speed and E as they assume it will be a running Dora.
I burtalised many N1ks and Spits tonight, aircraft that should have turned all over me because they came in hot and underestimated the 190's ability to turn.
the A5 is incredibly agile (mine turned well inside a Typh, too) and those 4 x 20mm hit very nicely. Don't even both with the MGs, just use the cannon.
Rolling scissors is your friend in the 190.
I've got some great screenies but i'll post them later.