Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: zlehmann on April 20, 2007, 08:23:06 AM
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alright so im pretty new to the game but i was absolutely wrecking everyone i was playing against 2 days ago (not bragging just saying). yesterday i hoped on again to mop up some other poor souls but it didnt quite work out that way.
im in love with the la-7. i love its decent climb rate and the cannons, my god the cannons! anyway ive been using my planes strengths and fighting the energy fight against my opponents. last night i ran into a bunch of spitfires and quickly came to the realization that i couldnt out climb them or force them into a stall (i looked up their stats this morning). i thought spits were turn fighters which it appears they are but they have a darn good climb rate too.
ok so finally the question...what are some of you pro's strategies when you come up against a spit? ive heard something about barrel roll fighting? any ideas?
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In the La7, you don't want to force a Spitfire into a stall fight, they will chew you up. Do not turn with them in a the medium speed range or they will chew you up.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
In the La7, you don't want to force a Spitfire into a stall fight, they will chew you up. Do not turn with them in a the medium speed range or they will chew you up.
Drat :t you are going to turn him into another La runner ;)
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oh im not running, its a lot more fun to watch my plane get shot to pieces in the review video later than it is to watch me run lol.
so if i cant outclimb them, and i cant out-turn them....should i just join their team lol?
oh well, ill figure something out. that la7 is sweet though, its pretty fast, nice and small profile, good cannons and decent climb. i was comparing it to the yaku's..but i just dont thing they are that much better than the la7.
maybe as my tactics improve i can hang with them a little better.
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The Spit 16 climbs better, turns better and even accelerates better at low-med speeds. Of course a good pilot in La7 can outturn a lousy Spit driver, but if both pilots know what they are doing, you have to fight at your strenghts, not the Spitty's. Keep speed up, manage your energy, and don't be shy to extend if needed. Over 300 mph you accelerate better & you have about 40mph more max speed. Just don't play his game.
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Originally posted by Lusche
The Spit 16 climbs better, turns better and even accelerates better at low-med speeds. Of course a good pilot in La7 can outturn a lousy Spit driver, but if both pilots know what they are doing, you have to fight at your strenghts, not the Spitty's. Keep speed up, manage your energy, and don't be shy to extend if needed. Over 300 mph you accelerate better & you have about 40mph more max speed. Just don't play his game.
thanks Lusche...it will be difficult but you gave me something to chew on before my next engagement!:aok
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Extension unfortuantly is the only option really. Which sux, because u will find your self running a good deal.
may I intrest u in the Yak. :t
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hey dont know if you want to bother with films n that but here are a couple of small films of the la7 vs spitfires.
La7 owns high spitfire (http://www.freeroleentertainment.com/la7vsspit.ahf)
La7 barrel rolls vs spitfires at fighter town (http://www.freeroleentertainment.com/la7vsspits.ahf)
the la7 is a fine aircraft if you dont fly it like a dweeb, no hos, no running away, you will make a good living in the la7 at about 2k right underneath a furball, rather than being the higher alt E fighter.
S!
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huh interesting you say that because thus far i've been much more successful running higher than others and diving down on them, maybe ive just been lucky! thanks for the vids im watching them now!:aok
oh and to respond to the other response about the yak...do you like it? i was looking at the stats and i didnt see too much of an improvement but i am yet to fly it. what is it you like most about it?
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no offense, but I get the impression you are just too happy!
How about throwing in a whine or something, come on sullen up.
and non of that glass half empty crap..thats for amateurs .. I wanna hear
"who the hell stole my drink!"
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Yaks are cool and great for learning to conserve ammo. They have their strengths like every other plane.
While you are checking rides out, take a look at the KI84. It's a good plane that is decent at about everything. It's not the king in any category, but it does alot of things well and it gets under estimated by opponents. It can bleed and gain energy fast and is fast enough to play with the bnz crowd, if you watch your dive speed and manage your E. It's a good turner and a very dangerous plane in that medium speed range that many fights end up at.
You also earn perk points 3 time faster than you do in an LA7.
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I used to fly Spits a lot. I always saw LA's as a lunch treat unless they ran away.
I've been flying the LA-5 and more recently the LA-7 a bit and here's what I've found; Keep them low (under 10K) and fast. Against turn fighters use them in a slashing role (attack, extend, turn, attack). Keep convergence under 400 as ballistics aren't that great.
Used this way they can beat just about anything.
They will, of course, out-turn a lot of planes but not the best turn fighters and they will B'n'Z and extend pretty well but not as good as the best B'n'Zers. They really fit into that middle ground so many of the planes in the set do although, like the Spits, they are at the upper end of that middle-ground. While the Spits lean toward the turn fight the LA's lean toward the B'n'Z role although both are pretty good at both styles of fighting.
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Originally posted by FBplmmr
no offense, but I get the impression you are just too happy!
How about throwing in a whine or something, come on sullen up.
and non of that glass half empty crap..thats for amateurs .. I wanna hear
"who the hell stole my drink!"
many years of training it takes to first class whiner become..
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Kill the spit on your first pass.
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I love my Spitfire =]
I find it hard to get someone off of my high 6 T__T
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Try the 190-A5. Nice little fighter. It's greatest strength is that it's underestimated and more often than not, not shown any respect. Which might be dangerous ;)
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Originally posted by Gulp
Yaks are cool and great for learning to conserve ammo. They have their strengths like every other plane.
While you are checking rides out, take a look at the KI84. It's a good plane that is decent at about everything. It's not the king in any category, but it does alot of things well and it gets under estimated by opponents. It can bleed and gain energy fast and is fast enough to play with the bnz crowd, if you watch your dive speed and manage your E. It's a good turner and a very dangerous plane in that medium speed range that many fights end up at.
You also earn perk points 3 time faster than you do in an LA7.
Agreed I love the Ki84 seems to do ok at high speeds as long as you don't put yourself in a bad situation. However on the deck it comes alive and you can turn the thing endlessly to stay out of enemy fire, it responds great if you know how to work it. It's weakness is lack punch in the guns. I normally won't even attempt a kill unless I'm 200 out in a KI84.
The LA is a nice plane but has a very bad rep in the game, because it's a favorite of guys with no tactics or skill. The typical La7 pilot normally tries to HO you then runs away to 1.5k then turns to try another HO pass.. Repeat until they run out of ammo or realize they are going to die then they proceed to run away.
As a side note both the LA7 and the Ki84 are both great planes for defending bases under heavy attack. The La7 because it has lots of power to get off the ground fast and start turning. The Ki84 because it has a slow stall speed and if you drop the flaps it comes off the ground pretty quick and can almost instantly start turning on the deck to avoid vulchers.
Another great turner is the A6M5b. It has much better cannons than the Ki84 but has no wep power, but the little plane climbs pretty dam good and turns on a dime if you keep it slow (200mph and under indicated speed).
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zlehmann, if you're lucky, you'll meet a smelly Spitfire pilot like myself. If you're unlucky, you'll meet one of those rare pilots dedicated to flying the spitfire so well, they can knock down some of the most experienced players.
Im simply a mechanic-in-training so i'll try to give as many pointers as i can. the spitfire did save my uncle's country after all, along with the hurricane.
The spitfires are very light aircraft. A spitfire IX weights about 5,749 lbs empty. An La-7 weighs about 5,850 lbs. empty give or take. Given the better acceleration of the La-7 in combination with more weight, it will zoom climb a little better, meaning that if a spitty and an La-7 both dove to a very high speed and pulled up at the same time, the La-7 would climb ever so slightly higher than the spitfire IX. You'll also dive faster. Just don't run in a duel past 2.5 K, as that's just not dueling anymore, it's running. Plus Spitfires have the wing washout affect or 'wing twist' which disables good response of ailerons in speeds of excess of 410 mph (while the fabric ailerons of a spitfire Ia will lock up at 350 mph). Forcing them into high speed turn fights may work as your more heavily wingloaded plane will turn tighter at those speeds.
Another disadvantage is that spitfires have only 2 flap settings: full deflection or none at all. Sometimes, they'll use this for overshoots. Other times, they'll be just try to turn with flaps on. The la-7 has multi-stage flaps meaning that it can have a tighter turning radius without too much drag. Spitfire XVI's are usually noobish and won't turn with you. Others have past that 'danger zone' (which is pretty much the point at which many planes' learning curves seem to intersect; i.e. a green F4U pilot will lose against a green Spit16 pilot, while a more experienced F4U pilot will maul a more experienced Spit16 pilot, and then theres that place where the plane just wont cut it anymore - where the pilot's skill is THE biggest advantage regardless of which plane they're flying - F4U or Spitfire, La-7 or P-51). When theyve gotten that good, you better watch out.
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Quoted "Just don't run in a duel past 2.5 K, as that's just not dueling anymore, it's running."
LOL... did you find this in the AH rule book or something? I don't remember reading it.
The LA7's greatest strength is it's speed and acceleration. If you get into a situation against an enemy or enemies and you see it isn't going your way, leave. That's what flying a faster plane does for you. It gives you the ability to get away, regain advantage then try again or go find another target.
Stop telling the new guys "You must fight everybody you meet until you die!" because you don't.
Unless you fly a Spitfire.
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you dont have to fight everyone you meet, but you do have to either run from or fight with everyone you meet. just depends if youre a runner or a fighter.
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Fight and die with some dignity. After all, it's not about winning, but about humiliating the enemy ;)
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Winning is everything.
If you fight and die, you are humiliated.
Fight to win.
You don't humiliate the enemy by falling to his guns.
You make him die with dignity.
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Our opinions differ there. You put up the best fight you can, sometimes it's enough, sometimes it's not, for lots of different reasons. I can still feel satisfied after a good fight, even if I turn out a looser. And the part about humiliating your enemy was a bit of irony, hence the winking smiley.
Good though that we van both enjoy the game in our own ways. You by winning, me by just appreciating a good fight :)
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the ultimate humiliation is one's own acceptance that turning back to fight is suicide, and therefore not an option.
there is no shame for me being shot down by the best or the worst as long as i got shot down fighting.
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Originally posted by B@tfinkV
the ultimate humiliation is one's own acceptance that turning back to fight is suicide, and therefore not an option.
Sound's a lot like airquake to me. May be fine for many people, but rarely for me. I try to win my fights. If turning back is sucide, I usually don't do it.
I set myself a mission, a goal, I choose my plane depending on mission requirements and fun factor. I'll try to accomplish my mission and get back home alive.
Sometimes I land with a badly shot up plane & no kills, but I feel happy & contend that I made it home at all.
That's part of my hallucination of being a WW2 fighter pilot ;)
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Originally posted by zlehmann
so if i cant outclimb them,
Oh, you can, but you have to have a lot more E than they do, Make them turn at you to lose E, then go vertical, they should follow you.
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i wouldnt use the speed of the La-7 to run, i would use it to extend away from the spits range and then when i have enough space to make a turn to come back head on with him i will. i would never leave the fight, but if i can buy a few thousand meters distance on him so i have time to make my slow lumbering turn to bring my guns to bare i will.
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Originally posted by zlehmann
i wouldnt use the speed of the La-7 to run, i would use it to extend away from the spits range and then when i have enough space to make a turn to come back head on with him i will. i would never leave the fight, but if i can buy a few thousand meters distance on him so i have time to make my slow lumbering turn to bring my guns to bare i will.
Translation: I won't run, I'll HO.
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Originally posted by zlehmann
i wouldnt use the speed of the La-7 to run, i would use it to extend away from the spits range and then when i have enough space to make a turn to come back head on with him i will. i would never leave the fight, but if i can buy a few thousand meters distance on him so i have time to make my slow lumbering turn to bring my guns to bare i will.
How to HO. Key chapter in LA7 manual? :confused:
A head on is usually a pretty bad idea, it's pretty much a 50/50 chance of winning and that's not good enough. Besides, going head on against 2 hizookas is pretty much suicide. You'll be a lot better off working on improving your merges.
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Never take a Head-On unless you EXPECT to die in it.
You have to be willing to end up in the tower when you initiate a HO. If you don't, don't kid yourself, you got lucky, plain and simple.
You have to see every HO as a 100% chance of death. If you happen to make it out the other end, learn from that brush with death and avoid the next one!
HOs are the last resort of the desperate.
That being said, sometimes you ARE desperate. In a heavy 190a8 vs a spit16 you can't outrun, outclimb, out turn, out roll, or outdive the enemy. You are fully justified in attempting to HO him. That's desperation.
However, if you have even ONE other alternative, take it instead.
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Originally posted by Blooz
Quoted "Just don't run in a duel past 2.5 K, as that's just not dueling anymore, it's running."
LOL... did you find this in the AH rule book or something? I don't remember reading it.
The LA7's greatest strength is it's speed and acceleration. If you get into a situation against an enemy or enemies and you see it isn't going your way, leave. That's what flying a faster plane does for you. It gives you the ability to get away, regain advantage then try again or go find another target.
Stop telling the new guys "You must fight everybody you meet until you die!" because you don't.
Unless you fly a Spitfire.
hah i don't know, i really didn't get it anywhere.. but you know what i mean as it's pretty obvious when someone's extending for energy and when someone's got their tail between their legs :D
but of course, you can disengage and run whenever you need - it just gets boring, you gain little experience, and you lose a kill, but if you're out of options, go run if you feel like it.
and as the others said, HOing is a bad idea. you have so many other advantages to use, so use them. more often than not, you'll out zoom a spitfire anyway so take the vertical into advantage and send him/her packing. it's a 3D world when you're flying a plane. i'll more often find a good Hog pilot more dangerous than a spitfire since most spits are dweebish like myself and aren't all that fast to begin with.
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huh i suppose, ive had extremely good success rates with the head ons though. whether its luck or not i dont know but 8 times out of ten my cannons tear the other plane apart before they can get a lethal blow in...although i have lost many oil canisters in the process lol.
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I find that shooting off the wings is the most effective way to deal with the Spitfire (any model). Any caliber of weapon will do it, 7.7mm, 12.7mm, etc ,those wings will just pop right off!:D
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Originally posted by zlehmann
huh i suppose, ive had extremely good success rates with the head ons though. whether its luck or not i dont know but 8 times out of ten my cannons tear the other plane apart before they can get a lethal blow in...although i have lost many oil canisters in the process lol.
8/10 is never considered luck. =O
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Originally posted by Krusty
That being said, sometimes you ARE desperate. In a heavy 190a8 vs a spit16 you can't outrun, outclimb, out turn, out roll, or outdive the enemy. You are fully justified in attempting to HO him. That's desperation
Exactly. Other than situations like that, or the other day I was in a heavy Mossie and an Fw190D-9 dove on me and from D5.0 out bore straight in at me, I was ok with the HO. Now, it was an incredibly idiotic thing for the Fw190D-9 to do given the multitude of ways he could have killed my Mossie without me ever have a chance at a shot, but it was a smart thing for me to do.
I won and went on to kill some tanks and a Spitfire Mk Ia :huh all because the Fw190D-9 pilot was a moron.
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Originally posted by zlehmann
huh i suppose, ive had extremely good success rates with the head ons though. whether its luck or not i dont know but 8 times out of ten my cannons tear the other plane apart before they can get a lethal blow in...although i have lost many oil canisters in the process lol.
lol i guess if you're comfortabel with it go ahead - but you'll be losing out on learning the magic of E fighting - that and you'll probably here me yelling and whining at you like a moron after you've HO'd me :lol
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Originally posted by Krusty
HOs are the last resort of the desperate.
Or the only tactic of the unskilled.
Originally posted by zlehmann
wouldnt use the speed of the La-7 to run, i would use it to extend away from the spits range and then when i have enough space to make a turn to come back head on with him i will. i would never leave the fight, but if i can buy a few thousand meters distance on him so i have time to make my slow lumbering turn to bring my guns to bare i will.
Hence the reason everyone calls LA7 pilots dweebs and noobs. I have nothing against the plane and I fly it from time to time during base defense, but the exact thing you just described is why no one will ever respect you as a pilot in this game.
It takes no skill to run away from a fight, then turn and HO someone. It's common respect out of experienced pilots not to go for a cheap first pass HO or try for continuous HO's failing to commit to a fight.
I'm far from a good fighter pilot but I can just about avoid an HO 99% of the time everyonce and a while I'll get HO'ed because I waited to long to turn or I get hit in a furball other than that anyone who is fairly good can aviod a HO.
I almost for the most part ignore LA7's during a fight, because it's easy to avoid the HO's and I know as soon as I'm on their six they will run away. So for the most part unless the LA7 is in a bad position and I know I can get the easy kill, I just ignore them because it's not worth my time to chase them. No thrill in the kill so to speak.
Learn to turn fight in a plane that takes a little skill to fly and never brag about HOing people.. Makes you look like a noob.
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The one thing everyone forgot to ask is are you talking about playing in the 8 person areans because if you new to this game you may be playing there and doing the spray and pray thing
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Originally posted by crockett
Or the only tactic of the unskilled.
Hence the reason everyone calls LA7 pilots dweebs and noobs. I have nothing against the plane and I fly it from time to time during base defense, but the exact thing you just described is why no one will ever respect you as a pilot in this game.
It takes no skill to run away from a fight, then turn and HO someone. It's common respect out of experienced pilots not to go for a cheap first pass HO or try for continuous HO's failing to commit to a fight.
I'm far from a good fighter pilot but I can just about avoid an HO 99% of the time everyonce and a while I'll get HO'ed because I waited to long to turn or I get hit in a furball other than that anyone who is fairly good can aviod a HO.
I almost for the most part ignore LA7's during a fight, because it's easy to avoid the HO's and I know as soon as I'm on their six they will run away. So for the most part unless the LA7 is in a bad position and I know I can get the easy kill, I just ignore them because it's not worth my time to chase them. No thrill in the kill so to speak.
Learn to turn fight in a plane that takes a little skill to fly and never brag about HOing people.. Makes you look like a noob.
seriously is there always like 20 guys in every video game forum that yells at someone calling them a worthless newb just because their tactics are different than what they want it to be. i mean seriously if i want to dive HO at you im going to you, and you can whine and whine all you want but guess what ill just do it again...
no one cares what you think is a dweeb newb tactic and at the end of the day i certainly dont care what you think of me, but dont harass someone on a public forum because someone is thinking differently than you, cuz ill be honest i bet there are lots of people that dont think like morons such as yourself.
go flame another forum with your hatin' wannabe
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Originally posted by zlehmann
will it matter that im not a subscriber? i just play on the 8 player arenas.
This would explain his prolific percentage of winning 8/10 HOs ... and his preferred choice to do so.
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Originally posted by zlehmann
go flame another forum with your hatin' wannabe
One thing i have to respect about you is how you don't let people pressure you - that right there is a good quality. However, Crockett was only trying to explain that he finds that La-7's HOing doesn't make those players any better since HOing Lala's are easy to dodge. Additionally, an HOing La-7 cant really dogfight so if it's caught in one, its screwed. Against a whole bunch of players online, it's fine for you to go ahead and HO if you're being ambushed since it's needed and you've got the firepower to do it properly.
But in duel situations it probably won't get you too far in terms of both gaining kills and gaining experience.
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wahhhhhhh:cry
yeah im just frustrated cuz i get killed a lot. i thought i understood the whole energy concept but i think im missing something. i try to enter fights from higher altitudes and a lot of speed, but i always miss my merge and the guy ends up right on my 6!!
anyone wanna tutor a total newb?
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Thats because you are coming in too fast and do nothing to prevent your overshoot. If its a single badguy with no horde around, try coming in a little slower....
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Originally posted by zlehmann
wahhhhhhh:cry
yeah im just frustrated cuz i get killed a lot. i thought i understood the whole energy concept but i think im missing something. i try to enter fights from higher altitudes and a lot of speed, but i always miss my merge and the guy ends up right on my 6!!
anyone wanna tutor a total newb?
Hence the reason I was trying to tell you about the HOing dweeb syndrome. I wasn't bashing you, I was telling you out right facts. Most skilled players in this game think of LA pilots as dweeb because usually HO ing is all they have.
I'm not an expert pilot in this game by any means and I do fly an LA on certain times mainly as base defense. It's not a bad plane but it's a easy plane to learn bad habits in. Thats what you are doing now, you are learning bad habits and once you make a few HO's and the guy aviods you. Well you have nothing left unless you run away.
My suggestion to you is this.. Start flying a spit 15 for a few weeks it's a good plane has power and handles great. So it won't be too big of a trade off from the LA7.
Start learning some turn fighting and then switch over to one of the other spits after a few weeks one of the lower powered planes. Like the Spit 5 or Spit 9. Always carry a drop tanks and only use 50% or 75% fuel at max (depends on the plane) Anyway the Spits do pretty good as high alt fighters and as turn fighters so it will give you experience at both aspects in the same plane.
Once you get good with the spits start playing with some of the other planes that take more skill to fly.. (spits are a bit too easy to fly IMO) Start playing with some of the Japanese planes or the American planes and eventually you will figure out a flying style that you do good with and have experience in a nice variety of planes.
A lot of guys will tell you to stick only to one plane when you are learning, but IMO I think it's best to keep trying new planes but stay in that new plane at least 2 weeks at a time while you learn it.
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Originally posted by SlapShot
This would explain his prolific percentage of winning 8/10 HOs ... and his preferred choice to do so.
Actually I'm about 8/10 on HO's in the MA's but it's usually noobs who start spraying at 1.5K so I'm not sure it really counts.
I figure if they want to test my HO abilities with my FW190 or my Hispano's I'll give 'em a quick lesson.
I love baby seals.
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the spitfire is kinda smelly as it wont outzoom or dive for beans. but you can energy fight in the 16 (XVI) and it gains energy quickly so it's much like the la-7 but without the diving, zooming or multi-stage flap skills.
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Originally posted by BaldEagl
Translation: I won't run, I'll HO.
:rofl :rofl :O
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zlehmann, I left you a private message. check it.
Emu
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thanks crockett, i think i might do that. ive always been kinda turned off by the spits just cuz everyone else loves them so much and i find them kinda boring. but obviously trying to learn all the tactics in the game on a la7 isnt going to work so its off to england with me!:aok
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Don't give up on the LA. Its a great fighter once you learn how to fight spits with it. Once youre done runing for a tactic try to turn on you enemy but dont turn more than a couple of times. Try using less fuel. Use flaps when needed. Basicly you need to know the LAs very well before you get into turn fighting with them. Then once youre good in the LA7 try the LA5 for more of a challange. The 5 does better in the turn but has less cannon.
Just like any other plane, you gotta put your time in and you will notice more kills as a result.
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If you want to out-climb spits, fly a 109.
Spiral-climbing is a fun move to pull on cocky spit pilots who think they can follow you up.
Climb up and right in an upwards spiral, looking back and right to keep the spitty in your field of vision.
Try and keep it in the bottom right corner of your canopy as you climb.
Climb climb climb, (drop flaps if necessary) watch spitty stall out, roll over dive down and take the nice broadside shot on the flailing spit
:aok
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Hehe, yep, the old "rope a dope"
Originally posted by Xasthur
If you want to out-climb spits, fly a 109.
Spiral-climbing is a fun move to pull on cocky spit pilots who think they can follow you up.
Climb up and right in an upwards spiral, looking back and right to keep the spitty in your field of vision.
Try and keep it in the bottom right corner of your canopy as you climb.
Climb climb climb, (drop flaps if necessary) watch spitty stall out, roll over dive down and take the nice broadside shot on the flailing spit
:aok
:)
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and train your accuracy too. i cannot count how many times my terrible TERRIBLE accuracy has not only made me lose points in basketball games but i've missed my shots on some e/a so many times, they just end up getting a shot on me after a while.