Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: humble on April 20, 2007, 10:16:28 AM
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I think that the fundemental difference is the apparent need for the GVer's to exploit bugs or other non player based elements. All the tiger whining is simply the result of people with no skill complaining tht there ride isnt "impervious". Now you seem to have every windmill manned by multiple GV's using the bug there.
I'd like to HTC put up a screen intro listing the current bugs and the warning that if you are reported for expoiting them (with supporting film of course) your account status is subject to review. No one should be "punished" for gleefully taking advantage where advantage can be found. But when that advantage is simply an exploitation of a design "bug" then it should be policed (again just my opinion). Since there is obvious intent to expand the ground game how about policing it a bit better.
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Sounds like someones alittle mad becasue they got pwned by someone in a windmill or useing that fence bug.:aok
Heres an idea they kill you once and you dont see them. You come back they kill you again and you see they are useing a bug you use a bomb. End of story.
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lol i love thw windmill,i look their first now to bomb,makes people mad if you bomb them with 30kills or more. But they do need to fix that glich, no names will be said but 69kills in a M4,come on. :D
~VansCrew~
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It's a shame that the title of your thread paints all GVs with such a broad brush.
I'm not one to panic and get all wound up over something as petty as this, and such a problem like a graphics bug are solveable so it really needs just a bug report and not a slight against a whole group.
Curios about this particular comment, however: No one should be "punished" for gleefully taking advantage where advantage can be found. But when that advantage is simply an exploitation of a design "bug" then it should be policed
This leads me to believe that you might find it acceptable to do, for fun, as long as it meets your criteria. What if someone else found it appalling that you would even do it "gleefully". Are they right and you are now subject to your own regulation? Who makes these decisions, and frankly, what on earth makes you think that we need a police state in there to Decide who is exploiting and who is being Gleeful? Who challenges that decision? Is there Glee Review Board that defines intent?
Do you honestly think that a simple bug report couldn't have sufficed and a slant against a group was really required?
Comments like this make me nervouse, how easily people succumb to requiring someone else to babysit and define "acceptable".
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LOL.......didn't even know there was a windmill bug..........thanks for the info...........will be on the look out
LTARokit<-------respwns with can of Raid in hand "Be vewy vewy quiet.......I'm hunting 'Windmill Bugs' ". :rofl
ROC, well said Bro.
Salute
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Originally posted by ROC
Is there Glee Review Board that defines intent?
:lol
Yep, you lose
:rofl
Mind if I use that in my sig... that's a good one.
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Originally posted by humble
I think that the fundemental difference is the apparent need for the GVer's to exploit bugs or other non player based elements. All the tiger whining is simply the result of people with no skill complaining tht there ride isnt "impervious". Now you seem to have every windmill manned by multiple GV's using the bug there.
I'd like to HTC put up a screen intro listing the current bugs and the warning that if you are reported for expoiting them (with supporting film of course) your account status is subject to review. No one should be "punished" for gleefully taking advantage where advantage can be found. But when that advantage is simply an exploitation of a design "bug" then it should be policed (again just my opinion). Since there is obvious intent to expand the ground game how about policing it a bit better.
someone should have a bottle of warm milk and take their napper
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I would have said in 2 sentences what he said in 2 paragraphs:
"Jb21 was dweebing it up in TT last night from inside a windmill. Please fix this bug ASAP."
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I fail to see how these comments on bug exploitation can be construed as whining. Anyone who considers it whining is a fool.
You should not be required to up a plane to bomb an exploiter.
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Oh, I agree. I was just saying I could have done it more succintly :)
EDIT: I was in TT last night, I was going to post this exact same thing but wasn't fast enough.
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if u keep gettin killed by the same guy at one spot heres a tip....dont go there
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Originally posted by humble
I'd like to (see) HTC put up a screen intro listing the current bugs and the(n) warning that if you are reported for expoiting them (with supporting film of course) your account status is subject to review.
Basically your saying that HT should ban people for exploiting a bug in the terrain they put out.
Wouldn't it be better if the bugs were just reported to HTC, so they could be fixed, and then everyone would have a level playing field again? (which is what you, and everyone else, including myself want.)
I hear alot of guys complaining about bugs in the MA, but i don't think some of them even know about the bb's.
If enough guys post in the bugs forum, it will call HT's attention to a problem that can be easily fixed.
Edit:
I made a post in the bugs forum. You can ellaborate there. :aok
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Originally posted by Engine
I fail to see how these comments on bug exploitation can be construed as whining. Anyone who considers it whining is a fool.
You should not be required to up a plane to bomb an exploiter.
If its not awhine then he needs to go Here (http://forums.hitechcreations.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=195).
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There are a lot of bugs around tank town, I have been seeing a constant flow of people landing 40-60 kills in tank town. Last night I seen 54 in M4. I cant say for sure, but I am guessing that is an exploit of bug! I used to enjoy TT, but now its just a place for people to gain perks. It takes the fun of TT that people have to exploit the bugs. Of course no one want to report them, then they couldn't use them. Think I stick to fighters, for now.
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What is the windmill bug? First I have heard of it. Is it something like the shore battery bug we used to have?
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Originally posted by 5PointOh
There are a lot of bugs around tank town, I have been seeing a constant flow of people landing 40-60 kills in tank town. Last night I seen 54 in M4. I cant say for sure, but I am guessing that is an exploit of bug!
You don't need to exploit any bugs to get that much kills. Just alot practice in GVs, patience, luck, SA and of course proper use of smoke screens. :aok
(It was me who landed that 54 kills)
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Originally posted by 68Ripper
What is the windmill bug? First I have heard of it. Is it something like the shore battery bug we used to have?
Yep.
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Originally posted by ROC
It's a shame that the title of your thread paints all GVs with such a broad brush.
I'm not one to panic and get all wound up over something as petty as this, and such a problem like a graphics bug are solveable so it really needs just a bug report and not a slight against a whole group.
Curios about this particular comment, however:
This leads me to believe that you might find it acceptable to do, for fun, as long as it meets your criteria. What if someone else found it appalling that you would even do it "gleefully". Are they right and you are now subject to your own regulation? Who makes these decisions, and frankly, what on earth makes you think that we need a police state in there to Decide who is exploiting and who is being Gleeful? Who challenges that decision? Is there Glee Review Board that defines intent?
Do you honestly think that a simple bug report couldn't have sufficed and a slant against a group was really required?
Comments like this make me nervouse, how easily people succumb to requiring someone else to babysit and define "acceptable".
ROC,
You are correct, the title was provocative....
My intent is to recognize that a fair amount of skill goes into being successful in the ground war. There is in fact a kind of "ACM" unique to this phase of the game. I've always enjoyed the "fluid" ground combat. TT historically brought out the most gamey aspects....in alot of ways the M4 has simply brought the ground game in balance. It's not really a perk vehicle (IMO)....but more like the la-7/spitXVI. Now once we have the "easy 8" and hopefully a T-34/85 everyone will have a better perspective (myself included).
I'll explain my "gleeful" comment for you. There are a number of terrain features easily exploitable (all based on subtle variations of placement). I have spawn camped TT with the best of them...in fact I'm getting "bombed out" alot more then i'm getting shot out of the saddle....assuming of course I can even get out from my own camped spawn:( :cry ......
Now to me this is all part of the game, I've suggested anti-tank guns etc to help break the camping. Since the M4 has "evened up" the playing field vs the "experienced" Gver in a tiger I've played alot more...and found it to be not only enjoyable....but very skill based. Enough that it might actually warrant a cadre of "GV trainers" as it expands. The lack of policing detracts from the large number of individuals who have learned and apply these tactics effectively.
If in fact a "bug" created a truely gamable factor in the air war (lets assume you could learn to spawn an "invisable plane" due to a skin defect...not only would HTC react quickly but the "other side" of the community would. Look at the constant comments on HO's...which are perfectly valid. No real BS like this would be tolerated.
It shouldnt in this aspect either. I realize that an awful lot of effort is going into other area's and its not realistic to expect patch's. I do think that true bugs that are exploitable for game play (for any part of the game) should be noted and "banned" if used to advantage.
There is large portion of the "GV community" I've gained alot of respect for now that the M4 has created some true variables in game play. I've also started launching PXIV's a bit using the same things I've "learned"....a broader vehicle set will give the GVers the same opportunity to use "inferior" rides to great success...I'd hate to be the guy trundling back to land 14 kills in a T-34 who gets popped by a tiger (he couldnt see or shoot) in a windmill behind his own spawn.
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Originally posted by 5PointOh
There are a lot of bugs around tank town, I have been seeing a constant flow of people landing 40-60 kills in tank town. Last night I seen 54 in M4. I cant say for sure, but I am guessing that is an exploit of bug! I used to enjoy TT, but now its just a place for people to gain perks. It takes the fun of TT that people have to exploit the bugs. Of course no one want to report them, then they couldn't use them. Think I stick to fighters, for now.
GV combat is suprising skill based, I landed 40 and I suck. I can easily rack up 5-15 kills (assuming I can get out of the spawn)....the exploits detract alot from what can be a very enjoyable aspect of the game. your comment highlights the issue....when a guy "lands" alot of kills in a GV we all assume hes camping/exploiting exetra....
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Originally posted by Speed55
Basically your saying that HT should ban people for exploiting a bug in the terrain they put out.
Wouldn't it be better if the bugs were just reported to HTC, so they could be fixed, and then everyone would have a level playing field again? (which is what you, and everyone else, including myself want.)
I hear alot of guys complaining about bugs in the MA, but i don't think some of them even know about the bb's.
If enough guys post in the bugs forum, it will call HT's attention to a problem that can be easily fixed.
Edit:
I made a post in the bugs forum. You can ellaborate there. :aok
If you look thru the bug forum you'll see I posted film on shooting thru storage tanks, commented on "invisable" tanks and that Vans Crew commented on this there already....
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Originally posted by storch
someone should have a bottle of warm milk and take their napper
Why dont you bring your 110 to the DA sometime. I'll fly the A-20.....
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My intent
Second post was well said, could have been the initial post and your "intent" would have gotten through.
As it was, there was nothing in the original post that even remotely eluded to the intent of what you meant.
I honestly wish there were more discussion with a thought process behind it as your second post, and far fewer of the original posts.
Might be asking a bit much though :D This board does have it's moments :rofl
and Ya, use the sig, I kinda cracked up while thinking about glee review board thing.
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windmill bug is easy, look no more. You enter the windmill, have to be careful, safest way is to enter by the door :D :D :D
Be careful not to leave your arse out, once you are in they cannot see you they cannot shoot you, they can bomb you. Great spot the windmill in the spawn of the rooks at TT.
Last night had 91 kill, rooks were kind enough to get supplies out, before I let they kill me like a dumbas.
Got a film too, if you want to see it will email those who ask.
I did ask about the bug, was told that was known and would be fixed next patch. I dont give a, well do as you like, I've been bombed, vulched, shot in the arse. Its just a game, so if it is there I will use it. I pay as much as anyone so if you dont like it you pay for my subscription and tell me what I can and cannot do with it.
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I certainly have no right to tell anyone else what to do...and I cant argue with the logic that if someone else is going to do it then I am to. The flip side is you can simply recognize its a bug and elect not to use it (since it seems all windmills were taken this AM thats not the case)....
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So "it's a race to see who can get into a windmill the fastest"?
The list of quality players has been getting short for a while, crap like this increases it tenfold. Pathetic, and all in the "name of points".
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Originally posted by Lusche
You don't need to exploit any bugs to get that much kills. Just alot practice in GVs, patience, luck, SA and of course proper use of smoke screens. :aok
(It was me who landed that 54 kills)
I apologize for assuming that it was all bugs, but so many people land that many and a lot of people do assume that eplotation or severe camping. But if you all recall before the new update, you didn't usually hear of 50+ kills. After being trapped in a water tank the other night and being able to kill as I may with out anyone seeing me, I decided to stay away. I'm sure HTC is working on fixes for the bugs.:D
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Originally posted by Engine
I fail to see how these comments on bug exploitation can be construed as whining. Anyone who considers it whining is a fool.
You should not be required to up a plane to bomb an exploiter.
It is when you post a bug report in the General Discussion Forum and use a title that is offensive to players who enjoy the GV war.
I don't mind being a fool, by your definition.
:aok
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Originally posted by 5PointOh
I apologize for assuming that it was all bugs, but so many people land that many and a lot of people do assume that eplotation or severe camping. But if you all recall before the new update, you didn't usually hear of 50+ kills. After being trapped in a water tank the other night and being able to kill as I may with out anyone seeing me, I decided to stay away. I'm sure HTC is working on fixes for the bugs.:D
No need to apologize, I didn't feel attacked at all. But I did camp, I got most of that kills by just sitting in front of the spawn. But it's hard NOT to camp in TT... drive away from your own spawn and you have an enemy spawn point in front of your gun after a few seconds. Basically any time you stop at one place is camping...
BTW, I never was able to get 50+ kills in TT before. I just had the unusual luck that nobody did bomb me. Usually I get egged after 20 kills ;)
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Might be a graphics bug, but I could see JB21 as he was parked inside it. At first I thought he was in front of it, but I could see him.
So it's not always such a secret spot.
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On my FE, 21's tank was flickering in the windmill. Noticing the tank flashing alerted me to the tracers coming out of both windmills, and tracers coming out of buildings are practically homing beacons to my B-26s.
Not to single him out of course, he just happened to be the most recent one. I can't count the number of people I've seen inside the fence, storage tanks, or windmills, and I use our uber formations to divebomb them anyway, so it's a full circle of lame-but-funny.
I have to wonder why HTC doesn't release small patches to fix some of the more abused or frustrating bugs, but they run the business, and I pay for access to the servers, so what I wonder doesn't mean much. I know this has resulted in more whining than any other bug I can recall, and I would have thought HT would be as tired of it as everyone else.
Anyway, be careful in those windmills after 11pm eastern. :t
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maybe the title of the thread should have been something like
"Why GVers are concidered lame...."
its the same reason those who fly LA7s are dweeb, because of those who game the game in stead of using skills to win. HOin with all those cannons on the nose of that LA doesn't show a bunch of skill, but if everyone else is doing it......
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Originally posted by 5PointOh
There are a lot of bugs around tank town, I have been seeing a constant flow of people landing 40-60 kills in tank town. Last night I seen 54 in M4. I cant say for sure, but I am guessing that is an exploit of bug! I used to enjoy TT, but now its just a place for people to gain perks. It takes the fun of TT that people have to exploit the bugs. Of course no one want to report them, then they couldn't use them. Think I stick to fighters, for now.
Just because someone landed a load of kills don't assume it was because of spawn camping or bug exploitation. I have had 50 + kills defending a town. This can be verified by members of the DEA (Rooks Death Enforcement Agency) wonder and motor19, Bhawk and the others that were attacking that town at that time.
That being said, most, not all of the landings of large number of GV kills are from spawn camping.
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Originally posted by Flame 2 the boy
if u keep gettin killed by the same guy at one spot heres a tip....dont go there
:rofl :rofl it's so true and simple it's sad
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Originally posted by REP0MAN
It is when you post a bug report in the General Discussion Forum and use a title that is offensive to players who enjoy the GV war.
I don't mind being a fool, by your definition.
:aok
My intention was/is to create a discussion. For some reason the "GV" guys arent as adament about policing themselfs. For the GV segment to grow and expand I think a little more peer pressure might help. The bug report already existed. I didnt post a "bug report" I commented on those players using the bug AFTER it was posted for an advantage...bad enough your dealing with camping...now your dealing with attacking windmills
(http://www.az-dsl.com/snaphook/help%20my%20tank%20got%20stuck.jpg)
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Originally posted by Larry
Heres an idea they kill you once and you dont see them. You come back they kill you again and you see they are useing a bug you use a bomb. End of story.
You mean like this.. :D film included.. http://www.hitechcreations.com/frindex.html
I do agree with the thread starter. Any game I've ever played online, when players were caught using hacks they were always ousted. So why no here?
Here it's the additude of hummm how can I do that..IMO using a wall hack is out right cheating no if's and's or but's. They know they have very little chase if any of being killed by other GV's and are abusing a bug end of story.
There are also still buildings that you can go inside and will pop allowing you to stay inside and kill guys with out being seen at TT. I find it rather lame and really un fair to the guys that play a legit game.
All I can say HT guys is please fix this stuff :cry. I also know it's a dead horse but the spawns at TT really need some cover. The spawn the rooks have had in LWblue the last week or so, has to be the worst one of the bunch.
Also in regards to smoke.. Some guys don't even see the smoke because of their video cards, putting the guys that do see it at a big disadvantage.
With planes the only real bug I see abused but only by a few, is when you get on someone's 6 Then they start spin ing the plane all over the place. The guys like look a like a fish flopping on the ground.
No way in hell could a plane do that in real life and it is a bit annoying when someone starts doing it. Only good thing is not many can seem to do it, so it's not wide spread and as easy to do as driving up to a fence and shooting through it.
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Originally posted by VansCrew1
:rofl :rofl it's so true and simple it's sad
Yea too bad that spot seems to be the Spawn at TT..
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The pic above is from a guy in the Rook TT spawn windmill. In this case it happens to be a rook defending...when I was on a little while ago Carlsbee was back in there. So he's almost right on the rook spawn. Exactly how do you suggest the rooks avoid him....jee maybe they can borrow the bishop spawn.....even better why not add a windmill to the game so they can just spawn a windmill instead:)
"The man with the windmill spawns...the man behind drives into the windmill and shoots...":aok
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Hmmmm-
Could one of you guys check out the shore battery thing again, to make sure it's not back? I would but I get full body muscle twitches if I'm in a gv...
The reason I ask is that last night I kept getting a panzer icon near the shore battery during a cv battle at our field. I dropped in to straf a bit, but could never see him or hit him. I could only see his icon. I made several passes, but lost interest. I was in the orange arena as a bishop, but don't remember the map name. The water was to the east of our field.
I was not aware of this bug, and actually figured I must have been having graphics issues.
I know it wasn't a windmill he was in though. I think those are really cool and would have remembered. It looked more like a big pile of dirt, maybe it was the shore battery??
I actually thought he must have been crowded up against it so tight I couldn't see him, even when I zoomed my view all the way in.
MtnMan
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Originally posted by crockett
You mean like this.. :D film included.. http://www.hitechcreations.com/frindex.html
I do agree with the thread starter. Any game I've ever played online, when players were caught using hacks they were always ousted. So why no here?
It is the same here. Anyone using a hack will be history...
But note that exploiting a bug / glitch isn't a hack. Changing the code of the game, or using external programs manipulating the game engine or data flow is.
Heck, If I was a new young player, maybe I did just see someone shooting out of that windmill without me even knowing that this is an exploit.
Not that I wan't to encourage anyone exploiting bugs. Though I am one of that honorless vulching and ho'ing ack-huggers, I completely refrain from hiding in windmills, shorebatteries and other bugs and hope others do the same and that this very bug is fixed very soon.
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With the demise of AW and the abomination called "Relaxed Realism" those people have to be able to do something!
(cackles madly.... lol)
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Originally posted by mtnman
Hmmmm-
I know it wasn't a windmill he was in though. I think those are really cool and would have remembered. It looked more like a big pile of dirt, maybe it was the shore battery??
I
Sounds like he was just driving into a bomb crater, which does look like he is under it from the air. That's an old bug apparently not fixed yet.
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Originally posted by Lusche
No need to apologize, I didn't feel attacked at all. But I did camp, I got most of that kills by just sitting in front of the spawn. But it's hard NOT to camp in TT... drive away from your own spawn and you have an enemy spawn point in front of your gun after a few seconds. Basically any time you stop at one place is camping...
BTW, I never was able to get 50+ kills in TT before. I just had the unusual luck that nobody did bomb me. Usually I get egged after 20 kills ;)
Well there is a difference in camping on a spawn vs camping else where on the map. I normally never camp a spawn, to shoot guys as soon as they pop. I think it's lame and takes no real skill. However I have done it and wont say I haven't, most of the times it's when I've been repeatedly spawn camped myself I figure payback is a *****. :D
Personally I'd rather they just fix the issue, so the point you spawn you aren't getting hit from the other spawn. Seems simple enough to make a few adjustments to the map. Any other map if a spawn is camped then you just go to another base or spawn. On TT map the only real GV battles are on the TT island Which only really has one spawn option unless you want to drive 20 mins to get to the fight.
The new trees are a pane in the butt to drive through, why can't they just add some big thick forests between the three spawns? Then add in a few more small hills in the spawn area, so no single tank could see the whole spawn. At least that would make a spawn camper have to work to get to a good camp spot and give guy's a chance to at least start their engine..
As far as camping other locations I see nothing wrong with it, I have a few nice camp sites inside the TT town and I typically rack up quite a few kills at them. I'm not camping a spawn nor am I exploiting a game bug other than using smoke. So I see nothing wrong with that sort of camping, at least when someone camps else where in a map there is a good chance he can be killed.
With the current spawn camp problem on TT is the direct cause of why the VH's are always being bombed. Team A gets team B's spawn camped, so team B ups bombers to go kill team A's VH.. It's a endless circle that could easily be fixed with a few small adjustments to the map.
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In all fairness if a tank in WWII wanted to he could drive into a windmill and make a hole then back into it and use it as a hiding space. I still don't know why heavy tanks can't drive through trees or buildings. I mean not alot can stop a tiger going 25mph.
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The point is, he can fire out, but no rounds will ever go in, because they explode harmlessly on the windmill, rather than on the tank.
It's a super shield power-up from Quake.
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Originally posted by Lusche
It is the same here. Anyone using a hack will be history...
But note that exploiting a bug / glitch isn't a hack. Changing the code of the game, or using external programs manipulating the game engine or data flow is.
Heck, If I was a new young player, maybe I did just see someone shooting out of that windmill without me even knowing that this is an exploit.
Not that I wan't to encourage anyone exploiting bugs. Though I am one of that honorless vulching and ho'ing ack-huggers, I completely refrain from hiding in windmills, shorebatteries and other bugs and hope others do the same and that this very bug is fixed very soon.
I use the term "hack" as in "wall hack" which is what this sort of thing is usually called in most games. When people find an exploit in a game which allows them to look through a wall it's called a wall hack.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wall_hack or maphacking http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maphack
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Originally posted by Krusty
The point is, he can fire out, but no rounds will ever go in, because they explode harmlessly on the windmill, rather than on the tank.
It's a super shield power-up from Quake.
Well we all know that germans used magic shields on thier tanks in WWII.
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The sherman makes "spawn camping" a real "tactic" in the sense that your not being blasted by an impenatrable tank {except to another tiger}. The combination of traverse smoke and hitting power lets even a small group (or single) "fight out" of the spawn against anything but overwhelming numbers. You cant just roll your tiger out to a spot behind the normal facing and know that even if the other guy spawns a tiger you'll get 2 shots before he can even get his turret around 99% of the time....
At 60 perks a piece how often to you break a spawn camp vs a tiger....
I've been chased out {or more likely killed} repeatedly and have "de camped" our TT spawn more then once myself. The FF has made the GV game alot more balanced...
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Originally posted by crockett
I use the term "hack" as in "wall hack" which is what this sort of thing is usually called in most games. When people find an exploit in a game which allows them to look through a wall it's called a wall hack.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wall_hack
Like I told another guy talking about the fience bug. He was calling it a hack. I told him try not to use the word "hack" becuase that implies that he is cheating and thread might get locked when you start trowing those words around. Anyone who does this is exploting a bug thats all.
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Originally posted by Larry
In all fairness If a tank in WWII wanted to he could drive into a windmill and make a hile then back into it and use it as a hiding space. I still don't know why heavy tanks can't drive through trees or buildings. I mean not alot can stop a tiger going 25mph.
I agree, if you could model damage right a Tank should be able to create a cover like that....and a HVAP round from a FF or tiger wouldnt be stopped by a few 2 x 4's either.
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Originally posted by crockett
I use the term "hack" as in "wall hack" which is what this sort of thing is usually called in most games. When people find an exploit in a game which allows them to look through a wall it's called a wall hack.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wall_hack or maphacking http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maphack
From the source you gave:
"Wallhacking is the changing of wall properties in first-person shooters. Most wallhacks are used to make a map's walls at least partially transparent, allowing players to see objects lying behind a wall. "
Changing the properties - That is hacking, you have to manipulate parts of the program to achieve something. Nobody did manipulate the windmill, it's just exploiting.
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Originally posted by Larry
Like I told another guy talking about the fience bug. He was calling it a hack. I told him try not to use the word "hack" becuase that implies that he is cheating and thread might get locked when you start trowing those words around. Anyone who does this is exploting a bug thats all.
Well that's exactly what is wrong with the GV community. There is no self policing of the players. We can't just expect HT guys to do everything there are always going to be little bugs here and there. All we can ask is that they fix the issues when we present to them.
However acting as it's ok to game the game by using exploits because we don't want to call it cheating or it might hurt someone feelings is a load of BS IMO. No offense meant and I can understand where you are coming from, but these guys that take advantage of this stuff know what they are doing.
If we act as if it's no big deal, then they will continue to seek out and exploit bugs. You may not think it's cheating but I do. If I jumped on a legit well run counter strike server or a quake server and started shooting people though walls how long would I last before a mod banned me?
This game is unlike most others, not only can you take screen shots but you can also easily record it. So why can't we call it what is it when we can prove they are exploiting the game?
If players knew they would be outed for stuff like this they likely wouldn't do it. Which is what half the problem is here.
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Originally posted by Lusche
From the source you gave:
"Wallhacking is the changing of wall properties in first-person shooters. Most wallhacks are used to make a map's walls at least partially transparent, allowing players to see objects lying behind a wall. "
Changing the properties - That is hacking, you have to manipulate parts of the program to achieve something. Nobody did manipulate the windmill, it's just exploiting.
you didn't read the entire thing...
"Other types of wallhack include "wallwalk", in which players become able to see through and walk through walls. Sometimes referred to as "ghostmode", this hack enables sneak attacks on anyone walking by the wall, as the player inside the wall is essentially invisible."
While the fence deal isn't exactlly this it's pretty much the same because they can't be shot unless you also use the same glitch. However the windmill bug anbd the other building bugs are this same thing.
If you don't like that then call it maphack as I also posted..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maphack I don't care what it's called but it's still cheating in my book.
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Originally posted by Westy
With the demise of AW and the abomination called "Relaxed Realism" those people have to be able to do something!(cackles madly.... lol)
Indeed, but as im sure most AW vets can admit to, most of us found our beginnings in RR until we realized it was like playing t-ball when we were in first grade. Place the ball on the T, hit the ball. All 11 players (you can't sit anyone out) on the field run to the ball, including the first baseman. But not to worry because the runner ran to third base. And in the end there are no losers, only those who peed their pants.
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Crockett, you're missing the point. HACKING is changing the code. Discussing hacks on the forums is a NO-NO. HTC deals with cheats/hacks privately.
EXPLOITING is just being a lame-arse dweeb, getting somewhere you shouldn't be able to, but not changing, hacking, or breaking the code in any way. What we have here are exploiters, and this bug will no doubt be fixed, but for now it's annoying.
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Originally posted by Krusty
Crockett, you're missing the point. HACKING is changing the code. Discussing hacks on the forums is a NO-NO. HTC deals with cheats/hacks privately.
EXPLOITING is just being a lame-arse dweeb, getting somewhere you shouldn't be able to, but not changing, hacking, or breaking the code in any way. What we have here are exploiters, and this bug will no doubt be fixed, but for now it's annoying.
Are we really arguing what it's called rather than the real issue?
Ok call it "Exploiting" if it makes you guys feel better.. I still call it cheating.
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You might not have noticed, there's no talking of cheating/hacking on these forums. It's not allowed.
That is why we're splitting hairs. There's a distinction between the two categories.
EDIT: Using one vs the other doesn't really change the person that does it, but it makes a big difference with how you discuss it, and the accusations you throw around.
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Originally posted by crockett
Are we really arguing what it's called rather than the real issue?
Ok call it "Exploiting" if it makes you guys feel better.. I still call it cheating.
Thats the point these guys are trying to make, its NOT cheating, it is "exploiting a bug" in the game. If it was cheating then you would see the mighty hand of god (HT) smite those that are doing it. .... by the way that was one of the things suggested by "humble". Should HT step and and start putting some of these people who are "exploiting a bug", in the "penalty box" it may curb this kind of thing.
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Originally posted by The Fugitive
Thats the point these guys are trying to make, its NOT cheating, it is "exploiting a bug" in the game. If it was cheating then you would see the mighty hand of god (HT) smite those that are doing it. .... by the way that was one of the things suggested by "humble". Should HT step and and start putting some of these people who are "exploiting a bug", in the "penalty box" it may curb this kind of thing.
Don't think HTC should penilize people who are exploiting a bug. They should just try to get a patch out as soon as they can.
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I find it interesting this bug is offensive to you humble, yet you talked about landing many kills yourself using the smoke bug and how it was so much fun to you. I may be wrong, but to me, you're not being consistent.
Sorry if I have misinterpretted what you're saying.
Glove
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Originally posted by The Fugitive
Thats the point these guys are trying to make, its NOT cheating, it is "exploiting a bug" in the game. If it was cheating then you would see the mighty hand of god (HT) smite those that are doing it. .... by the way that was one of the things suggested by "humble". Should HT step and and start putting some of these people who are "exploiting a bug", in the "penalty box" it may curb this kind of thing.
Yep, so true. You also don't see the skies alight with IL2's anymore. This is just another example of dweebery at it's finest.
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Originally posted by Gloves
I find it interesting this bug is offensive to you humble, yet you talked about landing many kills yourself using the smoke bug and how it was so much fun to you. I may be wrong, but to me, you're not being consistent.
Sorry if I have misinterpretted what you're saying.
Glove
I think the difference in the smoke "bug" if it is a bug, is I think HT meant for it to work the way it does.
I think if you couldn't see through it at short range then you would end up running into things while moving. So it gives good cover at a distance but if you are close to it, you can see through it and the enemy can also see through it at short range.
Another issue is with 3d modeling to have the smoke show the same on both sides would require twice the amount of polygons per smoke cloud. A texture will only show on one side of a polygon. (hence the reason if you get inside a building you no longer see any walls.
Now I will admit I use smoke while at TT but it's not the same as hiding behind a wall that no one can shoot you. If you hide behind smoke you can still die and the other GV's can still see you or they can also puff their own smoke. So the only real bug I see in regards to smoke is that some guys with certain video cards don't see the smoke at all.
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What about the bug/glitch/whatever that allows a jeep to drive into a tank and kill it with the machine gun? That has obviously been allowed over time.
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They can't have GV collisions enabled due to various problems. Thus, no collisions, thus you can drive through other GVs. Not really a bug as much as it is a side effect from a compromise.
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Originally posted by Gloves
I find it interesting this bug is offensive to you humble, yet you talked about landing many kills yourself using the smoke bug and how it was so much fun to you. I may be wrong, but to me, you're not being consistent.
Sorry if I have misinterpretted what you're saying.
Glove
The smoke on the sherman is identical to the smoke on the PZ in its effects. I have successfully employed the same tactics with the PZ as the sherman. In some ways this goes to the heart of the post....using smoke and topography is as esential to "tanking" as the hi/low yoyo is to ACM. Properly fighting your tank isnt cheating anymore then using ACM is. This is a small part of what i'm learning & absorbing GV wise. I did in fact post a question regarding the smoke....since I was a "noob" with regard to GV's I assumed "this cant be right"....but in effect serious GVers have used smoke correctly long before the sherman came along. The fact that someone like me can gain a basic "skill level" that translates to better performance shows that tanking is in fact more "skill based" {especially with the M-4 equalizer:)} then I thought.
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Originally posted by Larry
Anyone who does this is exploting a bug thats all.
But exploiting a bug is considered cheating in virtually all MMO's on the market. Anytime a player uses a bug to gain an unfair advantage over another player is considered Exploiting and as I just mentioned, a violation of the Terms of Service for virtually all MMO's.
How is this act an unfair advantage for the guy hiding in the windmill? By exploiting the bug that allows him to clip into the windmill prevent others from being able to hit him while he can fire at will with little or no threat of being hit by retun fire.
Had that screenshot been taken in the MMO game I work with and a GM was able to witness the violation, that player would have been given an automatic 3 day vacation from the game while we review his account for termination.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by crockett
you didn't read the entire thing...
"Other types of wallhack include "wallwalk", in which players become able to see through and walk through walls. Sometimes referred to as "ghostmode", this hack enables sneak attacks on anyone walking by the wall, as the player inside the wall is essentially invisible."
While the fence deal isn't exactlly this it's pretty much the same because they can't be shot unless you also use the same glitch. However the windmill bug anbd the other building bugs are this same thing.
If you don't like that then call it maphack as I also posted..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maphack I don't care what it's called but it's still cheating in my book.
Lusche is correct, it's not a hack, it's an exploit caused by a flaw in the game code which is a bug.
A hack would be something like a speed cheat program that would allow you to move faster than what normal game mechanics would allow or a warp cheat that would teleport you from one location to another, or it could be a wire frame cheat that allows you to use wire frames instead of 3d models. Those are hacks because they change the game client, exploits do not.
The term "hack" has been hijacked as reference to almost all forms of cheating.
ack-ack
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Quote:
The pic above is from a guy in the Rook TT spawn windmill. In this case it happens to be a rook defending...when I was on a little while ago Carlsbee was back in there. So he's almost right on the rook spawn. Exactly how do you suggest the rooks avoid him....
Well put, this is the point. If it is on my side - defending from cheaters, if it is on their side - pure cheating.
Please notice that the poor guy defending from cheaters even leaves his fat arse out, just to make sure its a fair fight.
:D
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Originally posted by crockett
you didn't read the entire thing...
"Other types of wallhack include "wallwalk", in which players become able to see through and walk through walls. Sometimes referred to as "ghostmode", this hack enables sneak attacks on anyone walking by the wall, as the player inside the wall is essentially invisible."
While the fence deal isn't exactlly this it's pretty much the same because they can't be shot unless you also use the same glitch. However the windmill bug anbd the other building bugs are this same thing.
If you don't like that then call it maphack as I also posted..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maphack I don't care what it's called but it's still cheating in my book.
I did read the entire thing. Actually I read every word.
So call the windmill thing exploit, call it cheap, call it lame... but dont call it hack because no one changes code or anything. "Hack" is a term for doing right that.
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Looks like I need some Don Quixote nose art for my D-40, gonna start a windmill bombing campaign in TT.
They may be giants after all. :P
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Originally posted by CarlsBee
Quote:
The pic above is from a guy in the Rook TT spawn windmill. In this case it happens to be a rook defending...when I was on a little while ago Carlsbee was back in there. So he's almost right on the rook spawn. Exactly how do you suggest the rooks avoid him....
Well put, this is the point. If it is on my side - defending from cheaters, if it is on their side - pure cheating.
Please notice that the poor guy defending from cheaters even leaves his fat arse out, just to make sure its a fair fight.
:D
I have a picture of your "fat arse" hanging out of the same windmill...and its cheating either way IMO...
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i have just about given up on tt for now, havent been in there in a week. Its a shame the windmill bugs are being used so much. I have never used them nor did I know they existed until I read this post.
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Originally posted by Rondar
Its a shame the windmill bugs are being used so much.
Because it is all they have Rondar. They NEED bugs to land spawncamp kills and "get their name in lights".
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I BROUGHT JB SOME SUPPLIES LAST NIGHT AND HE WASNT IN ANY WINDMILL,PLUS I BACKED UP TO THE ONE BEHIND THE BISH SPAWN AND WAS KILLED AFTER 17 KILLS SO HMM
also the thing with the fence is a good glitch until someone finds the way to kill them,and there is just ask snoopy1 easy kill if done right,tt has been great as of late!!1
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I'm not going anywhere near a windmill. It would be just my luck this tour to be sitting in one, HTC would fix the bug, and I'd be stuck in there forever:lol
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Smart move since I'm sure now that the windmills around TT will be bombed regularly.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Smart move since I'm sure now that the windmills around TT will be bombed regularly.
ack-ack
Windmills are bomb magnets right now, you are almost safe from bombs in TT itself ;)
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Originally posted by humble
I have a picture of your "fat arse" hanging out of the same windmill...and its cheating either way IMO...
Aint got a fat arse.
Its not a bug and its here to stay. Just look at windmills in map, especially TT. From inside there are mall bushes around to mark your possition. A jeep will not get in to kill spawner. You do receive some hits inside from guns.
Windmills are the new tiger. :rofl I remember when a tiger was spotted, was the center of attention. Now a tiger is not worth a thing. They might perk the windmill, :aok but will not fix it. :D
You can say what you want, you just a sore looser. Same thing with jeep and tiger, same in vulching, same in camp spawn. There are endless "dirty tricks" in game if you will but that just a game.
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Originally posted by tatertot
I BROUGHT JB SOME SUPPLIES LAST NIGHT AND HE WASNT IN ANY WINDMILL
http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/1014_1177114852_film29_0000.ahf
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Originally posted by CarlsBee
Its not a bug and its here to stay.
http://forums.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=203332
Sheesh, noobs. :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by CarlsBee
Aint got a fat arse.
Its not a bug and its here to stay. Just look at windmills in map, especially TT. From inside there are mall bushes around to mark your possition. A jeep will not get in to kill spawner. You do receive some hits inside from guns.
Windmills are the new tiger. :rofl I remember when a tiger was spotted, was the center of attention. Now a tiger is not worth a thing. They might perk the windmill, :aok but will not fix it. :D
You can say what you want, you just a sore looser. Same thing with jeep and tiger, same in vulching, same in camp spawn. There are endless "dirty tricks" in game if you will but that just a game.
I'm not sure if I'm a "looser"....but no question your a loser....
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Originally posted by CarlsBee
Aint got a fat arse.
Its not a bug and its here to stay. Just look at windmills in map, especially TT. From inside there are mall bushes around to mark your possition. A jeep will not get in to kill spawner. You do receive some hits inside from guns.
Windmills are the new tiger. :rofl I remember when a tiger was spotted, was the center of attention. Now a tiger is not worth a thing. They might perk the windmill, :aok but will not fix it. :D
You can say what you want, you just a sore looser. Same thing with jeep and tiger, same in vulching, same in camp spawn. There are endless "dirty tricks" in game if you will but that just a game.
How hard would it be to "close" that door to your dweeb cave? Better
yet, fill it with water so you get stuck when you try :D
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Originally posted by humble
but no question your a loser....
That pretty much describes those that exploit bugs in the game to gain an unfair advantage.
Despite what CarlBee thinks, he is cheating pure and simple. He can cry until the cows come home that he's not but that's just to appease his own conscious and get rid of that feeling of being a skilless n00b that needs to cheat to stay competitive in the MA.
Why not just take the time and work at getting better instead of resorting to such blatant cheating? Sure, you won't get the instant gratification but in the long run you will feel better about yourself since you got the kill on your own merits and not by cheating because you were a twit and hid in a windmill.
Just sayin'
ack-ack
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Originally posted by humble
Why dont you bring your 110 to the DA sometime. I'll fly the A-20.....
I would love to. you are always a good fight.
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I'd love to, curious if the a-20 has a chance to hang in a true fight with 110....I'll shout out if I see you over the weekend.....
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Originally posted by humble
I'd love to, curious if the a-20 has a chance to hang in a true fight with 110....I'll shout out if I see you over the weekend.....
Yes it will if the pilot knows what he's doing.
ack-ack
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or PM me
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I carry bombs to TT just for this purpose. No one explodes on 200 more than some guy who thinks he's safe using an exploit, then bombed back to the tower next.
:lol
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Originally posted by CarlsBee
windmill bug is easy, look no more. You enter the windmill, have to be careful, safest way is to enter by the door :D :D :D
Be careful not to leave your arse out, once you are in they cannot see you they cannot shoot you, they can bomb you. Great spot the windmill in the spawn of the rooks at TT.
Last night had 91 kill, rooks were kind enough to get supplies out, before I let they kill me like a dumbas.
Got a film too, if you want to see it will email those who ask.
I did ask about the bug, was told that was known and would be fixed next patch. I dont give a, well do as you like, I've been bombed, vulched, shot in the arse. Its just a game, so if it is there I will use it. I pay as much as anyone so if you dont like it you pay for my subscription and tell me what I can and cannot do with it.
I used to think you were good, but now after reading this and my own video of you doing it, I can honestly call you lame. Be bombing you soon!
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APPEARS I HAVE BEEN PROVEN WRONG BY HUB MY HUMBLE
SIR
but a glitch is just a glitch i read somewere they will fix it all in the next patch
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Yeah, it's not the first bug to get exploited, and he's not the first, nor the only guy to do it. Just worked out that I had this one on film. Until the next patch, divebombing B-26s do the trick. :t
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I personally prefer lancs with 14 1000lbs.
Husky like big booms!:t
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The 26s have much better armament (fixed guns for strafing, better tail/upper), and are easier to get over the hills and into TT.
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Get over? psst you must go NOE otd then dive bomb them from 1500ft its much more fun! then when people try to dive in and kill you the whack right into the ground!:rofl
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I prefer the Stuka...one big bomb. It worked on CarlsBee tonight
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
But exploiting a bug is considered cheating in virtually all MMO's on the market. Anytime a player uses a bug to gain an unfair advantage over another player is considered Exploiting and as I just mentioned, a violation of the Terms of Service for virtually all MMO's.
How is this act an unfair advantage for the guy hiding in the windmill? By exploiting the bug that allows him to clip into the windmill prevent others from being able to hit him while he can fire at will with little or no threat of being hit by retun fire.
Had that screenshot been taken in the MMO game I work with and a GM was able to witness the violation, that player would have been given an automatic 3 day vacation from the game while we review his account for termination.
ack-ack
Exactly it's cheating like it or not..
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All hacking is cheating. Not all cheating is hacking.
The wording does matter.
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Amen Carlsbee:lol
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Originally posted by AApache
Amen Carlsbee:lol
This is why I called it "lame" not cheating and not a hack. It's unfair to catagorize all GVers as lame but as you can see there is a fundemental difference in mindset between the "old guard" which is also more core to the aviation aspects and the newer "quake oriented" element which "games the game"...either on the scoring side or the GV side or where ever they can find an advantage. unfortuneatly its simply a reflection that we as a society are getting lamer:( ........
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Originally posted by ROC
It's a shame that the title of your thread paints all GVs with such a broad brush.
I agree. But I also agree exploiting glitches is lame. Humble, GV with the right people & it's better. I had several Tigers shot out from under me today, the Tiger kicking my but knew something was fishy but it wasn't his fault, he didn't try to use a glitch his Tiger was just unkillable for some odd reason. Wasn't his fault or mine (or the other guys he killed lol), we had a little chat & ended with a good times:aok
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All in all I've had a blast GVing, but when your embarrassed by the guys on your own side you have a problem...I've literally seen 3 knights in the V23 windmill:)....if you happen to draw the "kelvar" GV thats a random part of the game....sooner or later you'll get the "golden BB magnet" as well.
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If you see your own guys doing something like that, PM an enemy guy they are blasting & mark them for a bomb run. If they like to cheat they shouldn't mind someone slapping a coat of justice onto them. That's just my opinion but there it is.
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Havent used the "windmill bug" nor will I...
If you put yourself in a position where you cannot be killed by enemy tanks due to using a known bug, but can still fire and kill them you are "exploiting" a known bug.
Knowing that it is a bug, meaning was not the intent of the programmers for it to be there, then using it to your advantage is gaining an unfair advantage over other players that was not intended.
Hence you may not be "cheating" by the technical term however your are playing the game not as intended and IMHO thata is cheating...
Havent been in TT in a while but I will smoke the first person I see in a windmill and let it be known where he is...
Camp away at TT for at least someone has a chance to up and kill you... sit in a windmill the other players have no chance and is unfair...
No im not the fun police but if you think its fun killing people in this manner think of how much fun I may have seeing you be killed..
Its your 14.95 play as you like, however I will also....