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General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Vermillion on May 15, 2000, 07:27:00 AM

Title: What One (1) WWII Era Bomber.....
Post by: Vermillion on May 15, 2000, 07:27:00 AM
Would you really like to see? I mean outside of the standard staples of WWII sims and regardless of whether it saw combat in WWII.

This is the same question Pyro asked, but lets limit this one to bombers.

After the Lancaster and Ju-88 they're working on currently, I haven't heard anything about more bombers, so lets give Pyro some ideas.

And please limit your ansers to ONE (1) Bomber !!!! Do not post your top 10.

I repeat ONE only please

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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
"Real Men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires"
Title: What One (1) WWII Era Bomber.....
Post by: JoeMud on May 15, 2000, 07:33:00 AM
B-29
Title: What One (1) WWII Era Bomber.....
Post by: Vermillion on May 15, 2000, 07:40:00 AM
Here is my choice.

With the advent of the Navy in 1.04, I think we should go with a nautical theme.

My choice:

PB4Y-2 Privateer

Yes its another American Bomber, but its quite different and never been seen before in a Sim. It was based on a highly modified B-24, built for Naval Patrol and Attack work.

 (http://www.navylib.com/ContributedPics/S.Hawley/MonCheri.jpg)

For more information look here, a really neat plane:
 http://www.history.navy.mil/branches/hist-ac/pb4y-2.pdf (http://www.history.navy.mil/branches/hist-ac/pb4y-2.pdf)

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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
"Real Men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires"
Title: What One (1) WWII Era Bomber.....
Post by: Westy on May 15, 2000, 07:41:00 AM
a "ONE"  question again? <sigh>

HE-177 for me then.

-Westy

Title: What One (1) WWII Era Bomber.....
Post by: bike killa on May 15, 2000, 07:57:00 AM
or He-111
Title: What One (1) WWII Era Bomber.....
Post by: Duckwing6 on May 15, 2000, 08:00:00 AM
HE 111
Title: What One (1) WWII Era Bomber.....
Post by: Hooligan on May 15, 2000, 08:56:00 AM
IL-2

Hooligan
Title: What One (1) WWII Era Bomber.....
Post by: Kieren on May 15, 2000, 09:00:00 AM
A-20

It fought in every theatre from start to finish, served with all the Allies, and performed stellar service. It's never been modeled before, either.  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Title: What One (1) WWII Era Bomber.....
Post by: pzvg on May 15, 2000, 09:06:00 AM
Do-17, 'cuz nobody has modeled one since the old BOB game  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)

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pzvg- "5 years and I still can't shoot"
Title: What One (1) WWII Era Bomber.....
Post by: Saintaw on May 15, 2000, 09:09:00 AM
What was that US dive bomber used in the Pacific ? Can't remember the name right now...
Title: What One (1) WWII Era Bomber.....
Post by: Beefcake on May 15, 2000, 09:12:00 AM
B-29
Title: What One (1) WWII Era Bomber.....
Post by: Kieren on May 15, 2000, 09:27:00 AM
There were really only two, Saintaw.

SBD Dauntless
Curtiss SB2C Helldiver (think that is the right prefix)
Title: What One (1) WWII Era Bomber.....
Post by: Karnak on May 15, 2000, 10:53:00 AM
H8K2 Kawanishi "Emily"

 (http://www.j-aircraft.com/walk/hiroyuki%20_takeuchi/h8k21.jpg)


 (http://www.j-aircraft.com/walk/ken_glass/h8k-3.jpg)

Sisu

[This message has been edited by Karnak (edited 05-15-2000).]
Title: What One (1) WWII Era Bomber.....
Post by: NineZ on May 15, 2000, 11:17:00 AM
Hmmm, what was the name of that british bomber that didnt have any guns?  I vote for that one! hehee

JagdNine(for jump lessons call-1800-bailout)

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 (http://www.user.shentel.net/vonz/mskt.jpg)

[This message has been edited by NineZ (edited 05-15-2000).]
Title: What One (1) WWII Era Bomber.....
Post by: Hangtime on May 15, 2000, 12:46:00 PM
There's another American medium bomber that saw action in every theater of the war. Unlike the others; it was good enuff to continue service clear thru the Vietnam war; and is right now, today; flying in active service fighting fires. No other WWII aircraft has had such a long and distinguised service life. This bird is in fact a refinement of the A20 Havoc.

The Invader.

 (http://www.military.cz/usa/air/war/bomber/a26/a26_2.jpg)

The culmination of a dream of aeronautical engineer and designer, Ed Heinemann of Douglas Aircraft, the A-26 incorporated most of the then "state of the art" technological advances, primarily the new laminar flow wing. Other innovations regarding power plants and armament caused it to be labeled by some as "the fastest and most potent and heavily armed aircraft to emerge from WW II".

With a maximum diving speed of 420 MPH and a three ton load of various armaments, (i.e., 500 lb. bombs, napalm, firebombs, rockets, etc.) a talented and dedicated crew (pilot, navigator and gunner) could cause to come to pass the very purpose of war, which is, on the most basic level - "to kill people and break things".

There's eight 50 caliber machine guns mounted in two vertical rows of four each, three in each wing outside of the engines, and two more in a rear top turret that could be remoted to his control, the pilot had available at his fingertip trigger some sixteen guns firing at the same instant. The rear gunner usually had two each in his two remote turrets.

To couch that lethal potential in very simple terms: You could put sixteen forward firing 50 caliber guns, with some five to six thousand rounds of armor piercing ammunition into a single target in about sixty seconds. It was the personification of WWII "firepower", something the USAF would not be able to duplicate till the Warthog showed up 25 years later. (that'll put the binders on the cannon-hawgs!  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)

Powered by two 2,000 horsepower Pratt & Whitney R-2800 air-cooled radial engines, its substantial bomb load and firepower (which, at one time included a 75 mm canon in the nose), the Invader could waltz away from most fighters at well beyond 350 MPH at sea level.

Just the ticket for fast attacks on AH fields; this 'buff' would be able to turn and fight rather than run and gun.

Yes; I know this one has been done (poorly) in another sim... but this plane NEEDS to be here. This one will be a welcome relief for fighter pilots that can't stand the thought of driving a 'conventional' bomber to help the cause; and it's a good transition plane for bomber pilots who profess to 'suck' in fighters.

Hang
Title: What One (1) WWII Era Bomber.....
Post by: RAM on May 15, 2000, 01:15:00 PM
Arado Ar234. It was operational, it flew a lot of sorties,and it was awesome.

It is a jet, yes, but it can be catched by a diving plane, more or less easily. It carried mroe or less light payload...so it is a bomber that wont unbalance the planeset too much...

Ar234. Ar234, Ar234!! RARARA!!  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Title: What One (1) WWII Era Bomber.....
Post by: Dead Man Flying on May 15, 2000, 01:20:00 PM
TBF Avenger.

Yes, you heard me right!   (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)

-- Todd/DMF
Title: What One (1) WWII Era Bomber.....
Post by: daddog on May 15, 2000, 01:26:00 PM
Emily
------------------------
daddog
332nd Flying Mongrels (http://www.ropescourse.org/flying.htm)
Snapshots (http://www.ropescourse.org/snapshot.htm)
 (http://www.ropescourse.org/cdaddog.jpg)
Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in his shoes.
That way, if  he gets angry, he'll be a mile away - and barefoot.
Title: What One (1) WWII Era Bomber.....
Post by: funked on May 15, 2000, 01:27:00 PM
I hate to not vote for the A-26, but it's been done.

Tupolev Tu-2.  Looks kind of like a Pe-2 but bigger. 375 mph with a 6000 lb bomb load!
Title: What One (1) WWII Era Bomber.....
Post by: Azrael on May 15, 2000, 01:50:00 PM
He 177

Az

 (http://www.link-goe.de/~m.henze/images/177k.gif)  
II.(K)/JG2
Title: What One (1) WWII Era Bomber.....
Post by: lasse on May 15, 2000, 02:18:00 PM
HE-111

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 (http://home.sol.no/~laerga/lassel.gif)  
The Wild Vikings
Commanding Officer
lasse-

[This message has been edited by lasse (edited 05-15-2000).]
Title: What One (1) WWII Era Bomber.....
Post by: lasse on May 15, 2000, 02:31:00 PM
Double post.

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 (http://home.sol.no/~laerga/lassel.gif)  
The Wild Vikings
Commanding Officer
lasse-

[This message has been edited by lasse (edited 05-15-2000).]
Title: What One (1) WWII Era Bomber.....
Post by: funked on May 15, 2000, 02:41:00 PM
Hmm Kieren that's a great point about the A-20.  That gives you a USSR, USA, or RAF medium bomber for scenarios with just one plane type.  Also it was versatile.  With variants you get a level bomber, attack (strafer) plane, and night-fighter.
Title: What One (1) WWII Era Bomber.....
Post by: Belgar- on May 15, 2000, 05:50:00 PM
Well with the Lancaster already on the drawing board very soon,

ill vote for HE-111
Title: What One (1) WWII Era Bomber.....
Post by: Rendar on May 15, 2000, 06:10:00 PM
A-26

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Rendar
Title: What One (1) WWII Era Bomber.....
Post by: Wanker on May 15, 2000, 07:22:00 PM
HE-111
Title: What One (1) WWII Era Bomber.....
Post by: Kieren on May 15, 2000, 09:59:00 PM
Right, funked. And if you stretch the imagination a teeny-weeny bit, you get a DB-7, used by the French in the very early days of the war.

It was maneuverable, not overly fast, but could do it all. I think it would be cool, anyway.  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Title: What One (1) WWII Era Bomber.....
Post by: funked on May 15, 2000, 10:10:00 PM
I think the Dutch flew those too Kieren.   (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Title: What One (1) WWII Era Bomber.....
Post by: Sundog on May 15, 2000, 11:04:00 PM
He-177 (minus all the fires, bugs , and problems the real planes encountered!)
Title: What One (1) WWII Era Bomber.....
Post by: Experten on May 15, 2000, 11:06:00 PM
A-26 Invader would rock! But When did it enter service??? You say it saw action in every theatre in ww2? I have never seen a photo of one without the post ww2 U.S. insignia...
Title: What One (1) WWII Era Bomber.....
Post by: Experten on May 15, 2000, 11:09:00 PM
Never mind, just answered my own question, It entered service in 1944 per this source http://www.seagifts.com/seagifts/26inwhissmot.html (http://www.seagifts.com/seagifts/26inwhissmot.html)
Title: What One (1) WWII Era Bomber.....
Post by: SnakeEyes on May 15, 2000, 11:47:00 PM
A-26.

Though I've got half a mind to vote for the He-111, watch it get modeled, and watch no one fly it because it is easy to kill.

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SnakeEyes
o-o-o-
=4th Fighter Group=

[This message has been edited by SnakeEyes (edited 05-15-2000).]
Title: What One (1) WWII Era Bomber.....
Post by: Hristo on May 16, 2000, 12:37:00 AM
He 177
Title: What One (1) WWII Era Bomber.....
Post by: Dnil on May 16, 2000, 12:44:00 AM
A20 is my fav but would be chewed alive here and wouldnt be used outside scenarios.  A26 fits the uber era of aces high.  But we can always hope.  I for one would only fly the a20 if made.

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Dnil
JG-2
Part time aircraft restorer. www.kingwoodcable.com/jheuer (http://www.kingwoodcable.com/jheuer)
Title: What One (1) WWII Era Bomber.....
Post by: bike killa on May 16, 2000, 03:20:00 AM
let me vote for HE-111 once again 'cuz RAF killed lotsa of  it   (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)

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bikekil
308 (Polish) Squadron RAF "City of Cracow"
 (http://www.raf303.org/308/308banner.gif)

[This message has been edited by bike killa (edited 05-16-2000).]
Title: What One (1) WWII Era Bomber.....
Post by: funked on May 16, 2000, 03:31:00 AM
Hehehe Dnil, I agree.  If the A-26B or C had been modeled in AH instead of the B-26, I'd probably be running a US 9th AF squad instead of an RAF squad.   (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Title: What One (1) WWII Era Bomber.....
Post by: firbal on May 16, 2000, 06:50:00 AM
A-26, would love to fly this mother. You just gotta love all those .50's  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)

[This message has been edited by firbal (edited 05-16-2000).]
Title: What One (1) WWII Era Bomber.....
Post by: lasse on May 16, 2000, 06:58:00 AM
I have not counted, but it looks like the HE-111 got most votes   (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
A-26 in second place, still, if anyone count the suggestions the result may be different.

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 (http://home.sol.no/~laerga/lassel.gif)  
The Wild Vikings
Commanding Officer
lasse-

[This message has been edited by lasse (edited 05-16-2000).]
Title: What One (1) WWII Era Bomber.....
Post by: Voss on May 16, 2000, 09:16:00 AM
Since I know the A26 is coming...

HE-111

There HAS to be a reason the Germans stuck with it for so long...

IF we ever start seeing fantasy aircraft, however (like the 51H, Bearcat, etc), I'll change my vote to the Horten Wing.
Title: What One (1) WWII Era Bomber.....
Post by: Karnak on May 16, 2000, 09:56:00 AM
NO MORE AMERICAN, BRITISH OR GERMAN STUFF!!!!

At least until the other nations have had their plane sets padded a bit.

Lets get some Russian, Italian and Japanese aircraft.

The Germans have the Ju88 coming and the Brits have the Lanc on the way.  The Americans already have more airframes than any other nation.  The Germans have more aircraft than any other nation.  I don't want USA vs. Germany High.

Sisu
Title: What One (1) WWII Era Bomber.....
Post by: Kieren on May 16, 2000, 09:56:00 AM
Voss-

How do you KNOW the A26 is coming?  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Title: What One (1) WWII Era Bomber.....
Post by: Kieren on May 16, 2000, 10:00:00 AM
That's not the way to play Karnak.  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)

Here is how it is done...

 
Quote
I think the Ilyushin Il-10 would be way better than any attack aircraft we have in the game.

Karnak

See?  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)

Sorry, it wasn't a question about play balance, it was about what people wanted to see...
Title: What One (1) WWII Era Bomber.....
Post by: bongo on May 16, 2000, 10:08:00 AM
  A26 a26 a26  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Title: What One (1) WWII Era Bomber.....
Post by: HABICHT on May 16, 2000, 11:01:00 AM
he 177, what else!!!!!!!!

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  (http://saintaw.tripod.com/habicht.jpg)
JG2 "Richthofen" (http://www.busprod.com/weazel2/)

[This message has been edited by HABICHT (edited 05-16-2000).]
Title: What One (1) WWII Era Bomber.....
Post by: Karnak on May 16, 2000, 11:01:00 AM
Kieren, you're right of course.  I'm just frusterated because all anybody seems to want is the same old US and German junk.  I'm just really bored by US and German aircraft.  I know they SO much better than anybody elses  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif), but we've all seen all of them before.

Sisu
Title: What One (1) WWII Era Bomber.....
Post by: Kieren on May 16, 2000, 11:06:00 AM
Hehe Karnak-

FWIW, I would love to see more Russian/Japanese/Italian bombers myself. It's just that for me the A20 is a plane that "fits" me better. It is good, but not too good. It has mult-role capability. It served many different nations. It was active the whole war. That is what I based my call on, I tried to keep the rest of the concerns out.

Yes, the Japanese selection is sure thin right now, as is Russian, Italian...  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Title: What One (1) WWII Era Bomber.....
Post by: Vermillion on May 16, 2000, 12:16:00 PM
Careful Sisu, someone might mistake you for me  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)

The Emily would be my second choice, just something stragely appealing to me in the Privateer.

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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
"Real Men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires"
Title: What One (1) WWII Era Bomber.....
Post by: Hangtime on May 16, 2000, 12:36:00 PM
LOL..

All you guys wantin an He111.. u gonna fly it?? Mission: Punch tru defenders; attack and destroy the field acks; defend yourself; attack via strafing tracks and buildings; defend yourself; egress; defend yourself; return to base. Alive.

You wanna A26; or the He111?

Is this like the typhie???.. everybody wants one; but when they find out it don't do anything better than a cannon hawg; it's left in the hanger. It'll be the same with the He111; the current Martin B26 is a far better aircraft for the missions we fly than an He111. Gettin an He111; the kawasaki's or the TBF/SBD's will be great for scenarios.. won't play well at all in the main.

I'd rather see new A/C introduced that will play well in the main where we all fly most of the time... standards for survival in that enviornment are high. The A26 Invader is the right tool for the job.

When we get an HA, well then; spin out some neato early war crud like the He111 and Vindicators and Nakijima biplanes and Brewsters; P40's and Caudrons... but not now. We need A/C to finish fillin in the main!

Hang
Title: What One (1) WWII Era Bomber.....
Post by: Karnak on May 16, 2000, 01:04:00 PM
Hangtime, the H8K2 "Emily" was reputed to be the toughest plane in the Pacific Theatre, on either side.  Of course, given how big planes can't absorb damage now, that might not mean anything.

Vermillion, my handle is Karnak.   (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Sisu is a Finnish word that translates roughly as "What must be done, will be done, regardless of the cost".  E.g. We WILL get through to the target.

Sisu
Title: What One (1) WWII Era Bomber.....
Post by: Staga on May 16, 2000, 01:29:00 PM
Very good translate Karnak  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)

Title: What One (1) WWII Era Bomber.....
Post by: Terror on May 16, 2000, 01:37:00 PM
Put another Vote on for the...

A26

16 forward firing .50's!  WOOHOO!

Terror
Title: What One (1) WWII Era Bomber.....
Post by: humble on May 16, 2000, 02:16:00 PM
Couldn't say it better hang....no other plane comes close with regard to overall impact and versitility. only point you didn't mention is that the vader had a ratio of better than 1 to 1 in air combat vs enemy fighters. If you only had 1 bomber in a tactical ww2 enviornment...this is the one

Bring on the Vader
Title: What One (1) WWII Era Bomber.....
Post by: Karnak on May 16, 2000, 02:30:00 PM
Thank you Staga.

Sisu
Title: What One (1) WWII Era Bomber.....
Post by: nonoht on May 16, 2000, 02:31:00 PM
i vote for the
HE-177
Title: What One (1) WWII Era Bomber.....
Post by: BigJoe on May 16, 2000, 02:58:00 PM
HE-177A-5 or A-7 with ability to launch the PC 1400 FX, Hs 293 or Hs 294 radio controlled glider bombs.  Now thats not asking for to much is it?
Title: What One (1) WWII Era Bomber.....
Post by: Hangtime on May 16, 2000, 03:30:00 PM
Karnak.. that big flying boat is beautiful. I'm not entirely familiar with it's load out or aramament, Tho I suspect it would fall as easy prey to most of the late war stuff in the main arena.. hell; I'd probably try to attack it with an martin marauder.  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)

As for flying boats; nothing was prettier than the big Martins and Grummans Amphibs... legends of strength and range in their own right.  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)

Salute; Sir!!

Hang


Title: What One (1) WWII Era Bomber.....
Post by: Kieren on May 16, 2000, 03:50:00 PM
How many 20mm guns did that Emily carry? I know at least one for the tail...
Title: What One (1) WWII Era Bomber.....
Post by: Vermillion on May 16, 2000, 04:47:00 PM
Kawanishi H8K "Emily"

Defensive Armament:
20mm Type 99 Cannon mounted in bow, dorsal, and tail turrets, and two beam hatches
Type 92 7.7mm MG's in ventral, port, and starboard fuselage sides and cockpit hatches

Payload:
Two 800kg Torpedoes (1,764lbs each)
or
8 250kg (551 lbs)bombs
or
16 60kg bombs or depth charges

Not bad in either respect for a Japanese Bomber, not bad at all.

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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
"Real Men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires"
Title: What One (1) WWII Era Bomber.....
Post by: Karnak on May 16, 2000, 04:52:00 PM
Vermillion, thanks for supplying that info.  I don't have access to it my self.

Hangtime, I've always been partial to the PBY Flying Catalinas.  Nice workhorses.

Sisu
Title: What One (1) WWII Era Bomber.....
Post by: pzvg on May 17, 2000, 07:07:00 AM
Ok so you have a problem with german craftsmanship (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) how about Br20?
And Hang, ever stop to consider that if folks would stop dragging in all that late war stuff that can even make a dweeb look good(no reference to you btw) and we had to use planes that were full of faults, in overcoming those faults we would really begin to seperate the wheat from the chaff
(I think i'm probably chaff, but I like high fiber)  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)

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pzvg- "5 years and I still can't shoot"
Title: What One (1) WWII Era Bomber.....
Post by: Hangtime on May 17, 2000, 02:28:00 PM
Brand loyalty?? LOL.. yah; I guess I'm a rabid flag salutin' American Patriot. No bones about it... but I let my wife buy a Volvo.. not a Buick. The Volvo was a just plain better, safer car for my wifes needs.

Hell I'd fly a 190 or Me109 if it was a better plane than my Mustang. But it ain't.

Hey; I wanna get the job done; and get out alive. You expect me to ask for or vote for something LESS than the very best to do that job, accomplish that mission??

No way.  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)

Hang