Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: EsX_Raptor on April 23, 2007, 06:24:37 PM
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Alright guys, this is my problem: I've been flying AH on a Spitfire Mk VIII ever since I read it was a good plane for dweebs. Now the thing is, I can see that I'm greatly improving in it and I find it comfortable to fly compared to other planes. But then it comes to my mind that I don't like the Spit 8 that much, I don't even like British planes, any. I'm 100% in the Luftwaffe vice and I can't get out of it. It seems like in every WWII based game I've been playing as German (Axis), I hate Allies. So I tried to fly the Bf 109K-4 because it really appealed to me (and after reading it's performance and comments on it) But sincerely, I can't do anything on it. It has a very small cockpit view (try to fly on it when your engine oil has been hit) and it has a nose gun (don't like it), it is not as maneuverable and very fast. I haven't tried any other German planes, I prefer to get some advice from you all because I always get discouraged by a lot of people, example: I say, 'wow! I like this X plane' and they go 'it's a piece of crap, gun with wings, etc, etc, etc.' so then I go 'I now like this Y plane' and the same thing happens. It is mostly because many people there are just total dweebs and hate to talk about planes they don't like so I preferibly will post this here and at least get some accurate comments on a plane I'd like to fly.
Ok,
I've heard that the FW 190 are really good planes to fly, but there are some models and I really dunno which one's mostly similar to what I've been flying; a Spit 8. I also don't like either nose mounted guns, just don't. And I thought the Bf 109K-4 was going to be my choice =[ Sigh
Don't forget you can give me encouragement to use some of the German models you find acceptable (Fighters plz =])
That's pretty much it, I hope to get any help on this..
Thank you very much!
-Raptor:aok
EDIT: Btw, I hate energy fighters too.. but love planes with high roll and maybe turn rate.
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if youre interested in the 190's and have been flying the spit8, try out the 190a5. lightest and most nimble of the 190s. 2 20mm in the wings with 2 7.9 mgs in the cowl. Don't take the 2 extra 20mm. They are the 20 MG-FF, which is an older design and has inferior ballistics to the 20 MG 151/20. The german 20mms take some getting used to but they get the job done.
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Awesome! A light and nimble German fighter =D... I will surely give a try to the FW 190A-5. So do you say I should take the 2 20mm and the 2 7.9 mgs for ballistic reasons in the other two extra 20mm... cc... I will do that =]
Thanks!
EDIT: Also, what you all think about the FW 190A-8?
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A8 has one of the largest gun packages...it is like flying a rock in a turn fight and doesnt hold E very well. i would ssay D9 or A5 for you. I would also look at the 109G14
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Thanks for the info on the FW 190A-8, I thought it could be a very slow plane due to the high speed it has at any alt. Though they say it has a good roll rate but it's mostly an E fighter (big no! for me lol)
What guns package would you reccomend for the Bf 109G-14?
Package 1
1) 20 mm MG 151/20 150 rpg
2) 13 mm MG 131 300 rpg
Package 2
1) 30 mm MK 108 65 rpg
2) 13 mm MG 131 300 rpg
I would go for the first one, but not sure.
What's good about the FW 190D-9? I see it is a good high alt fighter.
Thanks!
EDIT: Is the Bf 109K-4 a bad plane for me overall?
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The 190 series is pretty much all BnZ/ energy fighters. Yes the A5 is the most "nimble" of the bunch, but its still a nimble brick. :)
The 109's might not be as fast as the 190s, but they are much better at turning. The G2, and F4 are a lot of fun to fly, pretty nimble, climb well, accelerate very well.
The cowl mount guns may not have been your problem. If you had loaded up the 30 mm cannon on the K4 that may have been the problem. Using that is like lobbing potatoes at the planes. It take a while to learn how to shoot that gun, of course once you figure it out one hit with it can kill quite well :)
All planes have their hidden talents, and there problems. Taking the time to try them.... and I mean flying them for a few weeks to learn them.... can be fun, and help you find the plane you want to fly. I love the 38 and spend most of my time in it, but I still try other planes.
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Try the 109G-2. Still wont turn quite as well as a spit 8, but close enough to make it a close fight (espc when you get the flaps out). The G2 turns better than any 190, accelerates better, climbs better and is slightly faster on WEP (slower on MIL below 6k). The G2 is faster than the spit 8, and is closely matched on climb rate. The WEP lasts forever on the 109s, so it has an advantage over the spit there too.
The G2 would be a good plane to use as a spring-board to the K4. The G2 is better all-round slightly than the G6, the G14 is also a good option, but once WEP is used up, its the worse the 109 to be in and the frontal-view is slightly worse.
Only real short-comming is that it only has one 20mm nose-mounted cannon, where the 190s and spits have better guns. But a nose-mounted cannon doesn't suffer the same convergence problems wing-mounted guns do, so its a better technical solution. The single 20mm can in the 109G2 is more than good enough to dismiss your enemies - you may take some time to get to grips with its trajectory, ROF, and muzzle velocity as the all impact deflection shooting.
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If you get a chance to talk to Storch he's an assassin in German Iron :)
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I'd have to agree with Spatula and Fugitive on the G2. It was my bird of choice for a good six months or so and definately gives you plenty of options.
You mentioned you don't like nose-mounted guns, but I wonder if part of your problem was that you were flying the K4, which uses the 30mm. Though extremely potent, it's a real pain to learn to aim well (though some of the best sticks in this game certainly favor it).
The G2's 20mm, though lacking the same punch, has better ballistics than the 30mm, and you'll likely get more hits.
Of course, the problem with the G2 is that you'd better make those hits count. I'd generally aim for the centerline of the plane and found that I'd get many kills by knocking off the tailfeathers of various aircraft. If you can figure out how to do that on purpose, you're golden :aok
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Try the other 109s besides the K for a while. 2 tips: get really close before firing, and be careful when diving fast. 109s tend to go into "lawn dart mode" when over 480mph. Start out using the one nose-mounted 20mm at first. The 30mm cannon takes a while to get used to but it's a one shot killer against fighters. Gondolas are good against bombers but ruin your maneuverability against other fighters.
If you ever fly knights and are looking for people to fly German planes with then check channel 115 and see if anyone in II/JG11 is on. We almost exclusively fly Luftwaffe machines.
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I love the 190's. All of them. They are best at the B'n'Z game though. Here's a little rundown:
190A5 - Best turning, best climbing
190A8 - Biggest gun package, good for buff hunting
190D9 - Fastest. Period.
190F8 - Best for ground assult but a nice diversion for air-to-air.
Ta153H - One of the fastest planes in the air over 25K. Good for high alt hunting.
I always take the biggest gun package available. Keep them fast, keep turns to a minimum and use their superior roll rate to get you out of trouble.
Now, if you want something similar to the Spit VIII try the 109F4. It will turn as well as any of the Spits except maybe the Spit V. The G2 is a close second. It will go turn for turn with a Spit XVI. Speed and climb rates are good in either but you need to be careful diving as they compress sooner than the Spits and, as mentioned above, the ballistics on the German planes aren't as good as the Hispanos in the Spits so get used to aiming a little high.
Oh, and if you're flying a 109 don't take the gondolas. They just add drag and you don't need them.
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AH has a long slow learning curve... I've been playing for what.... going on 8 years now and I'm still learning. With that kind of road ahead for the dedicated player I've found that it helps to have the gameplay rooted in something outside of AH. For myself AH has followed my own historical interests. When I started I was really interested in the P-51 having read some pilot memoirs, I realized quickly that I was going to take my lumps regardless of what I flew so I spent my time trying to replicate the exploits I read about so often. After awhile I started to find myself interested more in more in the pacific theater and the carrier battles @ coral sea, midway, and the cv raids on rabual, truk, etc. So I picked up the hellcat and learned a whole new aspect to the game. Now I've gotten the USAAF bug again and have been teaching myself about the south pacific and the P-40's and P-38's that protected Port Moresby and then took the fight up to Japan's backdoor.
My long winded point being.. if you're a fan of the Luftwaffe planes I suggest you stick it out and learn one of them. It will be an adjustment from what you're used to and you'll get shot down. But find one that matches your own brand of flying and stick with it. As others have suggested if you like the flying of the spitfire, I'd start with the 109F4 or 109G2. The gunnery will come in time as you get used to the new ballistics.
Anyway just my .02
:)
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The Fugitive
I tried all of the FW 190's and they weren't as I expected; it's true they have a very, very good roll rate and acceleration, but the biggest problem is, as you say, they turn like bricks and worst of all, when turning like that they bleed E fast! I haven't tried any of the other Bf 109's yet but by what I see, I think I'm going to give a try to the G-2 and F-4. About the cowl mounted guns, yes that was exactly my problem. It's really difficult to shoot with them but they are ineed very powerful.
Spatula
I didn't know the WEP lasted forever on the 109's =O
I realize that yea, nose cannons don't have the same convergence problems as wing mounted ones do, that's an advantage right there!
Dichotomy
Storch? I'd be glad to ever see any Luftwaffe pro pilot :)
Vudak
So the G-2, that's the first plane I'm going to give a try to =] then I'll give a try to the F-4 and see what I like best!
About the 30mm, yea I'm pretty sure it was that the gun is really difficult to aim and since I'm a newbie at the game, I think I'll go for the lower caliber ones first and then when I'm pretty much used to it, I'll give a try to the K-4 once again.
The centerline! I never aimed for the centerline of a plane ever since all of these people in the MA told me that shooting at their wings was the best option and I got stuck to that principle. I'll follow your concept and do that and see what can I do! =D
TUXC
Oh yea!! I've 100% noticed that and that was one of the things that made me quit the K-4! The 109's get really UN-maneuverable as their speed increases. I've mounted the Gandolas onto my plane but dunno if they're alright.
I always fly Rooks, maybe because it is the default country but I don't know. If you say Luftwaffe pilots hang around there, then I'll surely be there! But now, (a very dweebish question) how do you turn into a channel? x__X
Bald Eagl
So aiming a little higher? Thank you very much for that comment! Now I'll have that in mind next time I go into a fight :D
I knew it, don't take the Gondolas, if they decrease maneuverability, then I won't use them.
Soulyss
Thank you very much for your comment Soulyss! I'm indeed a 100% Luftwaffe fan and will do anything to fly one of their planes. :aok
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Whoa whoa whoa whoa now don't go taking aim advice from ME of all people lol. That's just what I do. I will say, however, that it makes sense to me to aim for the centerline because you have a chance of:
1. Crippling the engine
2. Putting oil all over their windscreen
3. Wounding or Killing the pilot
4. Knocking off the tail or feathers.
Also it helps because most good pilots will do their best to provide you with the smallest shot possible whenever they cross your nose. Aiming for the wing in such a situation means missing the shot.
One more thing - 109s WEP doesn't last forever IIRC... But it does last so much longer than other planes that it might as well.
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Originally posted by EsX_Raptor
Thanks for the info on the FW 190A-8, I thought it could be a very slow plane due to the high speed it has at any alt. Though they say it has a good roll rate but it's mostly an E fighter (big no! for me lol)
I think you'll find that most of the Luftwaffe planes we have are primarily energy fighters, due to one characteristic or another. Lowspeed handling in the 190s is not well-suited to turnfighting.
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Originally posted by Engine
I think you'll find that most of the Luftwaffe planes we have are primarily energy fighters, due to one characteristic or another. Lowspeed handling in the 190s is not well-suited to turnfighting.
yea, I've noticed that already on many Luftwaffe airplanes. Even the Bf 109's seem to be a little bit of E fighters. I think I'll have to get used to that style of flying in order to be a successful Luftwaffe pilot.
EDIT: But all I know is to turn with the opponent, take some lead and shoot when close enough (trying to get on their 6 everytime) but how does a big E fighter like a FW190 fight if it can't turn well at all? That's my intrigue.
I ask that because I lately had a really, really good time with the FW 190A-5 against another E fighter, a P-38L in the training arena. It was the most literal meaning of the word, awesome, until I took it to the MA and fighted a turn fight that killed me quick... you can now imagine my dissapointment.
Oh, nvm. I found an awesome guide to the FW 190 Here! (http://www.airwarfare.com/tactics/tactics_fwtactics.htm) but I still prefer the 109 and still open to suggestions.
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I think your still looking for instant gratification ! Spend a week flying nothing but the G2, then spend a week flying nothing but an A5, then pick one. Add another plane, fly the F4 for a week, then compare it to what you learned in the others.
Flying a plane a couple times a night isn't going to teach you much. You will barely scratch the surface of what some of these planes can do if you try it that way, give it some time. You might find you can really have a good time in some of that German iron !
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But all I know is to turn with the opponent, take some lead and shoot when close enough (trying to get on their 6 everytime) but how does a big E fighter like a FW190 fight if it can't turn well at all? That's my intrigue.
BnZ. BnZ. More BnZ. Practice BnZ. Get a BnZ buddy at TA. Just BnZ
I ask that because I lately had a really, really good time with the FW 190A-5 against another E fighter, a P-38L in the training arena. It was the most literal meaning of the word, awesome, until I took it to the MA and fighted a turn fight that killed me quick... you can now imagine my dissapointment.
Wow only 4 years and you know words like that? Another reason, MA people are tough.
Oh, nvm. I found an awesome guide to the FW 190 Here! (http://www.airwarfare.com/tactics/tactics_fwtactics.htm) but I still prefer the 109 and still open to suggestions. [/QUOTE]
Off topic, Eric Hartmann may have had padded kills. :eek:
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Originally posted by EsX_Raptor
I tried all of the FW 190's... but the biggest problem is, as you say, they turn like bricks and worst of all, when turning like that they bleed E fast!
Not exactly true. Just tonight I was on the deck in a FW190A8 turn fighting with a Spit, a NIK and two LA's (although there were a couple of other friendlies there also to draw some attention). I killed the NIK and both LA's.
You can't just yank the stick in a 190. You have to finess it to keep speed. The A8 actually turns much better than people think as long as you keep it fast.
The best way to fight in it is to go in fast, keep turns to a minimum (don't be afraid to adjust course but don't just yank the stick either), extend about 1-1.5K out (if others have them turning, 3-3.5K if you're alone), make a fast wide turn and do it all over again. Also keep WEP on at all times while doing this (you've got about 10 minutes of continuous WEP).
The key is to turn at a rate that doesn't severely bleed E. If you do this you'll surprise a lot of people.
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Originally posted by BaldEagl
The key is to turn at a rate that doesn't severely bleed E. If you do this you'll surprise a lot of people.
Actually, if you extend to 3-3.5k in a FW, I don't think you'll be suprising anyone :D
kidding, kidding :)
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The Fugitive,
I will do that, give it a week or two to a certain, specific plane. Then I'll move on to the next one and notice any changes, both favorable and unfavorable and then take a decision of which plane to use according to my playing style. Thank you very much for supporting that motivation I weakly had in mind before =]
WMDnow,
I dun like BnZ :( ... I highly prefer turn fighting with good maneuverability involved in the process.
Lol, yea man xD I took English very seriously cuz I really liked it and thus devoured anything related to it =] And it indeed pays off :aok
Bald Eagl,
Im just not an E fighter :( but I certainly recognize the supberb power of the Focke Wulf =]
Vudak,
Lol that's underestimation right there xD
I'm currently testing the Bf 109G-2 :D
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If you see me online, give me a shout. I fly 109s the most. The only ones I dont touch are the E model (too slow for MA) and the G14 (I'll take the K4, thank you).
The K4, and I guess the G14, need to be flown completely different than any of the other 109s (imho), in part due to their tater gun and also because they just dont turn as well (in the sense of the classic dog chasing its tail circles fight). Great angles fighter though :)
Anyway, if you see me around, we can go to the DA or TA and practice a little. O si quieres, te subes a mi avion y vuelas de observador por un rato para que veas como los vuelo yo.
Regards,
Emu
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stick with 109s...plenty of options. I fly K4 mostly...but love G14, G2 and F4. they are awesome machines.
set convergence to 225 and dont fire till you see 200 on screen.
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Emu,
Holy crap man!!! =O It will be an honor to fly with you and let you teach me now that I finally found the impossible! Someone that freakin knows how to fly the 109 and speaks Spanish! Of course I will give you a shout, even a shooting if I ever encounter you sometime :aok
Epale de donde eres tu chico? Yo soy Venezolano y he estado volando Aces High ya por casi más de un mes =] Y si, creo que seria interesante el volar como observador para aprender como los vuelas, yo diria que así aprendo yo mas rapido :D
Ahi te veo!
killnu,
Convergence, Finally!! I have it at 325 and find it kind of difficult to shoot but hang around in there :) I'm currently flying the G-2.
EDIT: Do I set both guns to 225? Thanks!
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I set MG to 275 and cannon to 225.
forgot...do not be afraid to work throttle and do more than BnZ in any 109...including K4.
I use flaps in K4 quite often.,
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hmm ... methinks flap management in most 109's (especially the F, G's) are paramount in energy fighting in the Bf 109.
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Good to know you are interested in learning to fly the right way. With only one month under your belt, I guess you can expect to have a few frustrating days and nights to come, but in this game, I believe everyone has had to go through that. I would have to think most of us still have those "off" days.
The most forgiving 109 to fly (other than the E) would be the F4. However, like any 109, flap management is very important.
Anyway, I wont overwhelm you with information. You will quickly find that you will start learning the more you die and fly. With 109s, the one piece of advice I found very helpful when I started was to fly with 50% fuel, and drop tank. Once engaged in a fight, get rid of the drop tank. 109s with a full fuel load can be a bit unstable sometimes. As you get better, you will learn to cope with a higher weight due to fuel.
I set all my guns to 650yds in the 109s. I tried the 225 - 275 range before, and it didnt work for me. Keep in mind that what works for someone, may not work for you when it comes to gunnery and ranging. That aspect of the game is very dependent on the individual.
My game handle is Emu. Look me up. What is your game handle?
Emu
ps: Peruano. No voy a hablar mucho espanyol aqui para que la gente pueda responder con sus comentarios. A que hora sueles volar?
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If you really wanna learn how to fly a plane, then fly it. A lot. When i first decided i wanna learn to fly the p47d11 i thought it was too slow, too low a climbrate and that it had the turn-raduis of a pregnant whale. If i got lucky i could possibly land one kill once in a while, but since i had decided to learn it, I stuck with it.
Today i know better. It's a monster if ya know how to fly it. The only way to get there is by trial and error, no matter what plane you decide to learn.
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Don't be thrown off the 190's fully.
I fly almost exclusively the 190D-9 and once you get used to it you can get inside a spit 16 for at least 180º with a rudder turn. after 180º or more then you start blowing E. The advantage of the roll rate along with the rudder can be most impressive if done right. A good 190 pilot can stay behind an La7 for quite a long time in a 1-1 fight.
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1st comment is simple....every plane in the set is deadly when flown well. While there is no question that the spitfire is a wonderful plane and highly recommended as a ride for "newbie's" I believe its the worst plane to learn on by a wide margin. It combines excellent climb, acceleration and pure turn ability...
what happens is you are left with multiple "aces in the hole"...so you can fly a marginal fight and then either outturn out accelerate or outclimb (or all 3) and "win" a fight you lost...which makes transitioning to a ride which requires greater "management" difficult. The K-4 is monster and so is the D-9....but both require aggresive E flying with a touch of angles (the hardest combo to master IMO)....
I'd actually suggest the C-205 as the best "axis" plane to cut your teeth with. Good ammo load, reasonable endurance (use the EB-6 to maximize cruise) and as long as you bleed your wing tanks 1st its got good handling....109E4 will suprise alot of folks as well, even in the LWA's
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I dunno, I tried the 225 - 275 convergence style and it didn't really worked for me. So I set it to 325 - 375 which is much better and is easier for me to shoot (I think it's because I always had it around 300 and got used to it)
I tried the 50% fuel and droptanks, and I liked it although I'm used to traveling long distances to get to the enemy and I sometimes run out of fuel, or get close to, when I drop the tank whenever engaged in a fight, keep looking for another one, and try to go back. But still is good =]
Trial and error is indeed the best way to learn a plane and I do believe every plane can be deadly when flown right =]
Btw, I have an off topic question here: How do cowl mounted guns shoot through propellers without hitting them? My guess is that they're synchronized with the rotation of the propellers, but not sure.
Yo vuelo cuando tengo tiempo xD casi nunca tengo una hora especifica pero lo suelo hacer como a las 5:00 pm en hora de aqui, de Venezuela o aveces hasta las 10:00 pm
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Originally posted by EsX_Raptor
Btw, I have an off topic question here: How do cowl mounted guns shoot through propellers without hitting them? My guess is that they're synchronized with the rotation of the propellers, but not sure.
You are correct.
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Originally posted by EsX_Raptor
Btw, I have an off topic question here: How do cowl mounted guns shoot through propellers without hitting them? My guess is that they're synchronized with the rotation of the propellers, but not sure.
Yup, that's it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interrupter_gear
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Awesome I knew it! :D :D
Nice link too! =D
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too bad i couldnt say it first, waa. lol i influenced the signature!!!