Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: halcyon on April 24, 2007, 06:41:17 PM

Title: Meh Poll: To spy or not to spy?
Post by: halcyon on April 24, 2007, 06:41:17 PM
(***Poll below***)

Something happened the other day that got my curiousity going.
The question is, do you think it's wrong to spy?

What do I mean?
Here's what happened. I was flying (on Knights) defending a port. We lost it despite a furied defense, but before we did someone of lower rank then me sent the CV off to hide (personally I don't agree with this but that's not the focus here).

Another country (I won't name which one) owned the port now, but didn't have the CV since it was still ours. A player announced over the country channel he was switching sides (to the side that just took the port....coincidentally). About 30 minutes later a red dot appears inside the CVs radar.
I jumped in a plane to try and intercept, but due to a rudder issue had to delay my launch. Unfortunately I was delayed too late. I started up my prop when the bombs hit the CV, sinking it and killing me.

Who was the bomber? The same player that announced he was switching sides.

Personally I think this is unsportsmanlike in every faucet possibly conceived, and also cheap, lame, and pathetic to name a few adjectives off the top of my head.
I want to know what everyone else thinks about it. (other examples of spying could include giving coords on ch:200 for CVs, or giving information to the target country about pending missions that are posted)

I realize some people might try to roleplay it, explaining how WWII had it's spies. I say blah. It's a game. Stick to the mechanics and don't make up your own.

(http://www.yourfreepoll.com/votebutton.gif) (http://www.yourfreepoll.com/wizrumkksp.html)

(http://www.yourfreepoll.com/images/wizrumkk.gif) (http://www.yourfreepoll.com/wizrumkksp.html)
Title: Meh Poll: To spy or not to spy?
Post by: Brenjen on April 24, 2007, 06:49:44 PM
The location of the CV being directly reported is just low down imo

 The only legitimate "spying" would be if some guys on your side are cheating & you know it. I can go along with snitching them out to the enemy to maybe make a point but that's the only time.

 Only my opinion though.
Title: Meh Poll: To spy or not to spy?
Post by: cav58d on April 24, 2007, 06:58:27 PM
Whats cheap, low, dirty and unsportsman about it is all a player has to do is switch country's, and he is provided with all of that countrys information with zero effort.
Title: Meh Poll: To spy or not to spy?
Post by: hyena426 on April 24, 2007, 07:02:34 PM
i dont care for the spying much...i know it happend in real war..but in real war we didnt have a map that instantly told us were the fleets and armies are.

i think spying in this game is allmost as bad as getting kills for padding a dif account...i think its some of the lowest parts of this game...sence there not good anuff to look for a cv..or work for it...they just want it easy...but no way to stop it..long as we can switch or have multiple accounts..this will never stop.. alot of people cant seem to play fair..hehe
Title: Meh Poll: To spy or not to spy?
Post by: thndregg on April 24, 2007, 07:05:31 PM
This just goes to show the true character of those that would do such a thing. Not that it matters in an anonymous hide-behind-the-monitor online society. Sad.
Title: Meh Poll: To spy or not to spy?
Post by: lagger86 on April 24, 2007, 07:06:48 PM
Yeah that's pretty lame. Some people have no pride. Spying is weak, but there will always be those that feel it's their duty to be complete dweebs and use every "trick" in the book to somehow feel like they accomplish something.
Title: Meh Poll: To spy or not to spy?
Post by: Major Biggles on April 24, 2007, 07:26:55 PM
yep, pretty low. what a dweeb
Title: Meh Poll: To spy or not to spy?
Post by: SuperDud on April 24, 2007, 07:31:46 PM
Who cares.


PS: It was me.
Title: Meh Poll: To spy or not to spy?
Post by: loser on April 24, 2007, 07:33:27 PM
I think what you wanted was "I honestly couldn't care less."
Title: Meh Poll: To spy or not to spy?
Post by: pluck on April 24, 2007, 07:34:04 PM
while i don't really care about spying myself, i can see where it may frustrate others.  At the same time, hiding a CV (to me anyway) seems  lame as well.  I would imagine in game events in which spies influence the outcome in some way benefit the same country as many times as it may hinder it.  just a guess, but in AH what comes around goes around.....pretty much a constant.

Also some take this game more serious than others, not putting anyone down, just something to keep in perspective before getting fired up:)


I must be in a good mood tonight
Title: Meh Poll: To spy or not to spy?
Post by: Husky01 on April 24, 2007, 07:46:32 PM
:rofl  Yes it wrong but how do you stop it?
Title: Meh Poll: To spy or not to spy?
Post by: 2fly on April 24, 2007, 07:55:31 PM
Of course it is lame.  Such individuals have always and will always exist.  What sense of accomplishment they get in succedding via cheating is beyond me.  I guess "harming" others in any way they can is some sort of cheap thrill for them.  A honest victory against true opposition yields a far greater sense of accomplishment imho.  

But alas in this type of game there is no way to prevent it.  In your anecdote the only thing that surprises me is that the guy bothered to announce he was switching.  In my experience the majority never do.

The only positive is that theese types of people tend to become bored quickly and move on to other games.  (Could it be that lack of accomplisment mentioned above?  hmmm...We wonders.  Yes my precious we wonders)
Title: Meh Poll: To spy or not to spy?
Post by: Vudak on April 24, 2007, 08:01:27 PM
If you're going to be so lame as to hide a CV, you deserve to run into someone so lame as to announce where it is.

Simple case of quid pro quo.
Title: Re: Meh Poll: To spy or not to spy?
Post by: Ack-Ack on April 24, 2007, 08:15:40 PM
Quote
Originally posted by halcyon
(***Poll below***)

Something happened the other day that got my curiousity going.
The question is, do you think it's wrong to spy?

What do I mean?
Here's what happened. I was flying (on Knights) defending a port. We lost it despite a furied defense, but before we did someone of lower rank then me sent the CV off to hide (personally I don't agree with this but that's not the focus here).

Another country (I won't name which one) owned the port now, but didn't have the CV since it was still ours. A player announced over the country channel he was switching sides (to the side that just took the port....coincidentally). About 30 minutes later a red dot appears inside the CVs radar.
I jumped in a plane to try and intercept, but due to a rudder issue had to delay my launch. Unfortunately I was delayed too late. I started up my prop when the bombs hit the CV, sinking it and killing me.

Who was the bomber? The same player that announced he was switching sides.

Personally I think this is unsportsmanlike in every faucet possibly conceived, and also cheap, lame, and pathetic to name a few adjectives off the top of my head.
I want to know what everyone else thinks about it. (other examples of spying could include giving coords on ch:200 for CVs, or giving information to the target country about pending missions that are posted)

I realize some people might try to roleplay it, explaining how WWII had it's spies. I say blah. It's a game. Stick to the mechanics and don't make up your own.



Didn't Zazen do this once?


ack-ack
Title: Meh Poll: To spy or not to spy?
Post by: Stang on April 24, 2007, 08:38:09 PM
Totally different situation when he did AKAK.  An exploit was being employed by the other side in that one.
Title: Meh Poll: To spy or not to spy?
Post by: Guppy35 on April 24, 2007, 09:34:37 PM
No one is dying, planes are free, carriers respawn, anyone taking it that serious needs help anyway....etc :)
Title: Meh Poll: To spy or not to spy?
Post by: Atoon on April 24, 2007, 10:08:10 PM
ALMOST as lame as Vets that fly la7s & spit16s, but not quite.
Title: Meh Poll: To spy or not to spy?
Post by: thndregg on April 24, 2007, 10:24:07 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Guppy35
No one is dying, planes are free, carriers respawn, anyone taking it that serious needs help anyway....etc :)


Does that mean we can spy/cheat on board and card games and the like, too? Just because it's online does not mean you throw away fair play and good sportsmanship. A game is a game, and how you decide to play tells a lot about how you take winning or losing.
Title: Meh Poll: To spy or not to spy?
Post by: Ack-Ack on April 24, 2007, 10:29:46 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Atoon
ALMOST as lame as Vets that fly la7s & spit16s, but not quite.



Or just as lame as some dweeb labeling a player by what they fly?


ack-ack
Title: Meh Poll: To spy or not to spy?
Post by: 5PointOh on April 24, 2007, 10:37:09 PM
Quote
Originally posted by thndregg
Does that mean we can spy/cheat on board and card games and the like, too? Just because it's online does not mean you throw away fair play and good sportsmanship. A game is a game, and how you decide to play tells a lot about how you take winning or losing.


Lately I have have been discouraged at the INTEGRITY of some of the players in the game.  I know "Its my 14.95 (16.03 for TX), and I'll play how I want to" theroy.  But wow hiding in windmills, switching sides to find missions, and CV locations.  Why is it so hard to play fair anymore?  I really like this virtual array of planes tanks and most of the people who play. I really wish you had to email HTC to switch sides after the intial 2 weeks.  Yes its a little more work for HTC, but it might control the spying parties throughout the community.  I all that play fair with integrity and morals.
Title: Meh Poll: To spy or not to spy?
Post by: Mr No Name on April 24, 2007, 10:54:25 PM
Quote
Originally posted by 5PointOh
Lately I have have been discouraged at the INTEGRITY of some of the players in the game.  I know "Its my 14.95 (16.03 for TX), and I'll play how I want to" theroy.  But wow hiding in windmills, switching sides to find missions, and CV locations.  Why is it so hard to play fair anymore?  I really like this virtual array of planes tanks and most of the people who play. I really wish you had to email HTC to switch sides after the intial 2 weeks.  Yes its a little more work for HTC, but it might control the spying parties throughout the community.  I all that play fair with integrity and morals.


Since the arena split switching sides is how the company chooses to side balance... (Kinda like wagging the dog)  I am a chesspiece loyalist though and so is my squad.
Title: Meh Poll: To spy or not to spy?
Post by: 5PointOh on April 24, 2007, 10:58:11 PM
Hmm I am loyal to the Bish and plan to stay that way unless something major happen.  Good luck to all!
Title: Meh Poll: To spy or not to spy?
Post by: Lunger on April 24, 2007, 11:41:54 PM
The most effective way to put a stop to this is to impose a half hour time penalty on the player changing countries. This would allow the battlefield to change enough that the individual padding his score could not severly impact the other country.
Title: Re: Meh Poll: To spy or not to spy?
Post by: Masherbrum on April 25, 2007, 06:30:27 AM
Quote
Originally posted by halcyon
wall of text


I can understand your fervor on the subject however, why lump "mission spying" in this poll?    

I voted No.   Why?   Simply put, the ONLY time I may (if I feel like it), is if something like TT is deliberately being attacked or pending base grabs are on the horizon, in TT.   There is no need to take these bases.   Keep in mind, I DO NOT switch countries "to spy".

Hiding CV's is another story, it is lame.   You wouldn't have liked the "Zazen CV Issue".   Even though Zazen did the right thing at the time.   This is why I allow the "Desktop Admirals" to do their own thing.  

Most of the time I just log in, fly, drive, and have fun.   But if someone is gonna try and ruin 100+ people's fun in TT, I'm gonna make life miserable for that one person "organizing the fun killing".  

Over a year ago the Bish had taken FT on the Donut Map.    I logged onto hear a very pissed off Lazer in the tower griping that we needed FT back.   I immediately told him "to hold on" and quickly rallied about 100+ Knights and about 100+ Rooks to take them back.    It took us about 4 hours but we got our base back, and then escorted the Knight goons to base.   There was not a single rook/Knight shot down, and I had to tell about 80+ rooks to "NOT CAPTURE OR DROP HANGERS ON BISH".   But, I will tell you this, the Bish probably had a record number of vultches done to them in about a 1/2 hour.   They deserved it though.  

I spied to accomplish our goal as did the Knight I was talking too.   Again, I made life miserable for "fun killers".
Title: Meh Poll: To spy or not to spy?
Post by: Atoon on April 25, 2007, 10:13:31 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Or just as lame as some dweeb labeling a player by what they fly?


ack-ack


But definately NOT as lame as an alt monkey cherry picker callin somone else a dweeb.
Title: Meh Poll: To spy or not to spy?
Post by: Shuffler on April 25, 2007, 10:30:34 AM
Just shows poor parenting IMHO. He never learned class or was never schooled in self pride or class.

A Person's actions are all we have to go by when forming an opinion of that person's family and up-bringing.
Title: Meh Poll: To spy or not to spy?
Post by: Carwash on April 25, 2007, 11:07:16 AM
I once was told that character was what you did when no one was looking.  I guess that in our online universe, character is what you do when no one can catch you.  Of course spying is lame, just as many other activities mentioned in this thread are lame.  

The gratifying thing is that the spys and cheats represent a small percentage of the players.   Most seem to be honorable and enjoy a good game.  It is these people (along with HTC) that make the game worth playing.
Title: Meh Poll: To spy or not to spy?
Post by: croduh on April 25, 2007, 11:08:43 AM
:noid
Title: Meh Poll: To spy or not to spy?
Post by: Masherbrum on April 25, 2007, 12:02:52 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Carwash
I once was told that character was what you did when no one was looking.  I guess that in our online universe, character is what you do when no one can catch you.  Of course spying is lame, just as many other activities mentioned in this thread are lame.  

The gratifying thing is that the spys and cheats represent a small percentage of the players.   Most seem to be honorable and enjoy a good game.  It is these people (along with HTC) that make the game worth playing.


I'm very honorable, but when a select few cross the line, I refuse to turn the other way.
Title: Meh Poll: To spy or not to spy?
Post by: SKurj on April 25, 2007, 12:15:18 PM
You wanna hide the CV instead of actually actively using it against your opponents, well you had better be prepared to defend it.  

I do not support mission spying, but I got no respect for cv hiders no matter whose side you are on.
Title: Meh Poll: To spy or not to spy?
Post by: steely1 on April 25, 2007, 01:48:36 PM
Spying is lame no matter what justification you give it.

There is nothing better than a few pilots upping and driving back a horde or breaking up a base vulch with just a couple of LALAs .
After all I don’t really die I just get a shiny new airplane and the enemy that I shoot down dose as well. (but he might have to fly for 5 or 6 min to get back to the action)  

I believe that the best way to stop the spying is to allow people to switch countries but they must switch arenas at the same time.
This at least would be a deterrent for this behavior.

I prefer to fly one country even though the ENY thing gets annoying at times.
That’s just the way I like to play the game.      

:noid
Title: Meh Poll: To spy or not to spy?
Post by: BaldEagl on April 25, 2007, 02:22:58 PM
Do you really have to ask?
Title: Meh Poll: To spy or not to spy?
Post by: republic on April 25, 2007, 02:57:43 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Lunger
The most effective way to put a stop to this is to impose a half hour time penalty on the player changing countries.


Show's how shifty (or senile) I am, I thought we still had the 12 hour (or however long) limit after switching countries...  You mean I could be bouncing around all willy nilly?

:lol
Title: Meh Poll: To spy or not to spy?
Post by: hubsonfire on April 25, 2007, 03:07:34 PM
One hour time limit for switching currently. Trying to eliminate or limit country switching is not going to prevent some sort of exchange of information. Be it through phone calls, IM, email, PMs, second accounts, etc, people have always done this kind of thing, and likely always will.
Title: Meh Poll: To spy or not to spy?
Post by: halcyon on April 25, 2007, 11:21:59 PM
Quote
Originally posted by SKurj
You wanna hide the CV instead of actually actively using it against your opponents, well you had better be prepared to defend it.  

I do not support mission spying, but I got no respect for cv hiders no matter whose side you are on.


Do you mean did I hide the CV myself?
Because I didn't, I said someone else did it. I oppose hiding CVs.
Title: Switch setting
Post by: SPIKER on April 26, 2007, 07:54:59 AM
When changing countries, you can not go to the same map of 60 Minutes.

Or when you change countries you have to accept that you can't get connected for 15,30 or 60 min.


Spiker
Title: Meh Poll: To spy or not to spy?
Post by: SKurj on April 26, 2007, 08:01:17 AM
Sorry Halcyon was not directed at you just to CV hiders in general.
Title: Re: Switch setting
Post by: Masherbrum on April 26, 2007, 08:17:56 AM
Quote
Originally posted by SPIKER
When changing countries, you can not go to the same map of 60 Minutes.

Or when you change countries you have to accept that you can't get connected for 15,30 or 60 min.


Spiker


Disagree.   I sometimes log in to an Arena and "the knights will be 50 down from the other two countries".   I'll switch and then an hour or two later, the Knights will be the large stack, and I'll switch back to the short stack.

Some of us actually enjoy the fight, instead of the "quantity doesn't mean quality" type whorde mongering.    Looking at the Map involves no "Tactical Strategy" at all.   Only common sense is needed to see where an inbound mission can be inbound too.
Title: Meh Poll: To spy or not to spy?
Post by: halcyon on April 27, 2007, 07:45:07 PM
Quote
Originally posted by SKurj
Sorry Halcyon was not directed at you just to CV hiders in general.


Yeah figured, just wasn't sure. :)
Title: Meh Poll: To spy or not to spy?
Post by: storch on April 27, 2007, 08:03:21 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Guppy35
No one is dying, planes are free, carriers respawn, anyone taking it that serious needs help anyway....etc :)
bingo.  it's game lads, just a game.  get mad about important stuff like 20k taco pickers who think they're all that and a bag of doritos.
Title: Meh Poll: To spy or not to spy?
Post by: richard_rd on April 28, 2007, 05:43:59 AM
One of the problems with spying is people take advantage of the 2 week free account tryouts.  All you need to do is use a proxy server that changes your ip address and you can keep getting 2 week free accounts forever.  

      It would not stop the spying completely, But at least it would make the 2 account spies pay for their spying account.

     I wish HTC would stop offering the two week free accounts.  I realize that HTC draws more potential customers to the game by offering the 2 week free account trials, but I also wonder how much money HTC is loosing by people that abuse the system for spying and also abuse the system by constantly getting and using trial accounts as their only account (i.e.  playing for 2 years and never paying a penny)!!!

     At a mininum HTC should change the 2 week free accounts to require giving credit card info, but don't charge the account for 15 days. That way at least HTC would have an audit trail for people that abuse the system. Currently no credit card info is required until your trial ends in 2 weeks, so people can abuse the system by changing their IP address with a proxy server and just get a new trial account at the end of the 2 weeks.
Title: Meh Poll: To spy or not to spy?
Post by: mooster on April 28, 2007, 06:49:45 AM
spy,s should be placed against the wall and shot! then nursed back to health so they can be placed against the wall and be shot again!
Title: Meh Poll: To spy or not to spy?
Post by: Morpheus on April 28, 2007, 09:47:40 AM
someone hides my CV on the side im playing on, if it isn't sunk within a day, half day or so... i will switch sides and make sure someone sinks it. That's not spying, that's gamey game play. deal with it.  but then again, so is hiding the CV's in the first place. As for all your mishuns, who cares.
Title: Meh Poll: To spy or not to spy?
Post by: Lye-El on April 28, 2007, 10:10:35 AM
Quote
Originally posted by richard_rd

     
     At a mininum HTC should change the 2 week free accounts to require giving credit card info, but don't charge the account for 15 days. That way at least HTC would have an audit trail for people that abuse the system. Currently no credit card info is required until your trial ends in 2 weeks, so people can abuse the system by changing their IP address with a proxy server and just get a new trial account at the end of the 2 weeks.


I hate it when I have to divulge credit card info for something I wish to try. (And generally pass) Seems like they are hoping you forget they have your number so they can charge you and it's one more place that has your credit card number. For all you know it may be some fly by night company if you have no previous knowledge of it.
Title: Meh Poll: To spy or not to spy?
Post by: halcyon on May 02, 2007, 09:12:37 PM
Gave this a few days to muster.

Looks like 69% say it is lame.
Yay. A majority agrees with me!

I feel so wubbed. :cool: