Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Custom Skins => Topic started by: Krusty on April 24, 2007, 08:10:37 PM
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Am doing this one for the 68 FS boys here in AH.
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Still very rough! Just a preview, really. I've got some basic colors laid out and I need to rework some panel lines here and there and fill in a few areas I haven't done yet. Also need to locate the spinner.
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I know I've got a lot of work to do. I'm trying to get a few things aligned, and I think I have for the moment. I still need to add the white stripe to the tail (needed to get the ones on the stabs first, so I could align the one on the tail to them! ... or vice versa).
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Interesting Krusty, I was (in the to do list now) doing one with exact same white markings but for the RNZAF.
Is that a SW Pacific squadron you're doing??
JR
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I believe it is! Similar markings to the 44 FS, as they took over the 68FS P-40s in early '43.
This will be "208" but that's not on the nose yet. Will also have shark's mouth.
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So far it looks very good
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i dont think the spinner can be skined if i am correct, think it just has to stay that colour till they remake the skin
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It's looking good Krusty
FTJR, after the 68th got P-38s, some of their P-40s were transferred to the RNZAF (like this (http://www.warbirdregistry.org/p40registry/p40-4125109.html) one). So, perhaps the white stripes on yours were just left on after the plane was transferred, or if it was repainted, they just decided to keep the same paint scheme.
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68Dougal,
Well you made me get up and grab the book off the shelf :)
All the pictures I have show different RNZAF squadrons with the white markings.
Say's in aid of identification. I presume that it was an Allied directive. So I guess the transferred planes just saved them painting the id marks on.
Cheers.
JR.
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I hate to bring the bad news, but .... I already finished it and submitted it:t
JK Good work, keep it going.
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"NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOO!"
P.S. Not funny!! :furious
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You know what? I don't think the nose is un-skinnable! Look at the screenshots: They've got a 100% opacity panel line running through the spinner! That means it's on the bitmap somewhere. I'm sure I can find it, I just didn't think about it at the time.
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don't forget to thank me for the rivet and panel lines :D
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Indeed!
To those that can't spot it (quite easily) this is the old template available on ah-skins. I found I had a copy of it in one of my archives. Back when I just started skinning I downloaded a few to see how things went together on a few different planes.
Template courtesy of: Citabria!
Actually, the template didn't save me *that* much time, as I've gotten pretty fast at redrawing my own panel lines, but considering how pressed I am in general these days, any boost helps.
Many thanks, Cit, for uploading it in the first place.
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I know the template was Fester's, but I really only used the panel lines and rivets (and some other minutae). I've put a LOT of effort into this, and I hope it shows.
It's still not done. I need weathering and stains, etc. I made so much progress in the past 2 days (after 6 months of being too busy) that I had to take some screenshots.
Oh, and I'm completely guessing on the tail code placement. If it's misplaced or supposed to be under the stripe let me know!
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/858_1202279668_p40e_68_8.jpg)
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/858_1202279695_p40e_68_9.jpg)
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/858_1202279713_p40e_68_10.jpg)
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/858_1202279752_p40e_68_11.jpg)
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/858_1202279767_p40e_68_12.jpg)
I based the mouth off of this reference. No eyes. However, it almost looks as if the spinner might be red. There's a profile on the scn.ru site that shows one with a red prop, it might be this.
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/858_1202279793_68thfsthumb_small.jpg)
Now that I think about it, I wonder if I am mixing my references... One shows stripes on the tail but I can't see in the picture if that's right or not. 208 had no stripes, but a decal sheet shows 209 as having them.
P.S. I goofed up. The pic wasn't 209, as 209's got eyes on it. I really liked the no-eyes look though! Darn!
EDIT: Anybody know where the prop blades are? I want to redo them!
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For what it's worth thats a Merlin engined F model, not an Allison engined E like AH has.
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Looks sweet Krusty!
Good job on getting her done.
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Amazing skin Krusty!
:aok :aok :aok
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Dan,
I've got a few references that show 209 and 208, one or two says -E, one or two says -F.
It's close enough for me, but if you have any similar-looking references for a de-facto -E model, I'm willing to think about redoing it to those markings.
I've been scrounging references from the 'Net on this one. That may be why I've probably mixed a few of 'em. I think I need to go back and add eyes if I want to do 209 (too bad, IMO it looked better without 'em).
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HAH... I thought something was wrong! I forgot to include one of 'em. I even uploaded it at the same time.
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/858_1202279607_p40e_68_7.jpg)
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Originally posted by Krusty
Dan,
I've got a few references that show 209 and 208, one or two says -E, one or two says -F.
It's close enough for me, but if you have any similar-looking references for a de-facto -E model, I'm willing to think about redoing it to those markings.
I've been scrounging references from the 'Net on this one. That may be why I've probably mixed a few of 'em. I think I need to go back and add eyes if I want to do 209 (too bad, IMO it looked better without 'em).
All you need to see is whether there is an intake on the top of the engine cowling or not. Merlin P40s don't have the intake on top. Allison engined birds do.
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Thanks! I never thought of that!
I have a profile for 208, then, that has the intake on top. Not a very good quality one, and it lacks the stripes on the tail... hrm..
I have to wait til I'm home and review the refs at my disposal, but thanks for the tip!
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Bah, stupid picturehangar :mad:
Those pics again.
(http://www.nakatomitower.com/68th/p40e_68_7.jpg)
(http://www.nakatomitower.com/68th/p40e_68_8.jpg)
(http://www.nakatomitower.com/68th/p40e_68_9.jpg)
(http://www.nakatomitower.com/68th/p40e_68_10.jpg)
(http://www.nakatomitower.com/68th/p40e_68_11.jpg)
(http://www.nakatomitower.com/68th/p40e_68_12.jpg)
(http://www.nakatomitower.com/68th/68thFSthumb_small.jpg)
I think I'm just going to skin the -F, as there aren't many references I can find about 68th FS -Es from this relative time frame.
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Interesting scheme, I like it alot. Gonna look great when you add the dirt and weathering.
Regarding this pic below, is it possible to add a spray-painted edge between colors on upper and lower wings? It would add alot to the realism and authenticity; I don't think they taped that edge when painting on the OD green. Just a thought. I'll definitely be taking this ship for a spin when its ready.
(http://www.nakatomitower.com/68th/p40e_68_7.jpg)
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Wow! I like those stripes on the wing, verry nice choice right there Krusty!
I'm waiting for screenshots when she's done before i can decide ofcourse :p.
But again the paint itself is a really good choice In my opinion. And as far as i love the P51 by its looks, the P40 has the #2 spot, especially in skins like these.
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Oboe, most likely is doable. Thanks for the suggestion (I'd have overlooked it)
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LARGE IMAGE ALERT
It turns out I can't do that Oboe. The skin stretches there, rather than wrapping (like I thought). It's all 1 pixel that stretches all around the leading edge, and you just can't get a nice feathered demarcation.
I tried! :(
Got some weathering done.
(http://www.nakatomitower.com/68th/p40e_68_13.jpg)
(http://www.nakatomitower.com/68th/p40e_68_14.jpg)
(http://www.nakatomitower.com/68th/p40e_68_15.jpg)
(http://www.nakatomitower.com/68th/p40e_68_16.jpg)
(http://www.nakatomitower.com/68th/p40e_68_17.jpg)
There are a few things I've cleaned up since taking these screens.
I need a good image of a P-40 data plate. I have a partial, but I need to retype it all.
Also, it doesn't seem there are many stencils/text markings on P-40s, eh? To me looks a little bare, but if that's the way they were I'll live with it!
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Krusty, have you checked to see if it's OK to skin a Merlin P40F on to the Allison P40E of Aces High?
That's definately a Merlin bird. BTW it's a 44th Fighter Squadron P40F being flown by pilot Kermit Tyler in January 1943
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CC Guppy, I knew it was merlin for a while now, but from my reading up on the matter there was little performance difference for pilots. It had different power curves, but overall similar performance.
Besides, I've seen a skin or two that are already in-game which are merlin-powered.
I figured I'd make the argument that it's a P-40F, very similar to an E but with a different engine, which had the same overall performance and capabilities as the E. I'm pretty sure HTC will accept it.
EDIT: I'm sure it was 68th FS. I have to check my files at home (at work right now) but there was some close connection between 68th FS and 44th FS.
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From 68Dougal:
"EDIT: After some further research, it seems that in Jan. 1943 the 44th FS 18th FG took over the P-40s of the 68th FS. I may have found a picture of the above aircraft, but taken after the 44th took over. It might be of some use."
There are a few photos of "208" and other planes after the 44th took possession. Here's another (listed as 44th)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n107/68Dougal/P-40Fs44thFS1943.jpg)
Here's the same plane under 68th FS, Guadalcanal, Jan 1943.
(http://nakatomitower.com/68th/68thFSthumb_small.jpg)
(cropped from this: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v730/fugari/68thFSthumb.jpg )
This also shows it as a 68th FS bird:
http://wp.scn.ru/en/ww2/f/375/3/4
I did some checking to be sure about the squadron affiliation, because of the link between the two units. I'm sure it's 68th FS.
Do you by any chance have a clear reference to a P-40 dataplate? I've got the aft half of one in a photo, but I don't know what the rest says.
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The Data block appears rarely from what I can see. Seems like it is either overpainted or the exhast stains cover it.
It's three lines from the ones I did see. On Robert Scott's P40 it reads:
U.S. ARMY P40 K-1
AIRCRAFT SERIAL NO. 42-4356
CREW WEIGHT 180 LBS
Not nearly as extensive as a P51 for example.
U.S. ARMY P51C-10NT
SERIAL NO. AAF 43-106730
CREW WEIGHT 200 LBS.
SERVICE THIS AIRPLANE WITH
GRADE 100/130 FUEL. IF NOT
AVAILALABLE T.O. 06-5-1 WILL BE
CONSULTED FOR EMERGENCY ACTION
SUITABLE FOR AROMATIC FUEL
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Guppy, would you say leaving it off is more representative? What about around the fuel cap? Any markings there? I've seen a few non-original references that show the gas cap as red, is that correct?
P.S. I have a partial plate in a photo off a P-40B that looks more like your p-51 plate. It goes on about 100 octane and some other things I can't read.
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Going through a number of group histories as well as a book specifically on the P40, I saw exactly 3 photos that showed that three line data block. One had kill markings covering part of it.
I think it's more representative to have it off based on the photo evidence
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Many thanks!
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I ordered a couple of P-40 books along with my Stuka books, and this is what I could find for you:
"American Volunteer Group Colours and Markings," Terrill Clements, Osprey Aircraft of the Aces #41, Osprey Publisyhing, 2001
and
"P-40 Warhawk Aces of the Pacific," Carl Molesworth, Osprey Aircraft of the Aces #55, Osprey Publishing, 2003
The AVG book was obviously not very helpful for what you want.
The other one had some possibly useful stuff:
On page 30, it has a data plate attributed to 41-36171, "White 51" of 8th FS/49th FG that reads
U.S. ARMY P 40-E-1
AIR CORPS SERIAL NO.A.C.41-36171
CREW WEIGHT 200 LBS.
The "A.C.41-36171" is in a silghtly lighter in color
There is a plate (not a photo) of White 209 that identifies the aircraft as P-40F-15 41-19831 of 2Lt Lucien B Shuler, 68th FS/347th FG, Guadalcanal, April 1943. The plate omits the fuselage stripe forward of the canopy, has no intake on top of the nose (of course), does have eyes, and also has the fuel cap in red. There is also something stenciled just behind the aft fuselage stripe in front of the upper corner of the large access panel, but it is unreadable.
I looked at all of the photographs, and nowhere could I identify the stenciling in front of the access panel, a red fuel cap, nor stencil markings around the fuel cap. There is a picture on page 72 of a P-40N-5 where stenciling around the fuel cap is clearly visible and the fuel cap is a different color, but it is a tan 45th FS bird. I can not see any other stencil markings except an occasional pilot's name and/or killboard.
On page 61 there is a photograph of 2 P-40F's at Guadalcanal, one is a 44th FG bird (White 102, 41-14825) and the other a 68th FS bird (41-14102) from early 1942. Both have the forward fusealge stripe. Both pilots from the photo were KIA on 13 Feb 1943, Capt Al Johnson and 1Lt Ray Morrissey.
On page 67 is a photo of White 208. Its caption reads: 1Lt L B 'Bob" Shuler of the 68th FS poses his P-40F-15 41-19831 'White 208' for a nice flying shot in the spring of 1943 before his transfer to the 44th FS. Pilots and aircraft of the 44th, 68th and 70th FS on Guadalcanal often intermingled on missions during this period before the Warhawks were concentrated in the 44th FS."
Notice that both the plate for White 209 and the photo for White 208 are identified as 41-19831.
So, I do not think that I have managed to answer any of your questions, but at least I was able to increase the confusion.
Picture Hangar is still wacked out, so I can scan the pics and e-mail if needed, just PM me.
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Looks great, Krusty.
:aok
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I also have a reference photo of 209 (208?) without the stripes. They added them at a certain point, but apparently before giving them over to the 44th FS.
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The white stripes look about 25% too wide if it matters.
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I think I can fix that.
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Looking good Krusty! 1 Thing i noted tho, is the weathering (footprints) on the side of the wing has only 1 tone. You might want to give it a little contrast here and there so it looks a little more realistic:
(http://ipmsstockholm.org/magazine/2004/03/images/isaksson_p-47drazorback_16.jpg)
Except that part, i love it!
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I tend to work in multiple layers, also. I just haven't forced myself to get on with it yet :D
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Great job, Krusty- those screenies are intense!
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can you say HOT! whew nice p40 :P, emailed a guy who actually was a pilot in the 68th LL back in ww2, hopefully he can provide some insight if not images of the planes back then, here is his website about the Lancers: http://lightninglancers.com (http://lightninglancers.com)
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I think the outside is done. I need to work on the cockpit now. Should be fairly simple (generation 1 cockpit), but didn't have time tonight.
Let's see if I can attach these images directly...
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I'm redoing the cockpit on this one.
Instruments so far. I can't redo the needles or they are off-center for some reason. I haven't figured that out.
There's also some odd issues with the alpha layers on the instruments, but I've figured out a few workarounds to bypass 'em.
Note the panel behind them is still 256 resolution.
I'm upgrading the 3 cockpit files to 1024x1024 as well, I just started on the instruments first.
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I might change some of the frames on the instruments shown above. I left some on based on what the defaults had, just to show variety. However, having them recessed was the general idea, to make them look like this (one of my references).
I can't make it realistic because of the type and placement of the in-game instruments, but I want it to "look about right"
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Cockpit work. I didn't resize the screenshot because it loses some detail.
I'm working on just file 1 of 3 for the cockpit so far. I have a lot of details to paint on behind the instrument panels. Also I need to play with the artificial horizon alpha layer. They always give me problems. I don't know if it's a photoshop 5 issue or not.
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Done and done.
Previous exterior shots are basically the same (with minor tweaks and revisions). Finally done with interior.
(http://www.nakatomitower.com/68th/p40e_68_25.jpg)
[EDIT: After this screenshot was taken, a couple of bugs were fixed, including the shadow around the artificial horizon mount]
Submitting it now. Whew, this has taken forever!
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Crapola! I just realized the OD demarcation line doesn't match up with the wing fillet! :furious
*sigh* oh well, I'll wait to see if it's even accepted before resubmitting it.
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Rejected. Apparently HTC doesn't want to do reskins of interiors because it makes the skin files too large.
:mad:
Wish I'd known this before wasting so much time.
They used to take them. A couple of my 190s have modified interiors. Take note for future reference, though.
Will be resubmitting sans cockpit files. :furious
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Don't worry, that skin looks so brilliant I'd say there's no justifiable way for them to reject it even if you have to take out the interior textures.
And by the above, I was talking about the exterior especially.
<S>
Yossarian
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(http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/7599/4067wm1.jpg)
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Yup, I have that photo or one just like it in my references folder!
I wish the P40E in AH2 was a bit smoother on the curves, rather than boxy like it is. It would make the illusion better.