Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Pacifica on April 24, 2007, 09:40:30 PM
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Let's say you know that a few formations of enemy bombers are 10 minutes out from your field... what do you fly and why?
Do you aim for a certain part of the buff when you approach? I usually aim for an engine and unload, hoping it catches fire or a wing breaks off. I'm wondering if this is the most effective way-- or there's a better way to take them down and conserve ammo (especially when there's a few formations, and you wanna take as many down as possible)
Also, what is your strategy at approaching them? I know some guys like coming from above sideways, some like coming straight down at them from directly below them, etc...
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What do you fly? ME-262
Why? Fast heavy fire power 4 30mm cannons I belive.
Where to aim? Anywhere with 30s only takes a few hits here an there and boom no more buffs!
How to attack? Come in high and on the nose kinda like a ho hardest for buff gunners to aim at.
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Something with cannons....lots of cannons.
Approach high 11 to 1 o'clock.
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I use a tempest cause I dont fly 262s enuff to be a threat in them.
I wont attack unless I have alt & speed, I usually attck diving in on an angle, with alot of speed, pick a wing & take it off, then re-alt, rinse, repeat.
Always best to have a countrymen with you, gunner can only aim at 1 at a time.
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You don't need loads of cannon rounds to take out buffs. A few well placed "spud" rounds from a Yak9T does fine. The Yak9U loves to set buffs on fire.
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109K4 with 75% fuel (max). Aim out the outboard engine, abd bye bye buff. Attack from high 6
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Planes with 6x50cal *can* attack bombers, but I've had a P51D put his ENTIRE ammo load into my B-17 and made it home (and have the screenshot to show all the bullet holes!!!).
P47s with 8x50cal actually do very well at bomber killing, if they com in high and fast. If they're below and slow they won't get a good solid hit.
Anything with cannon can kill a bomber easily. The more cannon you have (or the more ammo -- like a 190 with 500 rounds, but only 2 guns) the better your chances. 2 cannon are good, 4 are better. 30mm, *if* you can hit with it, is really better than 20mm, but it's far easier to land hits with the 20mm.
Speed is very essential to killing bombers. Either you're already at altitude and can dive (gaining speed) or you fly a speed demon plane, like a temp, typh, 190d, or La, or whatever.
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buffs 10 minutes out? Altitude undetermined?
type /.show flak36 and curse that it still does not work.
type /.show a26b .... get madder still...grrrr.......
Yak9T, Jug, G-14 w gondolas, the K..... depends on the situation and numbers.
Try to get above them and come down from high 1 to 11. If K1-67's, or B-26's, possibly try to come from below them. If Lancs, approach from 10 or 2 position, slightly low.
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10 mins out... 109K4... Bomber patrol up to 20K 190A8 Above 20K TA152
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I up a jeep and try to move the sheep as far away from the hangars as possible!
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Canopy if I'm in front of the formation, wingroots if I'm not, regardless of plane type or situation. MGs seem to have a good chance of setting the bomber on fire, cannons either cause a fire, or take the wing off. The Yak9T is, as thndregg mentioned, excellent at neutering buffs, and all the more enjoyable because I'm fascinated by the large bore cannon hit animation.
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Its not the Bike..... Its who's one the Bike!
999000
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You don't need cannon rounds to kill buffs. A good burst from 6. 50's in the canopy will pop a bomber nicely. Also, a nice stream into a wing w/ said bullets will saw it off or set it on fire. It might take two passes if you break off the first pass as the gunners' tracers start to get close. Bombers are not particularly hard to kill with the correct methodology(there are several).
Whatever attack you choose you must must concentrate your hits w/ the .50's or the gunners will chew you up and you will use up far more ammo than needed to knock said buff down.
I know a 51 pilot who has 46 buff kills, this tour, (counting the big buffs only) to zero deaths and all of his buff kills were in the 51D.
Concentrate your fire, duck out once the tracers get close and set up/ make another pass. It's not that hard. :)
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My favorite is to come up level with the buffs-build up speed, get to about 1 to 1.5k out, then Dive about 2k below them. The Buff gunner usually stays in the tail. Then, level out, pull forward of him about 2 buff lengths, then come up vertical on wep straight into the belly. You can usually get a pass in, He's usually trying to jump from tail, to belly, then trying to find the top, as you come back for a pass straight down. Or, instead of coming back down, you can level out at the top of your climb, and pull ahead of him enough to make a diving attack on his nose. I like this kind of attack because it gives you options.
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i agree with, Cav and NoName ,
most of the buffs are bombing at 10-15k, and K-4 has great, maybe the best climbing speed, also fast at that alt, you can make multiple passes at high speed, safe attack them from above, ignites the fuel tanks, specialy B24s, vertical dive and fire cannon only , soo you know when hit with the 30mm, not with useles mgs, cuz the trajectory is diferent, same like in IL2 killing gvs,
if are close to your base, the bomber pilot must be in F6 mode, doesn't have time for gunning, can take risk to park behind and blast them
f4U-4 is also great interceptor, i think outclimbs the K-4 from 14-to 20k ,
P47N, and Ta152 if are high over 20k
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I usually use a P-51, and come from 6'oclock High, then zoom out to his 3'oclock, attack from his 3 high...
Lances are pretty easy - I almost feel guilty sometimes. Wimpy .30 cals and only three of them.... no match for well armored fighters with lots of speed...
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G14 or K4, 30mm.
Aim for the cockpit.
If I have more time to climb the 190 A8 with either 4x20's and 2x20's and 2x30's.
The 110 G2 can be a blast too.
If I know some of those crazy Finns are inbound with 40 bombers or so I usually grab a 262 and wait for em.
262 allows me to get away from their intoxicated breaths without passing out.
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I prefer the 110G2 or the 190A8 but I'll go after them in anything including a Hurri I (which I've had surprising success with).
In the 190 or 110 I try to get above them and come in fast from their six crossing right to left. I'll usually take the right drone and the lead bomber and sometimes get all three on the first pass. I often take lead but usually not enough to take me down.
In lesser gunned planes I come in from their high six and concentrate on the right drone first, repeat for the other drone then finally go for the lead buff.
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6x12 are bane of bombers :aok Only 4x20 are better. Just dont shoot in fuselage, shoot in wings or pilot if you can aim well.
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i've made 10 or more kill sorties in my 51D. 50 cals are the best way to kill buffs because you get so much ammo, and if you set up your attack right, a small burst will blow a buff up.
get alt above them and attack from high 6. you get a nice approach angle, a big profile to hit, and you can kill the pilot from that angle. aim at the front of a fuselage, it's an easy shot to lead. 1 sec burst and the thing blows
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10mins intercept: 109K4, climb with WEP. Slashing attacks from the sides, aim for cockpit or wingroots.
Anti-Buff patrol: 190A8 with 4x20mm, either high 6, slashing or HO attacks. Or Pony B/D, high 6 with sufficient speed, aim for cockpit.
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Any 190, or any 109 with gondala's.
One method i I like is to attack them from head on and a little above, since 9/10 times there in the tail guns waiting for the guys chasing them to get into range.
1 pass 1 kill. Either killing the pilot or setting him ablaze.
Split-S underneath them, extend, then immelman head on into them again.
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As you can see in this thread so far, Pacifica, there is not one "perfect" technique, plane or ammo to get the job done, and return home safely.
Every bomber has weak points that can be exploited.
- The top gunner position in B-24's has a weak view of an attacker diving from a front, 12 o'clock high position, and only 1 set of guns per plane can be brought to bear on the attacker. A solid burst to a wing root will set them on fire. They will explode later, so pressing the attack any further on a flaming B-24 isn't necessary. Focus on flaming the remaining planes in the formation.
- Lancasters have only .303 caliber ammo in all gun positions, except rear gunner. They are vulnerable to low, front quarter attacks, again because of only one (weak ammo) gun position available to track and fire at you.
- B-17s share the sole top gun vulnerability of the B-24, but may not light up as easily.
- Ki-67s and B-26s share what I'll call a "sweet spot" attack vulnerability - a slashing attack from the side that traverses just below the track of the top gun until the last few hundred yards.
A good gunner will dispatch you quickly if you make a predictable, straight in approach across a path where multiple gun locations can track you.
You may want to tailor your attack to the prey, studying them to determine your technique, rather than using one technique against all types of bombers. Fly each of the bombers and defend yourself as a gunner, and you'll discover their weakness first hand.
And most of all... have fun and throw a out there.
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Bf-109 G-6/R-2
The R2 conversion I aim at the center bomber from 800 yards. The rest is history...
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Only, you get shot to watermelon at 800 yards because you're in a dead6 tail chase.
P.S. those WGr 21s have a range of between 1.2 and 1.4k, from all the tests I've done. You fire at 800 and I think they'll go past the bomber formation (unless you get lucky and they impact)
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well if 999000 is in the bombers your screwed any ways.
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Originally posted by VansCrew1
well if 999000 is in the bombers your screwed any ways.
Id say 999000 & I are runnin 60/40, maybe 65/35, somewhere in there. But he does have the bigger piece:D .
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Originally posted by Krusty
Only, you get shot to watermelon at 800 yards because you're in a dead6 tail chase.
P.S. those WGr 21s have a range of between 1.2 and 1.4k, from all the tests I've done. You fire at 800 and I think they'll go past the bomber formation (unless you get lucky and they impact)
I used to get kills with those all the time, including vs. running fighters but a long time ago they made a change in the rocket speed or something... I havent been able to hit anything with them.
I actually have had hits with 5" HVARS against bombers but nothing with the rockets designed for the job.
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when im going to take down a bomber its either a hurri 3, typhoon, temp,
p47.
p51srule:aok
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110 with 50%, DT and 2x Mg151/20 and 2x Mk108 attack HO the first pass and anywhere except from 6 the nexy two passes. once your done killing buffs go find some fighters.
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Originally posted by Larry
110 with 50%, DT and 2x Mg151/20 and 2x Mk108 attack HO the first pass and anywhere except from 6 the nexy two passes. once your done killing buffs go find some fighters.
if are B26s or KI-67s, you won't catch them after 1st pass
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Originally posted by Krusty
Only, you get shot to watermelon at 800 yards because you're in a dead6 tail chase.
P.S. those WGr 21s have a range of between 1.2 and 1.4k, from all the tests I've done. You fire at 800 and I think they'll go past the bomber formation (unless you get lucky and they impact)
No. #1, im doing about 600 mph in the dive in behind, so I can pull out and scram after my rocekts are off, and #2, the WGr21s have a range of 1,000, but since the B-24s are in fact moving as well, anything greater than 900 will detonate BEHIND the last two drones, and anything less with impact the lead bomber. BTW, the German Revi sight is great for the WGr21s, as the 2nd mil. dot down is right where you need to put that lead bomber.
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Originally posted by ghi
if are B26s or KI-67s, you won't catch them after 1st pass
Thats why you always have alt on them, and the 110 can catch every bomber except Ar234s.
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i agree with zipcode guy its whos on the bike,some still need training wheels!!!!Some can ride a unicycle,depends on the buff your attacking also dont forget
btw zipcode guy has more time on his hands he on the injured reserve so hes honing his left eye sight this month <>
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oh ya i forgot its also were the buff put the shot to dont forget,saying that might give a secret to some of these attacks
anyone want to try some of the planes on attacks look us up in the ma we always looking for a challenge,to perfect both sides of the coin!
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always attack head on, then attack the underside of the bomber. then the rear then the top. it always works, (pretty much 95% of the time most people attack at the rear first and never move any where else.) for big bombers(b17, b24, lanc) go for the wings its an easy and fast kill.:D
p51srule:aok
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The rear is the last place on a bomber you want to attack, taylor.
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.... unless it's a Boston III or a C47 :p
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All you guys way ahead of me on the kills
...best way to knock a bomber out and survive is to drop like a rock! from the VERY HIGH 6 position! going over 500mph..roll over immeditaely as you pass under the bomber peal out from the six position away.
999000
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999000 will rape a 262 with a ki67's tail gun,he's that good :O :D he's not bad at bombing eather.
~VansCrew~
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I hereby vow to take WGr 21s whenever I might run into bombers, and to practice with them on EVERY enemy formation I see.
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I'll start from high 6, but if I have rockets I generally wait and see if the buff pilot/gunner sees me. If I'm within 600 or so and they havent fired yet, I'll commit to trying to unload my rockets into the lead bomber first.
Reason? A rocket or three will knock off the wings like popsicle sticks. No tracer warning, and no real audible warning because it happens so quickly. Buys me a couple of seconds to pull out of range while the pilot is trying to figure out why his lead plane just turned into a brick.
Then I attack as normal, but only have the guns of 2 buffs to deal with.
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Any 109 with gondolas or Hog-C
Plan A - Altitude Advantage:
Straight down, aim for the cockpit. Start a bit ahead of him so that when you are in range he has to shoot straight up. That’s a tough shot from a buff. The poor gunner usually has a tough time quickly tracking you from 12:00 very high angle to 6:00 very high angle; he’ll have to simultaneously rotate his guns.
Plan B – Co-Alt:
Set yourself up on a collision path pointing your plane where he is going. This should put him at maybe 10:30 - 11:00 or 1:00 – 1:30. Make minor adjustments so that your path intercept point will be slightly behind him. Keep your wings level and avoid the temptation to turn into him. Let him fly nose to tail through your firestream. This also presents a tough shot for the gunner; it offers a very fast closing speed and a difficult sweeping track. It’s rare to even receive a ping. I’ve completely blown a few of these attacks though; it’s tough to set up and time well.
I’ve never read about this unconventional attack or seen anyone else use it, but it does work well.
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I use that quite often.
The only problem is because the closure rate is so fast and the angle, and the "from nose to tail" bit, you never EVER do catastrophic damage in 1 pass.
I don't like that type of attack because it puts me in a bad position afterwards, wastes ammo, increases the chance of a ram, and doesn't remove a bomber from the formation (so no reward for your efforts), and afterwards -- well you're in a bad position now.
Instead of doing that I'd rather take the time and effort to set up an attack that has a better % to kill one of the drones, that way if I'm in a bad position afterwards, there's only 2 left.
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When done correctly this is a 1 second burst attack and the buff explodes instantly. Most of the time, that’s what happens.
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Bombers? I fly the "away" plane 9 of 10 times. D'ruther not encourage the supercomputed lazer-sited gunners from hell.
Tumor
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Originally posted by Krusty
Planes with 6x50cal *can* attack bombers, but I've had a P51D put his ENTIRE ammo load into my B-17 and made it home (and have the screenshot to show all the bullet holes!!!).
P47s with 8x50cal actually do very well at bomber killing, if they com in high and fast. If they're below and slow they won't get a good solid hit.
Planes with 4x .50 cals can kill bombers quite easily as well. When I'm engaging a formation, I only use my machine guns as I'd rather save my 20mm cannon for fighters.
ack-ack
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Yes... they can.... and a hurricane MK.I can kill bombers too... But it's not the best tool for the job.
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P-38 is a very good plane for shooting down bombers without having to resort to using the 20mm cannon. YMMV though.
ack-ack
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I use the Yak9T.
Superior climb rate and good speed once you get it up (not a viagra joke).
37mm cannon does the rest baby!
One shot from that thing and.... :O ....as the buff goes :cry while there's a ton of :mad: and :furious on channel 200 which you reply to with :aok :aok :aok .
:)
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Ah, ack-ack, you're quite right! The MGs in the P-38s are a good bomber killing weaping because there is no convergence issues. Thanks for pointing that out.
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Vanscrew..if I remember correctly ..you basically own me!!
friend 999000
Btw anybody see the history channel dogfight where 17 enemy fighters attacked a single B17 it made it back! cool stuff
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Originally posted by 999000
Vanscrew..if I remember correctly ..you basically own me!!
friend 999000
Btw anybody see the history channel dogfight where 17 enemy fighters attacked a single B17 it made it back! cool stuff
Rumor Has it that 999000 and tater were aboard!
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Intercept 109k
bomber patrol Mossie:D
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Originally posted by Krusty
Ah, ack-ack, you're quite right! The MGs in the P-38s are a good bomber killing weaping because there is no convergence issues. Thanks for pointing that out.
It would be the same for planes like the P-51B. The problem is that a lot don't take the convergence into account and think since I'm seeing hit all over the plane, I must be doing damage. I'm sure the P-51B driver hits the bomber at the gun convergence point, it could easily cause catastrophic damage to the bomber.
ack-ack
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I'd use a fully cannoned 110. You can just hose down bombers with it from long way out. Head on if you can. But you have to be careful with friendly fighters around. I hit a B17 which was being tailed by a gaggle of fighters. The cannon rounds must have hit a friendly too and I killshootered myself straight back into the tower.
I also like the Yak 9 with the big cannon.
My favourite fantasy is to get the drop on a buff mission in a 110, just as they are about to drop their bombs and kill 9 or 10 of them at once. One day, one day :aok