Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: cav58d on April 28, 2007, 01:44:02 PM
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Why do bombers have external views? With gun positions alone, they already have a better 360 field of view than any other cat of aircraft. So whats the reasoning for all the f# command views?
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Probably mostly for formation purposes. I dont find that they lend any special help in locating cons while flying ingame over using any of the gun positions. But YMMV.
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AS individual who flies bomber this is due to not always being able to see cons. Now on the same token I dont think you should have external views on all bombers only the actual bombers not things like the A-20, Il-2, or SBD for example because they dont really have any 360 degree view. But the other bombers is due to you do have 360 degree view but when you are making a turn or something like that where you can not just hope to your guns to see cons is why even though in reailty your crew would be able to tell you where the cons where at and what they are doing.
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Originally posted by Warchief
AS individual who flies bomber this is due to not always being able to see cons. Now on the same token I dont think you should have external views on all bombers only the actual bombers not things like the A-20, Il-2, or SBD for example because they dont really have any 360 degree view. But the other bombers is due to you do have 360 degree view but when you are making a turn or something like that where you can not just hope to your guns to see cons is why even though in reailty your crew would be able to tell you where the cons where at and what they are doing.
I agree on the A20, the Stuka, and other non-formation attack/bombers. External is not needed, IMO.
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Bombers are manned by a crew.
That means more eyes on the sky than
just a pilot. With all those crewmembers
eyes scanning for threats the 'plane' has
a 360 view of every area around him.
Thats why.
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There's no way to offer a more realistic representation of an the SA of an entire crew without giving away track IR sets to every customer, and allowing buffs to be fully crewed.
Hey... I just had the best idea ever, HT. ;)
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I agree with Hubs. I'll email my address to Skuzzy
:t
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I hardly ever use external views as I think they are totally unrealistic.
If I want to look around my bomber, I jump to different gun positions, including to gun positions on different planes in the formation if needed, and look around. It seems to work just fine, and this is the same view the gunners presumably would have had.
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I was surprised to discover there were external views on any of the planes. I don't think that was the case in AH 1. Could be wrong there.
I don't have a problem with it really but it does disappoint me slightly because it detracts for the realism a bit. When I first started playing simulators back in the early 90's, I was coming from a radio control background and therefore wanted to fly everything from the external view. When I started with AH in 98, a couple of guys really gave me the "dweeb" treatment and broke me from wanting an external view. Now, I am a full "non-external" convert only to find external views have found their way into AH.
Oh well. Sometimes I can't keep up with all the changes in philosophy. :D
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IIRC, we've always had external views for buffs.
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
IIRC, we've always had external views for buffs.
Yes, they have always been there, from v1.00 to now.
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I really fail to see how this is an issue. It's a great way to simulate the SA of a multi-manned plane, and it also saves the players some major annoyances. Instead of having to constantly press keys to jump to positions, they can focus on flying, bombing, and enjoying the game.
Who wants to be forced to hit 1-2-3-4-5 every 15 seconds?
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Originally posted by Engine
Who wants to be forced to hit 1-2-3-4-5 every 15 seconds?
Skyrock
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Originally posted by cav58d
Why do bombers have external views? With gun positions alone, they already have a better 360 field of view than any other cat of aircraft. So whats the reasoning for all the f# command views?
What would be the point of HTC wasting 10 hours to fix that for you?
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Originally posted by Sweet2th
What would be the point of HTC wasting 10 hours to fix that for you?
It's definately better than any idea i've seen posted from you to start.
I don't buy into the whole it add's SA for bombers junk. I'm sure the 19 and 20 year old crews in 1944 would have loved this feature in real life too! Maybe getting rid of uber 360 views in bombers would actually level the playing field and make bombers work for their kills. Just as in RL, if a crew was lazy and failed to perform their dutys, the bomber would be attacked without notice.
And lets not forget that the aircraft is controllable from all gun positions in AH
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Originally posted by cav58d
It's definately better than any idea i've seen posted from you to start.
I don't buy into the whole it add's SA for bombers junk. I'm sure the 19 and 20 year old crews in 1944 would have loved this feature in real life too! Maybe getting rid of uber 360 views in bombers would actually level the playing field and make bombers work for their kills. Just as in RL, if a crew was lazy and failed to perform their dutys, the bomber would be attacked without notice.
And lets not forget that the aircraft is controllable from all gun positions in AH
Sounds like somebody got shot down by a bomber.
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Originally posted by Sweet2th
What would be the point of HTC wasting 10 hours to fix that for you?
10 seconds to fix that, its just a matter of unchecking a check box.
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Negative. My superior flying skills make it impossible for bombers to shoot me down...:D
I'm talking about getting rid of this feature for people like Bagrat and fockwoulfe
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Originally posted by cav58d
It's definately better than any idea i've seen posted from you to start.
I don't buy into the whole it add's SA for bombers junk. I'm sure the 19 and 20 year old crews in 1944 would have loved this feature in real life too! Maybe getting rid of uber 360 views in bombers would actually level the playing field and make bombers work for their kills. Just as in RL, if a crew was lazy and failed to perform their dutys, the bomber would be attacked without notice.
And lets not forget that the aircraft is controllable from all gun positions in AH
Well you knew i was gonna post that, you had too:D
Since when did you remember everything i posted idea wise?
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I disagree with having external views in any plane.
You are in a bomber... you should have to switch to the gunners position to see out of the plane from that view. Having external views is very unrealistic. Although, I've been playing this game for years, and now just came back after a 9 month leave and have noticed for a while that HTC does not care much for realism as they do for their community. Whatever they can make money off of, well, thats great. They won't change something and risk losing their bomber pilots who love the external views.
I think HTC has even made the game more unrealistic as time has gone on. It is more of a community than a simulation now. But is it even a simulation?
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Do I have to remind people AGAIN that pilots flying B17s & B24s are doing the jobs of 30 men! BY THEMSELVES! If you give me elite auto gunners then you can take away my F3 view.
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Why does a plane like an IL-2 have external view? And the Mossie doesn't? Always seemed odd to me. Didn't the Mosquito have more than one crewman?
Or is it because it would give the mossie a terrific advantage in a furball, much like the IL-2 enjoys when it's upped for base defense?
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Originally posted by Mak333
I disagree with having external views in any plane.
You are in a bomber... you should have to switch to the gunners position to see out of the plane from that view. Having external views is very unrealistic. Although, I've been playing this game for years, and now just came back after a 9 month leave and have noticed for a while that HTC does not care much for realism as they do for their community. Whatever they can make money off of, well, thats great. They won't change something and risk losing their bomber pilots who love the external views.
I think HTC has even made the game more unrealistic as time has gone on. It is more of a community than a simulation now. But is it even a simulation?
Hi Mak and welcome back.
I don't speak for HTC but here's a few of my ideas about what you've said. Since day one, Aces High has been a game. It is not a simulation.
There is a balance needed between gameplay, fun and player ability, and realism. If this were truly a simulation, I would guess that 99% of the players here would never get most planes off the ground. They would never even get the chance to shoot anyone down, and certainly not land the plane. Players would have to deal with cowl flaps, mixture, prop pitch, blowers, operational limits, maintenance problems, navigation, weather, winds... the list is long.
I believe that HTC makes rational decisions about the game.
Let's take the Mossie not having external views, versus any other crewed Bomber/Attack aircraft, as an example. I can see a rational reason for it. All of the other planes have a rear-facing gunner. The mossie navigator is seated beside and below the pilot and faces forward. One weakness of the mossie was that the navigator was not any help at spotting out the rear and below the aircraft. He would have had to twist around in the seat (no longer being strapped in), and the cockpit was not a clean place to swing his feet around. Even then, the two of them did not have a good field of vision behind the 3-9 line.
Now, I don't know if HTC used that reasoning, but it makes sense to me.
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110 has rear gunner but no external view.
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cuz its fighter?:rofl
What else except better outside view F3 gives you? nothing
Don't try to fix something what is not broken
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Well extern views in bombers are handy at times to see where bombs fall, but i barely use extern myself i fly usuing instruments espically while turning, to focused on maintaining level flight and banking angle, to search for cons while i turn. I believe anything WITHOUT a ball turret or venteral should be allowed to look externally. But ive been flying bombs a while now so it doset matter if we have extern or not to me