Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: badhorse on May 02, 2007, 07:15:23 AM

Title: Air to air rockets
Post by: badhorse on May 02, 2007, 07:15:23 AM
Can someone please help me with the use of air to air rockets, like those available on the 110?   I have tried them with very little sucess.  I usually get them to explode, but they seem to do no damage.  I have tried launching from distances from 800 - 1.5K out.  
Some help from the experts would be greatly appreciated.

And before the slams start, yes I did use the search function first, but since there were almost 4,000 hits I decided to try this first.

thanks
Title: Air to air rockets
Post by: AAolds on May 02, 2007, 07:36:42 AM
The rockets in WWII were really meant for use vs ground targets.  Air to Air missles really did not come out till the 1950s.
Title: Air to air rockets
Post by: BBBB on May 02, 2007, 07:37:48 AM
Quote
Originally posted by AAolds
The rockets in WWII were really meant for use vs ground targets.  Air to Air missles really did not come out till the 1950s.


:huh
Title: Air to air rockets
Post by: Larry on May 02, 2007, 07:38:24 AM
Quote
Originally posted by AAolds
The rockets in WWII were really meant for use vs ground targets.  Air to Air missles really did not come out till the 1950s.



LMAO bzzzzt wrong plase try again. Both the rockets on the 190F8 and the ones on the 110G2 and 190s were used for A2A.




Edit: Cant forget about the X-4

(http://www.ctie.monash.edu.au/hargrave/images/Rktside_500.jpg)



Click here for more German rockets and bombs (http://www.ctie.monash.edu.au/hargrave/rpav_germany_hr.html)
Title: Air to air rockets
Post by: Oleg on May 02, 2007, 07:42:55 AM
Soviet pilots use RS-82 as air to air rockets in 41
Title: Air to air rockets
Post by: Sting138 on May 02, 2007, 07:47:57 AM
I prefer to use the air to ground rockets in a2a. They just seem to work better for me that way.
Title: Air to air rockets
Post by: Larry on May 02, 2007, 07:48:31 AM
AAolds please use google or somthing before you spew something out. Iv seen you post compleate nonsince and then try to back it up with "I saw it on the history channel". So please study and learn about stuff that happened in WW2 before saying something that you dont know about.
Title: Air to air rockets
Post by: Larry on May 02, 2007, 07:50:03 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Sting138
I prefer to use the air to ground rockets in a2a. They just seem to work better for me that way.



I like geting a 190F8 with the rockets and .salvo 12 .delay .15 and dive in on them and let loose. :D



As for bad horse I dont really like using the Wgr21 rockets but from everyone I have asked they say use them between 1.5 and 1.0 out and aim alittle above the bombers.
Title: Re: Air to air rockets
Post by: Sweet2th on May 02, 2007, 07:51:49 AM
Quote
Originally posted by badhorse
Can someone please help me with the use of air to air rockets, like those available on the 110?   I have tried them with very little sucess.  I usually get them to explode, but they seem to do no damage.  I have tried launching from distances from 800 - 1.5K out.  
Some help from the experts would be greatly appreciated.

And before the slams start, yes I did use the search function first, but since there were almost 4,000 hits I decided to try this first.

thanks


I usually fire at 1.5 out snap pulling the joystick up when i fire them.Best attack is on bombers from 6 position in a 110-G-2.
Title: Air to air rockets
Post by: Xasthur on May 02, 2007, 07:52:11 AM
The only thing i've ever hit with air-to-air rockets is a few CV batteries :rofl

I've always tried to hit from short distances though, so perhaps I'll give it a bash from further out.

I thought about posting something like this myself a while ago, when I saw Parin's 109 rocket kill in his 'Angel What?' film.
Title: Air to air rockets
Post by: wooly15 on May 02, 2007, 07:56:32 AM
The only success I have had with them is coming down on bombers at almost 90 deg straight down.  That angle gives you a pretty big target.  They still didn't seem to do much damage,
Title: Air to air rockets
Post by: Larry on May 02, 2007, 08:01:32 AM
Iv seen them take out all three bombers with one hit.
Title: Air to air rockets
Post by: FiLtH on May 02, 2007, 08:20:01 AM
Not too long ago I was doing carrier cap with my squaddies and had a 190 w/ rockets. A p47 screamed in to attack the CV so I dove on him. At less than 1.5 I fired one rocket and saw a puff near him. I fired again and he exploded. Coolest thing to see! I filmed it too :)
Title: Air to air rockets
Post by: wooly15 on May 02, 2007, 08:26:57 AM
i'm going to have to go hunting buffs after work (with rockets)
Title: Air to air rockets
Post by: OOZ662 on May 02, 2007, 08:52:14 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Xasthur
I thought about posting something like this myself a while ago, when I saw Parin's 109 rocket kill in his 'Angel What?' film.


Somebody posted a DA Jug duel where all they were uing was rockets. One got the other in a snapshot with it, right down the spine of the fuselage. :rofl
Title: Air to air rockets
Post by: 4deck on May 02, 2007, 08:56:49 AM
Quote
Originally posted by wooly15
i'm going to have to go hunting buffs after work (with rockets)



*Tightens harness a little more, and grabs bottle behind seat. THis might hurt *
Title: Air to air rockets
Post by: Hornet33 on May 02, 2007, 09:58:30 AM
What I've found that works best for me is to use the standard gunsight, come up from dead six of the formation. At 1.5 out zoom all the way in on the sight and put the piper right above the lead plane. At 1K pull up slightly until the formation is right at the bottom of the sight but still inside the ring and chop your throttle. Give it a 3 count and fire while still holding a slight nose high attitude. The 3 count should give you enough seperation that the rockets will get there after about a 1.2 / 1.3K of travel.
Title: Air to air rockets
Post by: RedTopp on May 02, 2007, 10:11:37 AM
Quote
Originally posted by OOZ662
Somebody posted a DA Jug duel where all they were uing was rockets. One got the other in a snapshot with it, right down the spine of the fuselage. :rofl


I think that was Batfink. It was a cool film
Title: Air to air rockets
Post by: Atoon on May 02, 2007, 10:26:34 AM
The first time I ever aimed at a formation with intent to fire a rocket, I hit & killed the lead plane. That was with rockets on a Jug, and it was a strait 6 shot aimed high from about 900 out. I have never been able to duplicate, but have only tried about 5-6 times.
Title: Air to air rockets
Post by: BiGBMAW on May 02, 2007, 10:39:53 AM
the nazi a2a rockets were meant to fire in LARGE 40 Plus formations..so you would get a better chance of sending shrapnel into soemone..


I look forward to TOD rocket attaks on 100 + buff formations
Title: Air to air rockets
Post by: Scca on May 02, 2007, 11:42:03 AM
I have one kill with a rocket.  Got an A6M that was diving under me.  I just wanted to get rid of the rocket and thought, why not try....  and BOOM..
Title: Air to air rockets
Post by: lilprop on May 02, 2007, 12:01:32 PM
So any rocket will do damage if you managed to hit another plane with it, or do certain planes have air-to-air rockets available?
Title: Air to air rockets
Post by: bagrat on May 02, 2007, 12:09:52 PM
skill an luck is all i gots to say, ive nailed maybe 2 planes with rockets outta the 4 years i been playin this game. ide rather use em for vulchin
Title: Air to air rockets
Post by: Yknurd on May 02, 2007, 12:15:02 PM
Real men drop bombs at other aircraft, not shoot dweby rockets!
Title: Air to air rockets
Post by: Krusty on May 02, 2007, 12:19:07 PM
Quote
Originally posted by lilprop
So any rocket will do damage if you managed to hit another plane with it, or do certain planes have air-to-air rockets available?


The WGr 21 rockets on german planes are meant for air-to-air use. They explode in an air-burst of shrapnel after a set delay, meant to damage or destroy aircraft that they are near. If they hit the plane directly (before exploding) the explosion is much greater.
Title: Air to air rockets
Post by: tedrbr on May 02, 2007, 01:10:56 PM
This rates up there with the noob on Help channel asking how to get a "Lock On" with the rockets against another plane.

(http://www.thesmilies.com/smilies/happy/rotfl.gif) (http://www.thesmilies.com)
Title: Air to air rockets
Post by: CarlsBee on May 02, 2007, 01:46:04 PM
Quote
Originally posted by tedrbr
This rates up there with the noob on Help channel asking how to get a "Lock On" with the rockets against another plane.

(http://www.thesmilies.com/smilies/happy/rotfl.gif) (http://www.thesmilies.com)


Well if you know, just tell us how to lock on!

:rofl
Title: Air to air rockets
Post by: BiPoLaR on May 02, 2007, 03:09:47 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Larry
AAolds please use google or somthing before you spew something out. Iv seen you post compleate nonsince and then try to back it up with "I saw it on the history channel". So please study and learn about stuff that happened in WW2 before saying something that you dont know about.

does it make you feel like a man to prove a person wrong...ppl its ok...educate the man on it dont bash him
Title: Air to air rockets
Post by: Hornet33 on May 02, 2007, 03:15:22 PM
Quote
Originally posted by BiPoLaR
does it make you feel like a man to prove a person wrong...ppl its ok...educate the man on it dont bash him


We've tried the "being nice" approach. Didn't work, so we've move on to smacking him across the nose with a rolled up newspaper:D
Title: Air to air rockets
Post by: -CodyC on May 02, 2007, 03:20:12 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Yknurd
Real men drop bombs at other aircraft, not shoot dweby rockets!
:aok
Title: Air to air rockets
Post by: DREDIOCK on May 02, 2007, 03:36:33 PM
I used to carry them alot.
Never did get any good with em.
I got exactly 1 kill with them on a 109 once.

I have managed to startle the hell out of a few people with em though
Title: Air to air rockets
Post by: Mr No Name on May 02, 2007, 03:43:37 PM
I have posted my problems with the a2a rockets here before.  I haven't been able to hit anything with them since the change they made to them a LONG time ago.  Before that I got at least 1 kill for every 4 rockets I used, including using them against other fighters. All I have managed to do with them since then is to wake up the pilot so he could jump to tail gun.

If anyone has a picture series or film of a successful attack made since this change, I'd really love to see it.  I have tried shooting anywhere from 1.5K up to 800 yards.  Even 1.5K is within a good gunners range at high altitude and 800 yards is suicidal attacking from 6 o'clock.
Title: Air to air rockets
Post by: Simaril on May 02, 2007, 03:53:00 PM
Can't remember who it was, but a couple years ago -- maybe right after AH2 -- a vet killed 2 of my 3 buffs from >1k, using 5" rockets from a P-38L.

The damage was so catastrophic I never knew I was being hit. The bombers just disappeared.

I PM'd congrats, and asked how he did it. He said he'd worked on it a while (because B26 tail guns scared him :lol ), and would line things up then salvo a series as he pitched up a bit. He had already used some rockets or I wouldnt have anything to fly home in!
Title: Air to air rockets
Post by: Mr No Name on May 02, 2007, 04:05:18 PM
simaril,

i have done that before, usually when a 5" hits it takes the whole formation.  sadly i had better luck with 5" HVARS than the rockets that were intended for the purpose.  HVARS also have better ballistics and range.
Title: Air to air rockets
Post by: Larry on May 02, 2007, 05:00:09 PM
Quote
Originally posted by BiPoLaR
does it make you feel like a man to prove a person wrong...ppl its ok...educate the man on it dont bash him



Yes it does. If you want to say something stupid like some of the stuff he's said and have no proof to back it up I will beat you down like your BK:p


You wanna see what happens when you dont yell at them and try to be nice. all those AA guys have to do is do a google search and find any info they want. If you told them the sky is blue they'll say its red.

Click Here (http://forums.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=203147)
Title: Air to air rockets
Post by: Sketch on May 02, 2007, 05:29:37 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Larry
Iv seen them take out all three bombers with one hit.


Yeap, you can get the tail of the elad bomber and the wings/wingtips of the drones.  Gotten it a few times and is pretty funny to watch.

Quote
The WGr 21 rockets on german planes are meant for air-to-air use. They explode in an air-burst of shrapnel after a set delay, meant to damage or destroy aircraft that they are near. If they hit the plane directly (before exploding) the explosion is much greater.


The explosion is great because you have to ad the plane into the equation... not the rocket alone.
Title: Air to air rockets
Post by: AX_00 on May 02, 2007, 05:45:17 PM
yeah i ran out of ammo once in my 38 and i busted up a bomber group w/ rockets as a last resort. it was cool, i got one or 2?
Title: Air to air rockets
Post by: devild0g on May 02, 2007, 06:13:44 PM
I use the 12 rocket series on the 109 i think it is it has 12 rockets and set salvo to 12 and just dive on main bomber hit b and watch them all hit the top an usually they hit drones, same with planes that have the 10 red tipped ones, dayam those own when they hit, I hit one drone as i swept from the front and it nocked out the leaders whole wing rofl i got drone in cockpit. That was fun, and it isnt hard to kill pple when they r in bombers..... dont be a dweeb stay above them. It is alot harder for them to shoot with the top gun and it is alot easier for you not to miss them
Title: Air to air rockets
Post by: yanksfan on May 02, 2007, 07:20:05 PM
I have had problems hitting the ground with rockets of any sort!:furious
Title: Air to air rockets
Post by: Sweet2th on May 02, 2007, 11:45:10 PM
Quote
Originally posted by tedrbr
This rates up there with the noob on Help channel asking how to get a "Lock On" with the rockets against another plane.

(http://www.thesmilies.com/smilies/happy/rotfl.gif) (http://www.thesmilies.com)



Alt+F4 for missle LOCK
Title: Air to air rockets
Post by: AAolds on May 03, 2007, 10:42:46 AM
I was stating that guided missiles were not fully developed until the 50's , not rockets.  I should have clarified that.  Some of you people (Larry maybe) need to get lives, so dang touchy and a generally hostile undertone.  AH anyone.
Title: Air to air rockets
Post by: OOZ662 on May 03, 2007, 04:37:51 PM
Quote
Originally posted by AAolds
Some of you people (Larry maybe) need to get lives, so dang touchy and a generally hostile undertone.


Funny that he makes a statement to stop exactly what the statement is itself. Oh well, carry on.
Title: Air to air rockets
Post by: Larry on May 03, 2007, 07:06:42 PM
Quote
Originally posted by AAolds
I was stating that guided missiles were not fully developed until the 50's , not rockets.  I should have clarified that.  Some of you people (Larry maybe) need to get lives, so dang touchy and a generally hostile undertone.  AH anyone.



I have a life. Mabey you should by a book about WW2 or even learn one thing about it before running your mouth off like you know something. Then when someone prooves you wrong you try to "rephrase" what you said. The germans were biulding and testing missiles A2A, A2G, G2A, and G2G. Some were tested and some saw combat. Im so touchy because you say stuff that is complety stupid and wrong and worst off when you try to say something you dont back it up. "guided missiles" were being used and tested by germans in WW2 they might not have been heat seaking or radar guided like todays missiles are, but they were wire guided and flown by joystick into thier targets others were just flown onto thier targets by eye but noless they werew "guided".
Title: Air to air rockets
Post by: Sweet2th on May 03, 2007, 08:27:15 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Larry
I have a life. Mabey you should by a book about WW2 or even learn one thing about it before running your mouth off like you know something. Then when someone prooves you wrong you try to "rephrase" what you said. The germans were biulding and testing missiles A2A, A2G, G2A, and G2G. Some were tested and some saw combat. Im so touchy because you say stuff that is complety stupid and wrong and worst off when you try to say something you dont back it up. "guided missiles" were being used and tested by germans in WW2 they might not have been heat seaking or radar guided like todays missiles are, but they were wire guided and flown by joystick into thier targets others were just flown onto thier targets by eye but noless they werew "guided".



AAOLDS- 1st rule of this BBs--Everyone but you is a Aeronautical engineer that have unlimited experience in front of a monitor so tread lightly Bro
Title: Air to air rockets
Post by: Larry on May 03, 2007, 09:48:37 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Sweet2th
AAOLDS- 1st rule of this BBs--Everyone but you is a Aeronautical engineer that have unlimited experience in front of a monitor so tread lightly Bro



#2 dont try to be smarter the me because I r t3h l33t!!!!!!1!:p
Title: Air to air rockets
Post by: Sweet2th on May 04, 2007, 12:35:25 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Larry
#2 dont try to be smarter the me because I r t3h l33t!!!!!!1!:p


& U can fly threw the VH upsidedown:D
Title: Air to air rockets
Post by: Larry on May 04, 2007, 05:48:00 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Sweet2th
& U can fly threw the VH upsidedown:D




With a fully loaded F4U:p
Title: Air to air rockets
Post by: Masherbrum on May 04, 2007, 05:54:02 AM
Quote
Originally posted by AAolds
The rockets in WWII were really meant for use vs ground targets.  Air to Air missles really did not come out till the 1950s.


It's a good thing you didn't quit.   I see you still have some learning to do.
Title: Air to air rockets
Post by: Dowding on May 04, 2007, 06:05:26 AM
Hostile geekiness - a deeply unattractive quality, exhibited in spades by some in this thread.

Perhaps if you were a little nicer to people, new folks would stick around for longer.
Title: Air to air rockets
Post by: JB17 on May 04, 2007, 07:41:43 AM
Had more success in AHI than II.  We tend to only use them on level bombers and at 1.3 on their 6, nearly matching speed but closing.  Aim high enough that the bombers are out of site under your nose (110) and let em rip.  

Best results have taken out entire formations (many accusations of cheating) which is fun but very infrequent.  

We really just use them to fool around with.  Not really part of a serious mission loadout.
Title: Air to air rockets
Post by: Masherbrum on May 04, 2007, 08:27:23 AM
Quote
Originally posted by OOZ662
Funny that he makes a statement to stop exactly what the statement is itself. Oh well, carry on.

Exactly.
Title: Air to air rockets
Post by: Larry on May 04, 2007, 09:24:53 AM
Here are a few films showng how to use the WGr21s (Biggles and I were in the TA when I shot him so thats why he didnt die in the Lanc film. If we were somewere else he would have lost atleast two of his planes if not all of them.)




Click Here (http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/4/24/1013733/WGr21%20Kills.zip)
Title: Air to air rockets
Post by: Janov on May 05, 2007, 02:52:04 PM
I used to have regular success with the rockets on the 110 - now I donīt have much time for playing anymore. Here is how I did it:

Approach the bombers from dead six. Zoom in a little, and keep the formation about two thirds down the line wich extends down from the circle in the aiming reticule. In other words, one third of that little line is below the bombers, two thirds above. Keep the bombers there, be smooth on the controls. If you keep them there for lets say 45 seconds while you approach, you will enter a stable altitude relationship with the target, i.e. both target and shooter are in level flight, taking vertical velocity out of the equation. Once the range drops from 1.5 to 1.0 let loose with maybe a 1 second spacing.

The parameters will change with altitude, speed, and rate of closure, but this is a good setting to start. Film your attack run, later you can review it and see to which side you erred.
The 110 is a fairly big target, and the 50 cals will start hitting you almost at that range. If the bomber isnīt suspecting a rocket attack he might wait to open fire and you might get lucky. In other words donīt linger and watch, at 900 and closing you are dead against mediocre and better gunners.

Litjan, 1.hessische Freibierstaffel
Title: Air to air rockets
Post by: Larry on May 05, 2007, 04:13:33 PM
Heres a pic for one of the films. Shot all four from 1.2k out.







(http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/4/24/1013733/WGr21.jpg)
Title: Air to air rockets
Post by: hubsonfire on May 05, 2007, 04:30:32 PM
Nice films. I've been able to kill PTs, and inadvertently knock down the odd fighter, but beyond that, the woogerz haven't really worked out for me.
Title: Air to air rockets
Post by: Xasthur on May 07, 2007, 12:25:20 PM
I tried these for the first time today.

I sat 1.0 behind a few sets of 24s, tried to mimick your method in those films you proved, Truekill and for some reason they seemed to keep exploding short of the buffs and doing no damage.

Lined them up on the bottom of the sight 'ring' and nose-up a little...  The explosions where right should have been... they just seemed to not make it.

I got fed up with it not working so I just blew in on a set of 24s nice and fast, let them go as I banked away at 400 yrds and:

(http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i253/plague_06/109G-14Rocket1copy.jpg)

(http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i253/plague_06/109G-14Rocket2copy.jpg)


What I noticed here though was the lack of apparent damage to the other 24. Both rockets hit the lead 24 dead six but there was no collatoral damage to the drone. I watched the film and the rockets actually broke the tail section off the lead 24 before they exploded.


Also, do the rocket tubes detach after the rockets are fired?
Title: Air to air rockets
Post by: Larry on May 07, 2007, 12:37:00 PM
They were detachable if the fighter useing them got into trouble. But only if they were attacked by other fighter. I don't know why HTC didn't model them that way. If they ever choose to model them right you could just loose 5perks if you jettison them.
Title: Air to air rockets
Post by: Krusty on May 07, 2007, 12:42:55 PM
I kinda like keeping the tubes... You want the powah, gotta pay the price.

I, too, have been noticing that the rockets want to detonate BEHIND the target no matter how far I fire them.

Fired at 1.4 they seem to be close but behind, fired at 1.2 same, fired at 1.0 SAME!

wtf?? Is the propwash pushing them backward??

Which gunsite were you using, mate? Also, how'd you get enemy bombers to let you sneak up to 400 on them? At that range 20mms are more effective! :rofl
Title: Air to air rockets
Post by: Larry on May 07, 2007, 12:50:48 PM
In the 110 I get right behind them get to about 300mph and right when they get 1.5K away I count to 10 and shoot one every second and I get then easy.
Title: Air to air rockets
Post by: Krusty on May 07, 2007, 12:52:41 PM
Next time you do, take a screenshot of the sight image, please. Or film it and snag the screenshot from the viewer. I'm curious how high up you pitch, and what angle, and all that jazz.
Title: Air to air rockets
Post by: Xasthur on May 08, 2007, 06:11:13 AM
The reason I asked about the tubes was when I watch the film, the tubes were there before I got the buffs, and after they were gone. It doesn't worry me if they stay on.

Is this just the viewer being weird, as it does from time to time?

Krusty, I dove in on the buffs.... had rockets to spare... so I used them on the buffs and saved the 30mm for the fighters :D

I'm using the 109 sight.... I think i got it from Parin, i'm not sure.

It's basically exactly the same as the default, the horizontal and verticle lines just extend further out from the circle and have a few extra 'notches' along them.

I used the same method that Truekill used in his film.

It seemed like the rear-gunner shot the rockets up :huh
Title: Air to air rockets
Post by: Krusty on May 08, 2007, 08:35:48 AM
Film Viewer is flaky. They're still there in-game.
Title: Air to air rockets
Post by: Nangleator on May 08, 2007, 09:27:44 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Yknurd
Real men drop bombs at other aircraft, not shoot dweby rockets!

Yeah, but it's tricky to get the enemy to line up 3 fighters at once.  You know, so your drones don't waste their bombs.