Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Axis vs Allies => Topic started by: Panzzer on May 03, 2007, 12:13:01 AM
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Axis vs Allies: ALEUTIAN CAMPAIGN
June 2-3, 1942: Nearly six months to the day after Pearl Harbor, the Japanese struck again on American soil. The bombing of Dutch Harbor signalled the beginning of the Aleutian Campaign and led, in part, to the evacuation and internment of American civilians for the duration of the war.
On 6-7 June, 1942, the Japanese followed the Dutch Harbor raid with an invasion of American soil. After months of reconnaissance, they landed on Kiska and Attu Islands in the Western Aleutians, over 1,000 miles from Dutch Harbor.
So it's late 1942 in the Aleutians.
Allies (Bishops): A20G, P40B and P40E, P38G, F4F4, SBD and TBM.
Axis (Knights): A6M2, B5N2, D3A1 and Ki61.
With C47 and M-series for both.
SETTINGS:
AvA standards will be used for most.
Historical radar
Fuel burn is 1.0
Visibility is 10.0 miles
Object down time is 60 minutes for all important
field objects (except AAA - 15 minutes)
Base capture: 20 troops
All ack is 0.25.
Killshooter on.
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welcome to another week of ghost town
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I would have thought the planeset offers good matchups (P38G vs Ki61 for example) but I guess not.
And we've had the last two weeks in Europe with '43-'44 planes, time to change the planes and the location.
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Originally posted by storch
welcome to another week of ghost town
Storch - comments like that are not appreciated - and we know you've got a lot of good ideas to bring to the AvA, as well as your squad. So, how would you have run the Aleutian setup? What could we do differently?
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I personally don't like setups that involve the japanese becuase IMO theres not enough aircraft to make a good setup. Its always eather a early war or vary late war. Wasnt the Ki61 a 43 or 44 plane? What about the P38G is'nt it a late '42 plane? Again the A20 is a May '42 you think they would have them in action one month later? Plus if it is in the setup should be limited, and theres no way any japnese plane could catch it.
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Interestingly enough, I am just finishing a book I got from my local library called "Last Flight of Bomber 31". It is about the recovery of a PV-1 Ventura crew's remains that went down in Kamchatka during the bomber raids on the Kuriles. The book gives a brief history on the fighting in the Aleutians and cover the hardships of flying in such a tough climate.
I agree that this setup will most likely not have a big draw. As to why I have no idea?? It looks very interesting to me and should prove to be fun, no matter if it is not 100% historical. I think it has a different spin to it and Panzerr for setting it up.
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Originally posted by Larry
I personally don't like setups that involve the japanese becuase IMO theres not enough aircraft to make a good setup. Its always eather a early war or vary late war. Wasnt the Ki61 a 43 or 44 plane? What about the P38G is'nt it a late '42 plane? Again the A20 is a May '42 you think they would have them in action one month later? Plus if it is in the setup should be limited, and theres no way any japnese plane could catch it.
For some reason there has always been a large crowd that is simply not interested in the Japanese planes. I actually understand this, because I have a similar feeling about the 1945 ETO planes (Temps, Doras, and, of course, the spits). Not a problem, not every AvA setup is going to be appealing.
For those who haven't made up their minds, however, it pays to approach the PTO setups with an open mind. All of the Japanese fighters - ALL of them - are superior turn fighters. There is no plane in the AH plane set that can match the A6M2 in a turn fight. Those who are new to AH often find them to be some of the best planes to learn on. Vets can simply have fun flying them. The Tony takes some time to learn to fly well (Storch, as he is not letting on, is very good in a Tony). The Tony v. 38G or Wildcat is a challenge for any vet. From the other perspective, the P-40E can be a match for the Tony, but it takes a lot of skill and care on the Allied pilot's part.
As TK notes, the Japanese plane set is not as varied as the British, American or German sets. That's the main reason we don't run as many PTO setups as ETO. When we do, though, give them a try. Most of us find that they're a lot of fun. (NB: TK is correct that the Zeke won't catch the A-20, but the Tony will.)
Added bonus here: the Aleutian map is really a work of art. You feel cold, lonely and vaguely afraid the moment you take off. There are enough carrier forces to enable quick fights almost any time. Stop in and see for yourself.
- oldman
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And final thought: For me, the early war PTO planes have always been more immersive. I can see myself at Guadalcanal in a Wildcat, or, as here, over Dutch Harbor in a Zeke.
- oldman
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Setup is now done, enjoy. And let me know if something is wrong.
NOTE: The terrain download in game didn't seem to work for me, I had to download the terrain from here: http://downloads.hitechcreations.com/AHALEUTIAN.EXE before I was able to get in to the arena.
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I'll be flying it just ganna hearing me whineing about being able to roast marshmallows on my plane so easy.:aok
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is there anyway to set the fleet ack/flak to a low damage setting while increasing the hardness for the fleet to where it takes triple to sink anything?
I think the ack/flak from the fleets make these PTO scenerios less enjoyable as many use them as floating ack bases to hide in.
As i will be out of town sun - weds, I'll miss most of it so not a deal breaker for me, just wondering.
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Not trying to be negative here, but I have one small gripe, not so much about the setup but about how some setups are advertised.
Since it has been stated time and time again that the AvA arena is not nor will ever be a historical arena, but it is an axis vs allied arena, can we please refrain from calling this an Aleutians Campaign as if the setup is historical. There is nothng historical about a Ki61 in 1942 Aleutians.
I understand why you have the KI61 there, but please don't describe or insinuate that setups are historical when they are not, that goes for any setup.
Other than that it looks good to me. Oldman is right about the terrain. It is one of the nicest terrains made to date imo.
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It should go back to being called the CT I dont like the AvA name. CT has always been as historical as it can be, but I think the fun of playing overseads historical accuracy. This setup is historical to some degree but no setup will ever be 100% accurate, but they come as close as they can.
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*sigh*Another PTO setup.My problem here is this....You have the axis rolling out 2 fighters against 4 allied for starters.Add to the fact that all the 2 can do is turn fight really well and what do you get?880 sqn coming in at 20k and BnZ`ing you to death.HTC needs to fill this gaping hole in the jap plane set big time.Sorry for the bad advertising but i will be passing this week.I know getting shot down is part of the game but it would be nice to at least get a fighting chance.
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Don't be an arse, everybody was using the 20k airstart and at one point last night all of us were at alt disadvantage. 880 was down in the dirt fighting all night long last night.
If you makes you happy we will gladly fly IJ next week and you can have the Allied rides.
It's not the maps, the planesets, the substitutions, or the AvA staff that keeps the AvA from becoming what it truly should be. It's mouthy little punks like you. So pitch in or leave.
Because of JG54 AND 880 the AvA has had a pulse the last couple of weeks. You little pos.
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now that's more like it lol :)
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Originally posted by Skyfoxx
Not trying to be negative here, but I have one small gripe, not so much about the setup but about how some setups are advertised.
Since it has been stated time and time again that the AvA arena is not nor will ever be a historical arena, but it is an axis vs allied arena, can we please refrain from calling this an Aleutians Campaign as if the setup is historical. There is nothng historical about a Ki61 in 1942 Aleutians.
I understand why you have the KI61 there, but please don't describe or insinuate that setups are historical when they are not, that goes for any setup.
Other than that it looks good to me. Oldman is right about the terrain. It is one of the nicest terrains made to date imo.
and thanks for the feedback. Maybe I should put "what-if" in the title or add a line in the "Arena message" saying that the planeset isn't historically accurate. Leaving the Ki61 out would be an option too, but it would leave the axis with just one fighter... So I'll go add the line about non-historical planeset for now.
Eagler, yes it is possible to set the ack to lower damage settings, but there's no separate setting for field or fleet acks so it would effect field acks as well. They're now at 0.25 of their MA values. And yes, the fleet hardness can be set if the fleets are too easily sunk.
And as a reminder to all: The terrain download in game didn't seem to work for me, I had to download the terrain from here http://downloads.hitechcreations.com/AHALEUTIAN.EXE before I was able to get in to the arena.
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Originally posted by TheBug
Don't be an arse, everybody was using the 20k airstart and at one point last night all of us were at alt disadvantage. 880 was down in the dirt fighting all night long last night.
If you makes you happy we will gladly fly IJ next week and you can have the Allied rides.
It's not the maps, the planesets, the substitutions, or the AvA staff that keeps the AvA from becoming what it truly should be. It's mouthy little punks like you. So pitch in or leave.
Because of JG54 AND 880 the AvA has had a pulse the last couple of weeks. You little pos.
pull your horns in dummy!I wasn`t refering to the airstart at all.My point is that none of the allied planes will turn with IJN and therefore will be used as BnZ.You want an example?How about the last PTO setup when i told you to fornicate yourself......which BTW you can do right now as well.
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Originally posted by TheBug
Don't be an arse, everybody was using the 20k airstart and at one point last night all of us were at alt disadvantage. 880 was down in the dirt fighting all night long last night.
If you makes you happy we will gladly fly IJ next week and you can have the Allied rides.
It's not the maps, the planesets, the substitutions, or the AvA staff that keeps the AvA from becoming what it truly should be. It's mouthy little punks like you. So pitch in or leave.
Because of JG54 AND 880 the AvA has had a pulse the last couple of weeks. You little pos.
Last few days I was in there a few 880th would up a few sectors back while Im on the deck waiting fir them. Wow you cll other people mouthy little punks but look at what your saying. Just like last night A P47 was B&Zin me for 5mins then when he looses alt and we start turning you drop in and pick me. Then the very next fight I see you on the deck on Tbar so I dive in and pick you back and you start whining and blabing off.
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OK, I don't care who started it. Stop it. Now.
All of us enjoy the AvA as it is meant to be. It is exactly this kind of "he was mean to me" talk that was at the root of the departure of too many people from our arena.
If you gentlemen want the AvA to be more than a ghost town - and it is starting to show some signs of life now, happily - will you please shut your traps and behave?
Thank you.
- oldman
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but they started it :(
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38G's?
I'll be stopping in this next week. :)
IMHO the historical setup has to just be a base. With the planeset gaps there have to be considerations for gameplay, I think the ki-61 is a great addition in this capacity. It will be vastly more competitive than the A6M2, against the 38's, and P40E.
If we can get some IJN competition I'll see if I can haul the 80th into the AvA if we have someone to shoot at.
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Originally posted by Panzzer
and thanks for the feedback. Maybe I should put "what-if" in the title or add a line in the "Arena message" saying that the planeset isn't historically accurate. Leaving the Ki61 out would be an option too, but it would leave the axis with just one fighter... So I'll go add the line about non-historical planeset for now.
Thank you Panzzer. The what if would suit me fine. Like I said I understand why the 61 is there. Didn't mean to come off sounding like an arse.
I've always thought that the MOTDs, when pertaining to "historical" setups could not only explain the planeset, but even convey a little history to the novice or beginner, much like you have done with your descriptions of June 2 and June 6 1942.
:aok
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Originally posted by Soulyss
38G's?
IMHO the historical setup has to just be a base. With the planeset gaps there have to be considerations for gameplay, I think the ki-61 is a great addition in this capacity. It will be vastly more competitive than the A6M2, against the 38's, and P40E.
Don't think you will find a great difference in the 38Es that were in the Aleutians in 42 and the G model here, although I would have to doublecheck.
But I agree, the historical setup can only be a base line especially if you want to keep players. Sure there are some setups that could come pretty darn close historically but it in most cases people would not fly them for obvious reasons.
I am curious though on what the consensus is concerning the most important IJ plane missing is? Personally, I would like to see the Ki-45 or some Ki43 variants.
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Originally posted by Oldman731
OK, I don't care who started it. Stop it. Now.
All of us enjoy the AvA as it is meant to be. It is exactly this kind of "he was mean to me" talk that was at the root of the departure of too many people from our arena.
If you gentlemen want the AvA to be more than a ghost town - and it is starting to show some signs of life now, happily - will you please shut your traps and behave?
Thank you.
- oldman
I agree too many good people have departed, but I'm not convinced that all that need to have yet.
I'll gladly keep my mouth shut and you would never hear a peep out of me if some of these twits would learn to keep their crap to themselves. If some these idiots CHOSE to start talking BS about me or 880, like TK and allmetal have done I'm throwing it right back at them. With the big hope the idiots leave and don't come back. Then maybe the AvA will continue to grow.
I am quite certain of the problem and there may be multiple paths to the solution, but I have chosen mine. These little bastards drove us out but were back to fly the way we want and we'll use their scummy tactics to drive them out this time if needed.
I do apologize to all others, especially to the good crew of guys that are on JG54.
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Wow bug when did I talk BS. I think you need to chill out a bit. Jg54 helped build the CT and is/was one of the main squads who kept it alive, when we did leave for a few weeks back in the day NOONE came to the CT. I think calling us idiots and bastards is going to far and thats when keeps the CT down in numbers. I go into the CT to find a quick fun fight nd it was fun last night but when there are only 3-4 people in there and everyone is fighting down low sept one of you 880th buddies who is climbing to 25k from 2 sectors back its no fun to fly around 5-10mins waiting for him to get his alt. Its no fun to watch him run to the ack after he looses the alt and gets hit a few times. Everything Im saying isnt BS or trash talking its the truth. If I wanted to get in 20k fights and get ack draged then I could goto the MA and it shouldnt happen in the CT.
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As a side note, with thanks to Skuzzy, the in-game terrain download now works as it should.
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I like JG54, it's just you and allmetal I don't. You're stains of the CT's past and need to be mopped away.
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Originally posted by TheBug
I like JG54, it's just you and allmetal I don't. You're stains of the CT's past and need to be mopped away.
Look whos talking. All you do is talk trash and can't back it up when you fly. In the little time Iv been back every 880th Iv seen starts fighting at highalt then runs when they loose it.
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Originally posted by Skyfoxx
I am curious though on what the consensus is concerning the most important IJ plane missing is? Personally, I would like to see the Ki-45 or some Ki43 variants.
I'm just going to be greedy and ask for:
Ki-43- multiple variants
Ki-44-multiple variants
Ki-45- was there mutiple variants?
G-4M
A6M-3
A6M-7
JM-2
I know this doesnt really answer you question but I think we would need all of them. I dont see just one of them being the answer.
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Originally posted by Slash27
I'm just going to be greedy and ask for:
Ki-43- multiple variants
Ki-44-multiple variants
Ki-45- was there mutiple variants?
G-4M
A6M-3
A6M-7
JM-2
I know this doesnt really answer you question but I think we would need all of them. I dont see just one of them being the answer.
Yes all of those and the same amount of russian AC needs to be added, but with ToD being '43 bombing raids over Eruope I don't think we'll be seeing them any time soon.
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Originally posted by Larry
Look whos talking. All you do is talk trash and can't back it up when you fly. In the little time Iv been back every 880th Iv seen starts fighting at highalt then runs when they loose it.
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Originally posted by TheBug
Don't worry Im not going anywhere if I can help it.:noid
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Originally posted by Skyfoxx
Don't think you will find a great difference in the 38Es that were in the Aleutians in 42 and the G model here, although I would have to doublecheck.
But I agree, the historical setup can only be a base line especially if you want to keep players. Sure there are some setups that could come pretty darn close historically but it in most cases people would not fly them for obvious reasons.
I am curious though on what the consensus is concerning the most important IJ plane missing is? Personally, I would like to see the Ki-45 or some Ki43 variants.
I think it was E's and F's that were stationed there but I'd have to check as well. It doesn't bother me if they use the G at all. :) My main point was that the ki-61 did not historically involved (at least to the best of my knowledge) but makes a good addition for the sake of gameplay.
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Skyfox/allmetal - I understand and appreciate your concern for keeping the arena as historical as possible.
Like Slash mentioned - you can see the deficiencies in our current plane set. PERSONALLY, if it was up to me, I would ensure that only historically would be flyable. Our current plane set doesn't allow for that ~ we have to substitute.
During our past maps with rolling plane sets, we often had to sub in Bf109/Bf110 variants to fill the holes (big enough to drive a mac truck through - but that just my one sole opinion). We do have the capability of limiting the #'s by trying to provide a historical situation with what we have.
We can only do with what we have, and do our best. In my opinion, that is exactly what the AvA volunteers do. Also - Do I have to remind any of you again that we ARE volunteers. Calling it 'unhistorical' is not fair, nor is it appreciated because we are trying our best to live up to our motto: To provide the community a historical arena that simulates real WWII air battles. Some of you may be looking the gifted horse in the mouth.
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well my point i was trying to make before thebug threw his oar in was this....The last PTO setup was basically the same thing....IJN has slower turnier planes,allies have faster non-turning planes.What does that equal?It equals a bunch of the same guys (usually the 880 guys) coming in at 20k to BnZ.When you gewt them slow enough to turn you either get picked off or they run away.Valid tactics for sure.If it was reversed then we would do the same.I don`t know if there are IJN planes that could compete with this at RL.If there was then we need to get them.As it is right nowIMHO and many others will agree,what is the point of running a PTO scenario when the planesets are so unevenly matched?Why would I or anybody else try to fly against stacked odds?Its frustrating to me to try and go against a plane that will 9 times out of 10 run away.The 1 time it stays to fight is because his squadie is higher and coming in for the pick.Again,valid tactics.But why go up against that when I can go else where and get a fair fight.This wasn`t meant to be a flame on the 880 guys like bug thinks.I used them as an example because thats who we usually fly against.He assumed the wrong thing on my first post and went crazy over it.I will apologise for that when he apologises to me for what he has said.
this will be my last post on this subject as it seems to be getting out of hand.
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I haven't flown the P40E or P38G very much but looking at the "true air speed chart" posted on HTC web page I don't think they have that much of a speed advantage over the Ki61.
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Originally posted by allmetal
well my point i was trying to make before thebug threw his oar in was this....The last PTO setup was basically the same thing....IJN has slower turnier planes,allies have faster non-turning planes.What does that equal?It equals a bunch of the same guys (usually the 880 guys) coming in at 20k to BnZ.When you gewt them slow enough to turn you either get picked off or they run away.Valid tactics for sure.If it was reversed then we would do the same.I don`t know if there are IJN planes that could compete with this at RL.If there was then we need to get them.As it is right nowIMHO and many others will agree,what is the point of running a PTO scenario when the planesets are so unevenly matched?Why would I or anybody else try to fly against stacked odds?Its frustrating to me to try and go against a plane that will 9 times out of 10 run away.The 1 time it stays to fight is because his squadie is higher and coming in for the pick.Again,valid tactics.But why go up against that when I can go else where and get a fair fight.This wasn`t meant to be a flame on the 880 guys like bug thinks.I used them as an example because thats who we usually fly against.He assumed the wrong thing on my first post and went crazy over it.I will apologise for that when he apologises to me for what he has said.
this will be my last post on this subject as it seems to be getting out of hand.
You're so full of BS. How do you even bring yourself to type this crap?
Like I told you the first time you chose to start making things up..Just keep your mouth shut, nothing good comes out of it.
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Would you mind enabling AC at ports and Vbases. How it is now the closest land to land bases are about 40-50 miles away.
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The 332nd will be in the AVA tonight. Start time is 11 PM Eastern. We plan to split our numbers about 50/50 unless we have some opposition. Should be a fun time.
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Originally posted by TheBug
You're so full of BS. How do you even bring yourself to type this crap?
Like I told you the first time you chose to start making things up..Just keep your mouth shut, nothing good comes out of it.
so no apology then.
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WOW sounds like the AvA has turned into the days of our lifes:D. if i am feeling any better tonight i will jump in for a few rounds
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Originally posted by LTARkilz
WOW sounds like the AvA has turned into the days of our lifes:D. if i am feeling any better tonight i will jump in for a few rounds
Networks just re-upped our syndication, or maybe it's just re-runs, not sure.
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Originally posted by soda72
I haven't flown the P40E or P38G very much but looking at the "true air speed chart" posted on HTC web page I don't think they have that much of a speed advantage over the Ki61.
Not much a speed advantage at all over the Ki-61 but the P-38G can sure outmaneuver the hell out of a Tony.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by allmetal
this will be my last post on this subject as it seems to be getting out of hand.
Actually here's your apology..
I'm sorry you have no integrity.
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Originally posted by LTARkilz
WOW sounds like the AvA has turned into the days of our lifes:D. if i am feeling any better tonight i will jump in for a few rounds
Yes bug got sot and sliped in a coma and just woke up from it and found out slash was sleeping with his best friend, and later this week we'll tell you who it was.:aok
:noid
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Its true Im afraid. Being that Bug and I were never that close it seemed unlikely that I would hit it off with his best friend. But thats the course life has taken me. So now that the cats out of the bag, I hear by do confirm the rumor that I'm banging TK's mom. Or is it her twin sister? Or are they the same person?
:noid
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LMFAO dam i sure wasnt feeling worth crap today but lets hope i make it on for tonight i could just sit in the tower and have the time of my life watching 200 go up in smoke when someone kills someone else :D :aok
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All I got to say about this plane set, is it's fun. Had a blast Friday afternoon, (least I think that's when it was). I had upped a 38G to check out the fuel consumptions, and ran into soda in a A6M. Had a good 10 minute dance with Him, trying to use any and all tricks I could think of, to get a gun solution on him, while usin my speed and climb advantage to keep Him from gettin the solution on me. He ran outa ammo,about the time I got too dumb and too slow, and spun into the water, tryin to snap a reverse on him.:eek: :o
The next little to-do, I re-upped the 38, and he upped a D3. Talk about sweatin and hair pullin. He couldn't stay with me long enough for His BB's to hurt me, and I couldn't slow down long enough for a shot, without stallin.
That one ended when He ran me out of gas (took off with 50%), and I had to glide it home. He said he had 10 minutes fuel left, when he landed. BTW, I found out the 38 can glide a ways, if ya do it right, went a whole sector from about 6k alt, back to land the bugger
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Jaekart! Now that your back you going to return to 880 I hope?
Welcome back sir! :aok
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it sure is good to return and see thebug being his old unabridged self.
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add the F6F people will have much more fun:noid :noid :noid :noid :noid :noid
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Originally posted by hellcatz
add the F6F people will have much more fun:noid :noid :noid :noid :noid :noid
Wow! Brilliant!! Throw a 1944 model aircraft into a 1942 setup.Your childish over use of the :noid emocon is the smartest contribution you made to this thread.
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Did anyone else have trouble getting into the AvA last night? I tried and my computer locked up. :furious . Of course I just did a MS update :rofl
After rebooting I went to LW orange and became a victim of the Vulch fest @ A4. Well not really a victim I chose to keep upping from A4. The supporting bases were to far away and I'm an impatient man. :o
Cheers,
gusman44
IS 880 going to be in there tonight? The earliest I can get in there is 10pm EST but maybe I can catch the tail end of the fun
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Shifty hellcatz is one of those squeakers that want the B29 with n00kz.
gusman I didnt have trouble there were were about 6-8 people in there for a few hours.
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Originally posted by Larry
Shifty hellcatz is one of those squeakers that want the B29 with n00kz.
Squeakers, I wish their parents would take the computer away and give them lawn mowers and weedeaters to keep them busy.
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Your telling me.:D Ganna be alot of squelching this summer but my K/D is going to sky rocket.:aok