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General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: redman555 on May 05, 2007, 11:37:03 PM

Title: Is this going to far?
Post by: redman555 on May 05, 2007, 11:37:03 PM
Ok guys, idk what u all think but this base ack is really starting to get alittle overdone, it just seems way to accurate to be ack
Title: Is thos going to far?
Post by: Rino on May 05, 2007, 11:55:01 PM
I think the ack  is fine myself:D
Title: Is thos going to far?
Post by: halcyon on May 06, 2007, 12:05:22 AM
Tell you what.

Try running through a golf course when the sprinklers are on and then go complain to management about how accurate the 50 billion droplets of water were.
Title: Is thos going to far?
Post by: redman555 on May 06, 2007, 01:00:50 AM
the thing is, in WW2 ack rarely kills planes let alone hit them, just seems to accurate to me
Title: Is thos going to far?
Post by: TinmanX on May 06, 2007, 01:09:04 AM
Use of past tenses in the same sentence as present tenses leaves Tinman confused. Tinman no likey.
Title: Is thos going to far?
Post by: swift on May 06, 2007, 01:18:33 AM
People circling for 20 minutes at a time to shoot planes on the ground went well beyond the way too farness of the current ack. Love the change.
Title: Is thos going to far?
Post by: 68slayr on May 06, 2007, 01:26:04 AM
before all the new ack i could deack a whole small field by myself 9 times out of 10  then vulch it at my leisure get 15 kills and go....that was fun....now it is a challenge
Title: Is thos going to far?
Post by: Cooley on May 06, 2007, 02:09:51 AM
^ what slayr said

Used to do it in two passes, one rocket per ack,
though I can only get a couple kills before my squadies show up
just after ive deacked and steal all the kills...

I like the changes also
Title: Is thos going to far?
Post by: Hazzer on May 06, 2007, 02:57:46 AM
Bofors,37mm/20mm/and even rifle calibre weapons were very accurate during wwII,and taking them out was then and is in AH very hazardous.

Your thinking of the high alt ack which was less accurate and required many rounds fired to achieve a hit.;)
Title: Is thos going to far?
Post by: ColKLink on May 06, 2007, 06:18:17 AM
I hate the ack, but I really didnt think it was nearly effective enough in the old set up, so, even though i dont care for it, it is a game improvement in my humble opinion.....Nobody really cares do they ? ;)
Title: Is thos going to far?
Post by: TequilaChaser on May 06, 2007, 06:30:04 AM
who was the one doing the flash animations, showing the vulcher squadrons vulching a field?

they should do a new upgraded version that shows them droping like fleas in a fogger.........

with the ack positions going "mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine

reload wait for next vulcher squadron to attempt .get ready  here they come

rata tat tat, rata tat tat, ---> mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine
Title: Is thos going to far?
Post by: Trukk on May 06, 2007, 06:50:33 AM
Quote
Originally posted by redman555
the thing is, in WW2 ack rarely kills planes let alone hit them, just seems to accurate to me

Actually, AAA was quite deadly and ground attack squadrons had quite high loss rates due to it.
Title: Is thos going to far?
Post by: Ghosth on May 06, 2007, 08:41:00 AM
Acks should all be manned except for 4 at each field.

I get that a couple people can't landgrab anymore because of all the acks.
And I understand why at times people should have the option to run to acks.

However myself I'd much prefer that like everything ELSE in the game that shoots it should be player manned.
Title: Is thos going to far?
Post by: Xasthur on May 06, 2007, 08:49:12 AM
New ack is good.


Stay fast = no problems
Title: Is thos going to far?
Post by: redman555 on May 06, 2007, 09:41:21 AM
yes but the biggest problem i think since they made it more acccurate is ppl are babys and when u want to have a good dogfight they run to the base ack for help,  i wouldent mind haveing a nice dogfight once and awhile
Title: Is thos going to far?
Post by: pictolrac on May 06, 2007, 09:46:14 AM
Hi Redman - I man a lot of flack on base usually on a half track with four .50s. I score a lot of kills this was asthe 50s just need few hits to rip off a wing. The slower firing base guns do not do the same business though.
Regards,
Scot100
Title: Is thos going to far?
Post by: lambo31 on May 06, 2007, 09:48:57 AM
I love the Ack! Now when a field is being vulched most of the time it's by people who are actually trying to take a base.

Lambo
Title: Is thos going to far?
Post by: Zazen13 on May 06, 2007, 09:54:30 AM
Quote
Originally posted by redman555
the thing is, in WW2 ack rarely kills planes let alone hit them, just seems to accurate to me


You need a history lesson my friend...Fully 80% of all aircraft losses in WWII were due to ground fire not enemy aircraft. Those who were in the ground attack role would clinch teeth and butt pucker everytime they went in on a target for fear of the ack...

Zazen
Title: Is thos going to far?
Post by: Yknurd on May 06, 2007, 10:10:43 AM
Well, Redman is about as accurate grammatically as he is historically.
Title: Is thos going to far?
Post by: KTM520guy on May 06, 2007, 10:37:27 AM
The new ack is good. I do think that all of it should be manned. One or two of them should also be German 88s.
Title: Is thos going to far?
Post by: Bronk on May 06, 2007, 10:40:46 AM
I think all ack should be manned.  However, if none are manning it AI should take over.
Town included.



Bronk
Title: Is thos going to far?
Post by: TUXC on May 06, 2007, 11:30:27 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Bronk
I think all ack should be manned.  However, if none are manning it AI should take over.
Town included.



I completely agree and was actually just about to post this.
Title: Is thos going to far?
Post by: Fulmar on May 06, 2007, 12:26:45 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Ghosth
Acks should all be manned except for 4 at each field.


I agree.  Let's put a little more human in this challenge rather than random modifiers that determine the accuracy of the AI controlled ack.
Title: Is thos going to far?
Post by: toadkill on May 06, 2007, 12:36:37 PM
I agree with Bronk. All ack should be manable, and when not manned the ack would fire on its own.
Title: Is thos going to far?
Post by: Gianlupo on May 06, 2007, 12:55:09 PM
Quote
Originally posted by redman555
the thing is, in WW2 ack rarely kills planes let alone hit them, just seems to accurate to me


Maybe you should read some more book. Like Clostermann's The big show. And learn not to stay in ack range.... wait for them outside, they will be back, in the end. Or fly through the field at high speed, you'll be mostly unarmed.

P.S. Bronk, good idea!
Title: Is thos going to far?
Post by: Furball on May 06, 2007, 12:56:48 PM
don't get me started on AI ack... :mad:
Title: Is thos going to far?
Post by: Gianlupo on May 06, 2007, 01:08:13 PM
Lol, Furball, shut up! We all know that HT programmed AI to kill you. In fact the safer way to deal with it is to have you as wingman! :D
Title: Is thos going to far?
Post by: Furball on May 06, 2007, 01:22:27 PM
I got shot down taking off the other day by own AA fire.

Tell me... what is an effective AI base defence system doing shooting down fighters trying to defend the base?

:mad:
Title: Is thos going to far?
Post by: hubsonfire on May 06, 2007, 01:32:34 PM
Quote
Originally posted by redman555
the thing is, in WW2 ack rarely kills planes let alone hit them, just seems to accurate to me


:rolleyes: kids.

Quote
**Excerpt from The Big Show by Pierre Clostermann.**

We were at 14,000 feet and kept straight on over to the left, as if we had no intention of attacking. I took a close look at the field: the small crosses parked just where we expected them showed up on the bright green grass of early spring. I particularly noticed one, two, four, seven flak towers. Their shadows clearly projected on the perimeter track by the sun

'Look out Filmstar Leader, flak at 6 o'clock!'

Sure enough, 200 yards behind us five big black puffs from 88 mm. shells had appeared. OK, five more seconds and then I would attack. The objective was behind us and we were facing the sun. Fear caught me by the throat and stopped me breathing. Aerial combat always found me calm -
after the early stages - but flak was quite different.

'Drop your tanks, Filmstar'.

My stomach contracted and a wave of nausea swept over me - the advantage of a single-seater is that you can pass out with fear without anybody noticing.

'Quick. 180 port, go.'

This would bring us back facing the airfield, with the sun at our backs.

'Diving--full out, Filmstar!'

My nine Tempests were beautifully echeloned on my left although we were diving almost
vertically.

'Smell of flowers,' came Bay Adams voice mockingly in the earphones. Flak! Christ, what flak! The entire surface of the airfield seemed to light up with the flashes from 20mm and 37mm guns. There must have been at least ***40*** of them. A carpet of white puffs spread out below us and the black puffs of the 37's stood out in regular string of eight.

What flak! Physical fear is the most terrible thing a man can suffer - my heart leaped into my mouth, I was covered with sweat, with sticky, clammy sweat. My clenched toes swam in my boots.

We dived desperately into the moke…explosions and tracer to left and right crossing over and under us….bangs around our wings and sinister dazzling flashes.

We were a mile from the perimeter, 150 feet from the ground. Men were running hither and thither.

'Lower for Christ's sake,' I yelled hysterically. The broad expanse of grass, carved by the gray runways, tilted up before my eyes and rushed towards me. We were doing over 450 mph. First a hangar … a bowser … then the Messerschmitts, perched clumsily on their narrow gear, about thirty of them, with men crouching under their wings. Too far to the left, unfortunately, outside my line of fire.

A group of a dozen Arados loomed up in my sight. I fired, I fired frantically, my thumb jammed on the button. My shells formed a ribbon of explosion worming its way between the Arados, climbing up the fuselage, hitting theengines … smoke …one of the planes exploded just as I was over it, and my Tempest was tossed up by the burning gust. A Tempest touched the ground and the fuselage
bounded up in a shower of fragments of smashed wings and tailplanes. More hangars in front of me. I fired a second burst-it exploded on the galvanized iron doors and the steel tanchions.

'Look out , Red 2' My No. 2 was coming straight for me, out of control, at a terrific speed. His hood had gone. At 470 mph 20 yards to my right, he went smack into a flak tower, cutting it in two beneath the platform.

The wooden frame flew into the air. A cluster of men hanging on to a gun collapsed into space. The Tempest crashed on the edge of the field, furrowing through a group of little houses, with a terrific flash of light; the engine had come adrift in a whirlwind of flames and fragments scattered in the sky.

It was all over … almost. One, two, three … the tracer bullets were pursuing me. I lowered my head and hunched myself behind my rear plating … twelve, thirteen, fourteen … I was going to cheat …a salvo of 37 burst so close that I got only the flash of the explosions without seeing the smoke…splinters rained down on my uselage…nineteen, twenty! I pulled the stick back and climbed straight up into the sky. The flak kept on.

I glanced back towards Schwerin, just visible under my tailplane. A thousand feet below a Tempest was climbing in zig-zags, the tracer stubbornly pursuing him. Fires near the hangars, columns of greasy smoke, a fireworks display of exploding magnesium bombs. The lone Tempest caught me up, waggled his wings and formed up line abreast.

'Hallo, Filmstar aircraft, reform south of target, angels 10.'

'Hallo, Pierre, Red 3 here, You know, I think the rest have had it.'

Surely Bay couldn't be right! I scanned the 360 degrees of the horizon, and the terrific pyramid of flak bursts above Schwerin right up to the clouds, hanging in the still air. No one.

1304 hours. We had attacked at 1303 hours. The nightmare had lasted perhaps 35 seconds from the beginning of our dive, and we had lost eight aircraft out of ten….
Title: Is thos going to far?
Post by: B@tfinkV on May 06, 2007, 01:45:31 PM
the other day i was hanging 10 miles off an enemy base with no enemy to fight.

a lonely box of friendly b26s came by and i formed up on him. he proceded to level bomb the [huge, biggest we have] airfield from about 2,000ft. For a laugh i thought i'd fly barrel rolls round his formation.


we went from one end to the other, he lost two drones and some flaps n stuff, and i didnt even get hit once.


it was crazy.

carry on.
Title: Is thos going to far?
Post by: REP0MAN on May 06, 2007, 08:53:11 PM
If you don't like the ack, stop flying though it.

:aok





Or have your cousin fly through it for you
Title: Re: Is this going to far?
Post by: CAP1 on May 06, 2007, 09:08:05 PM
Quote
Originally posted by redman555
Ok guys, idk what u all think but this base ack is really starting to get alittle overdone, it just seems way to accurate to be ack



can you imagine all the vulching goin on if ack was less?
or....can you imagine how fast a base would be bombed into submission>? or overrun with GV's?

 it might be wrong, but it's needed here.......
Title: Is thos going to far?
Post by: Leayme on May 06, 2007, 09:11:12 PM
AA and AAA should be deadly to all, never mind if it is at your field or that of the enemy.

If anyone has seen films of bomber raids at night or even during the day, you wonder how anything could have made it thru.

Planes did not enter into flack zones, they had specific area's of interception, because the gunners job on the ground was to stop anything that made it past the fighters.

Planes did not fly within the effective zone of a battle groups AA envelope for the same reason, the fired shell cannot tell the difference between a friendly and a not so friendly aircraft.

If AA was lethal to all, then running back to hide in friendly skies would end, because you may get shot down or the guns would need to stop firing and then the enemy would barrel right in to get you and the base.

If a trial base was set up with AA/AAA defences to the level of a WW2 field, everyone complaining about it now, would be glad to go back to the current status quo.

That is not to say there aren't glitches, that need to be looked at, but if they move closer to the historical reality.....
Title: Is thos going to far?
Post by: hubsonfire on May 06, 2007, 10:56:53 PM
Quote
Originally posted by REP0MAN
If you don't like the ack, stop flying though it.

:aok





Or have your cousin fly through it for you


:lol
Title: Is thos going to far?
Post by: redman555 on May 06, 2007, 11:03:24 PM
well explain this 1, i was in a C-hawk mission and we were at over 20k, a 5 incher hit the bottom of my plane and i lit on fire



and i do think also all ack should be manned, it adds a challenge
Title: Is thos going to far?
Post by: Leayme on May 06, 2007, 11:18:04 PM
20 K divide by 5280 ft = 3.78 miles well within the range of the 5 inch gun gun (13 nautical miles) the shells of the 5 inch guns are radar fused, not variable timed, that was strictly smoke and mirrors to hide that pertinent fact.

The are designed to detonate, when a certain reflective threshold is broken, as in when they see a target thats meets a set parameter.

There are several old posts here that deal with the question of 5 inch guns and AAA, of which I was a participant, do a search on my name and you will find them.

AA/AAA as arrayed in WW2 was a fearsome impediment to aircraft, what is modeled in the game is not even a hint of a shadow of what it truly was.
Title: Is thos going to far?
Post by: xtyger on May 06, 2007, 11:18:22 PM
thing that gets me about the ack now, is it gets you so far away from the field or town. That kind of irks me. I'll make it through a pass on a field or town and finally get what seems to be a mile or two away, then BOOM. I'm shot down.

I think it should be fairly accurate for an unguarded base, if only to keep a field from being a pushover. If there's people guarding the base- one way or another, like planes upping and such- they should loosen up on it a bit.

As an aside, I don't think that would be a good idea to have all ack manned. It would take too much manpower. That said, I wonder why they don't allow some of the town ack to be manned?
Title: Is thos going to far?
Post by: Gianlupo on May 07, 2007, 02:33:09 AM
Quote
Originally posted by REP0MAN
Or have your cousin fly through it for you


:rofl

Hub, do you read minds? That was exactly the excerpt from Clostermann's book I had in mind! :eek: