Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Widewing on May 07, 2007, 01:09:26 PM

Title: Bf 109G-14 performance uprated?
Post by: Widewing on May 07, 2007, 01:09:26 PM
I just tested the 109G-14 for speed at sea level.

With 25% fuel, zero burn using WEP, I recorded 357 mph. 351 mph with a bomb rack installed.

That is 9 mph faster than previous test data has shown (348 mph).

Was the 109G-14 speed model revised for the last update?

Other observed speeds:

403 mph @ 15k
405 mph @ 16k
406 mph @ 16.5k
404 mph @ 18k

My regards,

Widewing
Title: Bf 109G-14 performance uprated?
Post by: Stang on May 07, 2007, 01:17:05 PM
Wide do the speeds at alt match what they should be?  Or is it still too slow?
Title: Bf 109G-14 performance uprated?
Post by: Widewing on May 07, 2007, 01:40:20 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Stang
Wide do the speeds at alt match what they should be?  Or is it still too slow?


It appears to be about 4 to 8 mph slower than reports indicate it should be. However, the 9 mph boost at sea level is more important in the MA environment, IMHO.

My regards,

Widewing
Title: Bf 109G-14 performance uprated?
Post by: 1K3 on May 07, 2007, 01:49:17 PM
last 109g14 update

Quote
Version 2.07 Changes
======================

Changed top speed performance of the 109G-14 in emergency power.
Title: Bf 109G-14 performance uprated?
Post by: Krusty on May 07, 2007, 02:21:01 PM
I don't recall seeing that in the old update readme!

Hiding stuff, those buggers at HTC!
Title: Bf 109G-14 performance uprated?
Post by: Widewing on May 07, 2007, 02:24:03 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Krusty
I don't recall seeing that in the old update readme!

Hiding stuff, those buggers at HTC!


Yep, 1K3 is right. I guess no one has tested the G-14 since its introduction.

My regards,

Widewing
Title: Bf 109G-14 performance uprated?
Post by: Krusty on May 07, 2007, 02:34:45 PM
Since its upgrade, you mean?

It was well tested after its introduction, as folks were saying it was below such-and-such speed, and wanted to know why.
Title: Bf 109G-14 performance uprated?
Post by: Widewing on May 07, 2007, 03:02:43 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Krusty
Since its upgrade, you mean?

It was well tested after its introduction, as folks were saying it was below such-and-such speed, and wanted to know why.


It was tested at its introduction, but not since and apparently not after the upgrade.

Now I have to test it at 10k to revise my 10k list.

My regards,

Widewing
Title: Bf 109G-14 performance uprated?
Post by: Bruno on May 07, 2007, 04:54:19 PM
It was tested at introduction - then it was fixed and tested again. It's top speed at FTH is to slow and its overweight. I posted before that I believe its modeled with the weight and speed of a G-14 with gondolas but its close enough not to worry about.
Title: Bf 109G-14 performance uprated?
Post by: Benny Moore on May 07, 2007, 06:02:21 PM
But it's too fast at sea level?
Title: Bf 109G-14 performance uprated?
Post by: Bruno on May 07, 2007, 06:37:43 PM
Its not 'too fast' or 'too slow' - the given figure at sea level is 352 mph WW got 357. 4 mph is meaningless.

The FTH (5000m / 16400ft) speed is reported at 412mph - WW got 405. LW tests show that gondolas cost about 12km/h in speed  (7.5 mph).

On the AH webpage the G-14 is listed with a

Quote
Maximum loaded weight: 7700 lbs.


Which is roughly (3500 kg). This is the weight of a G-14 with gongolas:

652km/h at FTH Bf-109G14/U4 with Gondolawaffen (gondolas) weighing 3501 kg

Clean:

665km/h at FTH Bf-109G14/U4 with clean configuration weighing 3318 kg.

Does 'maximum loaded weight' mean with gondolas on the AH web page?

Even so who cares +5 here -7 mph it doesn't mean a whole heck of a lot. In real life you would find variations in performance between the same aircraft types.
Title: Bf 109G-14 performance uprated?
Post by: Widewing on May 07, 2007, 06:55:46 PM
In game speeds at 10k, 25% fuel, zero burn for WEP and MIL power. Added two popular Allied fighters for contrast.

Bf 109G-14: 393 mph WEP / 360 mph MIL

Bf 109K-4: 412 mph WEP / 382 mph MIL

P-51D: 407 mph WEP / 400 mph MIL

Spit XVI: 385 mph WEP / 358 mph MIL

My regards,

Widewing
Title: Bf 109G-14 performance uprated?
Post by: Benny Moore on May 07, 2007, 08:17:51 PM
Four miles per hour is "meaningless" if your ship is that much faster than it should be, but seven miles per hour isn't if it's that much slower than it should be?  If you ask me, an error's an error whether it be excess weight or excess top speed.
Title: Bf 109G-14 performance uprated?
Post by: Bruno on May 07, 2007, 09:43:15 PM
Its not 'an error' all G-14s didn't do '352 mph' exactly on the dot at sea level. In real life one G-14 (or any plane) might be faster , another much slower etc...

Quibbling over 4 mph, or even 7 mph is silly.
Title: Bf 109G-14 performance uprated?
Post by: ink on May 08, 2007, 01:31:43 AM
i just flew the g-14 tonight for the first time in awhile it truly is a great plane.i jumped on a low 51d made a few passes then thinking im in hurri started turning with him he gave me solution i took it, he fell out of the sky,
  shortly after i was up about 6k a second 51d droppin out of the sky at my 7 high,i spotted him just in time i nosed down picked up a little more speed then pulled back with hard rudder he missed, i wepped climed, banked had a short turning fight, got position he ran, i suk at targeting skillz so he escaped but caught em over his base and killed em, along with one other, landed 3 killz.ive flown the hurri so much, this things like a rocket.
     this game rocks
Title: Bf 109G-14 performance uprated?
Post by: gripen on May 08, 2007, 03:40:42 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Bruno

Which is roughly (3500 kg). This is the weight of a G-14 with gongolas:

652km/h at FTH Bf-109G14/U4 with Gondolawaffen (gondolas) weighing 3501 kg


These seem to be from the A/IV/141/44. There is a a note in the previous page (A/IV/140/44) which says that the compressibility effects ("Macheinfluss") are not accounted in the calculation and that causes 10km/h (or 15km/h, difficult to read because my copy is rather bad)  performance loss at 650km/h.
Title: Bf 109G-14 performance uprated?
Post by: Wmaker on May 08, 2007, 10:17:06 AM
The weight in the HTC-webpages lists too high weight, but the weight is correct in the game itself.
Title: Bf 109G-14 performance uprated?
Post by: Krusty on May 08, 2007, 10:18:20 AM
Gan the G-14 carry a bomb? Perhaps the "max weight" is with gondolas, 30mm, full fuel, and a 500kg bomb?
Title: Bf 109G-14 performance uprated?
Post by: Wmaker on May 08, 2007, 10:23:31 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Krusty
Gan the G-14 carry a bomb? Perhaps the "max weight" is with gondolas, 30mm, full fuel, and a 500kg bomb?


Weight in the game with 20mm hub cannon, gondolas and 100% fuel: 7647lbs

Same configuration but 30mm cannon: 7760lbs
Title: Bf 109G-14 performance uprated?
Post by: Krusty on May 08, 2007, 10:28:18 AM
Ah, well there ya go, I guess... 7700 as listed on main page includes max options without centerline being used, I guess.
Title: Bf 109G-14 performance uprated?
Post by: Wmaker on May 08, 2007, 10:38:22 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Krusty
Ah, well there ya go, I guess... 7700 as listed on main page includes max options without centerline being used, I guess.


When I was referring to "too high" weight in the HTC-pages I mean it compared to other planes, 109s for example...their weight is listed in the default configuration.
Title: Bf 109G-14 performance uprated?
Post by: Krusty on May 08, 2007, 10:46:28 AM
I'm sure they'd correct the webpage if you sent them an e-mail explaining it.
Title: Bf 109G-14 performance uprated?
Post by: Bruno on May 08, 2007, 01:00:54 PM
Quote
These seem to be from the A/IV/141/44. There is a a note in the previous page (A/IV/140/44) which says that the compressibility effects ("Macheinfluss") are not accounted in the calculation and that causes 10km/h (or 15km/h, difficult to read because my copy is rather bad) performance loss at 650km/h.


I think you right - I will a look later when I get home...
Title: Bf 109G-14 performance uprated?
Post by: Denniss on May 09, 2007, 04:51:20 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Krusty
Gan the G-14 carry a bomb? Perhaps the "max weight" is with gondolas, 30mm, full fuel, and a 500kg bomb?


Bf 109G (and all earlier, not sure about 109K) was only able to carry a 250 kg bomb on the centerline rack
Title: Bf 109G-14 performance uprated?
Post by: Xasthur on May 09, 2007, 07:24:41 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Denniss
Bf 109G (and all earlier, not sure about 109K) was only able to carry a 250 kg bomb on the centerline rack


109K cannot carry bombs, only a DT

You are correct about the 250kg centre-line bomb on the G model. The G-14 definately can carry 250kg, I'm not sure about the others.
Title: Bf 109G-14 performance uprated?
Post by: Krusty on May 09, 2007, 09:46:40 AM
Bah, stupid metric system! I was thinking 500lbs, in my head (how much a 250kg weighs).

Sorry, you're right! Doesn't matter much though, as that wasn't the issue with max weight, it seems.
Title: Bf 109G-14 performance uprated?
Post by: hitech on May 09, 2007, 10:56:41 AM
Krusty: We announce all changes in the read me to flight models.
Title: Bf 109G-14 performance uprated?
Post by: Krusty on May 09, 2007, 11:26:24 AM
Yes, I was kidding :aok
Title: Bf 109G-14 performance uprated?
Post by: Squire on May 09, 2007, 11:32:02 AM
I have to agree, the constant debates about +/- 5 mph are pointless and well within margins of error, modelling, and individual a/c in RL. It matters not at all really. You cant expect absolutes matched to every quote from every test flight, ect.
Title: Bf 109G-14 performance uprated?
Post by: Denniss on May 09, 2007, 05:02:06 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Xasthur
109K cannot carry bombs, only a DT

You are correct about the 250kg centre-line bomb on the G model. The G-14 definately can carry 250kg, I'm not sure about the others.


For sure was the Bf 109K able to carry a 250 kg bomb with R1 (Rüstsatz 1) or four 50kg ones with R2.