Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Benny Moore on May 07, 2007, 08:24:38 PM
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We have the P-38J-15-LO in Aces High, as that was the last block to be produced without dive flaps or boosted ailerons. Now, even the heavier P-38J-25-LO was still something like forty pounds lighter than the P-38L - probably due to the engines. In Aces High II, the P-38J and P-38L are exactly the same weight. Since we have a J-15, should there not be a difference between the two of about two hundred pounds, one way or the other?
People keep asking me which P-38 turns better, P-38J or P-38L. I know many swear that the J does, but not only can I not feel it but the in-game charts do not support it (nor do those at Netaces).
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Bumped because its a good question.
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I don't have an answer, per se.
I do have a response. Similar to folks firing off the rear gun ammo on the 110 or firing off the cowl MG ammo on the 190s...
"Do you really think that 200 lbs is going to make that much of a difference on a 12,000lb plane?"
I don't.
EDIT: P.S. the 2000 rounds of 50cal alone come to 620 lbs. The 150 Hispano rounds come up to 90 lbs. The fuel itself comes out to 6 lbs per gallon. Burn off 33gal and you've just saved 200lbs.
Hell, 200 lbs is a drop in the very large bucket.
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Originally posted by Krusty
I don't have an answer, per se.
I do have a response. Similar to folks firing off the rear gun ammo on the 110 or firing off the cowl MG ammo on the 190s...
"Do you really think that 200 lbs is going to make that much of a difference on a 12,000lb plane?"
I don't.
EDIT: P.S. the 2000 rounds of 50cal alone come to 620 lbs. The 150 Hispano rounds come up to 90 lbs. The fuel itself comes out to 6 lbs per gallon. Burn off 33gal and you've just saved 200lbs.
Hell, 200 lbs is a drop in the very large bucket.
:lol
I am glad you aren't a pilot. 200 lounds of weight is pretty huge especially when you look at the moment arm on that ammo placement vs. the CG...
Ohh, I forgot, you know "all".... :rolleyes:
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bodhi now behave lol
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See my sig. Bodhi doesn't know how.
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Actually two hundred pounds will make the difference in a duel with fliers of roughly equal skill. I had a few friendly Spitfire duels Sonic22 the other day. When I took 25% more fuel than him, I consistantly lost, but when I dropped the extra weight, I started winning as much as I lost. Since a Spitfire carries 85 gallons, the difference in weight was only about 125 pounds. But it made a noticeable difference each time.
But that's not the point. I'm not particularly concerned about the performance; the problem is that the P-38 has a bunch of equipment that the P-38J-15-LO doesn't have, and it should make a difference about two hundred pounds. As it is, I see no reason for anyone to fly the P-38J in the game. I'm not sure whether the J should be lighter than it is currently, or the L be heavier, but I am pretty sure that one of them is incorrect.
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In the sterile conditions of a duel you are hardly discovering which pilot can really fly their craft better.
Besides, most duels are done in the same craft, to make it more of an even keel for the fight.
So, for duels, it doesn't matter.
For other situations, you might as well fly with 25% fuel, if you're so concerned. You'll save a LOT more than 200 lbs.
Then again, same goes for every plane in the game. You want to fly super-light, you have to pay the price (fuel supply). Doesn't matter if the P38 is 200lbs lighter than the one next to it, because the one next to it could have a lot less fuel, or the spit it's up against could have full fuel and a full slipper, who knows?
I'm just saying, it's a drop in a very big bucket.
EDIT: I'm all for fixing modeling bugs. If it's presented as one. However, I don't think it'll give anybody an edge, if it were fixed. Not any more than firing off the tail guns on the Bf110G (40lbs on a 15000lb frame) or the MG17 ammo on the 190a (170lbs on a 8500lb frame). It's just placebo effect.
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On the contrary; under the equal conditions of a duel - a fair fight - pilot skill is the only deciding factor. And if the same aircraft are used, two hundred pounds means the difference between winning and losing if the pilots are close in skill. Saying "a drop in the bucket" implies that it makes very little difference, but let me ask you a question. If you're in a Spitfire with three quarters fuel, and encounter another Spitfire with equal energy, would you rather he have 25% fuel or 75%? Would you then care to claim still that two hundred pounds is a little thing?
Again, though, the problem with the P-38 isn't so much winning or losing, it's about it being incorrect and about there being no reason to fly the P-38J instead of the P-38L. Right now, the P-38J is exactly the same as the P-38L, but with worse roll and dive. It should be a tradeoff, with the P-38J having worse roll and dive but slightly less weight.
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Originally posted by Benny Moore
On the contrary; under the equal conditions of a duel - a fair fight - pilot skill is the only deciding factor. And if the same aircraft are used, two hundred pounds means the difference between winning and losing if the pilots are close in skill.
Er... no.
Sorry to be blunt, but if both aircraft are the same, and it's ONLY up to pilot skill, then if BOTH aircraft are 200lbs less (thus, still "the same") it's not going to change the outcome at all.
2 pilots in totally sterile conditions flying the same P38L or the same 109f or the same p51d, in your example it doesn't matter if they both have 100% fuel or both have 25% fuel for any fight between them, because it's the pilot.
So, like I said, in a duel it means nothing.
EDIT: I agree there's little reason to have both J and L in this game, almost identical, especially if you chart the top speeds at all altitudes.
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Krusty, maybe I'm misunderstanding you.. (perhaps english is your "second language"?) ...but you just made their point.
The point being that that if the aircraft are the same type/model but the weight is different by a couple of hundred pounds, the lighter a/c will have a performance advantage.
Originally posted by Krusty
Er... no.
Sorry to be blunt, but if both aircraft are the same, and it's ONLY up to pilot skill, then if BOTH aircraft are 200lbs less (thus, still "the same") it's not going to change the outcome at all.
2 pilots in totally sterile conditions flying the same P38L or the same 109f or the same p51d, in your example it doesn't matter if they both have 100% fuel or both have 25% fuel for any fight between them, because it's the pilot.
So, like I said, in a duel it means nothing.
EDIT: I agree there's little reason to have both J and L in this game, almost identical, especially if you chart the top speeds at all altitudes.
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Originally posted by Krusty
EDIT: I agree there's little reason to have both J and L in this game, almost identical, especially if you chart the top speeds at all altitudes.
So says you. The two planes fly completely different.
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Originally posted by Stang
So says you. The two planes fly completely different.
Er... care to describe why you think that, when most folks I've heard have said there's little to choose between the two?
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Also, the Ki-61's wing tanks being emptied make a huge difference.
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Once you get above roughly 300mph the two planes could not be any more different. If you don't think that boosted ailerons and dive flaps fundamentally change the way the plane can be flown, you must not really have ever flown the two 38's in AH.
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Originally posted by Krusty
Er... no.
Sorry to be blunt, but if both aircraft are the same, and it's ONLY up to pilot skill, then if BOTH aircraft are 200lbs less (thus, still "the same") it's not going to change the outcome at all.
I was speaking of an engagement where both aircraft are the same type of airplane (for instance, both P-38L's or both Spitfires Mark I's), but one is carrying two hundred pounds less than the other. Why would I use an example of two airplanes of the same weight, when I'm trying to explain that a difference of two hundred pounds is quite noticeable? By "difference" I mean "difference in weight between two otherwise identical aircraft."
By the way, most of my duels involve a mixed match. However, even then, two hundred pounds extra on one of the ships will always be a large disadvantage (unless that ship is significantly better than the lighter one). The is particularly true if the duel is a relatively close dogfight and not a prolonged, chase-type energy fight.
Stang, what we're saying is that there's no reason to use the J currently, because the J and L are identical in the game except that the L has dive flaps and power ailerons. And they shouldn't be.
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Well Benny you weren't clear about that. You made it seem as if the duel was the typical "same plane" setup.
If it's not, then any number of factors could change it. If you're figthing a L in a J, sure maybe 200lbs could make a difference.
If you're fighting a spixteen in a J, 200lbs won't help any more than the average weight fluctuations of any fight.
If you're fighting a P51D in a J, 200lbs still won't help any more than average fluctuations.
Getting bounced early in a sortie vs. flying to the enemy base makes more of a difference because of fuel weight, IMO.
Like I said, I'd like to see things fixed, 109s, 190s, 38s, mossies, doesn't matter what plane, but IMO it really won't change the plane performance.
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Should the J be lighter?
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Originally posted by Stang
Once you get above roughly 300mph the two planes could not be any more different. If you don't think that boosted ailerons and dive flaps fundamentally change the way the plane can be flown, you must not really have ever flown the two 38's in AH.
I disagree. The ailerons do make a difference in roll rate, sure.... But for the most part you're never going to do effective rolling scissors at 350mph. I mean, if you're coming in that fast you're probably in a dive or in a BFM, which means you don't need to really roll that quickly.
The dive flaps are handy at times, but still, aside from compression, they don't really help too much.
So, there ARE differences, but they have almost identical speed, climb, performance, the only difference being roll rate above 300mph.
I personally don't think that's "completely different".
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(I just edited my previous post to add more, Krusty, I didn't realize you'd already read and replied.)
Stang, I don't know whether the J should be lighter than it is now or the L should be heavier than it is now, but the J should definitely be lighter than the L, by all sources. The amount of weight depends on which production block the J is. If I remember correctly, the P-38J-15-LO (what we have in game, since it has the 420 gallon tanks, but not the dive flaps and roll boost) was 200 lb. lighter than the P-38L, and the P-38J-25-LO (which was identical to the P-38L except for the engines) was about 40 lb. lighter than the P-38L.
Originally posted by Krusty
If it's not, then any number of factors could change it. If you're figthing a L in a J, sure maybe 200lbs could make a difference.
That's what I mean. Right now, fighting an L in a J is pointless, because they're the same weight and the L rolls and dives better. If it were correctly modelled, however, the J would be 200 pounds lighter and thus would have some advantage over the L to counter the L's advantages of roll and dive. And as I said, that 200 pounds would be noticeable, as noticeable as the difference between a Spitfire with 25% fuel and one with 50% or 75%.
By the way, as a dedicated L flier, I do miss terribly the roll (though I never dive flaps, as I don't like to rely on them) if ever I fly a different P-38. I do a lot of high speed reversals, believe it or not.
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Originally posted by Krusty
EDIT: I agree there's little reason to have both J and L in this game, almost identical, especially if you chart the top speeds at all altitudes.
First of all I have to ask Krusty...how much do you actually the 38s?
There is no way the J and L are identical. Since all I fly are 38s, I can actually see a difference. Many will say, oh there is no difference Ill just take the L so I can pork something.
The L is heavier but handles better with its boosted ailerons. Also if you level flight the J and L, the J is faster. Since the J is lighter, it also climbs better than the L.
Like Stang said there is a difference between the 38s.
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Originally posted by Hoarach
The L is heavier but handles better with its boosted ailerons. Also if you level flight the J and L, the J is faster. Since the J is lighter, it also climbs better than the L.
Look at the stats in the game. They're exactly the same weight in the game.
By the way, in reality, the L was faster since it had the more powerful F-30 engines. But that's another argument for another time.
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What Hoarach says.
As another 38 flyer there are differences between the three. Obviously the G is my favorite, followed by the J then L.
The L is just heavier to me and I have a tougher time riding the edge in the L. That is true to a lesser degree in the J and since I fly the G consistantly I can take that one further to the edge.
Krusty sometimes you just have to let it go.
It would be a bit like me saying all 109s are alike. Why have the G-2, G-6 or G-14, they all fly the same to me.
Why have a 190 A5 and a 190A8. They seem the same to me. And what's the point of the F-8? Why not just take an A-8.
Why all the F4U versions. They fly the same for the most part to me.
Get the point? :) Of course I'd never say it, because I know the LW guys. the Spit drivers and the Corsair drivers have their preferences too, and why not allow for that in the game.
Most of us 38 guys would also love to have the E, F and H, but we can live with what we have. Kinda like the LW guys who don't have exactly the version they want, but live with the multiple variants they can fly, or the Spit drivers who do the same.
Oh, and since I like the history, it makes little sense for me to suggest taking an L in a early 1944 time frame, when it makes perfect sense to take the J.
Maybe that's enough reason to have the correct versions for the correct time frame.
38G covers the 42-early 44 range well
38J covers early 44 well into 45
38L covers late 44 to 45.
All be darned. Old Pyro picked em well to cover just about the entire wartime period where the 38 was in combat. :)
So Krusty, let it go. Think it all the way through next time before you say stupid stuff :)
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Originally posted by Benny Moore
We have the P-38J-15-LO in Aces High, as that was the last block to be produced without dive flaps or boosted ailerons. Now, even the heavier P-38J-25-LO was still something like forty pounds lighter than the P-38L - probably due to the engines. In Aces High II, the P-38J and P-38L are exactly the same weight. Since we have a J-15, should there not be a difference between the two of about two hundred pounds, one way or the other?
People keep asking me which P-38 turns better, P-38J or P-38L. I know many swear that the J does, but not only can I not feel it but the in-game charts do not support it (nor do those at Netaces).
Thought it was a J-10 myself since the J-15s were the NMF birds while the J-10s were the last of the OD/Gray.
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Hmmm, you could be right; I thought that the J-10 didn't have the 420 gallon tanks. I have Bodie's fine book handy, I'll check.
What's NMF and OD? I'm terrible at acronyms.
[edit]I can't find it.[/i]
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Originally posted by Guppy35
Krusty sometimes you just have to let it go.
It would be a bit like me saying all 109s are alike. Why have the G-2, G-6 or G-14, they all fly the same to me.
You're missing the point.
Do a speed plot test for the P38 L and the J, do sea level, 5k, 10k, 15k, and 20k... The speeds are identical except in one small area where they are only a few MPH different from each other.
I know this. I tested this quite some time ago, and even posted about it here. I believe several folks read the thread, as somebody said "Hrm.. I guess that mans we have X P38J instead of Y, which would have been better".
The speeds are almost identical. Benny's shown the weights are identical.
The only real difference is the ailerons, and yes I admit better roll can help a plane, but at slower speeds these boosted ailerons don't help any more than unboosted ailerons in the other 38 version we have.
You miss my point entirely. I'm not saying "the LA5 and the LA7 are almost identical, why do we have both" -- I'm saying "the ONLY difference between the J and L is boosted ailerons and dive flaps" (not counting ord options). It's almost entirely the same aircraft, as modeled now.
P.S. in response to Hoararch: I'm not a self-proclaimed expert or anything like that, but I've flown them all. I like the G because it has no WEP and turns a bit better, but have flown all 3 enough to not be totally newbish.
EDIT: P.S. Guppy, "Sometimes you just have to let it go" -- let what go? All I've said is stuff you can independently verify. I'm not even talking about the real aircraft, only about THIS GAME. In this game you can check the info out for yourself. I fail to see what "I have to let go" -- I've not been doing anything that warrants such a crack.
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Ya know what? Forget it. You folks wanna pretend the L is faster than the J, go for it.
I don't need to take crap for pointing out basic things that YOU can check for yourselves.
You wanna pretend one is faster and one is lighter, I don't care! Believe the urban myth. I didn't want to start some BS pissing contest.
Original point was: taking 200lbs from a plane weighing over 17000lbs won't do jack to help it in almost any situation. If you're THAT concerned about weight you'll shoot off all 50 cal rounds before you enter the fight, never fight with more than 25% internal fuel, and never have more than 1 fight per sortie. Knock yerselves out!
EDIT: fixed weight based on AH info page.
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Originally posted by Benny Moore
Hmmm, you could be right; I thought that the J-10 didn't have the 420 gallon tanks. I have Bodie's fine book handy, I'll check.
What's NMF and OD? I'm terrible at acronyms.
[edit]I can't find it.[/i]
Painted birds vs natural metal finish birds. Of course the painted birds weighed more :)
One of the reasons beyond production ease, that they removed the paint was the weight penalty. It gave a few more mph to be unpainted. It was lighter :)
Not sure how much the paint on a P38J weighed however.
Any pound of weight saved, to a pilot meant better performance. So that 200 pounds you speak of, would make a difference. Photo of the first production J-15 in Bodie's book shows it unpainted NMF bird so the painted 38s stopped in the J-10 series which if the paint job is accurate on the AH bird would point to it being a J-10.
Lots of instances of J-10s flying right to the end of the war with the 474th FG 9th AF on the continent. This was alongside the L-1s they got towards the end.
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I will add one bit of info that may or may not help: The skin is not necessarily an indicator of the model in the game. The data used to program the model was in place well before the skinner chose which skin to put on it, and the two may not coincide with each other.
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Originally posted by Krusty
I will add one bit of info that may or may not help: The skin is not necessarily an indicator of the model in the game. The data used to program the model was in place well before the skinner chose which skin to put on it, and the two may not coincide with each other.
Understood, and there are instances of J-15s painted in theater.
I'm only speculating based on the choice of an OD bird for the default and if it's geared towards CT it would have been J-10s to start with the ETO 38 groups, outside of those early Hs.
J-10 seemed the closest compromise to not having the H too for CT.
Again since it's not stated anywhere, it's entirely possible it's based on a J-15.
Did find a photo of one of the first NMF birds and it's a J-10
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Originally posted by Krusty
You're missing the point.
Do a speed plot test for the P38 L and the J, do sea level, 5k, 10k, 15k, and 20k... The speeds are identical except in one small area where they are only a few MPH different from each other.
I know this. I tested this quite some time ago, and even posted about it here. I believe several folks read the thread, as somebody said "Hrm.. I guess that mans we have X P38J instead of Y, which would have been better".
The speeds are almost identical. Benny's shown the weights are identical.
The only real difference is the ailerons, and yes I admit better roll can help a plane, but at slower speeds these boosted ailerons don't help any more than unboosted ailerons in the other 38 version we have.
You miss my point entirely. I'm not saying "the LA5 and the LA7 are almost identical, why do we have both" -- I'm saying "the ONLY difference between the J and L is boosted ailerons and dive flaps" (not counting ord options). It's almost entirely the same aircraft, as modeled now.
P.S. in response to Hoararch: I'm not a self-proclaimed expert or anything like that, but I've flown them all. I like the G because it has no WEP and turns a bit better, but have flown all 3 enough to not be totally newbish.
EDIT: P.S. Guppy, "Sometimes you just have to let it go" -- let what go? All I've said is stuff you can independently verify. I'm not even talking about the real aircraft, only about THIS GAME. In this game you can check the info out for yourself. I fail to see what "I have to let go" -- I've not been doing anything that warrants such a crack.
BTW Krusty, I was responding more specifically to this quote of yours upthread.
"EDIT: I agree there's little reason to have both J and L in this game, almost identical, especially if you chart the top speeds at all altitudes."
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Originally posted by Krusty
See my sig. Bodhi doesn't know how.
LOL, and you can not tell the truth, exagerate all the time, and are well regarded as a "know-it-all"....
I think I have the better end of the stick, especially compared to you. :rofl
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Oh Krusty...the J is the one that is faster. Many of the 475th and 80th fly the J and when I try to wing I always slowly fall back because in AH the L is slower than the J
And Corky...speak for yourself. I need my 38H and I wont rest until I have it!!!!!!!! :noid :mad: :noid :mad:
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The original question still remains, and it is a good one:
go into the hangar, take both the -J and -L and on your E6B they will have exactly the same weight.
I always felt the -J handles better in a stallfight, but that's not only subjective but also has nothing to do with the question.
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Originally posted by Benny Moore
I was speaking of an engagement where both aircraft are the same type of airplane (for instance, both P-38L's or both Spitfires Mark I's), but one is carrying two hundred pounds less than the other. identical aircraft."
That plane is not going to have a significant advantage over the P-38L that is 200 pounds heavier in AH.
For example, the time I entered your room and fought you, I had had taken off with 75% fuel since I had the assumption you were using the MA fuel 2x multiplier and am assuming that you either upped with 25% or 50% fuel, yet I was still able to maneuver for the kill within 2 turns despite having the heavier fuel load. But as will all things with life YMMV.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by Krusty
The dive flaps are handy at times, but still, aside from compression, they don't really help too much.
Wrong but then you haven't had much experience in flying the P-38L and most likely haven't really done any research in how the dive flaps were used in real life by Lightning pilots so I'll over look your incorrect assertion.
The dive flaps can also be used as high speed maneuvering flaps above 300mph IAS, just as they were used in real life by Lightning drivers.
ack-ack
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Its 410 gallons. J-20-LO was the last block without dive flaps. I agree that the AH J is probably the -15-LO.
If you look at the USAAF charts, the L chart is just a copy of the J with the same data. Appearently the army thought the weight difference was inconcequential. With sources often giving the same weights, that is how they modeled it.
I personally would like to see the J be lighter by the correct amount even though it is not significant. I actually looked into this previously, but stalled out due to needing more sources for context. As it is, I think can account for about 165 lbs of basic empty difference that there should be between the J-15 and the L. There are probably a few more miscellaneous pounds also. If I happen to get enough sources together that Im confident in being accurate, Id be happy to submit the info.
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
That plane is not going to have a significant advantage over the P-38L that is 200 pounds heavier in AH.
For example, the time I entered your room and fought you, I had had taken off with 75% fuel since I had the assumption you were using the MA fuel 2x multiplier and am assuming that you either upped with 25% or 50% fuel, yet I was still able to maneuver for the kill within 2 turns despite having the heavier fuel load. But as will all things with life YMMV.
You're never going to tire of reminding me of that, are you. It happens that you won because you were better, and because my hands were in splints at the time (not to mention paining me greatly). Had we been in the same approximate skill bracket, you'd have lost badly because you took the heavier load.
I also recall that you consistently ignored my later challenges to a friendly rematch. That's fine, as I don't want an ego duel, which your refusal has proven it to be. I'd love to respect you because you are a great 38 flier, but I just can't because you're inconsiderate.
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No more crying and whining :)
P-38J and P-38L both have same weight...
17,000lbs
- Full fuel (100%)
- full ammo (2000 rounds .50cal, 150 rounds 20mm cannon)
* Confirmed by using the EB6
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Originally posted by Benny Moore
You're never going to tire of reminding me of that, are you. It happens that you won because you were better, and because my hands were in splints at the time (not to mention paining me greatly). Had we been in the same approximate skill bracket, you'd have lost badly because you took the heavier load.
I also recall that you consistently ignored my later challenges to a friendly rematch. That's fine, as I don't want an ego duel, which your refusal has proven it to be. I'd love to respect you because you are a great 38 flier, but I just can't because you're inconsiderate.
I'm sorry if you think I was pouring salt on the wound but I really don't recall ever really mentioning our fights at all in any threads, so to accuse me of "never tiring to remind you" is out of line.
I never declined anything, so please again, don't start stretching the truth. I rarely get to fly in the day time as my job sometimes has me working 12 to 13 hours a day and the only time I really get to play is at night, usually after 11pm. So that's the reason why I haven't been in your freeloader arena as you never have it up at night and I think you recently "banned" me from your freeloader arena as well. *shrug*
I hate to burst your bubble but 200 pounds is not going to give you any significant advantage in maneuvering that it gives you an edge, just like taking the lighter ammo load in the P-38 will not improve the maneuvering performance of the Lightning over the full ammo load.
Remember, you're not the only one that has flown the Lightning and some of us have been playing this game a tad longer than you have and some like me, all their fighter stick time has been in the P-38. We know all the tricks.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by 1K3
P-38J and P-38L both have same weight...
* Confirmed by using the EB6
Did you actually read any of the thread? Like the starting post maybe?
Originally posted by Krusty
EDIT: fixed weight based on AH info page.
Which has errors by the way. It has the J internal fuel as 300 gallons, which is only correct for the ten P38J-1-LOs produced. The rest of the J series were 410 gallons. The loaded weight listed on the same page is with two 165 gallon drop tanks, while the G and L pages list "loaded weight" as internal only load. (posted that in bug reports long ago)
Originally posted by Krusty
I'm saying "the ONLY difference between the J and L is boosted ailerons and dive flaps"
Just that upgrade weighs 115 lbs... Add 20 for L structural reinforcements...Add another 20 for the L standard radar installation...ect. Those things add up. Not to much, but they do weigh something. That's all Benny is saying.
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No way does the 38 J and L feel the same (and i only fly 38s)
J seems to accelerate a tad faster (top speed are similar for both but J gets there slightly quicker)
Below 150mph the L feels heavier. Both roll the same IMHO.
Above 250mph though the L rolls like a 190, but the J feels like a 109.
I think they both turn just as well, but if I were nitpicking I think the J turns slightly better instantaneously while the L maintains sustained turn rate for longer.
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Hell, 200 lbs is a drop in the very large bucket.
200 pounds in ANY aircraft is a LOT. period.
you wouldn't take off over gross weight in a p51 would ya? i think it'd be a really short flight if ya did.....and not a fun ending either......:rolleyes:
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Hi,
according to this comparison page our J and L are exactly the same.
http://gonzoville.com/ahcharts/index.php
Isnt it up to date??
Of course the rollratio alone make a significant different, specialy while highspeed manouvers. Its much more easy to make dive attacks in the L, noone is able to roll away and its so nice easy to evade attacks at this speeds, by using the rollratio, while the J is pretty much stiff, a rather bad highspeed attacker but a easy target.
Greetings,
Knegel
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That's what I've been saying here since the first post. Right now, there's no reason to fly the J in Aces High II, since it's exactly the same as the L but with worse roll and dive. Realistically, it should be a bit lighter, and that would give people a reason to fly it instead of the P-38L. Both realism and balance would improve if the two had their historical weight difference.
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Originally posted by Benny Moore
That's what I've been saying here since the first post. Right now, there's no reason to fly the J in Aces High II, since it's exactly the same as the L but with worse roll and dive. Realistically, it should be a bit lighter, and that would give people a reason to fly it instead of the P-38L. Both realism and balance would improve if the two had their historical weight difference.
It must be a 38J state of mind then, as lots of guys fly the J and seem to do quite well.
And in that same state of mind idea, the 38J flies differently then the L does when I've flown them.
If for some reason I give up my beloved 38G for a flight it's the J I take because it feels closer to the G then the L does.
Entirely possible it's all in my head, but I'd swear they 'fly' differntly :)
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Me too Dan. I used to almost exclusively flew the J and since getting the new comp Ive switched to the L because I like "Putt Putt Maru" in highres. The J and the L definitely fly different despite what others say.