Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Nangleator on May 10, 2007, 11:42:08 PM
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Love the Corsair, but is the freakin' rudder reversed on landing or something?
Every landing but one: Plane starts to veer in one direction. Rudder to counter it. Plane ignores rudder. Plane ground loops. Many parts break off. I end up much closer to the ground, but perhaps I'm still on concrete and it counts as a landing.
I've had one successful runway landing in an F4U.
I tried using rudder the opposite way, and it didn't make it worse or better.
Do you need thrust to keep the rudder working? Or do you use differential braking? Or do I fire guns on alternate wings for yaw control? Or lean my pilot to left and right?
I mean... geez! I've destroyed more of those planes than the Japanese did.
Did they invent the tail hook so a pilot could keep a Corsair's tail behind him?
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If you use rudder pedals, make sure one of the brakes is not spiking. I went through a bout with that and it was difficult to overcome until I realised I had to push the pedals forward on the toe (like I do in a real aircraft) to ensure a brake is not dragging. The Corsair is very prone to instability when on the ground owing to the ability of it's multi disc brakes being very effective and the result of braking one wheel especially while the tail is on the ground.
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Could be a few things...
You might be landing a little fast. Notice the rudder trim if you're using Combat Trim? There's about 5 degrees deflection of right rudder and down, right aileron, same as trim for takeoff (full power). You can neutralize trim for both manually, and she'll be more docile.
You can land slightly on mains first, then lock tailwheel (stick back) quickly. Or, perhaps your rudder scaling is not set up well for your controller. All controllers are a little different.
Good luck!
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The solution to this problem is to get the tail wheel down quickly. Practice 3 point landings. As soon as the aircraft settles, ease the stick back about half way to lock the tail wheel and the Corsair will track straight.
My regards,
Widewing
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F4U rudder authority doesn't really kick in until you're 100-150mph, below that it's not very responsive (tho most craft aren't, either). The Corsair has a VERY strong tendency to veer left on the ground due to engine torque.
As WW suggested, try and get all three wheels on the ground at once. This takes a good approach angle, tho.
If you're coming in "hot" try this:
Get the gear down ASAP. They make wonderful airbrakes.
Once the F4U's rudder becomes effective, it REMAINS effective at higher speeds than most aircraft. Start skidding the plane to get your speed down.
Use manual trim. Combat Trim IMO makes the aircraft far more difficult to control on takeoff/landing. As I deploy flaps I start trimming the nose DOWN, especially if I'm coming in fast, to counter the sudden popping up of the nose at each notch (often I end up with elevators trimmed full down by the time I land). Watch your gun drift indicator on the sight (That's the little bubble). Keep it centered. If the bubble is to the left give a little left rudder trim, repeat as necessary if it's too the right. Trim your ailerons to keep the wings level--in my experience the closer to level your wings are on touch-down the better your chance of getting her down under control. It's REALLY beneficial to have manual trim controls mapped to your stick and/or throttle.
Use rudder, rather than bank, to make fine corrections to your approach. Use bank only if you need to make larger adjustments.
If you're only able to get the main gear on the ground, let her roll a ways on the two wheels and use rudder and differential braking to keep the nose straight as you reduce speed. Get the tail wheel down as soon as possible and hold back on the stick this makes it easier to control your taxi. Do this BEFORE applying full brakes on both wheels (until then, I generally give light left brake, and more to the right brake with rudder in that direction, as again the Corsair's natural tendency is to pull left on the ground). Alternate left/right brake as needed.
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I found this video, and put it on my i-Pod, as part of my series of training films. I dont really remember much of it as its been several months, but I think you might find some usefull information:
World War Two F4U Training Film (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1056703518162002454&q=ww2&hl=en)
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Classic groundloop.
The dangerous prop forces drives the unlocked tail wheel mad, and when you try to correct it with rudder input, the moment the tail wheel contacts the ground it swerves the plane around in a drastic overcompensation.
Like WW said, the solution is to practice a classic low-speed, 3-point landing as straight as possible, and then pull back on the stick more than 1/4th so the tail wheel lock function kicks in.
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Just turn off engine after touch down.
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Use the new trim command before you touch down. Default its the . (period)
This TAMES the beast in the F4u like you won't believe.
Also widewing is right, you have to get the tail down asap to get the tailwheel for steering. Rudder alone simply doesn't have enough authority at slower speeds to counter torque.
So hit that trim . . a couple of times once everythings out. Then slight back pressure on stick once it stops flying to encourage the tail to DROP.
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Thanks for all the replies. You've convinced me to a) get rudder pedals; b) get the tail down faster; and c) use differential braking.
I already knew to shut the engine down.
In real life I had a little trick for those extra hot landings. (I flew tricycle gear planes, thank God.) I would start to brake before the nose wheel was down. I know, you're not supposed to do that, but I was able to modulate the braking and elevator so that I'd keep the nose up. Extra braking time + drag from the high AOA. Also, my runway was 26' wide, so I know how to use rudder, at least in real life.
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Actually, the one advice that'd get rid of groundloops in totality would be for you to have patience, and take the landing approach in a more discipled manner. The task of fiddling with rudders, brakes, or getting the tail down is all minimized when you guide the plane down at an ideal speed and ideal angle.
Flaps down, throttle lowered, 3-point landing at 90mph or so, and nothing will bug you anymore. However, a 2-wheel landing at 180mph is going to do something to your plane, and the chances are its not gonna be good.
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Originally posted by Kweassa
... have patience ... a more discipled manner...
Dude, there's people trying to shoot me out there.
:confused:
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Don't use gear... Belly landing makes things a lot easier.
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Originally posted by Fianna
Don't use gear... Belly landing makes things a lot easier.
I belly land everytime if there are cons around the field. Ya stop alot faster and the vulchers miss you.
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Even with all this great advice posted, if you STILL manage to start fishtailing the plane after touching down, you can always add a little power while using a little differential braking to counterbalance the torque, then when you get slower, rudder authority will take over.
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Originally posted by Kweassa
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<--- [Cries in a corner] "I have such terrible memories of that plane..."