Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: DeadlyDilemm on May 12, 2007, 07:13:25 PM
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Which is better in a dogfight?
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What kind of dogfight?
Click Here (http://forums.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=203818)
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Low altitude.
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Oh, thanks for the link.
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Unless the 109 is flown by someone with no arms, the 109 should win every time.
a 109 E might have a tough time against the 190s if they're not stupid and don't try to turn fight.
Especially in the case of late-war 109s, the 109 should fly circles around any 190.
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No contest. 109 owns 190 in 1 vs 1 fight.
In 10 vs 10 furball plus team tactics (for example), 190 stands a chance.
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It has happened IRL. The result was a draw between 109G14 and 190A8. It was Julius Meimberg vs. Egon Meyer IIRC. The AH A8 does not perform that well, though...
-C+
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Wow, that is interesting information, Charge.
Thanks.
The AH 190 A8 is a total b|tch. I love her to death, but she is a *****-demon.
:D
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Originally posted by Xasthur
...stupid and don't try to turn fight...
Lol! That happened to me yesterday, I pwn3d this guy all the time for the same reason that he just turned-fighted his 190 (D9 I guess) What a shame =]
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I really like to go really low and fast in the A8 in the middle of a furball. The firepower and rollrate can really work well for you, as long as you keep the speed up and dont force it to turn more than you should.
Enter furball low, use the awesome firepower and do snapshots. Exit furball on the other side without climbing, and do a gentle turn to maintain speed and go back in.
The 109 is fun too, but i like it better at medium to high alt.
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Allied pilots usually refer to the 190 as the more dangerous opponent. My guess is that due to the firepower and excellent high-speed roll-rate and handling, a 190 in yer mirror means you were as good as dead before you could break properly, or the 190 would follow you into the break.
In AH, while flying a Spitfire, I will just pull the stick0- no use rolling. But a sharp vertical will make the 190 want to stall if following...
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Originally posted by Angus
My guess is that due to the firepower and excellent high-speed roll-rate and handling, a 190 in yer mirror means you were as good as dead before you could break properly, or the 190 would follow you into the break.
I don't know if 300mph is considered hi-speed but 190s have bad hi speed stall @ that speed.
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They COULD have!! Thats a big different and actually is a sign for a excellent working elevator. Normal experienced pilots in general dont got into a highspeed stall, same like normal experienced Spitpilots didnt black out, though they could by easy, same like experienced P38 and P47 pilots normaly didnt dived to death.
Unfortunatelly the AH190 miss a realistic highspeed upzoom(e-bleed), even the underpowered 109F and 109G6 outzoom the 2050hp 190A8 at sea level. The inertia out of 1200-1600kg more weight and at least 500hp more power should do the job by easy.
The 190A8 have the realistic bad climb due to the high weight, but miss the smal E-bleed.
The 190A8 should have a better upzoom at low alt than the P51, similar weight, but more power and for sure better than the 109F,G2 and G6.
In RL the 190A did own this 109īs in low/medium altitude. They was faster, had a better dive acceleration(more weight and power), they was more manouverable at higher speeds, they had more firepower and did provide a better visibility for the pilot.
With at least a bit altitude the 190 pilot could evade every 109 attack, by using its rolladvantage, dive acceleration and Vmax, while the 109 pilot in disadvantage had a real problem.
Unfortunately high wingloaded planes in AH create a incredible E-bleed, so the extreme power and intertia advantage dont dont show up.
It need a very good 190A8 pilot to win vs a 109G in AH, its almost impossible to get into a advanced position, even with 2k distance and a initial speed advantage, the 109F/G2/6 will outzoom the 190A8, as result the 190 pilot only can run away or try to loop around to go into a headon, where he have rather good odds to win, though its not a nice way.
The best was to get a shot is to let the 109 attack in highspeed(the 190 need to be fast as well), then the pilot can use the cellent highspeed manouverability to let the enemy overhoot and to manouver behind him. But this need a rather good pilot. Though this also work excelent vs Temps and Spits and other planes that get stiff alerons at highspeed.
Greetings,
Knegel
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"Unfortunatelly the AH190 miss a realistic highspeed upzoom(e-bleed), even the underpowered 109F and 109G6 outzoom the 2050hp 190A8 at sea level. The inertia out of 1200-1600kg more weight and at least 500hp more power should do the job by easy."
Yep!
"In RL the 190A did own this 109īs in low/medium altitude. They was faster, had a better dive acceleration(more weight and power), they was more manouverable at higher speeds, they had more firepower and did provide a better visibility for the pilot.
With at least a bit altitude the 190 pilot could evade every 109 attack, by using its rolladvantage, dive acceleration and Vmax, while the 109 pilot in disadvantage had a real problem. "
And Yep too. Not to mention that the 190 is easier on the pilot, - some minutes of jostling around will exhaust pilots.
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It was interesting to fly FW in WW2OL. It handles pretty much like Knegel said. In slow speed it feels heavy in turns but once you get it to proper speed you can make moderately tight turns and the plane will not slow down and it feels very agile, but if you make a too tight turn and let the speed decay the handling gets worse the slower you go. As somebody said of FW: " it likes to go fast and stay there".
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PS. "Not to mention that the 190 is easier on the pilot, - some minutes of jostling around will exhaust pilots." In the duel I mentioned they both had to be lifted out of the cockpit so it wasn't really that much easier for Meyer in FW. ;)
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I like both, the 109's and the 190's.
My favorites are the 109-K4 and the 190-D9. That just because of speed. With this planes I don'T have to let the runstang run. I catch them from their six.
My K/D rate is normaly in a 190-D9 better than in a 109-K4 and I know the reason.
I never take a turnfight with the 190 and I never are at lo deck fight with this plane. And that is simply the reason that I won't get picked so often from a high speed tiffy or runstang.
In a K4 i like turnfights. Many people underestimate the K4 in turnfight. If I really come in trouble during a turnfight the K4 allows me to leave the fight by its good acceleration. So i get some distance, outclimb the foe and come back to the fight with a good starting position.
But however, the K4 is not as half as good for bnz like the D9.
And that is what the D9 do best, bnz.
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Originally posted by Angus
"Unfortunatelly the AH190 miss a realistic highspeed upzoom(e-bleed), even the underpowered 109F and 109G6 outzoom the 2050hp 190A8 at sea level. The inertia out of 1200-1600kg more weight and at least 500hp more power should do the job by easy."
Maybe it's because the 109F and G2/G6 we have in AH is too fast at low alt and climbs too fast. For example, the AH 109G-2 is just as fast as the 190A-5 at full power + WEP at all altitudes. In real life 190A totally owned 109Gs at low to medium altitudes.
I read somewhere that the mid-war era 109G-2/G-6's power were limited only to 1.3 ata/2600 rpm throughout the mid war, the 1.42 ata was cleared in late war.
I also think that our 109F-4, a 1941-era plane, is like the old spit 5 with +16 boost (a 1942-era plane). The 109F-4 with 1.42 ata boost appeared in mid war. In my opinion 109F-4 should be boosted down like what HTC did to the old +16 boost spit 5 to make 109F a 1941 plane.
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Originally posted by Charge
It was interesting to fly FW in WW2OL. It handles pretty much like Knegel said. In slow speed it feels heavy in turns but once you get it to proper speed you can make moderately tight turns and the plane will not slow down and it feels very agile, but if you make a too tight turn and let the speed decay the handling gets worse the slower you go. As somebody said of FW: " it likes to go fast and stay there".
but here... it flip-flops even at 300mph:lol
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I think we should steal some of those anti-gravity flaps the P-47s are installed with, and stick them on the 190s... so we can do the flapfest thingy in 190s too.
On the other hand, I'd probably settle for raising the permitted limit for the first notch of 190 flaps to a little over 200 IAS...