Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Axis vs Allies => Topic started by: Guppy35 on May 13, 2007, 06:25:22 PM
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Lets go into AvA, take 109s and go in low and make em come down and see if we can change it.
Might have to take some lumps, but who knows. it might be fun :)
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Count me in.
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No Im ganna go fly in the MA the rest of the week since there I can atlease fly something that will have a chance of beating the hordes of spits. I asked OM if there were any slots open for a CM to try to have atlease one guy who flys axis as a CM, but now that its going back to the old JG54 bashing days I think Ill fly the MAs more and more from now on. We swich and fight squadies when numbers are low and the past few days we have been the last ones in the arena fighting 3v3 agenst each other, but I bet you'll say becasue we made everyone else leave. If you want to say AvA is mini MA tell me and Ill start vulching and milking bases then it can really be one. Mabey when you guys stop bashing us when we do something you dont like and then turn around and do the same thing I might want to go back but untill then you can kill squadies.
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Don't recall bashing you. Offered to fly with you in 109s.
Interesting that I found i could hang with the Spit V down low just fine in a G6. had some knockdown drag out fights and won some too and I'm not a 109 driver. I'm guessing you 109 experts could eat them up down low.
If you want to make it work, then we need to change the tone.
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Originally posted by Guppy35
Don't recall bashing you. Offered to fly with you in 109s.
Interesting that I found i could hang with the Spit V down low just fine in a G6. had some knockdown drag out fights and won some too and I'm not a 109 driver. I'm guessing you 109 experts could eat them up down low.
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Ahh yes the guys you were just fighting. From what I seen I think those guys are noobs. and I was almost out turning my 110G with them. You might want to fly agenst people who really dont need to fly them to be good then see how long you last. About the bashing dont worry I can smell it in the air its coming. Just like when I smelled the spitaly coming. Soon skuzzy will be in here locking threads.
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Badboy is a noob? LOL He'd love to hear that.
So what you complaining for then if they're all noobs? You should be able to kill em with ease
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Badboy was the only non noob I seen in there a few mins ago. I dont think you get what Im saying. Most of the guys that were jsut in there were noobs. Wait till AvA regulars get in there and in the spits then up a 109G6 and try to turn with them. Then get back to me.
Im not trying to be an ass. I like and respect you but Iv seen all this many many times before. First theres one or two posts about GJ54 next thing you know skuzzys in here editing posts and locking threads.
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So the answer is for the Axis to have the better birds?
I don't believe that's the key. I still believe it's the tone set.
Not that tough to ask a guy if he wants help. Sure others won't do it initially but with the smaller crowd, the tone can be set easier that this is how it's done in here.
But the long time AvA guys have to make it happen first.
I don't care what I fly against, I just want it to be a fair fight. Spits vs 109s is a fair fight.
And yeah, vets in Spits are gonna hand me my backside as I'm NOT a 109 driver. I don't know it's quirks like you guys do. So if my 109 noobishness can compete with noob Spit drivers, it must be an even deal :)
But I don't mind the challenge to get better.
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Yes a 1v1 spit fight is fun, but when they come in at 13K dive in on you loose all thier speed and sit 400ft off your six while your pull move outa your bellybutton and cant do a thing about it it gets old real fast. For a 109 to even have a chance he needs the speed to B&Z thats one reason I try to be about 2-3K above you guys. Another "fun" fight is when a hi spit over shoots and you somehow get flaps down and trim working and just as you have a shot on him your back into the tower from another 13k spit diving in on your going mach 2 then hiting the air breakes and poping you.
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You are wasting your breath Dan.
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Originally posted by Larry
Yes a 1v1 spit fight is fun, but when they come in at 13K dive in on you loose all thier speed and sit 400ft off your six while your pull move outa your bellybutton and cant do a thing about it it gets old real fast. For a 109 to even have a chance he needs the speed to B&Z thats one reason I try to be about 2-3K above you guys. Another "fun" fight is when a hi spit over shoots and you somehow get flaps down and trim working and just as you have a shot on him your back into the tower from another 13k spit diving in on your going mach 2 then hiting the air breakes and poping you.
I know that feeling from my 38G and multiple 109s.
Again, how do we change the tone.
It's not the aircraft match up, it's the attitude of the pilots flying them
That's why I offered to go in low with you in 109s. The only way we change it, is to NOT play the same stupid game of higher and faster.
Eventually they'll get bored up there and come down where the fights are.
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Originally posted by Grits
You are wasting your breath Dan.
No, actually he isn't. Some good can come out of all this, I think.
First, TrueKill is carrying a lot of past history with him, history that really doesn't include most of the people who fly AvA these days. I can understand why he has a chip on his shoulder, but it's a new crowd, and it would be nice if he would lose the chip.
Second, it's good to see people like Dan, Shifty, Bug and Soulyss coming back here after having had a bad experience or two. There is a lot of basic good in the AvA. We need to work with that, and suffer through the bad.
Third, because some squad leaders and other influential types have made an effort to get their people into the AvA, we DO have some new people who will carry MA experiences with them. I fly in the MA arenas occasionally, and I almost always get caught with a HO, or get vulched, and I DO always get ganged. We can't really expect that people who are used to that atmosphere will automatically adjust to the kinder, gentler AvA. (Parenthetically - note the parentheses - I observe that one of our regular squads which has spent the past few months in the MAs has adopted some of these qualities!)
Fourth, the AvA regulars - well, many of them, at least - are very competent. There are people as good or better in the MAs, but the ace-per-hundred ratio is a lot different. Dicho has commented on this before. For a new person, this can get overwhelming, I imagine, and you have to expect that some of them will HO and/or gang out of simple frustration.
Fifth (and last): We regulars are the ones who ought to be recognizing this, and be the LAST ones to say, "Well, hey, if they're doing it to us, then we're gonna do it to them!" Chill. Set the standard, don't drop to the lowest denominator.
Thanks to all who are involved, the AvA boards haven't been this busy in awhile, and it's good to see new people in the arena.
- oldman (and Grits is the madman, not me)
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Originally posted by Oldman731
Fifth (and last): We regulars are the ones who ought to be recognizing this, and be the LAST ones to say, "Well, hey, if they're doing it to us, then we're gonna do it to them!" Chill. Set the standard, don't drop to the lowest denominator.
- oldman (and Grits is the madman, not me)
And that's my whole point. Someone has to set the tone, and it should be the vets in the AvA. If those of us coming in have that mindset, as my guys do for sure, then it shouldn't be that hard to change and set a higher bar for AvA play
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Originally posted by Oldman731
First, TrueKill is carrying a lot of past history with him, history that really doesn't include most of the people who fly AvA these days. I can understand why he has a chip on his shoulder, but it's a new crowd, and it would be nice if he would lose the chip.
I agree. This is what I mean about Dan wasting his breath, I dont expect that chip to go away anytime soon. His comments about someone needing to be the "bad guy" are clear evidence that he enjoys his perceived role. Tone is the one thing that the AvA Staff can not control, only the player base can.
- oldman (and Grits is the madman, not me) [/B]
Bah, no one pay any attention to that madman!
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Originally posted by Guppy35
And that's my whole point. Someone has to set the tone, and it should be the vets in the AvA. If those of us coming in have that mindset, as my guys do for sure, then it shouldn't be that hard to change and set a higher bar for AvA play
You are correct Dan. The problem is it only takes one or two to that do not buy into the plan to reverse all the gains you make in changing the tone. I hope you succeed, but I have seen attempts like this fail miserably in the past and I am not optimistic.
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Just for giggles I searched the AvA forum as this really feels like dejavu for me. And it turns out this was the conversation I was pushing in 2005. Same crowd saying stfu or it won't work too :)
Not meaning you Grits btw :)
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Originally posted by Grits
I agree. This is what I mean about Dan wasting his breath, I dont expect that chip to go away anytime soon. His comments about someone needing to be the "bad guy" are clear evidence that he enjoys his perceived role. Tone is the one thing that the AvA Staff can not control, only the player base can.
Yes I love being the "bad guy" when I gang, and you guys working as a squad when you guys gang. Its like you have to take the hypocritial oath to fly allied. Yes I will always have that chip because when Jg54 left the CT it was cricket city because you guys didnt have anyone to fight, and Im tired of people overlooking that we were the only axis squad while flying agenst alot more allied squads. Again when we get ganged its ok because we are the trash talking bad guys, but when we gang we are trash talking gangers.
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Originally posted by Guppy35
Lets go into AvA, take 109s and go in low and make em come down and see if we can change it.
Might have to take some lumps, but who knows. it might be fun :)
If i am online, i will :)
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I enjoyed the brief time in AvA last night though I only rtb back to base once and that was gliding back with a dead eng :)
as unbalanced as the arena is at times, I'll take it over MA and its hordes anyday. With the right map (close bases) it only takes a few ppl to have good fights.
OM is right, the old days of AvA, really CT times, needs to be buried and a fresh face put on the room with less crying and complaining about planesets or tactics.
Since this bbs is where many first see what ava is about, caution should be taken not to chase them away before they even try out the room themselves.
Fly, die, learn & have fun.
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Originally posted by Oldman731
No, actually he isn't. Some good can come out of all this, I think.
First, TrueKill is carrying a lot of past history with him, history that really doesn't include most of the people who fly AvA these days. I can understand why he has a chip on his shoulder, but it's a new crowd, and it would be nice if he would lose the chip.
Second, it's good to see people like Dan, Shifty, Bug and Soulyss coming back here after having had a bad experience or two. There is a lot of basic good in the AvA. We need to work with that, and suffer through the bad.
Third, because some squad leaders and other influential types have made an effort to get their people into the AvA, we DO have some new people who will carry MA experiences with them. I fly in the MA arenas occasionally, and I almost always get caught with a HO, or get vulched, and I DO always get ganged. We can't really expect that people who are used to that atmosphere will automatically adjust to the kinder, gentler AvA. (Parenthetically - note the parentheses - I observe that one of our regular squads which has spent the past few months in the MAs has adopted some of these qualities!)
Fourth, the AvA regulars - well, many of them, at least - are very competent. There are people as good or better in the MAs, but the ace-per-hundred ratio is a lot different. Dicho has commented on this before. For a new person, this can get overwhelming, I imagine, and you have to expect that some of them will HO and/or gang out of simple frustration.
Fifth (and last): We regulars are the ones who ought to be recognizing this, and be the LAST ones to say, "Well, hey, if they're doing it to us, then we're gonna do it to them!" Chill. Set the standard, don't drop to the lowest denominator.
Thanks to all who are involved, the AvA boards haven't been this busy in awhile, and it's good to see new people in the arena.
- oldman (and Grits is the madman, not me)
Good post OM. You're correct, the best thing that could happen would be put the past behind and start with a fresh new attitude by all. That also means new thinking and new ideas should be considered as well. It also may mean a few sacred cows of the past need to be re-thought.
I think the idea of making every setup fair is one reason for the constant bickering. One persons fair may not seem fair to another person. I'd like to see us go with fewer model types in setups concentrating more on the historic than the fair. Some will be an Axis advantage, some will be an Allied advantage. Focus on the model matchup or the historical units involved. I've posted before about a maximum of three fighter types per side, you could put up some interesting scenarios with as little as two fighter types per side.You can still add a few ground attack or buffs to draw that crowd.
The best times I've had in AH since 2001 have been in the CT/AVA arena. What we have been doing the past year, and our behavior the past couple of years is not working ( I'm not talking about JG-54 here, I mean all of us.) We could do things better than we are doing them now, we could do things better than we did them in the past. We all need to change our prejudices and look at some different options, and ideas. Plus it wouldn't hurt at all if a few hatchets got buried as well.
GUPPY CLEAN OUT YOUR PM FOLDER!
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Originally posted by Guppy35
Just for giggles I searched the AvA forum as this really feels like dejavu for me. And it turns out this was the conversation I was pushing in 2005. Same crowd saying stfu or it won't work too :)
Not meaning you Grits btw :)
No problems Dan. I almost deleted that post for being too negative/pessimistic. The AvA/CT is where I started in AH, I flew there for almost exclusively for a year before I flew more than an hour in the MA so there is nothing I would like to see more than this to work. I still believe the AvA should be the arena of choice for those interested in the history of these planes and not just the MA part of the game.
I will do my part to change the tone.
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I fly in an all LW unit, that flies MA, also FSO, Snaps, and SEA as much as we can. We enjoy the historical matchups much more than the MA free for all. So the AvA would be exactly what we enjoy,...only it's not. We tried it and were appalled by the same things that have been brought up countless times. The final straw was my son being brought to the brink of tears when landing three hard fought kills, he was shot down by a field gun on his own field. I don't have to name names, or squads. Every one who has ever flown in the AvA knows exactly what and who the problems there are. I'll keep monitoring these boards to see if things get better, but obviously as someone mentioned...we still have the same old issues.
We would love to offer another regular Axis unit to the order of battle, but not until the "Do as I say, not as I do" "elite" grow up, turn a page, and decide that having fun is the priorty here. I have heard some say they prefer having low numbers in the arena. That's the wrong approach in my opinion.
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Originally posted by Stampf
We would love to offer another regular Axis unit to the order of battle, but not until the "Do as I say, not as I do" "elite" grow up, turn a page, and decide that having fun is the priorty here. I have heard some say they prefer having low numbers in the arena. That's the wrong approach in my opinion.
Sorry to hear what happened with your son. Keep monitoring the AVA boards. I'd like nothing better than to see more squads fly here. Another Axis squad would be a great addition. I agree with your opinon about low numbers. Low numbers are the biggest problem, we need to attract more old and new players, and find a way to keep them.
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Originally posted by Stampf
I fly in an all LW unit, that flies MA, also FSO, Snaps, and SEA as much as we can. We enjoy the historical matchups much more than the MA free for all. So the AvA would be exactly what we enjoy,...only it's not. We tried it and were appalled by the same things that have been brought up countless times. The final straw was my son being brought to the brink of tears when landing three hard fought kills, he was shot down by a field gun on his own field. I don't have to name names, or squads. Every one who has ever flown in the AvA knows exactly what and who the problems there are. I'll keep monitoring these boards to see if things get better, but obviously as someone mentioned...we still have the same old issues.
We would love to offer another regular Axis unit to the order of battle, but not until the "Do as I say, not as I do" "elite" grow up, turn a page, and decide that having fun is the priorty here. I have heard some say they prefer having low numbers in the arena. That's the wrong approach in my opinion.
yup well there are always two sides to every story. you guys were and are a bunch of vultching ack runners exhibiting some of the worst game play I have ever personally witnessed in the arena. I doubt there was a "hard won" victory by any of you guys especially at that time one year ago. your departure is no loss by my reckoning.
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That may work on 200 or with new players sir, but too many people in this game and on these boards know JG11 now, and therefor know that is nothing but untrue and just typical of why these threads even have to exist.
Thanks Shifty. Good luck.
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no sir it is categorically true. and it was especially true of the JG54 "black crosses" the last time I ran into you, you were at 10k above a fight picking and HOing with a dora. maybe you have changed in the last few months though.
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Originally posted by Grits
I almost deleted that post for being too negative/pessimistic.
...and yet...somehow unfortunately I think my assessment of the success of "changing the tone" is correct.
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Originally posted by Grits
...and yet...somehow unfortunately I think my assessment of the success of "changing the tone" is correct.
Ya think? :)
There does seem to be a bit of 'us against the world' regardless of how it affects the overall health of the AvA :)
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All this complaining about "tone" reminds of my ex (shudders). As does two threads full of incessant repetitive nattering.
I'm beginning to think Dan is actually Dawn.
Hike up your skirt, quit yer *****in', shut up and shoot. There's no crying in the AvA. That goes for all of ya.
Dismissed
PS. Oldman IS nuts
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My wife of 25 years would be a bit surprised to find out I was Dawn :)
We'd be hard pressed to explain the children as well:noid
Me thinks you miss the point KONG. Or are you content for the AvA to continue sputtering along with very few occupants?
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Guppy when you get a chance clean out your PM's I have some P-38 stuff to run by you.:aok
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Friday or Saturday night was probably my first night back in the AvA in 6 months. There were some good fights as TK and a bunch of other Axis players seemed to have the upper hand over the Allies. The striking thing that became apparent early was that the Axis players were for the most part staying about 6 to 8 miles away from the Allied base. An hour later after the numbers dwindled to about 6, the Allied players had the upper hand and were picking the Axis as they climbed out of their field. I logged and went to the MA.
It's just a thought but I'd recommend the MOTD lead off with AvA code of etiquette and that any player on either side call out to countrymen to read the MOTD when they see MA style behavior. If there is no AvA etiquette, which would be surprising with all these threads about it, that's fine but if there is, wouldn't it be a good idea to let new players know what it's supposed to be and remind the old hands as well (blatant rhetorical question.)
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Originally posted by Shifty
Guppy when you get a chance clean out your PM's I have some P-38 stuff to run by you.:aok
Consider it cleaned out :)
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yes dear
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there was a lot of mundane trash talking in the AvA when I played there but some of the best and most intense encounters resulted from the personal grudges that resulted. I absolutely hated storch and n7 but damn those guys could hand your bellybutton to you without batting an eyelash.
Screw em, but they were alot of fun ;)
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Originally posted by Larry
I asked OM if there were any slots open for a CM to try to have atlease one guy who flys axis as a CM, but now that its going back to the old JG54 bashing days I think Ill fly the MAs more and more from now on.
Yeah, if only one of the staff would fly Axis then "atlease" then would see were you guys are coming from.
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Originally posted by Easyscor
Friday or Saturday night was probably my first night back in the AvA in 6 months. There were some good fights as TK and a bunch of other Axis players seemed to have the upper hand over the Allies.
MINE MINE MINE!!:D
Originally posted by Slash27
Yeah, if only one of the staff would fly Axis then "atlease" then would see were you guys are coming from.
You guys might fly axis about as much as I fly allied. Flying axis an hour a week doesnt makr you an axis flyer. As far as I know all CMs are in allied squads and fly allied. Mabey one or two axis flyers as Cms wouldnt hurt.
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or maybe seeing them in the arena at all even.
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LOL you guys are such victims in all this.
OK the 80th just changed its name in the AvA to II/JG301 "Wilde Sau" (Read a great history on them so it made sense). We're 109 pilots from now on.
Gonna keep trolling for high Spits and Hurris too.
I may be scattering 38G parts all over the MA but I'll be scattering 109G6 parts all over the AvA :)
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Okay Ill see how you like the AvA after about 5 years of flying axis.:aok
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Originally posted by Eagler
OM is right, the old days of AvA, really CT times, needs to be buried and a fresh face put on the room with less crying and complaining about planesets or tactics.
Forgeting about all the years past will never happen. Thats what makes the AvA good all the history behind the people and squads.
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Originally posted by Larry
You guys might fly axis about as much as I fly allied. Flying axis an hour a week doesnt makr you an axis flyer. As far as I know all CMs are in allied squads and fly allied. Mabey one or two axis flyers as Cms wouldnt hurt.
I count one staffer in an "Allied" squad. Its well known we fly for whatever side has the least numbers, but you knew that. Its just fits the" its JG54 against the world" scenario you love to portray. An hour a week, this from the guy who's been back for 10 minutes.
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Originally posted by Guppy35
LOL you guys are such victims in all this.
They thrive on this Dan. As soon as the AvA starts getting people intrested again this same old song and dance comes up. Before too long its a ghost town again and all is well in their world.
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Originally posted by Guppy35
My wife of 25 years would be a bit surprised to find out I was Dawn :)
We'd be hard pressed to explain the children as well:noid
Me thinks you miss the point KONG. Or are you content for the AvA to continue sputtering along with very few occupants?
the point is that with poor setups the arena will remain empty. I could care less what anyone types at me at have a keyboard as well. I think most folks see the 200 banter for what it is.
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Originally posted by Larry
Okay Ill see how you like the AvA after about 5 years of flying axis.:aok
LOL so now their's a time frame before you qualify as Axis?
Lets see, I GL'd my first 109 Squadron back in Airwarrior when I had II/JG54 in the Battle of Britain Scenario.
Always had a soft spot for the 109E.
That was 2000 if memory serves. Built my first 109 model when I was about 7, which would have been 40 years ago. We can talk LW history if you want. My home library has a very large portion of it devoted to the 109 in particular. Some great stuff on JG54 as well as JG26, JG300, etc.
Hope bout 109 profiles? I'm kinda proud of my 109Es. This one being II/JG54 because of that group I GL'd.
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/109E7JG54Redone.jpg)
Are there other qualifications I need to fly Axis? There always seems to be one more hoop for the rest of us to jump through
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Originally posted by Slash27
I count one staffer in an "Allied" squad. Its well known we fly for whatever side has the least numbers, but you knew that. Its just fits the" its JG54 against the world" scenario you love to portray. An hour a week, this from the guy who's been back for 10 minutes.
Yes this from the guy whos been back for a month and has seen what Iv seen from the years before I had to leave.
You guys not be named after allied sqauds but you ARE allied squads if you fly allied 99.99% of the time. And since Iv been back I havent even seen you on alot slash I guess Im not on at the right times........ yea thats it.
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Originally posted by storch
the point is that with poor setups the arena will remain empty. I could care less what anyone types at me at have a keyboard as well. I think most folks see the 200 banter for what it is.
I'd bet you'd make a great goalie Storch. You are always deflecting everything away from the goal :)
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Originally posted by Guppy35
LOL so now their's a time frame before you qualify as Axis?
Lets see, I GL'd my first 109 Squadron back in Airwarrior when I had II/JG54 in the Battle of Britain Scenario.
Always had a soft spot for the 109E.
That was 2000 if memory serves. Built my first 109 model when I was about 7, which would have been 40 years ago. We can talk LW history if you want. My home library has a very large portion of it devoted to the 109 in particular. Some great stuff on JG54 as well as JG26, JG300, etc.
Are there other qualifications I need to fly Axis? There always seems to be one more hoop for the rest of us to jump through
Mabey flying axis a few years in the AvA. Canging your name to a axis sqaud and fly a few sorties makes you just about as much as a axis flyer as slash is.:lol
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Originally posted by Larry
Yes this from the guy whos been back for a month and has seen what Iv seen from the years before I had to leave.
You guys not be named after allied sqauds but you ARE allied squads if you fly allied 99.99% of the time. And since Iv been back I havent even seen you on alot slash I guess Im not on at the right times........ yea thats it.
May want to check your numbers there Larry, they are almost as bad as your spelling. Almost.
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Originally posted by Easyscor
Friday or Saturday night was probably my first night back in the AvA in 6 months. There were some good fights as TK and a bunch of other Axis players seemed to have the upper hand over the Allies. The striking thing that became apparent early was that the Axis players were for the most part staying about 6 to 8 miles away from the Allied base. An hour later after the numbers dwindled to about 6, the Allied players had the upper hand and were picking the Axis as they climbed out of their field. I logged and went to the MA.
It's just a thought but I'd recommend the MOTD lead off with AvA code of etiquette and that any player on either side call out to countrymen to read the MOTD when they see MA style behavior. If there is no AvA etiquette, which would be surprising with all these threads about it, that's fine but if there is, wouldn't it be a good idea to let new players know what it's supposed to be and remind the old hands as well (blatant rhetorical question.)
Good idea and couldn't hurt but I firmly believe that community fuels etiquette, a MOTD will never fill the bill.
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Originally posted by Larry
Mabey flying axis a few years in the AvA. Canging your name to a axis sqaud and fly a few sorties makes you just about as much as a axis flyer as slash is.:lol
Kinda figured you'd have that kind of response. Hate to break it to ya but your 109 is an American made plane by an American company and it's just pixals too.
You claim to be a historically based Axis squad? OK tell me some JG54 history please. Teach me about them, the guys who flew the 109s and 190s. I'm guessing I could teach you a whole lot more about them then you could teach me.
You guys always have an out. It's the plane set, No one flies Axis, the other guy started it. If i don't have alt I can't beat a Spit in a 109, and on and on.
So I told ya I'd come fly 109Gs with you against the Spits. You ignored that one.
Talked to the guys I fly with and we decided we'd fly Axis in AvA as a squad. That's not good enough because we haven't done it long enough to qualify in your book.
The Plane set is screwed up. Its the Hurricane, it's the Spit. Again. offered to come fly against them with you.
Now it's we've not flown Axis enough to qualify. The CMs don't fly Axis so they don't 'understand us".
Like i said. One more hoop all the time, but no effort in the other direction.
Maybe 109Ks and 190D9s vs P40Es would work?
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Dan,
without our participation there is no AvA. the point has been amply proven by JG54 time and again. we are in fact the most consistent squad to play the AvA, when we vacate the arena dies. would you want me to prove that point again?
in order for the arena to work people have to want to come in. in order for people to want to come in there has to be a motivator. the motivator is action, fights, good fights.
some players might want us to hold steady while they shoot at us if we evade we're stick stirrers or runners if climb to meet the 16k players we're alt monkies, if we stay low we're tree dodgers. in all of this we are in the arena, we will fight with or without the advantage, we will fight against people who should be ashamed of their usage of being in a hurricane. we don't log on see that there are better players in there and log off. we see good players on and immediately broadcast the fact looking for other members to come to the fight.
the arena needs more players like us and not the whimpering sensitive metrosexual detractors that post regarding how we play and what we say.
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Originally posted by storch
Dan,
without our participation there is no AvA. the point has been amply proven by JG54 time and again. we are in fact the most consistent squad to play the AvA, when we vacate the arena dies. would you want me to prove that point again?
in order for the arena to work people have to want to come in. in order for people to want to come in there has to be a motivator. the motivator is action, fights, good fights.
some players might want us to hold steady while they shoot at us if we evade we're stick stirrers or runners if climb to meet the 16k players we're alt monkies, if we stay low we're tree dodgers. in all of this we are in the arena, we will fight with or without the advantage, we will fight against people who should be ashamed of their usage of being in a hurricane. we don't log on see that there are better players in there and log off. we see good players on and immediately broadcast the fact looking for other members to come to the fight.
the arena needs more players like us and not the whimpering sensitive metrosexual detractors that post regarding how we play and what we say.
:rofl
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Originally posted by Guppy35
Kinda figured you'd have that kind of response. Hate to break it to ya but your 109 is an American made plane by an American company and it's just pixals too.
You claim to be a historically based Axis squad? OK tell me some JG54 history please. Teach me about them, the guys who flew the 109s and 190s. I'm guessing I could teach you a whole lot more about them then you could teach me.
You guys always have an out. It's the plane set, No one flies Axis, the other guy started it. If i don't have alt I can't beat a Spit in a 109, and on and on.
So I told ya I'd come fly 109Gs with you against the Spits. You ignored that one.
Talked to the guys I fly with and we decided we'd fly Axis in AvA as a squad. That's not good enough because we haven't done it long enough to qualify in your book.
The Plane set is screwed up. Its the Hurricane, it's the Spit. Again. offered to come fly against them with you.
Now it's we've not flown Axis enough to qualify. The CMs don't fly Axis so they don't 'understand us".
Like i said. One more hoop all the time, but no effort in the other direction.
Maybe 109Ks and 190D9s vs P40Es would work?
dan why don't you guys fly allied? that's what we really need. the current crop just don't cut it. not that any ever did.
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Storch, the only whimpering I'm seeing is from you guys justifying the way you act and the way you play.
You come across as perpetual victims in all this. The world doesn't understand you and in reality its everyone else who is wrong. It's always the other guy who has set you up to be wronged.
Is it even remotely possible that you can't see the forrest for the trees here?
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Originally posted by Slash27
May want to check your numbers there Larry, they are almost as bad as your spelling. Almost.
This month
Slash27 has:
0 Kills
0 Deaths
Dont know if its my spelling but looks like you havent been flying that much.
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dan,
I disagree. maybe you should squad up with us for a week and see for yourself?
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Originally posted by Guppy35
Storch, the only whimpering I'm seeing is from you guys justifying the way you act and the way you play.
You come across as perpetual victims in all this. The world doesn't understand you and in reality its everyone else who is wrong. It's always the other guy who has set you up to be wronged.
Is it even remotely possible that you can't see the forrest for the trees here?
I cant see the muti threads made by us knowing it would start the bashing but thats just me.
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Originally posted by storch
Dan,
without our participation there is no AvA. the point has been amply proven by JG54 time and again. we are in fact the most consistent squad to play the AvA, when we vacate the arena dies. would you want me to prove that point again?
I call bull****. I will bet you 6 months of subscription fees the arena does better with out you than with you.
-
dude it's been done. but if you want to try again I'm game.
-
Originally posted by Larry
This month
Slash27 has:
0 Kills
0 Deaths
Dont know if its my spelling but looks like you havent been flying that much.
Now go check your score sheet.:aok
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Corkyjr
Don't waste your time or breath trying to convince an immature, uneducated stain why he shouldn't be an immature, uneducated stain it is a complete waste of time.
Just grab a mob and bucket and help clean the AvA of it's current infestation. 880 flys in the AvA on Thursday night at 9pm EDT. Would love to have you and your boys join us. I think you will find the experience to be quite different.
-
some posts in this thread are perfect examples of what keeps the AvA a ghost town ...
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Originally posted by Slash27
Now go check your score sheet.:aok
Hmmm somethings fishys going on. Sry didnt know it was screwed up.:(
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Originally posted by Eagler
some posts in this thread are perfect examples of what keeps the AvA a ghost town ...
point them out eagler
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Originally posted by TheBug
Corkyjr
Don't waste your time or breath trying to convince an immature, uneducated stain why he shouldn't be an immature, uneducated stain it is a complete waste of time.
Any one have a mirror?
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Originally posted by Larry
You guys might fly axis about as much as I fly allied. Flying axis an hour a week doesnt makr you an axis flyer. As far as I know all CMs are in allied squads and fly allied. Mabey one or two axis flyers as Cms wouldnt hurt.
The Gunfighters are a non-aligned squad, we are NOT in any sense of the word an Allied squad. I have not been flying AH at all lately, but since I started four years ago I spend at least 50% on each side, but more often than not I spend closer to 60-70% of my time in the AvA as Axis. I fly Allied when you are on because you are a good fight most of the time, and often when you are there others from JG54 are there and the Allies need help.
Not every Gunfighter flies Axis as much as I do, but most of them are close to 50/50. A few may even fly almost only one side or the other and thats OK with me too.
-
Originally posted by storch
Dan,
without our participation there is no AvA. the point has been amply proven by JG54 time and again. we are in fact the most consistent squad to play the AvA, when we vacate the arena dies. would you want me to prove that point again?
in order for the arena to work people have to want to come in. in order for people to want to come in there has to be a motivator. the motivator is action, fights, good fights.
some players might want us to hold steady while they shoot at us if we evade we're stick stirrers or runners if climb to meet the 16k players we're alt monkies, if we stay low we're tree dodgers. in all of this we are in the arena, we will fight with or without the advantage, we will fight against people who should be ashamed of their usage of being in a hurricane. we don't log on see that there are better players in there and log off. we see good players on and immediately broadcast the fact looking for other members to come to the fight.
the arena needs more players like us and not the whimpering sensitive metrosexual detractors that post regarding how we play and what we say.
ROFL.....this is so laughable, it hurts....
Guys...don't you know who your talking to??? It's "Mr. AvA"! ROFL
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Originally posted by storch
dan,
I disagree. maybe you should squad up with us for a week and see for yourself?
Note the opening post in this thread that i started. It was not a bash of JG54 but an offer to fly with TK against the Spits and I quote:
"OK Larry/TK
Lets go into AvA, take 109s and go in low and make em come down and see if we can change it.
Might have to take some lumps, but who knows. it might be fun:)"
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Originally posted by Eagler
OM is right, the old days of AvA, really CT times, needs to be buried and a fresh face put on the room with less crying and complaining about planesets or tactics.
Hi my name is Larry/TrueKill I fly with Jg54 "Grunherz" in the AvA I like 1v1 fights but also like flying with my squad. Looking forward to finding some good fights with all the other people who fly AvA.:aok
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Originally posted by 1Duke1
ROFL.....this is so laughable, it hurts....
Guys...don't you know who your talking to??? It's "Mr. AvA"! ROFL
that's right!!! mr AvA esq. to you btw
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Originally posted by storch
without our participation there is no AvA. the point has been amply proven by JG54 time and again. we are in fact the most consistent squad to play the AvA, when we vacate the arena dies. would you want me to prove that point again?
"Take us as we are, or we'll leave and you'll die"?
If it's come to that, Storch, then perhaps you should leave. The AvA does not, and cannot, depend on any one person, or any particular group of people. H2H arenas are for that.
I consider you and TK to be my friends, Storch, but it really is time to cut the crap. So long as this attitude, and the abusive talk in the arena, continue, AvA never will be much more than JG54's personal playground.
I appreciate that you folks were there when others left, we all do, but that doesn't give you the keys to the arena. I also don't think that this is a JG54 problem. There are a lot of JG54 members who can be just as pleasant as everyone else. It's you and TK who have the attitude on these boards.
I'm tired of this. I'm really very, very tired of this. If you really value your ability to maintain a bad-guy attitudes more than your enjoyment of the AvA, then, yes, you should go off to the MAs.
- oldman (not happy to write this)
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Originally posted by storch
point them out eagler
you can start with most of yours
-
where in the world did you read any of that into that statement? it's a fact and that is all. if we (JG54 members not just me) don't go into the arena the place is empty. I'll remind you that I returned at your urging.
-
Originally posted by Eagler
you can start with most of yours
mine only? or the dialog?
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Originally posted by Oldman731
"Take us as we are, or we'll leave and you'll die"?
Faking a quote and then condemning it is extraordinarily intellectually dishonest.
Shame on you old one.
-
Originally posted by storch
Dan,
without our participation there is no AvA. the point has been amply proven by JG54 time and again. when we vacate the arena dies.
the arena needs more players like us
This is exactly what we don't need: AvA is for all. It is not, never was and never will be owned by any individual, any squadron, any member of Staff.
If you fly here, you fly what you're given to fly. You don't like, go elsewhere. Play H2H. Go away.
If I was your boss, I'd fire you this instant. This is blackmail. I don't accept blackmail.
If you guys think that AvA is yours, you're wrong.
If you think that you are indispensable, you're wrong.
If you think that AvA will disappear if you leave, you're wrong.
If you want to leave, leave.
If you stay, you eat what the other guys eat and make no fuss.
Go to MA, go to H2H, make your own game, make your own rules. Away from AvA, away from AH.
I'm sick and tired to hear you guys whine. For this, for that. And that too. Behave like men.
Sparow
-
More strawman bs
-
some of you guys seem to have a problem with real facts. I did not say we were the AvA I said that without our participation the AvA is empty. this is true. you have convinced me though. I'll stay out of the arena. I can't speak for the rest of JG54 but as for myself I'm done for a bit. I'll take that bet slash. can you afford to pony up if you lose?
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Originally posted by KONG1
Faking a quote and then condemning it is extraordinarily intellectually dishonest.
Shame on you old one.
That was not an accurate paraphrase of what Storch said?
-
not at all
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Originally posted by Grits
That was not an accurate paraphrase of what Storch said?
That's how it came across to me as well.
-
I took it the same way as well, maybe that was not the intent, but thats how I read it.
-
Originally posted by sparow
This is exactly what we don't need: AvA is for all. It is not, never was and never will be owned by any individual, any squadron, any member of Staff.
If you fly here, you fly what you're given to fly. You don't like, go elsewhere. Play H2H. Go away.
If I was your boss, I'd fire you this instant. This is blackmail. I don't accept blackmail.
If you guys think that AvA is yours, you're wrong.
If you think that you are indispensable, you're wrong.
If you think that AvA will disappear if you leave, you're wrong.
If you want to leave, leave.
If you stay, you eat what the other guys eat and make no fuss.
Go to MA, go to H2H, make your own game, make your own rules. Away from AvA, away from AH.
I'm sick and tired to hear you guys whine. For this, for that. And that too. Behave like men.
Sparow
Sparow We have left a few times before and when we did the arena stayed empty, because there was no one to fight and people got tired of fighting squadies. Then when we came back numbers came back. Without an enemy to fight there is no fight. Same would happen if the allied squads left.
-
For Grits and Dawn:
http://www.readingcomprehensionconnection.com/
:D
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Originally posted by KONG1
For Grits and Dawn:
http://www.readingcomprehensionconnection.com/
:D
This from a guy who doesn't know how to spell "Blondes" :)
-
when we left as JG3 the arena emptied. we returned when jester and lowe formed up JG54.
JG54 brought back the opposition, the fights returned and so did the numbers.
JG54 broke up and was no more. the arena again emptied.
AHII further crippled the CT.
JG54 arose again under VWE001 and the fights returned though not with the same level of participation as when during AHI.
the real destroyer was AHII but within that if there are no fights there is no CT/AvA.
once again for you guys who insist on villifying myself and others by association. there is no game without a fight. if we (JG54) don't consistently come into the arena and fight no one else does.
it's a pretty simple concept. you should allow your personal prejudices to pass over you and read what is being presented.
that is not to say that someone else might not take up the baton and run with it a while and there are others who consistently show 1Duke1, oldman etc. but bye and large that's about it.
but here you have a golden opportunity to prove me wrong. I'll stay away from the AvA. I won't log as storch or as a shade either but I'll monitor and log arena numbers every time I log onto the game. let's see what the numbers tell.
maybe stampf and his troop of runners will pick up the slack for the arena. we'll see.
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AvA is a place where we "try" to have historical matchups. That does not mean that those matchups be 100% correct planewise ant it's not because the AvA Staff doesn't try...Too many holes in the planeset, too many models missing. It doesn't matter. We are supposed to fly what we have to fly according to period and scenario.
It doesn't suit your style? Too bad.
It goes two ways, you know? If you invent a game of your own you will probably not find who to fight against...
Fly, fight, don't argue about planesets, be constructive, accept history.
But don't blackmail us! If you push it that way, I say, leave.
I am the first to admit that JG54 has some of the most competent Axis flyers I know in AH. But none is invincible, and it's a shame that you keep whining for more pleaseant setups, when you don't need that, and try to ruin one of the two only things that maka AvA unique (one is historical matchups, the other is 2 country Axis vs Allied format).
And, when agains all reason, you fail to make a silly point, you say you leave. Go, we will fair better without you whining about everything.
It's your call, never threaten to do something you can't or you don't have the courage to keep.
And TrueKill, Larry, listen to me: the other day, when we met in AvA and we were alone, I was leaving but hold on for a few minutes because you had logged and looking for a fight, remember?
I let you climb, then I attacked. We fought a clean fight, good manouevering, you crossed my sights, I took a shot, I shot you down. You thought I was flying a Spit9, I was flying a Spit5 and you were surprised.
When I landed, I was trying to contact you, but you already had logged out.
I wanted to have a word with you because of that time when I was roaming around in CT in a JG54 Squad Event evening, do you remember that?
It was the only occasion in all these years that I argued with someone in AH. You remember why? I talked about that with Storch once.
Well, I was going to tell you that I would delete that episode if at least we could calmly talk about it and explained between ourselves.
To be honest, this attitude of "Let us have it our way or we're gone" is very much like that "We're running an event, leave" you once tried on me...
I see that it is a recurrent attitude...
Now, I don't think that I will believe a word you guys say, sorry. Trust takes many years to build and lasts while it lasts. Distrust, only a few seconds to settle and it's for life.
Sorry,
Sparow
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Originally posted by Guppy35
This from a guy who doesn't know how to spell "Blondes" :)
Actually both are correct spellings.
Upon further research(wikipedia):
Writers of English will still distinguish between the masculine blond and the feminine blonde[2] and, as such, it is one of the few adjectives in English with separate masculine and feminine forms.
However, many writers use only one of the spellings without regard to gender, and without a clear majority usage one way or another.
Since some consider the form wo the e to be masculine maybe I should change it. Don't want to give Grits false hope.:)
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Was that when I was turn fighting you in a C202. If so let me tell you I play on dialup and I loose UDP and get discod atlease 3-5 times a day. I think that was one of the times I discod. This setup isnt "historical" for th guys who are flying the FSOs to practice. AvA is more like a "fair historical" setup. If it will unbalance the arena I dont think the CMs will let it stay, or so I think.
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Originally posted by storch
Dan,
without our participation there is no AvA. the point has been amply proven by JG54 time and again. we are in fact the most consistent squad to play the AvA, when we vacate the arena dies. would you want me to prove that point again?
in order for the arena to work people have to want to come in. in order for people to want to come in there has to be a motivator. the motivator is action, fights, good fights.
some players might want us to hold steady while they shoot at us if we evade we're stick stirrers or runners if climb to meet the 16k players we're alt monkies, if we stay low we're tree dodgers. in all of this we are in the arena, we will fight with or without the advantage, we will fight against people who should be ashamed of their usage of being in a hurricane. we don't log on see that there are better players in there and log off. we see good players on and immediately broadcast the fact looking for other members to come to the fight.
the arena needs more players like us and not the whimpering sensitive metrosexual detractors that post regarding how we play and what we say.
Your assessment of JG54's importance to the life of the AvA is quite entertaining there storch. As for logging off because there are "better players" in there - :lol
Gawd now that's truly funny.
You've got some good sticks in JG54, no doubt about it, but you mistake people not wanting to associate with you and yours when you're on a text buffer campaign for some supposed fear of your elite skills. There isn't a lot of point in digging through that big a pile of equine excretia in the hope of finding a small pony. Most of us would rather the relatively cleaner air of the MA's.
Just so you know - I'm one of those guys who'll log into the AvA on occasion and sit in the tower for a few minutes. If you see me don't worry, I'm not afraid. I'm just in checking the depth of the hs. If it's over the top of my waders I'll log off and go the MA's where it's spread out over a bigger area and not so deep.
Cheers
asw
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ya well whatever asw you are as entitled to your opinion as I am to mine. I'll slap you around cartoonland when I can find you. go ahead and blame the text buffer though.
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LOL storch,I'll give you your chance tonight - 10pm(ish) eastern though.
asw
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I'll look forward to it but I've banned myself from the AvA. I'll look for you though.
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This has run its course.