Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: BaldEagl on May 14, 2007, 12:59:50 AM
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So far this camp I've gotten to fly with my squad twice. Twice in 13 days.
My squad is usually in the orange arena. Every night when I log on Orange is overfilled (usually by almost 100 people) so I end up flying alone in Blue. Could I ask everyone to come to Blue? Sure, but if they like flying in Orange great, so I usually just give them a and go about playing in blue. Sometimes they'll come over. Sometimes I just don't even bother with the so they won't feel obligated.
Tonight I logged on and actualy was able to get into Orange. No squad (I logged on pretty late). Orange was being devistated by Knights and Rooks so I went to blue seeking a little more balance. Blue was being devestated by our country (Bish) and ENY was over 20 so, I thought I'd go back to orange to help out. Overfilled. Couldn't get in. So I ended up playing in MW. Not many people, the ones that were there were mostly land grabbing and none of the planes I wanted to fly tonight were available to me (in either EW, MW or blue due to ENY).
So, being one who doesn't like changing countries, I was faced with the choices of milkrunning alone in EW, landgrabbing with a few others in MW or joining the hoard and flying planes I didn't really want to fly in my hour available in blue.
I understand the need to force people to balance the arenas. I do however think there should be an accommodation to allow squads to fly together in whatever arena the most members are in and I think that forcing people to fly in the arena that they are hoarding in rather than the one that they are being gang raped in is just wrong. What kind of balance is that?
Had I been able to see the map names, player balances and territory balances before log-in, knowing none of my squaddies were up, I would have gone to and remained in orange. As it is, the only way I can make a decision as to which arena I want to fly in is to go into each one and look, in which time the one I end up wanting to fly in might be filled as was the case tonight.
I don't know what the answers are given the current state of affairs but I suspect if nothings done this will get worse over the summer as squeaker season opens.
Forgive this post as I know this has been beat to death but I'm just frustrated, not by how I've been doing in the game, but by the limitations being placed on me to even try to play the game.
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"These attempts at balancing are nice and all, but I'd like them more if they didn't affect me whatsoever."
Yeah, you and all the other people who seek to create and perpetuate the lopsided numbers.
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
"These attempts at balancing are nice and all, but I'd like them more if they didn't affect me whatsoever."
Yeah, you and all the other people who seek to create and perpetuate the lopsided numbers.
I think you might have misread the part where once having looked through the arenas I wanted to go to orange tonight where Bish had 80 some players to 110+ for each of the Rooks and Knights and both were ganging Bish but I couldn't get back in. I wanted to help offset the lopsided numbers, not add to them as would have been the case had I flown in Blue, therefore I ended up in MW where at least the numbers were even.
Now how exactly does that make me one who seeks to create and perpetuate the lopsided numbers?
And BTW pr***, I never said "These attempts at balancing are nice and all, but I'd like them more if they didn't affect me whatsoever." What I did try to say is that there must be a better way.
[EDIT] And I'll go so far as to attempt to make a constructive suggestion (in addition to the one above about being able to see what the arena balances are before logging in) rather than your close minded "This is the way it is so it must be the best" post.
Make the LWA's invisible to the player base. When logging in your choices are EW, MW and LW. If you hit LW you are put in the arena by first, where your country is most outnumbered (i.e. sides are most imbalanced) and second by overall arena numbers (i.e. put in the arena with the lowest numbers). Then it doesn't matter how many arenas there are, you are simply assigned to one. This would also largely eliminate ENY but it would cause issues with squads so the assignment to an arena where squaddies are already up may also need to be implemented. This would also help arena balances for the non prime-time players although overall arena numbers might be low (that said opening and closing arenas to adjust for prime time may also be an option not currently available).
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At one point Rooks had 60 more and Nits 45 more than Bish.
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Press "Quit" then "Online Game"...after several tries the player limit will be upped. Never had a problem to join an overcrowded server after doing this for more than a minute.
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BaldEagl i too have had this prb trying to get in to the arena my squad is in.im going to quit the game for the summer. no need paying for a game i dont get to play maby il come back maby not who nos
yb40(aka) yb1
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Everyday I get off work and log on to the game and can't get in the arena my squadies are in. Everyday! :furious
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.sr will let you know where the rest of your squad is when your in the lobby, if you didn't know.
Nine out of ten times when I log in I can't get into the same arena as my squad. So I end up having to log in and out of another arena until I can get into the one I want. If I can't fly with my squad, I don't normally fly. Many times I only end up in the lobby to see if any of them are on, and if they are not, eighty percent of the time I exit the game all together.
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Originally posted by Harp00n
Press "Quit" then "Online Game"...after several tries the player limit will be upped. Never had a problem to join an overcrowded server after doing this for more than a minute.
This only works at certain times, when the population is stable or increasing.
If you disco at very late US hours, chances are the arenas are continually downsizing preventing joining the more "popular" one.
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Originally posted by BaldEagl
So being One that doesnt like to change countries,
Theres your problem Bud...
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this is why in the current setup things just aint workin 100%
we have 2 arenas that are unbalanced
we have a cap limitor that forces people into other arenas even if it makes them even MORE unbalanced
we have squads not able to fly with each other.
we have small maps with 400 players on....
i for one am glad that i only fly Euro time now, no issues with too many players, no issues with arena caps, and virtually no issues with balance (untill 7pm anyway)
How hard would it be to make an arena balance setting that would allow seperate countries to join servers so the balance is still there?
ie
LWO A-120 : B-60 : C-100 should still allow countries from B to join, even if the 280 cap was reached.....
honest question
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Never takes more than a few mins to find a slot. Just quit and retry every few seconds and i bet that it takes MAX 3-5 mins to enter an arena. Only time this may be an issue is if the limit changed a few minutes prior to your attempt.
I can see that if you give up after one attempt after entering the game that this is a problem.
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Originally posted by BaldEagl
I think you might have misread the part where once having looked through the arenas I wanted to go to orange tonight where Bish had 80 some players to 110+ for each of the Rooks and Knights and both were ganging Bish but I couldn't get back in. I wanted to help offset the lopsided numbers, not add to them as would have been the case had I flown in Blue, therefore I ended up in MW where at least the numbers were even.
Now how exactly does that make me one who seeks to create and perpetuate the lopsided numbers?
And BTW pr***, I never said "These attempts at balancing are nice and all, but I'd like them more if they didn't affect me whatsoever." What I did try to say is that there must be a better way.
[EDIT] And I'll go so far as to attempt to make a constructive suggestion (in addition to the one above about being able to see what the arena balances are before logging in) rather than your close minded "This is the way it is so it must be the best" post.
Make the LWA's invisible to the player base. When logging in your choices are EW, MW and LW. If you hit LW you are put in the arena by first, where your country is most outnumbered (i.e. sides are most imbalanced) and second by overall arena numbers (i.e. put in the arena with the lowest numbers). Then it doesn't matter how many arenas there are, you are simply assigned to one. This would also largely eliminate ENY but it would cause issues with squads so the assignment to an arena where squaddies are already up may also need to be implemented. This would also help arena balances for the non prime-time players although overall arena numbers might be low (that said opening and closing arenas to adjust for prime time may also be an option not currently available).
here,here
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Originally posted by Nilsen
Never takes more than a few mins to find a slot. Just quit and retry every few seconds and i bet that it takes MAX 3-5 mins to enter an arena. Only time this may be an issue is if the limit changed a few minutes prior to your attempt.
I can see that if you give up after one attempt after entering the game that this is a problem.
Depends on the time you are usually flying at. See my post above.
When that happens to me and the other Arenas do suck, usually the TA has to endure my presence for a while :D
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Originally posted by Lusche
Depends on the time you are usually flying at. See my post above.
I dont fly at those hours so you could very well have a point there.
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Originally posted by Nilsen
I dont fly at those hours so you could very well have a point there.
I do :D
Sadly I don't have a feasible idea how to change that. With current 2 LW arena system there will always be one or points each day where such symptoms occur. And it has been already adjusted, it has been much worse ;)
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Originally posted by BaldEagl
being one who doesn't like changing countries
Originally posted by Platano
Theres your problem Bud...
Wrong, he shouldn't have to do that.
This isn't his problem at all, it's HiTech's and the way they setup the arenas.
What if his squad is loyal to one country? He's going to switch and go against them?
No.
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Originally posted by halcyon
Wrong, he shouldn't have to do that.
This isn't his problem at all, it's HiTech's and the way they setup the arenas.
What if his squad is loyal to one country? He's going to switch and go against them?
No.
you keep forgetting...... its just a game !!! I almost never switch sides, not that I won't, I just almost never find it nessisary. Its easy enough to find some fun, don't resrict your options.
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Originally posted by BaldEagl
And BTW pr***, I never said "These attempts at balancing are nice and all, but I'd like them more if they didn't affect me whatsoever." What I did try to say is that there must be a better way.
Originally posted by BaldEagl
I do however think there should be an accommodation to allow squads to fly together in whatever arena the most members are in and I think that forcing people to fly in the arena that they are hoarding in rather than the one that they are being gang raped in is just wrong.
Okay, yeah, I guess I misread the part where you ask for squads (since you're in one) to be exempt. :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by BaldEagl
So, being one who doesn't like changing countries, I was faced with the choices of milkrunning alone in EW, landgrabbing with a few others in MW or joining the hoard and flying planes I didn't really want to fly in my hour available in blue.
I understand the need to force people to balance the arenas. I do however think there should be an accommodation to allow squads to fly together in whatever arena the most members are in and I think that forcing people to fly in the arena that they are hoarding in rather than the one that they are being gang raped in is just wrong. What kind of balance is that?
I doubt you "understand" the need. You've contradicted yourself in the span of one run-on sentence and the first sentence of the next paragraph.
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we would need three late war arenas if there was ever going to be balance in that part of the force. not that the arena situation would suck much less mind you, but i would bring balance.
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Originally posted by JB88
we would need three late war arenas if there was ever going to be balance in that part of the force. not that the arena situation would suck much less mind you, but i would bring balance.
3 MA arenas would be great! One for each chesspiece so milkrunning could be made safer and more effective. :D
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Originally posted by Harp00n
Press "Quit" then "Online Game"...after several tries the player limit will be upped. Never had a problem to join an overcrowded server after doing this for more than a minute.
I always thought that was the case too but the other night I did this for 30 minutes to no avail. In fact, recently it never seems to work.
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Originally posted by Masherbrum
I doubt you "understand" the need. You've contradicted yourself in the span of one run-on sentence and the first sentence of the next paragraph.
That wasn't actually a contradiction. No, I don't want to change countries but why can't I log into the arena where my country is severely outnumbered by each of the others? Instead I'm forced to fly in the arena where my country outnumbers each other by 1.5 to 1 or go to EW/MW.
Here's an expansion of my idea posted above: In addition to automatically assigning players to an arena to accomplish both country and arena balance also automatically assign them to a country on log-on to achieve balance. As to squads you are automatically assigned to the arena and country where any other squad-mates already are.
This would help eliminate the Knight noob syndrome and help promote community. You could then eliminate the ability to change countries as you'de be automatically assigned. Also, the "spys" wouldn't be able to change countries and re-logging to do so would be a crap-shoot.
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The current set-up definately has its problems, many of which were predicted a long time ago.
I also think it is going to get worse because of the start of 'squeaker season'.
One thing for definate, using ENY restrictions to encourage side swapping is an outstanding failure in the multiple arena setup.
What it has encouraged is arena hopping.
Unfortuneately I can't see an answer to it :( .
[edit]
Can usually get into the arena where the rest of the squad is, even if it takes 5-10 mins sometimes.
Had the same problem of I can get into the arena were country has numbers (and ENY'ed), but not into the one where we are outnumbered (other country(ies) are ENY'ed)
Was suggested a while ago if you want to go into an arena where your country is the lowest in numbers you should be able to by-pass the cap.
To make this work side switching may have to be disabled though (for obvious reasons.)
Still think we also need an auto-logoff after 30 minutes for inactive guys, they affect ENY for all countries irrespective if on the high/low countries.
An example -
A few early mornings ago I switched to Knits so I could hit Rooks.
Including me Knits had 6 players v 14+ for each of the other two.
After a while Knits had dwindled to 4 players, other two countries to around 10 players.
Out of those 4 only 2, me and MakoShark were 'active'.
So although it was by numbers 4 v 10 v 10, in reality it was 2 v 10 v10, of course out of the 10 how many where actually there I don't know.
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Originally posted by Kev367th
One thing for definate, using ENY restrictions to encourage side swapping is an outstanding failure in the multiple arena setup.
I doubt it was ever expected of ENY limits being able to do that. Most people were and are associated to a specific country.
However, the main aim of ENY (well, at least as I understand it) it's to restict one sides capabilty of having both overwhelming numbers and still flying late-war monsters, thus leveling playground a bit more.
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If you choose to not switch, then there is no argument.
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Originally posted by Lusche
I doubt it was ever expected of ENY limits being able to do that. Most people were and are associated to a specific country.
However, the main aim of ENY (well, at least as I understand it) it's to restict one sides capabilty of having both overwhelming numbers and still flying late-war monsters, thus leveling playground a bit more.
Actually yes it was 'supposed' to encourage side switching, check back through some of the earlier threads.
As has been pointed out - A hoard, is a hoard, is a hoard, doesn't matter what they are flying.
It may delay a reset if they are in earlier planes, it won't stop it.
I just keep thinking there has to be a better way, but as of now, I can't think of one.
[edit]
Should add - 40% rule and uncaptureable fields:
Was supposed to discourage the 'gangbang' - Well thats worked, NOT.
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Originally posted by BaldEagl
So far this camp I've gotten to fly with my squad twice. Twice in 13 days.
My squad is usually in the orange arena. Every night when I log on Orange is overfilled (usually by almost 100 people) so I end up flying alone in Blue. Could I ask everyone to come to Blue? Sure, but if they like flying in Orange great, so I usually just give them a and go about playing in blue. Sometimes they'll come over. Sometimes I just don't even bother with the so they won't feel obligated.
Tonight I logged on and actualy was able to get into Orange. No squad (I logged on pretty late). Orange was being devistated by Knights and Rooks so I went to blue seeking a little more balance. Blue was being devestated by our country (Bish) and ENY was over 20 so, I thought I'd go back to orange to help out. Overfilled. Couldn't get in. So I ended up playing in MW. Not many people, the ones that were there were mostly land grabbing and none of the planes I wanted to fly tonight were available to me (in either EW, MW or blue due to ENY).
So, being one who doesn't like changing countries, I was faced with the choices of milkrunning alone in EW, landgrabbing with a few others in MW or joining the hoard and flying planes I didn't really want to fly in my hour available in blue.
I understand the need to force people to balance the arenas. I do however think there should be an accommodation to allow squads to fly together in whatever arena the most members are in and I think that forcing people to fly in the arena that they are hoarding in rather than the one that they are being gang raped in is just wrong. What kind of balance is that?
Had I been able to see the map names, player balances and territory balances before log-in, knowing none of my squaddies were up, I would have gone to and remained in orange. As it is, the only way I can make a decision as to which arena I want to fly in is to go into each one and look, in which time the one I end up wanting to fly in might be filled as was the case tonight.
I don't know what the answers are given the current state of affairs but I suspect if nothings done this will get worse over the summer as squeaker season opens.
Forgive this post as I know this has been beat to death but I'm just frustrated, not by how I've been doing in the game, but by the limitations being placed on me to even try to play the game.
Gee after saying all that AGAIN..... you didn't tell HOW to fix it.
Just another post with no substance.
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Originally posted by Kev367th
Actually yes it was 'supposed' to encourage side switching, check back through some of the earlier threads.
^
I completely agree that the ENY limit was also suppose to encourage side switching - but only that: encourage, not to completey level the numbers.
When people do claim ENY doesnt work because sides are still uneven in numbers - that's what I was referring to.
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Somebody else brought this up (Kweassa?), and I think it's a good point.
Locking the cap only locks in the imbalanced sides. Doesn't kick out any of the hording country, doesn't allow others in to help even it out.
Basically you're sealing in the badness.
No easy way around that, though. There are complex suggestions such as placing a cap on each COUNTRY in an arena, but the KISS principle says that what we have is a compromise between what we need and what we can get done in a short time frame.
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Last night was an utter joke. Close to 50 Bish logged out of Orange and into Blue simply because at the time things weren't going so well. ENY was a non issue before this, then it went straight to hell in a quick few minutes.
I just don't get it. People would rather fly in a huge crowd, fight over a few scraps and complain about how they can't fly their "ride" when the opportunity is there to fly it, and to actually find a fight. Instead all I see is pointless circlejerking and scurrying about doing anything except actually enagaging in combat with another human opponent.
:(
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Originally posted by Shuffler
Gee after saying all that AGAIN..... you didn't tell HOW to fix it.
Just another post with no substance.
Here was one partial suggestion:
Had I been able to see the map names, player balances and territory balances before log-in, knowing none of my squaddies were up, I would have gone to and remained in orange. As it is, the only way I can make a decision as to which arena I want to fly in is to go into each one and look, in which time the one I end up wanting to fly in might be filled as was the case tonight.
I've made a couple more since.
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BaldEagl i feel your frustration, Gawd i just looked at my score, 1 hour and twentyfive minutes this month total time played UGH
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Originally posted by Stang
Last night was an utter joke. Close to 50 Bish logged out of Orange and into Blue simply because at the time things weren't going so well. ENY was a non issue before this, then it went straight to hell in a quick few minutes.
I just don't get it. People would rather fly in a huge crowd, fight over a few scraps and complain about how they can't fly their "ride" when the opportunity is there to fly it, and to actually find a fight. Instead all I see is pointless circlejerking and scurrying about doing anything except actually enagaging in combat with another human opponent.
:(
And there's the problem. I could easily log into blue and join the hoard. I couldn't get into orange at all to help where it was really needed.
... And quit shooting me down Stang :)
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Instead all I see is pointless circlejerking and scurrying about doing anything except actually enagaging in combat with another human opponent.-stank
Without more exposure for the trainers, advanced tutorials, and a willingness in the newb and veteran community to learn and teach , this game with continue to degenerate from an incredible massively multi player online combat flight simulation into a pointless non combative "wtf is an acm" circle jerk.
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Originally posted by Stang
Last night was an utter joke. Close to 50 Bish logged out of Orange and into Blue simply because at the time things weren't going so well. ENY was a non issue before this, then it went straight to hell in a quick few minutes.
I just don't get it. People would rather fly in a huge crowd, fight over a few scraps and complain about how they can't fly their "ride" when the opportunity is there to fly it, and to actually find a fight. Instead all I see is pointless circlejerking and scurrying about doing anything except actually enagaging in combat with another human opponent.
:(
Dictonary
Late War Arena : Definition
An Aces High online WWII Air Combat MMOG arena where people would rather fly in a huge crowd, fight over a few scraps and complain about how they can't fly their "ride" when the opportunity is there to fly it, and to actually find a fight. Continous and pointless circlejerking and scurrying about doing anything except actually enagaging in combat with another human opponent unless they have overwhelming odds.
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Originally posted by Kev367th
Actually yes it was 'supposed' to encourage side switching, check back through some of the earlier threads.
That was its basic premise ... now I believe that it encourages arena switching (primarily within Late War only) more than side switching.
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Originally posted by SlapShot
Dictonary
EW/MW : Definition
An Aces High online WWII Air Combat MMOG arena where people would rather fly in a huge crowd, fight over a few sheds and complain about how someone would protect those sheds. Continous and pointless circlejerking and scurrying about doing anything except actually enagaging in combat with another human opponent unless they have overwhelming odds.
^ :D
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Nilsen, you forgot to mention it's the prime place to milk run and vulch your second account for most of the folks trying to get #1 ranks.
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Can't for the life of me figure out why I get to fly with my squadies and have fun, whenever I fly.
It's the damndest thing :)
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How about a .disco [arena name] command which will randomly disconnect someone in that arena.
Be careful though, it could disco one of your squadmates or if you are not quick someone else will fill the spot you just created.
Yea, I fell outa bed this morning and bumped my coconut.
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Originally posted by fuzeman
How about a .disco [arena name] command which will randomly disconnect someone in that arena.
Be careful though, it could disco one of your squadmates or if you are not quick someone else will fill the spot you just created.
Yea, I fell outa bed this morning and bumped my coconut.
Add a few perks and move it to the wishlist please :D
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Nilsen ... that could very well be true, but only if the word "huge" fit ... and in EW/MW the population is far from huge.
Krusty ... you absolutely correct ... I spend most of my time in there trying to prevent it ... that is where I find my "food".
I would fly in LW more, but the "fighting over scraps" is what I can stomach anymore ... epecially since I mainly fly the FM2.
I work a guy over, or am working a guy over, and there are tons of squeeking heros that feel the need to swoop right in and snatch my "food" right out from underneath me.
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Originally posted by gpa3
:cry
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Originally posted by Anyone
How hard would it be to make an arena balance setting that would allow seperate countries to join servers so the balance is still there?
ie
LWO A-120 : B-60 : C-100 should still allow countries from B to join, even if the 280 cap was reached.....
honest question [/B]
I think this is an awsum idea
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IF YOU CHOOSE NOT TO SWITCH, THERE IS NO ARGUEMENT !!!
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How about one late war arena.How about just one arena.How about everyone gets their own arena.How about eliminateing all three sides and we can have one big furball.How about a beer.How about go cut the grass.How about only one plane for every one.How about them Yankees.How about perk everything.How about jam sandwichs.How about new maps.How about old maps.How about small maps.How about big maps.How about no maps.How about TT.How about FT.How about down town.How about big squads.How about squads of squads.How about side switching.How about not side switching.How about another beer.How about do I stop this.How about help me.How about did I get here.How about my fingers cramping.How about call 911.How about god this hurts.
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Originally posted by Platano
IF YOU CHOOSE NOT TO SWITCH, THERE IS NO ARGUEMENT !!!
Blankit statement, simplistic in your face answer, same ol crap you side switchin don't fly in a squad furballers always say.
At least come up with something new to say, My god, not everyone plays this game just for furballin.
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Other than switching countries, the only other solution I could think of would be to have country number limits as well. Maybe before you log into an arena, you choose your the country you want to fly for. If an arena is full, but one country is outnumbered, you could still join that arena....if you fly the outnumbered side (the country you choose). Of course you could switch countries, only if moving to the lower side. Just a thought, still not perfect, but a thought. So basically works the same now, but allows you to log into in an arena that is full, if flying for the low numbered side. If sides are relatively even, feature disabled.
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Originally posted by yanksfan
Blankit statement, simplistic in your face answer, same ol crap you side switchin don't fly in a squad furballers always say.
At least come up with something new to say, My god, not everyone plays this game just for furballin.
What's furballing have to do with it? I fly in a squad, and we switch countries in order to fly together. It's not friggin' rocket science. Stupid toolshedding hordemonkey.
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Without more exposure for the trainers, advanced tutorials, and a willingness in the newb and veteran community to learn and teach , this game with continue to degenerate from an incredible massively multi player online combat flight simulation into a pointless non combative "wtf is an acm" circle jerk.
I would say the community either has to help the new guys appreciate the art of air combat, or we need hitech to step in and put some more walls up.
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The arena limits are the only time I have logged to go do something else because I can't fly with friends. Generally we would have a evening full of fun but tonite would could not all get together and we all logged. Don't get me wrong I love this game but the best part of it is flying with friends. I hear just relog and try again. Sometimes that works. When you have a hour or so of free time you don't want to spend it trying to get your buddies all in the same room. To me this game is about friends. I would not fly with out my friends online. Its not the same when you can't fly together.
Hoovers:cool:
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Originally posted by SlapShot
That was its basic premise ... now I believe that it encourages arena switching (primarily within Late War only) more than side switching.
Agreed.
I predicted it would happen just after the arena split.
Simple human nature, can't change it, not matter what you 'offer' as an incentive, and ENY is hardly an incentive.
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Originally posted by Kev367th
Agreed.
I predicted it would happen just after the arena split.
Simple human nature, can't change it, not matter what you 'offer' as an incentive, and ENY is hardly an incentive.
so did i.... hence all the :furious and all the :cry
still aint fixed :huh
luckly for me i only play offpeak now
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
What's furballing have to do with it? I fly in a squad, and we switch countries in order to fly together. It's not friggin' rocket science. Stupid toolshedding hordemonkey.
First of all, im niether a horde monkey, or tool shedder, im an alt monkey thank you.
secondly arena limits, eny, split arenas, maps..big small, old, new, or tangarine in color, i don't care.
What dose bug the heck out of me is people who don't have enough going on between the ears to come up with anything other then the standard answer.
Switch countrys.
horde monkey
toolshedder
the list goes on, im sure you know it well
my point is that their are many ways to play this game, one is no more valid then another, i don't know how to fix this, obviously it is broken due to the number of complaints about it.
im just tired of the same ol sarcastic simplistic out of the box, repeated to death, cause you don't have answer, answer.
The fact is the biggest thing that makes the game fun, is the friends i have made. if you have to plot and plan to fly with freinds, not just squaddies
sometimes its easier to just go watch tv after working a 13 hour day.
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
It's not friggin' rocket science. Stupid toolshedding hordemonkey.
:huh
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Originally posted by yanksfan
First of all, im niether a horde monkey, or tool shedder, im an alt monkey thank you.
secondly arena limits, eny, split arenas, maps..big small, old, new, or tangarine in color, i don't care.
What dose bug the heck out of me is people who don't have enough going on between the ears to come up with anything other then the standard answer.
Switch countrys.
horde monkey
toolshedder
the list goes on, im sure you know it well
my point is that their are many ways to play this game, one is no more valid then another, i don't know how to fix this, obviously it is broken due to the number of complaints about it.
im just tired of the same ol sarcastic simplistic out of the box, repeated to death, cause you don't have answer, answer.
The fact is the biggest thing that makes the game fun, is the friends i have made. if you have to plot and plan to fly with freinds, not just squaddies
sometimes its easier to just go watch tv after working a 13 hour day.
HERE! HERE! :aok
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Originally posted by yanksfan
First of all, im niether a horde monkey, or tool shedder, im an alt monkey thank you.
Just using the same logic that you used with regard to those who like the setup.
Originally posted by yanksfan
What dose bug the heck out of me is people who don't have enough going on between the ears to come up with anything other then the standard answer.
Switch countrys.
horde monkey
toolshedder
the list goes on, im sure you know it well
my point is that their are many ways to play this game, one is no more valid then another, i don't know how to fix this, obviously it is broken due to the number of complaints about it.
im just tired of the same ol sarcastic simplistic out of the box, repeated to death, cause you don't have answer, answer.
You mean like 100 threads where people chant "get rid of ENY" or "get rid of split arenas", but can't offer a workable alternative?
Hello, irony.
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and Hub you could have ended with ...........
Originally posted by yanksfan
.....The fact is the biggest thing that makes the game fun, is the friends i have made. if you have to plot and plan to fly with freinds, not just squaddies
sometimes its easier to just go watch tv after working a 13 hour day.
"Friends can't be that important to ya if ya can't handle jumping through a couple of hoops for them!"
:D
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
Just using the same logic that you used with regard to those who like the setup.
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Those who like the setup, and are perfectly happy to continue with out reguard for those who don't, will be flying with each other and squeekers real soon.
HTC can not disreguard the will of the VAST majority of subscribers in favor of a very mouthy minority who attack anyone who protests or vents their frustration here.
You have no idea what my logic is,personally as i have said b4, Eny is like communism, it simply dosen't work, we all would be better off without it.
I personally don't have a problem changeing sides, i have friends thru out the community, but some not all but some change sides so they can fly ubber planes aganst lesser rides,not knocking them, just another way of gameing the game.
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You mean like 100 threads where people chant "get rid of ENY" or "get rid of split arenas", but can't offer a workable alternative?
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I have heard many idea's, some better then others, all need work, but plenty of them, the problem is any time anyone has an idea it never gets discussed because people like your self won't listen to any point of veiw that conflicks with your opinion. instead you attack, sarcasm, your simple lil 'just change sides' thing, if all else fails you go right to name calling. I don't mean you personally but the mouthy minarity as a whole.
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Hello, irony.
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You wanna talk irony, the next clip you post on here, im sure won't be anything the least bit constructive, I'm sure your already thinking of whitty lil insults to change the topic.
In short, why can't you just listen to what people have to say rather then spin their comments aganst them, insult them, or try and invalidate their opinions with your sarcasm.
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Where is this vast majority who are ready to walk out? Why did they stick around this long if they're so miserable?
You're right on one thing; I have no idea what your logic is. Asking that a game to be changed so that the side with an overwhelming number of players has no restrictions? I definitely don't see the logic.
I do listen to people's ideas; even the really bad ones. If that weren't the case, I wouldn't have replied in this thread with helpful suggestions to avoid ENY restrictions.
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
Where is this vast majority who are ready to walk out? Why did they stick around this long if they're so miserable?
You're right on one thing; I have no idea what your logic is. Asking that a game to be changed so that the side with an overwhelming number of players has no restrictions? I definitely don't see the logic.
Perfectly stated, if the whiners continue to "threaten to leave", then nut up and leave.
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Originally posted by yanksfan
You wanna talk irony, the next clip you post on here, im sure won't be anything the least bit constructive, I'm sure your already thinking of whitty lil insults to change the topic.
In short, why can't you just listen to what people have to say rather then spin their comments aganst them, insult them, or try and invalidate their opinions with your sarcasm.
In short, How many more threads are needed until the "Whiners" become silent on the issue?
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Bring back the old MA :aok
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
Where is this vast majority who are ready to walk out? Why did they stick around this long if they're so miserable?
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I never threaetend to leave,never suggested there would be a mass desertion, but you can't possibly think this problem is doing anything good for vet retension.
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You're right on one thing; I have no idea what your logic is. Asking that a game to be changed so that the side with an overwhelming number of players has no restrictions? I definitely don't see the logic.
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You said you were following my logic.i agree ,should be some kinda way to balance sides evenly or at least more so, without eny restrictions on plane sets tho.
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I do listen to people's ideas; even the really bad ones. If that weren't the case, I wouldn't have replied in this thread with helpful suggestions to avoid ENY restrictions.
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Repeatedly telling frustrated people to "just switch sides" only frustrates them more, not helpful.
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look pal, my only beef with you or anyone, is the simplistic manner in which you tell people to shut up., i could care less about eny or maps, or anything like that, but I just can't stand it when peoples opinions are suppressed by the mob, Over and over again I see people express a thought, comment ,concern, frustration, or even a whine or two. have it thrown back in there face and get berated for openning their mouth, and it's always the same lil hollier then tho %#$@@#$#%'s that never have anything constructive to say.
maybe a little mutual respect and common politeness may be in order.
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Originally posted by Masherbrum
In short, How many more threads are needed until the "Whiners" become silent on the issue?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------That is a very sad thing to say>
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Originally posted by yanksfan
........ Over and over again I see people express a thought, comment ,concern, frustration, or even a whine or two.
This may be the problem, tho I'm sure you didn't mean it this way, "people express a thought, comment ,concern, frustration, or even a whine or two, Over and over again !!! its posted over and over again, every comment, whine etc. etc etc. Some poeple just get feed up with hearing it over and over. If some of these people ran a search in stead of dredging up the same old fights over and over it would be a much quiter place on these boards.
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Originally posted by The Fugitive
This may be the problem, tho I'm sure you didn't mean it this way, "people express a thought, comment ,concern, frustration, or even a whine or two, Over and over again !!! its posted over and over again, every comment, whine etc. etc etc. Some poeple just get feed up with hearing it over and over. If some of these people ran a search in stead of dredging up the same old fights over and over it would be a much quiter place on these boards.
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Well i suppose there is some wisdom in your words. However, a little respect goes along way to calm disgruntled souls. Thats all I'm saying, i do tend to get fired up, and I don't mean to offend, but i really can't stand to see a voice being suppressed.
There is no way to please all the people all the time.........yada yada.
this system is not working to well, some like, others don't.
"S"
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Originally posted by yanksfan
I never threaetend to leave,never suggested there would be a mass desertion, but you can't possibly think this problem is doing anything good for vet retension.
Yes, you did ,Originally posted by yanksfan
Those who like the setup, and are perfectly happy to continue with out reguard for those who don't, will be flying with each other and squeekers real soon.
and yes, I do. If HTC changes anything (especially something like this that makes so many people whine), then he must have been losing money before, since there's no reason to anger your customers, unless it's something which will make more customers happy, or bring more customers in. Since he hasn't changed it back, and says they've got more customers than ever (and more people playing than ever before), I have to logically assume that this situation is better for business, and therefore is retaining more people.
Originally posted by yanksfan
look pal, my only beef with you or anyone, is the simplistic manner in which you tell people to shut up., i could care less about eny or maps, or anything like that, but I just can't stand it when peoples opinions are suppressed by the mob, Over and over again I see people express a thought, comment ,concern, frustration, or even a whine or two. have it thrown back in there face and get berated for openning their mouth, and it's always the same lil hollier then tho %#$@@#$#%'s that never have anything constructive to say.
maybe a little mutual respect and common politeness may be in order.
:rolleyes: Yeah, funny, I have pretty much the same opinion of your posts. Now that's irony.
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quote:
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Originally posted by yanksfan
Those who like the setup, and are perfectly happy to continue with out reguard for those who don't, will be flying with each other and squeekers real soon.
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Maybe I did, not in so many words, but i guess i did, not what i ment to say exactly.but now that i read it again , i see your point.
and as far as HTC goes, marketing for profit and growth does not nessasarily go hand in hand with better game play.
And if everyone was so happy,we wouldn't have this conversation.
"S"
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Originally posted by yanksfan
And if everyone was so happy,we ...
would be living in Shangri-La in a state of Nirvana.
Point being ... HTC will NEVER EVER make everyone happy ... I repeat NEVER EVER ... it's impossible in the genre.
Any decision he makes will piss off some faction ... his goal is to appease the majority ... that is all he can do and seeing that this game is bigger than it has ever been ... I think at this juncture ... he has appeased the majority.
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Actually, it seems to me that ENY doesn't noticably encourage EITHER side switching or an arena change - what it mostly seems to do is encourage sitting in the tower periodically checking back to see if it's dropped while you are waiting for "your" ride, or bellyaching about it over country radio ...
BaldEagl would like to fly with his mates, and either can't get into the arena where they are already playing, or if he does get in there, can't choose a ride he wants to fly. In and of itself, not unreasonable things he wants.
If was to suggest a change at this point, It would be to add a perk bonus/cost to changing sides based upon the numbers. Perhaps something on the order of a bonus of 2 x ENY as an incentive, and perhaps a smaller bite (1/2 x ENY) to change to the higher numbered side. (Otherwise, people might refuse to change to another country knowing that they'll eventually be switching back to fly with friends, and not wanting to risk a loss of perks to switch back.)
If this worked, it would encourage more people to change sides and balance things out. And if the people playing in an arena balance the arenas themselves, it eliminates a lot of issues.
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We need simplification, not more complexity. Get rid of squads.
If squads are eliminated players will not worry as much about which arena they are in.
Players will have to work with who ever is on line to accomplish complex tasks.
Players will be exposed to more ways of doing things.
Players will get to know a greater number of other players.
Comraderie amoungst players will increase.
Squads are elitist.
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Originally posted by VERTEX
We need simplification, not more complexity. Get rid of squads.
If squads are eliminated players will not worry as much about which arena they are in.
Players will have to work with who ever is on line to accomplish complex tasks.
Players will be exposed to more ways of doing things.
Players will get to know a greater number of other players.
Comraderie amoungst players will increase.
Squads are elitist.
Squads are and will continue to be the 'backbone' of AH.
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Originally posted by Kev367th
Squads are and will continue to be the 'backbone' of AH.
I'm sure they will, but the very existence of squads does in many respects promote a mindset that has negative effects on the game.
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Squads =Good things
Caps=Bad things
Baldeagle= a good thing!
Sir!
999000
BTW the enemy thing is really crap!
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OK, I didn't need to do a search to see what else has been written on this subject. I've read them all along the way. That doesn't mean that if you feel there's something wrong with the current way things are done you shouldn't post your opinion (again) whether or not you have "the answer".
Part of my post was in simple frustration. Not getting to get into the arena that my squad-mates were in. Whether we acually fly together or not is immaterial. The radio banter is as fun as the working together part and after two weeks of this I was tired of never getting to fly with them.
Solution: Always allow someone to log into the arena if they have squad-mates already logged in, regardless of whether the arena is "full" or not.
Beyond that I do see problems. Being forced into the other arena that night meant i had to join the hoard. I normally don't care about ENY because I fly so many different planes I'll find a way around it but I've recently been flying the Yak-9U and was really looking forward to taking one for a spin. ENY was 22+ so that wasn't going to happen and I couldn't even get into the other arena.
Solution: Always allow someone into the arena if their country is out-manned, regardless of whether the arena is "full" or not.
As I said, I usually don't care about ENY but many people do. Someone also stated that that night 50 Bish logged out of Orange when things were'nt going well and logged into Blue. I saw them all in Blue.
Solution: Restrict access to arenas (except as noted above) if it will significantly increase a county imbalance.
People complain about the "spys" and CV hijackers.
Solution: Return to 24 hours before being able to change countries. This might not eliminate this but it will at least make them think twice before commiting.
I posted some other ideas above and saw several decent ideas posted in this thread. Here's another one:
Want to get into the full arena? Pay for it with perks. The price goes up the more over-filled it is.
Want to fly what you want to fly? Pay for it with perks in some proportion to where ENY is at.
I'm just coming up with this stuff off the top of my head. I haven't even put much thought into it and maybe these aren't good ideas but I think there are workable solutions that could be better than what we have now.
The bigger problem I see is that none of them will ever get to see the light of day or be included in an honest discussion because as soon as the topic is approched the "whiner police" storm in, squelching the thread.
Just because something "is" doesn't mean it can't be improved.
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The point I am trying to make is that if players had a more open mind about changing countries and flying with people they normally fight against, the cohesiveness of the community would increase.
It can be a lot of fun to fly with guys who have been shooting you down for years, often those players are human beings as well, and it can be very enjoyable discovering that. Squad loyalty seems to be getting in the way of people experimenting a little with who they fly with. Or whining when they can't fly with a certain group, ie squad mates.
Live a little, try new things, try a different country from time to time.
If we all did this even just a bit, eny and arena caps would become insignificant.
Open mindedness is a good thing, really.
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**** that, this is a game- who wants to lighten up and have fun when we can scream about how much everything sucks?
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
**** that, this is a game- who wants to lighten up and have fun when we can scream about how much everything sucks?
i don't recall anyone screaming.
has anyone here screamed that i don't know about?
how much fun is it for you to speak to people the way that you do hubs? must be a riot.
:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
**** that, this is a game- who wants to lighten up and have fun when we can scream about how much everything sucks?
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i don't remember anyone saying everything sucked.
You just heard some good ideas, not perfected, but unbalanced arena entry rules would be an excelent idea which would effectively remove the need for eny.
this would go a long way to really making everyone happy. and after all isn't balance what this is really all about.
how about some thoughts along these lines, without the sarcasm and name calling
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I've been listening to ENY and arena split whines since the days they were introduced, and screaming is an appropriate descriptive.
I don't have any suggestions for you folks other than learning to be a little more flexible, and a little less demanding, because I don't see a problem with either ENY or split arenas. If you can't fly with the horde/your squad/your favorite plane, adapt a little bit. This "fix this crap HT i payz my money i sayz what goes around here" mindset doesn't earn the slightest bit of sympathy from me, and that's really how I view all of these types of threads.
Sorry I can't be more supportive, but I think the problem is your mindset, not the game.
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
I've been listening to ENY and arena split whines since the days they were introduced, and screaming is an appropriate descriptive.
I don't have any suggestions for you folks other than learning to be a little more flexible, and a little less demanding, because I don't see a problem with either ENY or split arenas. If you can't fly with the horde/your squad/your favorite plane, adapt a little bit. This "fix this crap HT i payz my money i sayz what goes around here" mindset doesn't earn the slightest bit of sympathy from me, and that's really how I view all of these types of threads.
Sorry I can't be more supportive, but I think the problem is your mindset, not the game.
I can respect that..."S"
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OK, now that hubs is done, how would an arena entry system work to keep sides balanced.
allow low side countrys to enter until sides even?
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Originally posted by yanksfan
OK, now that hubs is done, how would an arena entry system work to keep sides balanced.
allow low side countrys to enter until sides even?
Personally I would hate to see a system that is that restricitve. After all I absolutely love being on the outnumbered side. And I know I am not the only one.
Also, people would be even less be able to fly with their friends.
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damm yall type too much :noid
I cant read all that so just scrolled to the end....:D
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Originally posted by SlapShot
... epecially since I mainly fly the FM2.
I work a guy over, or am working a guy over, and there are tons of squeeking heros that feel the need to swoop right in and snatch my "food" right out from underneath me.
ABSOLUTELY agreed (caps for dramatic effect). This of course only creates a vicious cycle. Since you want to make sure the next kill you work is not stolen by a band of cannon-equipped, 400mph cruise speed noobs, you sometimes find yourself flying one of them.. at which point is not fun anymore, and close the game and get back to work. I have yet to do that, but getting 5 assists per sortie because someone else was kind enough to triple make sure your pray was going down by pumping 100 rounds of 20mm on it, kindda gets old.
Every now and then though you get those odd good fights that just keep me coming back way too often :)
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
I've been listening to ENY and arena split whines since the days they were introduced, and screaming is an appropriate descriptive.
I don't have any suggestions for you folks other than learning to be a little more flexible, and a little less demanding, because I don't see a problem with either ENY or split arenas. If you can't fly with the horde/your squad/your favorite plane, adapt a little bit. This "fix this crap HT i payz my money i sayz what goes around here" mindset doesn't earn the slightest bit of sympathy from me, and that's really how I view all of these types of threads.
Sorry I can't be more supportive, but I think the problem is your mindset, not the game.
I have a problem with the way you are thinking. Surely, people can adapt to anything. You can adapt to getting a 50% pay cut, living under a bridge, driving a Pinto, eating rice for every meal, every day. But, if you could avoid all of that, I am sure you would. I dont see the problem with highlighting issues and perhaps involve the community in maybe working out at least a roadmap to address some of them. What you are describing in your post is conformism. We know what happens to businesses who get too comfortable and stop improving (or "improve" the wrong things): they get eaten by the competition. Happens all the time. Taking the time to post and bring out issues is a good thing. We obviously enjoy this game, and only care to make it better. Sure, HiTech can't cater for everyone, but if something is clearly not working as well as it perhaps should, such as this issue, then whats the harm in discussing it and bringing new ideas? Its in our best interest, and HiTech's best interest, to keep on improving the game and the user experience. I am happy to be patient and remain a customer of HiTech's while things are improved, but it is nice to know that working on issues the community experience is at least in the roadmap.
Emu
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
I've been listening to ENY and arena split whines since the days they were introduced, and screaming is an appropriate descriptive.
I don't have any suggestions for you folks other than learning to be a little more flexible, and a little less demanding, because I don't see a problem with either ENY or split arenas. If you can't fly with the horde/your squad/your favorite plane, adapt a little bit. This "fix this crap HT i payz my money i sayz what goes around here" mindset doesn't earn the slightest bit of sympathy from me, and that's really how I view all of these types of threads.
Sorry I can't be more supportive, but I think the problem is your mindset, not the game.
I've been listening to them too. Until the other night it really never bothered me much.
I don't mind the ENY system but, as I've stated on many occasions, I think it should be localized within the map to a front or a given square area (say 9 sectors) rather than applied arena-wide.
I also don't mind the arena splits and forsee that a third LWA may be needed in the future (although I would like to see the big maps return now that these are filling up) but if/when it is the imbalance problems are just going to get worse if nothings done.
I don't think I was being demanding in my first post and I certainly never said anthing even remotly like "fix this crap HT i payz my money i sayz what goes around here". I did however suggest that there must be a better way of achieving the same objectives (balanced play and fun for all).
Lusche, I don't think allowing players to join the arena where their country is outnumbered significantly is restrictive to anyone. I also like to fly for the underdog country at times just as I wanted to the night I posted this (well, plus I wanted to fly the Yak). Even if this were allowed I'd bet that most nights you could find a front or a field where you were the underdog. The only reason it might be upsetting at that point is the perk modifier is no longer so far in your favor. Maybe there's a hard stop, where if the "losing" country is within x% then the free entry stops.
Personally, I think for every "whine" (other than xyz HO'd me or vulched me or...) if all of us put together our collective brainpower we could come up with a reasonable solution to end it. Then it's up to HT to decide if he thinks it's viable for his business from a subscriber retention and from a development standpoint.
To date, the only way to raise the visibility of what some considered to be issues was to post another thread and to keep doing it until something was done. This puts the onus on HT and staff while trying to also develop planes, terraines, maps, etc. If we, as a community, worked on these things together rather than fighting each other we could limit this to about 3-4 on-going threads until a resolution is achieved for HT to consider. I have to believe we probably even have a programmer or two in the crowd who could advise us as to development feasability. Personally, I'd find this much more stimulating and fun than bickering and we'd all end up with a better gaming experience (imagine it being even better :) ).
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Originally posted by BaldEagl
I've been listening to them too. Until the other night it really never bothered me much.
I don't mind the ENY system but, as I've stated on many occasions, I think it should be localized within the map to a front or a given square area (say 9 sectors) rather than applied arena-wide.
I also don't mind the arena splits and forsee that a third LWA may be needed in the future (although I would like to see the big maps return now that these are filling up) but if/when it is the imbalance problems are just going to get worse if nothings done.
I don't think I was being demanding in my first post and I certainly never said anthing even remotly like "fix this crap HT i payz my money i sayz what goes around here". I did however suggest that there must be a better way of achieving the same objectives (balanced play and fun for all).
Lusche, I don't think allowing players to join the arena where their country is outnumbered significantly is restrictive to anyone. I also like to fly for the underdog country at times just as I wanted to the night I posted this (well, plus I wanted to fly the Yak). Even if this were allowed I'd bet that most nights you could find a front or a field where you were the underdog. The only reason it might be upsetting at that point is the perk modifier is no longer so far in your favor. Maybe there's a hard stop, where if the "losing" country is within x% then the free entry stops.
Personally, I think for every "whine" (other than xyz HO'd me or vulched me or...) if all of us put together our collective brainpower we could come up with a reasonable solution to end it. Then it's up to HT to decide if he thinks it's viable for his business from a subscriber retention and from a development standpoint.
To date, the only way to raise the visibility of what some considered to be issues was to post another thread and to keep doing it until something was done. This puts the onus on HT and staff while trying to also develop planes, terraines, maps, etc. If we, as a community, worked on these things together rather than fighting each other we could limit this to about 3-4 on-going threads until a resolution is achieved for HT to consider. I have to believe we probably even have a programmer or two in the crowd who could advise us as to development feasability. Personally, I'd find this much more stimulating and fun than bickering and we'd all end up with a better gaming experience (imagine it being even better :) ).
Very well said, "S", I agree completely.
If eveyone took a tone of respect, ideas would flow in and would have a place to be modified and grow into something useful. I think we can come up with some Ideas to improve game play for everyone.
Anytime opinions are repressed growth stops. keep the ideas coming. I think a "balanced arena entry system" is the best idea i have heard and would love to see it developed here.
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Where do you guys get all the energy for all this useless discussions?
Amazes me.
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Solution: Always allow someone to log into the arena if they have squad-mates already logged in, regardless of whether the arena is "full" or not.
So squads get preferential treatment ? Kinda bolsters VERTEX's point. What if all the BOPs wanted to log into one arena ... for one country ... and that country already has a huge numbers advantage. This would only add fuel to the fire.
Squads already have the ability to "balance" ... but for the most part, they don't.
Solution: Always allow someone into the arena if their country is out-manned, regardless of whether the arena is "full" or not.
This has been brought forth in the past. This is truly the only viable solution.
Solution: Restrict access to arenas (except as noted above) if it will significantly increase a county imbalance.
Yes this does fit the solution above ... except you want squads to be able to circumvent this ... what is good for one ... is good for the other.
Solution: Return to 24 hours before being able to change countries. This might not eliminate this but it will at least make them think twice before commiting.
In the scheme of things ... CV hijacking is such small potatoes ... allowing people, who try to balance the arena(s) to change every is much more important.
Want to get into the full arena? Pay for it with perks. The price goes up the more over-filled it is.
The price would have to be pretty steep and the cost would, IMO, have to be applied to ALL categories ... so why do it at all ?
So people can change their whining about locked arena(s) to "I can't believe that it costs X persk to get into X arena". HT you better change that or I am going to quit"
Want to fly what you want to fly? Pay for it with perks in some proportion to where ENY is at.
Again, the price would have to be pretty steep ... so why do it at all ?
So people can change their whining about ENY to "I can't believe that X plane costs X perks". HT you better change that or I am going to quit"
Can't fault you for trying BaldEagl, but from what I can see, some suggestions just move the problem from one area to another area and never ever solving the problem.
The one and only true solution would be to allow people to join a "full" arena only if they chose one of the lower populated countries ... but guess what ... people would still piss 'n moan about that too.
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Originally posted by yanksfan
OK, now that hubs is done, how would an arena entry system work to keep sides balanced.
allow low side countrys to enter until sides even?
This is what I posted back in September of last year that addresses this point ... as hub pointed out ... some of us have been reading the whining and crying since September.
Originally posted by SlapShot
Let's say that the arena max population is 300 in LW1 for example.
Current counts ...
Rooks have 150
Bish have 80
Knights have 70
So if I choose LW1 I am presented with a popup that provides me a selective choice to join either the Bish or the Knights ... Rooks are not available due to their superior numbers.
Would this not help some people who want to fly in that arena, who really don't care what country that they fly for and at the same time direct people to help create a balance ... if they want to fly in that particular arena ?
This would allow the arena max to be surpassed, but also persuade others to balance.
So when someone chooses the arena you do ...
If current_arena_pop >= arena_max ... display country choice panel
The country choice panel would display, in this case, Bish or Knights.
Now in the instance when all countries have equal numbers or equality in numbers with say +/- 10 people ... then the popup would not appear and they would go to the country that they last flew for in the arena.
Rooks have 110
Bish have 90
Knights have 100
This would not produce the popup and the player would just directly join the last country that they flew for.
Would this not make the joining of a particular arena fluid and dynamic and at the same time allow the population max to dynamically change if people choose to do the right thing ?
HiTech's response ...
Originally posted by hitech
SlapShot:
My thoughts.
I would change one thing, I wouldn't do it only at max, but wrather anytime ENY is 5 or above.
Im fairly certain the idea would work to maintain balanced sides.
It is also more restrictive than the current system.
Im fairly sure even more would complain about it vs the current system.
One thing to rember about the ENY system.
If you rember when it was implemented, it took a while for things to balance out, I view it as a wave dampener, with the change we did last week we threw one big rock in a pool,and waves are bouncing back and forth from the sides,it is going to take a while for the waves to disipate.
I.E. Im not realy sure anything needs to change yet, just need to wait for the waves to become very small riples.
HiTech
My following response ...
Originally posted by SlapShot
Applying the logic to ENY and/or MAX ... wouldn't that make it more restrictive ?
No need to apply it to ENY. Giving people the choice to join the less populated countries would, by default, fix the ENY as numbers approached "balance".
Why would this be more restrictive ? ... One of the goals is to surpass the MAX parameter that is currently being used, which is what I have seen/hear from alot of the posts that I have read is a restriction causing much angst ... lots want into the LW arena, but are being refused because MAX has been reached ... with this, MAX can be surpassed dynamically, as long as balance (within a +/-) is maintained ... which is less restrictive I would think ... no ?
I understand the concept of the big rock in the pond thing ... as I too develop a software product and have thrown quite a few rocks too.
I didn't spend hours thinking about it ... it just hit me and considering whats going on at the moment I briefly fleshed it out as I wrote it (just like writing coad).
Maybe as the waves decrease in size, it might not be appropriate ... just trying to help.
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Originally posted by Emu
I have a problem with the way you are thinking. Surely, people can adapt to anything. You can adapt to getting a 50% pay cut, living under a bridge, driving a Pinto, eating rice for every meal, every day. But, if you could avoid all of that, I am sure you would. I dont see the problem with highlighting issues and perhaps involve the community in maybe working out at least a roadmap to address some of them. What you are describing in your post is conformism. We know what happens to businesses who get too comfortable and stop improving (or "improve" the wrong things): they get eaten by the competition. Happens all the time. Taking the time to post and bring out issues is a good thing. We obviously enjoy this game, and only care to make it better. Sure, HiTech can't cater for everyone, but if something is clearly not working as well as it perhaps should, such as this issue, then whats the harm in discussing it and bringing new ideas? Its in our best interest, and HiTech's best interest, to keep on improving the game and the user experience. I am happy to be patient and remain a customer of HiTech's while things are improved, but it is nice to know that working on issues the community experience is at least in the roadmap.
Emu
This problem has all been fleshed out in great detail ...
800+ posts
http://forums.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=194277&highlight=arena+balance
1000+ posts
http://forums.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=187226&highlight=arena+balance
My post that I quoted above ...
http://forums.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=187937&highlight=arena+balance
A simple search using ... "arena balance" will give you more reading and discussion on this topic that would keep you busy for quite some time.
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I did however suggest that there must be a better way of achieving the same objectives (balanced play and fun for all).
You would be more successful getting blood from a stone.
Maybe ... balanced play and fun for most.
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About the only thing I can think of -
ENY in it's current form is NOT working:
a) It's not encouraging people to switch sides in enough numbers to make a great deal of difference.
b) The waves are as big as they were at the start, in fact ENY limits are worse than under a single arena.
c) Arena switching is contributing to it.
d) ENY limits swing wildly in very short spaces of time.
e) It's obvious by now the MAJORITY won't switch.
So take it from there.
[edit] On the face of it allowing people to log into a capped arena on the low numbers country sounds good ----- BUT
1) There still isn't enough willing to switch sides in the first place.
2) Would need a way of stopping them immediately swapping to the higher side once in.
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Originally posted by Kev367th
[edit] On the face of it allowing people to log into a capped arena on the low numbers country sounds good ----- BUT
1) There still isn't enough willing to switch sides in the first place.
2) Would need a way of stopping them immediately swapping to the higher side once in.
100% agreement.
Also, limiting them from switching sides then prevents the minority who does try to create some balance from doing so, which gives you the same problem you had in the first place.
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ENY wasn't designed to "force" people to switch sides, it was to give the more populated side a handycap. Switching sides is just an option for those who can't handle flying the older, less uber rides.
I think the idea of letting people log into the under populated countries has merit. Switching countries once in the arena would have to be turned off. Using the same hour limit, you could log out of the arena, then back in getting the choice of which under populated country there was again to switch.
As it stands now, once an arena hits it cap, the numbers are stagnet till the other arenas population gets high enough to open more room. This doesn't really allow any "evening of the sides" as it were.
There will still be those that will cry that they can't get into the arena to fly with there squads, but it may help to even up the side which in the end would take care of the ENY whines.
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Originally posted by VERTEX
We need simplification, not more complexity. Get rid of squads.
If squads are eliminated players will not worry as much about which arena they are in.
Squads are what kept the lights on in the early days here. They are also the reason most players stay in the game. I am rejoining to help my 12 year old nephew learn this game after leaving for 6 months over the arena caps after playing here 5 years.
I have been in the same squad for many years (LONG before we moved to this game) If I cant fly with them when I want to without switching to a barren arena, no point in paying to play the game.
Squads are the biggest reason for player retention, if they are eliminated, you can start looking for another game to play because we will move elsewhere.
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Originally posted by SlapShot
This problem has all been fleshed out in great detail ...
800+ posts
http://forums.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=194277&highlight=arena+balance
1000+ posts
http://forums.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=187226&highlight=arena+balance
My post that I quoted above ...
http://forums.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=187937&highlight=arena+balance
A simple search using ... "arena balance" will give you more reading and discussion on this topic that would keep you busy for quite some time.
Of course if all the posts of people calling others whiners were removed they would have been about 2/3 shorter in length :rolleyes:
I can't help but laugh at all the people who whine about whiners, this bbs has definitely gone way downhill in the last few years....you get one posted complaint (whine to some) and then 10 posts from the bbs police telling them to stop whining or that the door is ------> that way.....priceless :aok
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After thinking it over, I think I'd suggest making a few changes (additions) to the current cap/eny system.
The first addition I would make would be to allow each squadron leader to choose a single home arena and a default side for the squadron. The arena chosen would never deny the squadron members entry, regardless of current arena caps, and would always start the player on the default side without any side change penalty or bonus as described below (unless they've recently switched, in which case they remain on the country recently switched to). To prevent gaming it, this setting could only be changed once a day or perhaps even less frequently. For all practical purposes at this time it would realistically only be applicable to the late war arenas since you are never locked out of any of the other arenas due to cap restrictions, but should that change in the future each squadron commander could choose something other than one of the 2 LW arenas to guarantee his squadron can always join up in their particular "home" arena. Yes, this caters to the squadrons, but in a pretty limited fashion.
The second addition I would make is to add two multipliers to the arena settings. The first is a side switch bonus, where if a player changes sides TO the weakest side, they are given a perk point bonus of current ENY times this MULTIPLIER. I'd set this MULTIPLIER to 2 to start. (Eny of 25 means a 50 point bonus for changing to the weakest side).
The second multiplier is the inverse of the first - if a player wants to change AWAY from the weakest side, they are CHARGED ENY times this second multiplier to do so. I'd set this to half. (ENY of 25 means a charge of 12.5 to change away from the weakest side).
The reason you need the bonus and charge to be asymetrical is that if it's not, there is much less incentive for people to change to the weaker side. If I know the squad is flying in an hour and half, I might endure player suspicions and change to the weakest side if it gave me perk points - but wouldn't if I knew it might cost me just as many - or perhaps more - to change back later to join with the squad if the numbers are still out of whack.
The third addition I'd make is to add another 2 arena settings to be used for determining Inactive status. Any player who's vehicle has not moved (or is in the tower) and who has not pressed a key or moved the mouse for the length of the first timer should be rostered as "Inactive". Inactive player's should be subtracted from ENY calculations. Additionally, any player who has been inactive and is not "in flight" for longer than the second timer should be dropped from the arena. I'd set these to 5 minutes for the first, and 10 minutes for the second, allowing a player to camp in the tower for a total of 15 minutes AFK before they are autologged. Using Inactive status as defined above would make it very hard to game unlike either the current methodology where total users per country are used or the oft requested " use "in flight" only for ENY calculations".
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For smaller squads, having a "home" country/arena, might be ok, but lets take the BOPs as an example. They are Bishops, they choose "orange" as their arena. Now you have 300 folk in orange, and its BOP squad night. If a good number of them show, it will show a big jump in the arena numbers. Those "having" to log into blue are now all over the BBS whining about how the numbers are over the cap, and BOPs can get in but they can't, not to mention all the other squads they have done much the same. You get three or four squads logging into orange at the same time and forget it.
Perk points are only important to newbies. After 6 months here you learn how to "perk farm", and after a few jet rides you figure out that they aren't that big a deal. Only perk ride I like is the C hog, and I have enough perk to fly it for weeks, even the way I fly ! LOL!!
I think its already been mentioned that "timers" to kick people OUT of the game isn't something HTC wants to do, after all they work very hard trying to get them IN to play the game.
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Originally posted by Ghastly
Yes, this caters to the squadrons, but in a pretty limited fashion.
It is zero restriction for any and all squads. All you have to make a squad is name it and send an invite. You are then a squad, and free from any all arena restrictions.
This is not catering to them in a limited fashion. It is just like Baldeagl's initial suggestion- "make if affect anyone but us".
As far as perks, we already have perk multipliers that greatly increase the perks earned, and decreases perk costs for the underdogs, and does the opposite for the horde. Such things will not change player behaviors, beyond being a slight reward, or a slight penalty. You can look at the current situations and see that for yourself. It might limit a few noobs who aren't really going to have an upsetting effect on gameplay to begin with, but for the vets with years old accounts, banks of tens of thousands of perks mean they aren't affected at all.
I'm not a huge fan of the timers to kick people out either. Regardless of their effects on ENY, there's no way of knowing that they're AFK, or how long they will be, and they pay for unlimited access to the servers, just like everyone else. It would be, in my mind, a huge mistake from a business perspective.
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I like the squad home arena idea. My squad is small (7 people) and only 2-5 of us are on at any one time. We don't have squad nights or anything so it's just when we run into each other we fly together.
I can understand the concern with squads as big as the BOP's but early on in AW I was CO of a 60+ member squad and if we could muster 20 for squad night that was good (I think 22 was our max one night). Maybe one of the BOPs can fill us in on what their turn-out is like.
Regardless, if you were able to change home arenas once in a while my guess is a lot of it would sort itself out. I know I'd assign us to a target rich environment as a norm (since we are a fighter squad).
As to the side swithching I think it has merit but I don't think it can be unbalanced, otherwise people will switch to the low side, wait just long enough and switch back 12.5 perks richer. I do like the idea though if the time limit to switch sides were placed back at 12 or 24 hours. Maybe you could leave the switch at 1 hour as it is now but if you switch and don't stay for 12 hours you don't get the perks.
Anyway, good ideas but probably still need a little tweaking.
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I maybe wrong, but I believe that one still has to remain within a country for 12 hours before they get "W1n teh W@rz" perks. Also, the frequency of map resets is far less than what it use to be, so the "W1n teh W@rz" perks are far and few for most.
Most who switch sides taking advantage of the 1 hour time frame could care less about perks ... I would venture to say that most probably have 1000s of perks. I am approaching the 29,000 perk barrier ... perks mean nothing to me ... but being able to switch sides to find a "fight" ... I am all over that.
I love the 1 hour time frame ... I use it to switch sides when I login to the least populated country and if numbers do swing, I can use it again to switch. Also, if I am on lone-wolfing and a squaddie logs on and wants me to come to the side he is flying on ... it's very easy.
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No Hubs, it doesn't. Read it again - it would allow the members of a squad "unlimited" entry into a SINGLE arena into a SINGLE country. If your squad's home is LWOrange/Rooks, it means your squad can all sign in and be LWOrange/Rooks. It guarantees you nothing in LWBlue (or anywhere else - not that "anywhere else" matters much right now). Just the bare minimum to meet the "be together" requirement. And of course, depending on ENY, it doesn't guarantee you anything about your squad ride - or even a plane at all. But it does make for at least one place where a squad can count on playing together.
Fugitive, I'd suggest that the system for changing/selecting the squadron's home could keep tally how any players are "homed" in each era's arena & country combinations and disallow changes that imbalance beyond a particular point. So that 300 people can't be homed in LWOrange/Rooks until at least 250 (or some reasonable number) are homed on all the other colors in each arena for the same era. Yes, this might mean that a 300 player mega - squad might not ever all be able to get all 10 of their component squads on the same arena/country. But it would mean that all squadrons of reasonable size would be able to home somewhere, all together.
Regardless of how it's done, the thought that game mechanics is throwing obstacles in the way of established squadrons scares me to a certain extent - I know of another online sim that made the mistake of forcing game mechanics on the player base that broke many long-established squadrons apart willy-nilly. It's now a shadow of it's former self, and likely doomed. Not that that was the only issue of course, but it was certainly a factor.
With respect to the perk bonuses/charges, my thought was that anything that helps a little at least helps some. Either I don't fly enough or I fly too suckily, but 50 perk points is still a LOT to me. If you already have 29,000, then no, they aren't much of an incentive.
And I'm not really a huge fan of the timers, either - I just think that they are a lesser evil than the current system where AFK players (including those that are manipulating the system) impact ENY, and to a lesser extent, arena caps.
If you are trying to enter an arena that's at cap to fly with squadmates and friends, do you think it fair that you can't get in because a guy that's been AFK for an hour is taking up a slot, locking you out? Probably not - and you'd be especially angry if you knew he was doing so just to game the game.
And if a guy has simply "parked" his account on your side for the last hour, should he be counted for ENY forcing you into ever less capable rides? The timers are a compromise to prevent the gaming that's already taking place to a certain extent.
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However, I'm just throwing out possible solutions - and if inactive players were not counted for ENY, then I'd see much less reason for dropping them out of the arena if they are in the tower. The bigger issue currently is ENY, IMO.
I do think that at times some players are jumping into the arena earlier than they otherwise would to try to reserve a spot - mostly because that's where they expect to meet up with squadmates later on.
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Problem with the pre-selected squad home arena is that you may have picked one with 50 players on when you log on.
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Originally posted by SlapShot
I maybe wrong, but I believe that one still has to remain within a country for 12 hours before they get "W1n teh W@rz" perks. Also, the frequency of map resets is far less than what it use to be, so the "W1n teh W@rz" perks are far and few for most.
You are right, it's still a 12h grace period before you can gather perks that way.
Actually, if you play on the "right" side in EW & MW you can gain a lot of that perks, because map are reset quite often, especially in EW.
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Originally posted by Mr No Name
Problem with the pre-selected squad home arena is that you may have picked one with 50 players on when you log on.
Or the same arena that every other squad in your country picked, while another country had every one of their squads pick the other arena. Worst case scenario, every rook squad is in orange, every bish squad is in blue, and the knits are split, and you wind up with country numbers like 200/100/50, and 50/100/200. No way to prevent that while giving every squad a choice.
I can guarantee the whining would be deafening when folks realized that ENY of 60 means all their squad can do is chat.
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
Or the same arena that every other squad in your country picked, while another country had every one of their squads pick the other arena. Worst case scenario, every rook squad is in orange, every bish squad is in blue, and the knits are split, and you wind up with country numbers like 200/100/50, and 50/100/200. No way to prevent that while giving every squad a choice.
I can guarantee the whining would be deafening when folks realized that ENY of 60 means all their squad can do is chat.
I read that when it hits 55 ... your chat privileges are suspended.
:noid
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SlapShot, at 29K perks it wouldn't matter to you. I usually only have ~ 1000 of each (I burn 'em off) but even at that they don't matter much to me as I know I can get more relatively quickly.
I was thinking about all the noobs that will be logging on over the summer who would be taking advantage of those perk gains from jumping back and forth. All we need is a bunch of HO'ing squeakers in 262's, Temps and C-Hogs. Now if they are willing to commit to the underdog for a while though (12-24 hours) then God bless 'em but at least it will take them a few weeks to gather enough perks to be totally dweeby.
Back to another topic I still don't see where the issue is with allowing someone to log into a full arena if their country is a massive underdog.
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Originally posted by BaldEagl
SlapShot, at 29K perks it wouldn't matter to you. I usually only have ~ 1000 of each (I burn 'em off) but even at that they don't matter much to me as I know I can get more relatively quickly.
I was thinking about all the noobs that will be logging on over the summer who would be taking advantage of those perk gains from jumping back and forth. All we need is a bunch of HO'ing squeakers in 262's, Temps and C-Hogs. Now if they are willing to commit to the underdog for a while though (12-24 hours) then God bless 'em but at least it will take them a few weeks to gather enough perks to be totally dweeby.
Back to another topic I still don't see where the issue is with allowing someone to log into a full arena if their country is a massive underdog.
I don't think that we really have to worry about squeakers taking over the skys in AH ... even if map resets were as prevelant as they use to be.
Remember ... you cannot get the perk points if you switch to the winning side, using the 1 hour switch limit ... much to the dismay of many I am sure.
I agree ... one should be able to log into a "maxed" arena, only if they choose to fly only for the underdog.
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For that to work, you'd have to prevent people from then switching to another side once they entered the arena.
If HTC were to reset the sideswitch timer when you entered a constrained arena and chose one of the "underdog" sides, then it would be at least an hour before the player could change.
That would work - as long as it doesn't waffle back and forth. (So that when I sign in I have to fly Bishop, and then 10 minutes later my squadmate isn't forced to fly Knight, while the guys already on were forced to join as Rooks. )
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i like the comments i see tonight more then last night for sure, HUBS, Slapshot, guys..."S"
I like the low side entry to balance the arena idea, but I think adding in special this and squad that, just confusses the issue and sends us back where we started from.
I think one thing at a time ,and this basic idea will all but kill two birds with one stone, ENY and uneven sides.
As everyone will agree I'm sure, one change can't make everyone happy.
But..., if one change could silence the topic of ENY and side balanceing, not to mention hordeing, porking bases, wouldn't that be great.
And Slapshot ty for pointing out the earlier threads, piticularly HT's comments. I think by now the waters have calmed a bit and he may be willing to think about it again. And with everything that was going on at that time, i do remember you talking about this b4..........."S"
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The other thing that occured to me this morning is this, as the sides even the arena limit will increase.
This is good in that then all countrys will be able to enter.
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Originally posted by BaldEagl
Here was one partial suggestion:
Had I been able to see the map names, player balances and territory balances before log-in, knowing none of my squaddies were up, I would have gone to and remained in orange. As it is, the only way I can make a decision as to which arena I want to fly in is to go into each one and look, in which time the one I end up wanting to fly in might be filled as was the case tonight.
I've made a couple more since.
Bald, I'm sure someone else passed this along, but I will on the slight chance it was missed.
From the lobby, you can type .sr and your squad roster will come up showing you the names of your squaddies and in which arenas they are.
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Originally posted by yanksfan
The other thing that occured to me this morning is this, as the sides even the arena limit will increase.
This is good in that then all countrys will be able to enter.
Actually, as it is now, as numbers in an arena rise, the caps in the other arena go up. Blue reaches 75% capacity, then orange's cap goes up. When orange hits 75%, blue's cap goes up. When blue hits 75% of the new cap, orange goes up, etc.
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Originally posted by Hap
Bald, I'm sure someone else passed this along, but I will on the slight chance it was missed.
From the lobby, you can type .sr and your squad roster will come up showing you the names of your squaddies and in which arenas they are.
I knew that and use it every time I log on. That's how I knew none of my squaddies were up that night. What I was saying is that to see what map is up in a given arena, how many of each country are flying there and how many fields each has you have to go into the arena and see.
It would be nice to have that information before you even logged into an arena. Have it available on the arena log-in screen even if it's a secondary pop-up window (like E6B by selecting an arena then right clicking for status). That way on the night in question, I could have checked both Blue and Orange, noticed Bish had high numbers in Blue but low numbers in Orange and selected Orange right away. As it was, I went into Orange, checked it out, exited, went into Blue, checked it out, exited, tried to go back to Orange and by then it was full and I couldn't get back in.
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
Actually, as it is now, as numbers in an arena rise, the caps in the other arena go up. Blue reaches 75% capacity, then orange's cap goes up. When orange hits 75%, blue's cap goes up. When blue hits 75% of the new cap, orange goes up, etc.
ok, you mean the cap in the arenas your not in rise b4 the arena your in dose. it alternates you mean.
but lets say knits are out numbered by say 30 and rooks by 20, to the bish and the arena limit is reached.
Then under our proposed system, 30 knits and 20 rooks could enter above the cap to balance the sides.
Now say sides are equal, and there are 300 in arena total, say in orange.what your saying is blue's cap will increase until it is full, then orange will again increase after that.
DO I have that right?
if thats right then i think this could work. What do you think?
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Originally posted by yanksfan
ok, you mean the cap in the arenas your not in rise b4 the arena your in dose. it alternates you mean.
Yep, basically it's leapfrogging caps.
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I really do think this system would work, i don't know if they could set it up like this,or what would be involved programing it, but i think it would be worth looking into.
That being said, i guess to HTc, it really dosen't matter what I think. lol:rofl
OK, NEXT problem please.
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you two knuckleheads may be on to something here! Great debate fellas:aok You turned a dull thread into something that deserves a serious look IMO.