Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Movie on May 14, 2007, 06:02:21 PM
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You guys think that Al-Qaida reallyhave those missing soldiers kidnapped?
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No real reason to doubt they were captured. Whether it was a bona fide al q group may be open to discussion. Either way they need to be found.
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There is no such thing as a AQ hostage. Only victims. Hope the US Military makes 'em pay.
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I hope for the best, but fear the worst...
If they are currently alive, when US/Iraqi forces close in on the building where they are being held, I think it will be all over. :( I bet they had to have been injured, no way they would have surrendered knowing what fate could come to them. I hope they don't get paraded on TV and have some barbaric execution.
Sucks
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LOL, you TARDS!!! Theres no Al-Qaeda in Iraq, Nancy Pelosi said so!:noid :noid :noid
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I think the number of troops in a patrol should be quadrupled.
How many times does something like this have to happen before tactics are reviewed? For our soldiers to be ambushed like that is inexcusable. Overpowering force is the only way to go. Shoot first and ask questions later.
Godspeed to the captured and their families.
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Originally posted by Eagler
I think the number of troops in a patrol should be quadrupled.
How many times does something like this have to happen before tactics are reviewed? For our soldiers to be ambushed like that is inexcusable. Overpowering force is the only way to go. Shoot first and ask questions later.
Godspeed to the captured and their families.
I cannot imagine the anquish these soldiers families are going through. This very scenario was always my biggest fear. The worry, fear, and dread, they are going through. The thought of having a loved ones execution videotaped and put on the internet.
I so hope they can find these guys in time.:(
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Notice how recently AQ said to back off on the search for the missing soldiers?
It must be we're getting closer... even the village Mullahs have protested about the blockade.
IMHO we need to get as ugly as the enemy.
We're not gonna win this thing with Hugs and Kisses....and this is far beyond just Iraq.
Hunker down and get yer best fist up... we're in for a long fight.
Unless yer a frikken Democrat...... Pissants.
Mac
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I know it's all very PC to say all the positive things about finding and rescuing those soldiers.
Don't think you'll find too many vets that actually have walked the streets of Baghdad able to express those PC thoughts very well. Many would probably express the hope for a quick end if they themselves were in that situation.
There is also the very real possibility they won't be found. We've two other MIA's from earlier incidents. The troops will continue to look as long as they are permitted to, as is only right, but it is a big country.
AFAIK, the 5 contractors from Crescent Security (4 American, 1 Aussie) were still missing and being held in Iraq as well since Nov 2006...... guess private contractors don't rate news though.
Unless you've actually watched those videos of the execution of captives, or seen the remains left in the streets or floating in the Tigress where they've been dumped, it's very hard to get your mind around the reality of what awaits those that become captives of the various armed groups operating in Iraq. Definitely one of those times fighting to the death would be preferable to capture.
It does sound like a light patrol. I've seen 3-up-armored HMMV patrols head out of the wire before, but my company would never run with fewer than 5 vehicles (3 HMMV's and 2 5-ton gun trucks) and a minimum of 22 to 25 men. We just did not have the weapon systems, ammo loads, well armored vehicles, or solid communications to risk running lighter than that.
That they were ambushed is not inexcusable. No matter how much surveillance resources you've got, there is just no way to watch everything in a country the size of Iraq with it's dense urban areas, and with the many ways unconventional forces can blend into a civilian population.
As Dick sez, "we went to war with the Army we had": one still primarily equipped to meet the Soviet Union on the plains of Europe.
No matter how good you are or how well equipped, the other guy only has to get lucky once to create the PR and media disaster. You can not control an area by hiding behind the wire, you have to go out and patrol, scout, escort, and develop humint resources. You have to be active. These are the risks with that.
It's not a safe business. Politicians and the general public don't ever seem to understand that. They want their cheap oil and security, but they never understand the costs of attaining those kinds of things.
That anti-American forces in Iraq pulled something like this off now does not surprise me. Adds fuel to the fire for American withdrawal, which is their immediate goal. They want to make it as ugly as they can for us now. They don't believe America has the wherewithal to stay and accomplish what it can in the region...... and they may prove to be right in the end.
Rise of the Paper Tiger.
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
There is no such thing as a AQ hostage. Only victims. Hope the US Military makes 'em pay.
Ditto in Spades.
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Originally posted by AWMac
Notice how recently AQ said to back off on the search for the missing soldiers?
It must be we're getting closer... even the village Mullahs have protested about the blockade.
IMHO we need to get as ugly as the enemy.
"We" have been. Troops call it "Going Blackwater", they can make in 1 month what the military pays in 6 months.. to do the exact same job, not have to take orders, or worry about the UCMJ. They are American "insurgents", a shadow army under contract by the State Dept.
Blackwater et al have some 100,000 "contractors" that are immune from Iraqi law, and don't fall under the UCMJ. They can do literally whatever they want.
Like shooting at random cars:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=6BDByPfIavQ
And sniping who they think the enemy is, with zero liability.. http://youtube.com/watch?v=RXgcQNsUKO0
It just so happens the owner of Blackwater is a right wing wack-job religious zealot, and long time cronie of the Bushi.
Yet another piece if the neo-cons stated goal of a "New Wirld Order".
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Not related, but check out what a .50cal sniper does to a human head, and torso, and arm.
Very Graphic:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=uzrUPQKbFI0&mode=related&search=
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God be with those guys.
to them, as well.
Do you fellas reckon that the insurgents' might move them out-country? Like over the border to Syria? I would guess that the captors are intending to use them as leverage, the same way the Viets did. So, to keep they're location secret, it would be hard to keep them in Iraq. But, That's just a guess.
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They appear to be doing damned good work in that fediddleed up God forsaken land.
Thank God for Blackwater :aok
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Originally posted by x0847Marine
"We" have been. Troops call it "Going Blackwater", they can make in 1 month what the military pays in 6 months.. to do the exact same job, not have to take orders, or worry about the UCMJ. They are American "insurgents", a shadow army under contract by the State Dept.
Blackwater et al have some 100,000 "contractors" that are immune from Iraqi law, and don't fall under the UCMJ. They can do literally whatever they want.
Like shooting at random cars:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=6BDByPfIavQ
And sniping who they think the enemy is, with zero liability.. http://youtube.com/watch?v=RXgcQNsUKO0
Gotta be fair about it the clips too x0847Marine --
* The first clip was definitely messed up, and I hope they found and fried that guy. Right at the end of that clip though, I saw two HMMVs coming up on the hiway when they opened fire on the civ car..... then the vid ends. A civ car opening fire 'near' our military convoys would have been just another form of suicide on their part, contractor or no, when we lit them up in return. I'd love to know what happened after, and how the vid came to light.
* The second clip was from 2004 when the Mahdi Army forces rose up and were laying siege to Marine and Army posts where ever they could. Those Blackwater helos delivered ammo and med kits to a besieged outpost against orders to stay clear and Army and Marine helos were not allowed in the area. Blackwater LittleBirds also evaced wounded troops from some besieged sites. The film shows mostly Blackwater employees, but that was a Marine outpost west of Baghdad, from what I gathered in the clip, and military and contractors were fighting side by side during those uprisings.
Although there are problems and risks associated with use of Merc Forces, the fact is they are very successful and effective in general. That lower level of oversight and control is what allows them to be very successful with far less (but usually superior -- think the guy had a H&K416 there for example) resources and fewer numbers. They don't have the micromanaging from D.C. and the Media microscope and traditional military career oriented @zzcoverers to hamstring them.
As to Law of War and UCMJ, American troops don't any benefit from following them in a war like this. al Qaida and the Insurgents don't follow the Geneva Convention. I believe heavy use of Special Ops and PMC's is a requirement for fighting the "Long War", especially with American support falling off to continue the fight.
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Originally posted by x0847Marine
Not related, but check out what a .50cal sniper does to a human head, and torso, and arm.
Very Graphic:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=uzrUPQKbFI0&mode=related&search=
I think you have been visting the the glass pipe again.
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Originally posted by storch
I think you have been visting the the glass pipe again.
Storch is right. I've seen that footage before. It was film of a guy shooting varmits in the Rockys, not insurgents in Iraq. Don't believe everything you see on the internet.
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Originally posted by x0847Marine
Not related, but check out what a .50cal sniper does to a human head, and torso, and arm.
Very Graphic:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=uzrUPQKbFI0&mode=related&search=
They are shooting varmits....small rodents etc...in that video.
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Originally posted by Shifty
Storch is right. I've seen that footage before. It was film of a guy shooting varmits in the Rockys, not insurgents in Iraq. Don't believe everything you see on the internet.
they are clearly shooting small mammals. not that I would see anything inherently wrong with them shooting moslem insurgents in iraq though. they like sharia law? good, let's apply the original God mandated total anihilation as was commanded onto joshua way back in the day.
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Originally posted by Eagler
I think the number of troops in a patrol should be quadrupled.
How many times does something like this have to happen before tactics are reviewed? For our soldiers to be ambushed like that is inexcusable. Overpowering force is the only way to go. Shoot first and ask questions later.
Godspeed to the captured and their families.
I agree with you 110% unfortunately the "powers to be" dont. They are prosecuting soldiers in record numbers for killing "innocent civilians"...
I have heard that some soldiers are going as far as mounting digital cameras to their helmuts to protect themselves....
The term "collateral damage" only now seems to apply to air to ground deaths that were unintended....
You know we must be politically correct when fighting a war now :furious