Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Chairboy on May 15, 2007, 11:16:03 PM
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http://bangordailynews.com/news/t/downeast.aspx?articleid=149858&zoneid=177
When is an unconstitutional roadblock not an unconstitutional roadblock? When Homeland Security pays for it!
But don't worry comrades, everything's fine! Now, your papers please...
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Yikes :O
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That is not a safety inspection, that is a roadblock. Police won't be happy till we return to this:
(http://www.sumavanet.cz/www/data/klatovy/img/gestapo_big.jpg)
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Whose side are you on, son?
Our side, sir.
Don't you love your country?
Yes, sir.
Then how about getting with the program? Why don't you jump on the team and come on in for the big win?
We're at war, I tell you! WAR!
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:mad:
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/612_1179306781_tshirtimagepolicestate.jpg)
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i don't know if i would get all that worked up about the multiagency checkpoint in Calais, Maine. It is right near the border entry point into our country. I think we should all expect to be searched when entering or leaving the country.
i agree that the distinction btw a a legal checkpoint and an unconstitutional one may be a little overworked here, but again, it is near the border. and i'd be willing to bet that what they are doing is within the constitution - maybe not far enough within it to satisfy some of you, but within it nonetheless.
it is nothing new. checkpoints, squeeze lanes and the like go on all over the country and have been going on for quite some time. if you would like to change the laws, don't just grouse about it, write your governmental representatives.
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"Also inside was Bob Whitman, bail commissioner for Washington County. He was writing bail tickets and collecting the money."
cha ching, police=armed tax collectors.
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Ok... here's the deal..
I got no problem with a roadblock checking cars coming in from across the border..
I have a huge problem with the idea that an inspection is different than a roadblock. A roadblock is a roadblock.. an inspection is a roadblock.. an abortion is a murder. There is no gray area.
Roadblocks at the border should be legal. any other roadblock should not be.
This goes for the drunk driver roadblocks they put up all the time too.
I recall back in the 60's that they used to do "safety inspection" roadblocks in kalifornia but for some reason this practice has stopped.
lazs
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i think the issue is right on the edge - and it is regularly challanged because of that. we are garaunteed to be secure against unreasonable searches under the 4th amend. so.... the question centers around wether the search and seizure was reasonable or not, ie, a balance btw needs of the state on the one hand and the protections of the 4th on the other.
the U.S. Supreme Court has upheld the use of police roadblocks for several purposes, including highway safety, protection of national borders, and the sobriety checkpoints.
Brief stops allowing most motorists to proceed in a matter of seconds, that search for only one purpose, and checkpoints that advance a valid state interest, such as safety on the highways - have all been ok'd by the supremes.
but dragnet type searches for any and all violations are unconstitutional.
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it comes down to "probable cause", what probable cause did the police have to stop and check everyones turn signals and head lights?
be honest, it was a fishing expedition. Lets set a roadblock and see what we can catch.
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Yep... "safety inspections?" its a frigging roadblock and should be illegal...
This is a real bad path to go down. sorta like abortion and "good" gun control laws..
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
Ok... here's the deal..
I have a huge problem with the idea that an inspection is different than a roadblock. A roadblock is a roadblock.. an inspection is a roadblock..
I recall back in the 60's that they used to do "safety inspection" roadblocks in kalifornia but for some reason this practice has stopped.
lazs
They still do "safety inspections" here
They also do em for seat belts
Personally I call then "Roadside extortion schemes"
The new literal version if "highway robbery"
Using the Police as mere tools for revenue collection. And C'mon. thats really what its all about. Collecting as much money from citizens as possible for the local and state governments to piss away.
your local policement isnt just a cop anymore. He's a supplimental revenue collector. A Legalised armed gunman ordered (im sure not by choice in most cases) to basically stand on the side of the road stop you.find something minute wrong. and issue you an extortion letter (ticket)demanding your money
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i don't like them either, i'm just informing you that they go on across the country, and they've been challenged and upheld in federal supreme court for the past 25 years. i'm curious as to whether any of them had been found to be unconstitutional, and why.
i know they go on in Broward County FL all the time, esp sobriety checks, on heavy drinking holidays. (they publish in the local rags about a week in advance - so all the heavy hitting juicers can pick alternate routes ;))
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Originally posted by lazs2
Ok... here's the deal..
I got no problem with a roadblock checking cars coming in from across the border..
I have a huge problem with the idea that an inspection is different than a roadblock. A roadblock is a roadblock.. an inspection is a roadblock.. an abortion is a murder. There is no gray area.
Roadblocks at the border should be legal. any other roadblock should not be.
This goes for the drunk driver roadblocks they put up all the time too.
I recall back in the 60's that they used to do "safety inspection" roadblocks in kalifornia but for some reason this practice has stopped.
lazs
I'm going to type this very slowly as I want to be careful not to tear any of my stitches.
I agree with Lazs.
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From what I remember, it's legal if they stop every car. Or if they RANDOMLY stop so many cars. However, any evidence found during a random check can be thrown out if the doubt can be placed that the check wasn't perfectly random.
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
From what I remember, it's legal if they stop every car. Or if they RANDOMLY stop so many cars. However, any evidence found during a random check can be thrown out if the doubt can be placed that the check wasn't perfectly random.
Incorrect, You're confusing racial profiling with the fourth amendment (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution) .
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Originally posted by Chairboy
Incorrect, You're confusing racial profiling with the fourth amendment (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution) .
I believe I'm not. I'm remembering back when the NYPD wanted to randomly search people entering the subway. The Supreme Court ruled that either all need to be searched, or a truly random search needs to be done.
I don't see why it doesn't apply to road blocks.
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Originally posted by Sandman
I agree with Lazs.
Lazs would make a more convincing argument if he didn't insist on always throwing in abortion and gun control in his statement.
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Originally posted by rpm aka (http://www.indiescene.net/archives/chciken-little.jpg)
That is not a safety inspection, that is a roadblock. Police won't be happy till we return to this:
(http://www.sumavanet.cz/www/data/klatovy/img/gestapo_big.jpg)
right....
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Originally posted by lazs2
I recall back in the 60's that they used to do "safety inspection" roadblocks in kalifornia but for some reason this practice has stopped.
lazs
They still do them. Had to go through a "safety inspection and sobriety checkpoint" the other night in L.A. near Korea Town.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by lazs2
This is a real bad path to go down. sorta like abortion and "good" gun control laws..
lazs
gun control is using both hands.
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
They still do them. Had to go through a "safety inspection and sobriety checkpoint" the other night in L.A. near Korea Town.
ack-ack
we have them all the time here
I don't worry as I drive sober, don't have a bag of pot in my car and wear my seatbelt ..
how did you do?
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After all, if you're not doing anything wrong, what have you got to hide, right Eagler?
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Originally posted by Chairboy
After all, if you're not doing anything wrong, what have you got to hide, right Eagler?
as far as traffic stops go - yes
unless you are a paranoid foil hatter like many seem to be these days
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But I am "doing something wrong" I am probly not wearing my seatbelt like a good little socialist. I don't feel it's any of your business if I do or don't. I don't drink and I don't do drugs so probly ok on that one.
mickey... why would what I have to say be more or less correct if I brought abortion and gun control into it? They are both perfect examples of so called "gray" areas that are not gray at all..
abortion is murder.. face it... how much of a murder? who knows.. gun control is a violation of second amendment rights.. what about "shall not be infringed" is a "gray area" to you?
roadblocks and searches are illegal in my opinion. There are a million laws and therefore... a million reasons to have a roadblock... which ones are good enough to give up your rights over? me not wearing a seatbelt? Horror of horrors!!!
lazs
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How many "good Folks" were busted??
:noid
Granted it is a hassle and a pain in the tail feathers.... but where and how else do we protect our borders. Folks down here (Texas) are totally against illegals..... but the Feds do nothing. Why?? Because some group always cries foul.... so do we go through life like a bunch of nancies and let everyone share our freedom and the ability to stay off radar untill striking a blow to the US, or do we do as our forefathers and tell the complainers to toughen up and be a man.
I admit... we do have to lose a little freedom just for our preservation and I understand the concern over "how much". Staying the way we are now only allows those that wish to harm us a free hand to do so.
I see both sides clearly, but something has to be done....
Regards
Shuff
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Originally posted by Shuffler
How many "good Folks" were busted??
:noid
there are no "good folks" all you civilians are law breakers, there just aren't enough cops and time to catch all of you.
but they will get you, protect an serve (the government).
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Originally posted by john9001
there are no "good folks" all you civilians are law breakers, there just aren't enough cops and time to catch all of you.
but they will get you, protect an serve (the government).
LOL guess that is true. Most everyone has gone over the speed limit a time or two and was not caught... or crossed the street, jaywalking.
Same with those that serve, I know many Officers and they are all human too.
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Originally posted by lazs2
mickey... why would what I have to say be more or less correct if I brought abortion and gun control into it? They are both perfect examples of so called "gray" areas that are not gray at all..
They are not gray areas in your opinion.
If you were to say "Exhibit A is true.", I might agree with you.
But if you say "Exhibit A is true, just like exhibit B is true.", even if I agree with you on exhibit A, if I disagree with you on Exhibit B, I am going to disagree with the entire statement.
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(quote)
abortion is murder..
(unquote)
According to Webster's New World Dictionary:
MURDER "1. the unlawful and malicious or premeditated killing of one human being by another ..."
KILL "1. to cause the death of; make die ..."
ABORT "1. a) to end a pregnancy prematurely ... "
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looks hijacked....
early term.... can't survive on it's own.... I'd say no problem
mid term.... starts getting gray ???
late term..... only if a medical emergency requires it!
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Make your own dang thread and beat that dead horse over there instead of here, ya silly knights.
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I guess anything goes in "blue states".
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Originally posted by AKIron
I guess anything goes in "blue states".
Funny, it was a DEMOCRAT that made roadblocks illegal in Texas. We are red now, right? I can't keep up with all the color coding.
Oh, eagler... I am right. Thanks.
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How abortion is relevant to Roadblocks I have no idea.
I think Laz just wants to talk about abortion since he seems to be so pre occupied with it.
Maybe laz was aborted at a roadblock?
:p
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Originally posted by Eagler
we have them all the time here
I don't worry as I drive sober, don't have a bag of pot in my car and wear my seatbelt ..
how did you do?
A lot better than the guy they were hassling for having a broken license plate light.
One a side note, the LAPD checkpoint was illegal as it you forced to go through it and if you tried to make a turn or U-Turn before reaching the checkpoint a motorcycle cop would chase you down.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by Mickey1992
Lazs would make a more convincing argument if he didn't insist on always throwing in abortion and gun control in his statement.
Yea...that`s very unPC. Everyone needs to stay quiet about their silly beliefs. What right have we , as U.S. citizens to question the laws put in place by higher authorities?
..................And Michael Jackson don`t like lace gloves.
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mickey... lets call this "A"
I won't make anyone happy here on this but... I really don't care about abortion one way or the other.. I simply feel it is wimpy to not call it what it is... murder.
If what you are killing is alive (otherwise you don't need to kill it) and... it is human (otherwise what is it?) then... if you set out to and do kill it... you are a murderer.. just as you are a negligent killer if you knock a pregnant woman around and she loses the baby..
Quit being such wimps and take some responsibility for what you do... No gray area here except how much of a life you have taken... killing an early term baby may be about equal to killing someone in a comma say.. not as bad as killing a little girl playing in the front yard. It may even be a mercy but... it is still killing.
lets call this "B" A roadblock is a roadblock... no gray area. You can't use it against citizens protected by the constitution.
lets call this "C" Gun control is bad... it is infringing on the second
Now... you can agree with any or all of the above based on how much you are comfortable with but there is no "gray" area in any of em.
lazs
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and shuffler...
Why do you need a roadblock to find illegals? go down to home depot. The frigging cops will ignore illegals there.. they ignore em everywhere. Here they write em a ticket when they can't show licence or registration and let em go home..
Are you saying that the roadblocks rounded up and deported illegals?
Like I said.. I have no problem with roadblocks at the border.
lazs