Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Neubob on May 17, 2007, 01:58:01 AM
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anzio iron works (http://www.anzioironworks.com/MAG-FED-20MM-RIFLE.htm)
In trying educate myself on large, exotic calibers, I came across this company. Some people will inevitably ask: why? I ask: why not?. A weapon like this seems like a very unique experience. To put it plainly, as you will see from the photos, it makes a .50 cal look like a Super Soaker.
If you want to find out exacly what sorts of energies we're dealing with here, feel free to use this little device (http://www.on-targetrange.com/energy.shtml) that I've found invaluable for comparing ammunition. To put things into perspective, a 2000 grain 20mm round at the velocity quoted by the company will develope around 44,000 ft/lbs. Go ahead and compare that to more common cartridges.
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I WANT THAT GUN!!!
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Wowza!
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ive fired a 40mm but with a slightly different setup :D
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The size of these sniper rifles are getting a little ridiculous. For less weight and size you could get an anti-tank guided missile launcher.
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Originally posted by Viking
The size of these sniper rifles are getting a little ridiculous. For less weight and size you could get an anti-tank guided missile launcher.
But it wouldn't be as much fun!
Wonder how long it is until they are banned for being a threat to armoured limos/aircraft on runways etc.?
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Oh YESSSS!!!
This means I'll nevar have to field dress a deer again.
:D
:aok
Mac
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The ULTIMATE hunting weapon:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=792WRxXXr7U
Take'em one herd at a time!
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Let me tell you if I had 10 grand that would be what I spend it on. Just imagin driving around what that sticking outa you window playing real life aces high.:D
Suppressor available for $3200
LMFAO its so big that even if they cant hear you they'll see you from a mile away.
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I WANNA SEE WHAT THIS BABY CAN DO TO SOME STINKIN' A-RAB!!
Team America, **** YEAH!!
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Any of you see they guy who hunts deer with a Howitzer? Its been awhile but I think its a 12lber with shot shell.
Ah yes 12lber Howitzer....
click here (http://www.buckstix.com/howitzer.htm)
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Anzio Iron Works was at the Knob Creek Machine Gun Shoot last month. I saw the gun, but they were not offering range time.
The 50 BMG rifles are classified as "destructive weapons", but the 20MM takes it up a step further, and once a few of the legislative morons become aware of them, the 20MM will come under close scrutiny, and the attempts to make them illegal will follow.
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Barret... when it first was introduced, and another AT gun on a tripod count?
FWIW - Unless you are reloading your own 20mm rounds and have access to the HEAT "bullet" you're going to find ammo extremely hard to get, and very expensive... even if you're licensed as a Military Collector
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Looks like that Anzio Rifle would be a beast to have to lug around.
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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
Anzio Iron Works was at the Knob Creek Machine Gun Shoot last month.
Yeah, I saw it there as well. It looks pretty impressive up close.
Will you be going to the fall shoot? Maybe run into you if so. When I'm able to go I always camp the weekend.
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Home Defense?
How the hell they gonna get that thing in a double-wide?
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Originally posted by VOR
Yeah, I saw it there as well. It looks pretty impressive up close.
Will you be going to the fall shoot? Maybe run into you if so. When I'm able to go I always camp the weekend.
We hope to. Depends on how it works out between my schedules. I'll have to look and see if we're racing that weekend. The only other thing would be hunting season. Sometimes they do the shoot on the same weekend as one of those stupid short deer seasons.
How'd you like the mud this year? We came in Saturday afternoon and parked down in the hole. Sunk like a rock.
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Yeah it was a bad weather event all around. I parked Thurs afternoon and didn't move until Sunday so it wasn't so bad for me, but there were ALOT of people stuck and miserable.
I did manage to almost fill my shopping list tho and came away with some nifty stuff.
One thing about the Creek: even in bad weather, it's still alot of fun.
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It looks like something from the Battle of Hoth. Imagine carrying that around a battlefield?
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Originally posted by Viking
The ULTIMATE hunting weapon:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=792WRxXXr7U
Take'em one herd at a time!
Indeed. There was nothing left of that tank.
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How would you like to carry that thing around on a patrol through thick brush, with a full load of ammo to boot?
The japanese had a 20mm semi-auto AT rifle during WWII. It took 4 men to carry it with slings, because it weight almost 200 pounds. No thanks.
Is that thing firing HE or API rounds? If it takes the same ammo as an 20mm Vulcan, It probably does. That would make it a LE/Military only weapon. Unless, you could get it as a Military collector, But that might be hard to do.
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I've fired a 155mm naval artillery cannon, that makes this thing look really puny. :rolleyes:
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Using DU rounds that 20mm could punch thru anything.
Useing modern tracking/range finding equipment its possible "some day" to use rifle's "cannons" like these to down aircraft.
I like the future.
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Originally posted by BaDkaRmA158Th
Using DU rounds that 20mm could punch thru anything.
Useing modern tracking/range finding equipment its possible "some day" to use rifle's "cannons" like these to down aircraft.
I like the future.
Why wait for the future when you can already do it yesterday? DHS and FAA nightmare is someone with a Barret on a rooftop, shooting down airliners on final.
Yeah, real sporting event that is, huh?
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I really like guns, but that's nuts. Any caliber that can be HE or incendiary has a hard time passing any test of reasonable use or possession.
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Originally posted by Odee
Why wait for the future when you can already do it yesterday? DHS and FAA nightmare is someone with a Barret on a rooftop, shooting down airliners on final.
Yeah, real sporting event that is, huh?
None of the Barret rifles have large capacity magazines, nor do the copies. Got ANY idea how hard it is to bring down an airliner with 3-5 50BMG rounds? Got ANY idea how many much easier and more reliable methods exist?:rolleyes:
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Geez, some people sound nervous like it's actually legal to own HE ammo for that thing or something. You sound like a bunch of Feinsteins. ;)
It's called a "destructive device".
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Originally posted by Viking
The size of these sniper rifles are getting a little ridiculous. For less weight and size you could get an anti-tank guided missile launcher.
But the ammo load for the Payload guns is whole a lot cheaper than the guided missiles cost per round. Many are also semi auto with 4 to 6 round mags for follow on shots. For many situations, big bore sniper rifles have their uses and are more flexible.
Using a Javelin to take out a mud brick building in Iraq is expensive (been done, many times, and I'm sure some bean counters reamed out some COs for letting it happen too). Tanks not always available or nearby. Shooting a dozen rounds of 25mm will get the job done pretty well at a fraction of the cost of the Javelin.
Barrett XM109 25mm semi auto for example:
http://www.bellum.nu/armoury/BXM109.html (http://www.bellum.nu/armoury/BXM109.html)
(http://www.bellum.nu/armoury/BXM109.jpg)
When you care enough to send the very best.
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Hi Halo,
Originally posted by Halo
I really like guns, but that's nuts. Any caliber that can be HE or incendiary has a hard time passing any test of reasonable use or possession.
Just a brief thought. I'm not sure where this idea that the 2nd Ammendment is about "sporting guns" came from. The use of the word militia indicates incontrovertibly that the right is to keep and own military guns for the common defense against enemies foreign (and in the case of tryannical governments) domestic. The founders intention was that the people would always have access to the kind of weapons that the average soldier in the Continental Army carried, especially as they weren't wild about the idea of a standing army (which tended to be used for the kinds of things they are currently used for in South America and Africa).
In any event, my guess is that the second ammendment as we have known it will probably end up passing away in this century for any number of reasons. It is incompatible with socialism, we are too far into the cycle of trying to trade liberty for safety and we are no longer the kind of "moral or religious people" (to quote John Adams*) that the Constitution was designed for and thus less and less willing or able to govern ourselves. I know that the vast majority of board members won't agree with him, but what he said about the consequences of not exercising self-control are demonstrably true, as founder Robert Winthrop put it: "Men, in a word, must necessarily be controlled either by a power within them or by a power without them; either by the word of God or by the strong arm of man: either by the Bible or by the bayonet." Or if you prefer Franklin: "- nly a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters."[/i]
- SEAGOON
* "We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. . . . Our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." - John Adams
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I guess, Seagoon, what you are saying is, that the constitution is...outdated, for lack of a better word.
I agreed with everything in your post. Demographically, technologically, This is not the U.S. of 230 years ago. Technology and culture in the U.S. have changed dramatically. Also, population has surged to the point where it strains our economy. We have many factors which make it difficult to be the kind of Americans that the founding fathers' were. But, I think that the same things which prompted the 2nd to be included in the constitution are looming even darker in the background. Threat's to U.S. citizens' are as real today as they were in 1776. They just don't take the same form. Anyway, I figure that if the 2nd did'nt get canned during the Civil War, it never will.
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Originally posted by Seagoon
I'm not sure where this idea that the 2nd Amendment is about "sporting guns" came from. The use of the word militia indicates incontrovertibly that the right is to keep and own military guns for the common defense against enemies foreign (and in the case of tyrannical governments) domestic. The founders intention was that the people would always have access to the kind of weapons that the average soldier in the Continental Army carried, especially as they weren't wild about the idea of a standing army...)
You also have to consider the term "militia" in the 1770's. It pretty much could include every able adult male, if that was what was required. "Militia" are what normally protected settlements on the frontier from Indian uprisings and raids. "Well regulated militia" makes some people think there was a well organized force, like todays National Guard, but it was no where that organized, disciplined, well trained, or well equipped.
Think of the Swiss model if used here: every able adult to serve their time in the military, or equivalent, and thereafter always be part of the Reserves, with a rifle and magazine of (accounted for) ammo in the house. The Swiss can mobilize a 1 to 1.5 million strong fighting force in hours. America cannot in any way, shape, or form match that without going nuclear.
In America you will always have the Government which wants to take the guns, because people are easier to 'protect' and control when they are not armed. You will have the percentage of the population that actually believes that "violence never solves anything" and wants the guns to magically disappear (after all; outlawing drugs worked so well), and big daddy to protect them. You've got those that won't give up their guns without a fight, or will keep them, even if they are outlawed.
The Guns issue in the States has come down to two polar opposite extremist camps. Neither side will compromise, and neither side can risk giving an inch of ground in the political or public relation battle. That's why there can be no reasonable gun laws in the states in the future. That's why you never see a concession from either camp in acknowledgment of any violent act that a gun is part of the issue.
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(quote)
Just a brief thought. I'm not sure where this idea that the 2nd Ammendment is about "sporting guns" came from. The use of the word militia indicates incontrovertibly that the right is to keep and own military guns for the common defense against enemies foreign (and in the case of tryannical governments) domestic. The founders intention was that the people would always have access to the kind of weapons that the average soldier in the Continental Army carried, especially as they weren't wild about the idea of a standing army (which tended to be used for the kinds of things they are currently used for in South America and Africa).
(unquote)
Good point, Seagoon. My impression is that the 2nd Amendment has always been primarily about individual weapons, not weapons large enough to be crew served, or their more destructive modern counterparts that pack even more punch in individual weapons, like 40mm grenade launchers, rocket launchers, and .50 caliber weapons, including sniper rifles.
For example, most people seem to accept the ban against automatic weapons and explosive weapons like hand grenades. The big sniper rifles probably are the current dividing line between acceptable and unacceptable. Even for hunting the largest game, it seems calibers under .50 are sufficient (except for shotgun slugs and other shorter range special purpose heavier bullets like African big game calibers).
People who still want to possess particularly lethal weapons apparently can get BATF permits or perhaps some other special dispensation for their special circumstances.
As for nightmare Hitler or Stalin scenarios, dispersing heavy weapons among Guard and Reserve units presumably helps deter any inclinations toward a federal dictatorship.
As with any regulations, there probably will always be debate about particular weapons that are right on the borderline between generally acceptable and generally unacceptable. For me, that line at present is between .50 caliber and larger, particularly sniper rifles.
If we think gun control is a tough issue now, wait until a .50 caliber sniper rifle is used in a crime.
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That's a good point too, Halo. What's been explained to me in different discussions, is that the .50 cal's and other weapons are feared because of their range. A .50 cal could accurately take out a VIP target at up to a mile or more. That is outside of the protective cordon that people like the Secret Service or police could cover to protect someone like the President, Sec. of state, congressman, governors, celebrity's, etc. Plus, By simply being farther away, the assasin would have more lead time on potential pursuers. Add to that, a large cal. weapon like that 20mm. firing an HE round would guarantee a one shot kill, and likely one or more "collateral" deaths. It is, after all, what those things were made for.
As for sporting purposes, African bull elephants' used to be taken with something like a .458 Win. Mag, or .416 rigby, .505 Gibbs, etc. None of those cartridges are quite as powerful as even a .50 BMG round. However, I would say that a .50 BMG would'nt be out of place on an African dangerous game hunt.
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ok
A: just to clarify i hate hunting
B: i like guns(owns an uzi)
getting an m16 soon lol
but ya with that gun aim within 5-10 feet of the guy and hell be blown to bits.
i wonder what the recoils like on that monster.
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A clip I saw someplace apparently has some soldiers firing the .50 BMG sniper rifle from the shoulder! Apparently the semi auto recoil management is extremely effective. :eek:
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You have to realize that most 50 BMG sniper rifles are heavy, as much as 20 pounds or more. The recoil is usually on the same level as heavy 20 gauge shotgun loads in a mid weight shotgun. The bolt action version I looked at building would weigh around 21 pounds. It'll be a while before I tackle that project.
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If they take away our guns what will we do when the canadians invade with tier hockeysticks?
But really if the country ever melts down and anarchy ensues Id rather have my guns then a stick or a 2x4 with a rusty nail.
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Well regulated at that time didn't mean well organized. It meant "Well Practiced." See, the founders realized how powerful the rifleman is when he can hit his target.
It's the same in switzerland. They all have rifles and are VERY well practiced, with national days where they come together to shoot.
And the fun thing about the constitution, is that it's never outdated.
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Originally posted by tedrbr
But the ammo load for the Payload guns is whole a lot cheaper than the guided missiles cost per round. Many are also semi auto with 4 to 6 round mags for follow on shots. For many situations, big bore sniper rifles have their uses and are more flexible.
Using a Javelin to take out a mud brick building in Iraq is expensive (been done, many times, and I'm sure some bean counters reamed out some COs for letting it happen too). Tanks not always available or nearby. Shooting a dozen rounds of 25mm will get the job done pretty well at a fraction of the cost of the Javelin.
But that's what you use mortars and recoilless rifles for. For shorter ranges rifle grenades and grenade launchers are much more practical, and ammunition costs approximately the same. That monster gun is simply too heavy and cumbersome to be of any practical use.
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Originally posted by Viking
But that's what you use mortars and recoilless rifles for. For shorter ranges rifle grenades and grenade launchers are much more practical, and ammunition costs approximately the same. That monster gun is simply too heavy and cumbersome to be of any practical use.
true but think of the car alarms you'll set off in the parking at the range every time you fire a fifteen dollar projectile at the berm.
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Well, there is that...
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Here's the vid of the guy shooting the big gun, with a suppressor. The sound may be misleading, but look at the reaction of the people behind the shooter. There is none. Hear protection or not, the sound of an unmuffled 20mm going off would probably disturb bystanders, at least enough to turn their heads. The recoil is definitely present, however.
20mm at the range (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9NxHj1R04g)
The muzzle velocity quoted was around 3600 fps. If that's accurate, this is no low-velocity payload rifle.
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Originally posted by Viking
But that's what you use mortars and recoilless rifles for. For shorter ranges rifle grenades and grenade launchers are much more practical, and ammunition costs approximately the same. That monster gun is simply too heavy and cumbersome to be of any practical use.
That monster gun may weight more than a recoilless rifle or mortar, but less that a recoilless rifle or a mortar AND a decent ammo load would weight altogether as compared to the payload rifle and ammo. It's shorter in length than a .50 cal Barrett sniper rifle. A large sniper or "payload" rifle is a lot faster to deploy than a mortar position, easier to move with on the bounce, and very simple to use.
I don't know who still actively fields rifle grenades these days. I think France still has them in modern inventories, among some other nations. Payload rifles have a flatter trajectory and more range (and more penetration) than a M203 or MM-1 revolver grenade launcher. A Vehicle mounted Mk-19 (or Mk-47) grenade launcher (or M2 .50 cal with API rounds for that matter) has more fire power than these payload rifles, but there are times when operations are conducted by infantry on foot, not mounted or supported by vehicles or good air support.
It's one more tool in the toolbox. As payload rifle use grows, you'll find more specialized rounds incorporated into their use. You see a lot of MOUT-based weapons coming out now to support troops fighting in urban environments, as that is the growing trend. The MPIM/SRAW, Mk-153 SMAW, XM307 ACSW, and M-32 MGL "six pack" are all good examples. The two calibers most commonly seen seem to be the 25mm in high velocity, flat trajectory platforms, and 40mm in low and high velocity rounds with typically less flat trajectories.
There's a lot of evolution and revolution trends in military weapons happening right now at all levels to deal with the changing face of warfare. A lot of new weapons, specifically specialized weapons, will result as well as expanded inventories. It will be up to the warfighters on the ground to determine what will work for them for a particular environment. Not every tool is appropriate for every job.
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Rose O'dennels body guards have a couple I'm sure...