Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: toonces3 on May 17, 2007, 06:28:05 PM
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Hey all,
I haven't been playing AH for that long, maybe 3 weeks now. I met up with my current squad pretty shortly after joining, and started flying the P-51 and P-47 with them almost exclusively.
I figure that I'm ok in the P-51, by no means great, but I am starting to appreciate what it does well, and what it doesn't do well. Still, I find that if I get sloppy in the MA, I get killed pretty routinely.
In the Jug, all I do is up other folks' scores.
At any rate, the other night I got jumped shortly after takeoff in a jug, and of course got killed like a baby seal. In frustration, I booted up a spit 14 or 16 (the non-perk one) and promptly shot my tormenter down. I then proceeded to the enemy base nearby where I shot down 2 P-38's, an FW-190, and then another spit on the return flight.
The last few nights I've been taking up the spit when I start getting frustrated in the Pony or Jug, and I get and land alot more kills than in either of the others.
So, it got me thinking. I know that both the P-51 and Jug are great planes, and my squad mates routinely land multiple kills in them. But me, it just seems like it is a lot...easier...to land kills in the spit. The best I can come up with is that in the typical MA furball that all my fights eventually degenerate to, the spit performs much better than the other rides. What I mean is that I can fly a B'n Z style in the spit, then eventually blow all my alt, and energy, and then start turning on a dime at tree top level and stay alive alot longer than in the other rides.
It's leading me to think that either:
a) the Pony and Jug are poor MA performers in that, by nature of the MA, you're putting them into situations for which they are poorly suited, or
b) I can be lazy with my dogfighting in the spit because it simply outperforms most other planes in that it can fly zoomie, and can also turn like crazy.
I guess my ultimate point is that I think I turn to the spit when I start feeling like I want to be lazy with my ACM skills, and want to have a larger margin of error.
I don't know...what do you guys think?
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It's not lazy. Krusty might agree with you though.
;)
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spit's are the most dweebest aircraft in the game be sides the La7,every one fly's them for ez kills.It gets up to speed fast and turns great,they should perk it.it keeps up with a with almost anything.And it out dives a P51 or a P47.Now i know all the spit dweebs are going to call me a crybaby but i could care less.
American fighters are great fighters,and their great to get kills in people just dont know how to fly them.if you need help,let me know,im good in the 51 and geting better in the 47.
VansCrew
352nd FG"blue nosed bastards"
Recruiting.
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i don't know about keeping up with anything, i routinely get out ran when i take one up. Same the other way, i get in trouble you can out run if you have to to put some distance between you. the best way i have found to not get killed by one is stay above and don't turn with them if my ride at the moment would be at a disadvantage.
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Lay off the spit....
Your gunnery is probably not that great and 50's take some time to master. The better plane for you is a nikki, la7, chog our any other cannon ride..
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Originally posted by FX1
Lay off the spit....
Your gunnery is probably not that great and 50's take some time to master. The better plane for you is a nikki, la7, chog our any other cannon ride..
my gunnery is good in american fighters but all the spit has to do is just turn and it's out of your gun sight.
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1st
All planes are deadly when well handled. The spit XVI simply provides a much wider range of options. So what happens is two fold, 1st the spit driver has both a greater "tolerance" for mistakes and a wider window of "opportunity"....so you can fly a sloppier fight and still win. 2nd the spitty has a rare combination of climb, turn and acceleration (although not top speed). This creates situations where the other guy simply cant capitalize since the spit is either going to outclimb, turn or accelerate him.
The end result is simple....you can make more mistakes and take advantage of more of the other guys mistakes in a spitty (especially the VIII).
As for the Jug and pony...pony is much easier to fly well....but both are deadly when well flown.
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the yak is uber !
zoom enough and the spit will never touch you...and get wingmen if possible 8)
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As mentioned above your gunnery needs work. OK you may well be shooting buildings in "fighter" mode but your hit % is a little over 1%. The average is around 8% and good shots over 11%. Typical learner 1% and as mentioned above cannons are more what you need right now.
50's calls are great I like me f6f, f4u's and p47's but you need to learn leading the shot and maintaining hits. Look at it this way for example.... a 1/2 second burst of cannon is like 1 second worth of 50's. .
As for abilities of planes you would have to master 1 before experiencing the pluses and minuses. Each planes has it's own abilities which used correctly can take advantage of the enemies weaknesses. Think about it. There's a lot to master here before judging planes abilities with only a tour or 2 under your belt.
Oh, BTW I fly the Spits and the P47's a lot and nothing can dive with a P47. The spit will shake and pitch up when the 47 is still diving. The spit will snap in half if it tries to stand on. You just gotta learn them.
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Originally posted by LYNX
As mentioned above your gunnery needs work. OK you may well be shooting buildings in "fighter" mode but your hit % is a little over 1%. The average is around 8% and good shots over 11%. Typical learner 1% and as mentioned above cannons are more what you need right now.
If you do a larger-scale evaluation, the average hit% is between 3 and 4 %. In fighter mode, 8% is quite well actually, unless one only shoots at buffs.
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Originally posted by Lusche
If you do a larger-scale evaluation, the average hit% is between 3 and 4 %. In fighter mode, 8% is quite well actually, unless one only shoots at buffs.
Well pointed out. I should have said the average PLAYERS hit %.
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something else I've been whining about is my gunnery.
It sucks, as you've noticed.
I've given myself the nickname 'Mr. Assist' because I am the master of pinging planes, but rarely can I keep the pipper on there long enough to get the kill.
I can't tell you how many times a night I get a guy totally slotted, but can't close the deal because I simply can't land enough hits. The cannon in the spit is definately nice because I don't have to land alot of hits to get a kill.
At any rate, I'm not in any way putting down the Jug or Pony. And I'm definately not the expert in any of the planes with a whopping 3-4 weeks behind me. I do think, however, that the spit is just easier to fly. Every time I get in it, I always think, "wow, I can actually move around in this thing!"
I haven't even tried the La-7 yet. I'm afraid I'll love it so much that I give up on all of the more challenging planes altogether!
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Originally posted by toonces3
something else I've been whining about is my gunnery.
It sucks, as you've noticed.
I've given myself the nickname 'Mr. Assist' because I am the master of pinging planes, but rarely can I keep the pipper on there long enough to get the kill.
I can't tell you how many times a night I get a guy totally slotted, but can't close the deal because I simply can't land enough hits. The cannon in the spit is definately nice because I don't have to land alot of hits to get a kill.
At any rate, I'm not in any way putting down the Jug or Pony. And I'm definately not the expert in any of the planes with a whopping 3-4 weeks behind me. I do think, however, that the spit is just easier to fly. Every time I get in it, I always think, "wow, I can actually move around in this thing!"
I haven't even tried the La-7 yet. I'm afraid I'll love it so much that I give up on all of the more challenging planes altogether!
i could help you on your leads,ill be on all weekend,it's easy if you know who to do it.
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Just a thought...
Your hit% may also suffer from shooting at too large distances, outside your convergence range. Sometimes it's better not to take a shot, unless you try to force him into evasive movements. I have my convergence at 350 and rarely shoot outside that range when in .50cal planes. I know quite a lot of the "better" sticks have their convergence range even closer, some down to 200.
Im much more nervous when I have a con on my 6 at D600 that doesn't shoot but just tries to get closer... usually a sign of a good stick...
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Sounds like convergence and perhaps some stick scaling would be your best bets.
Yeah, the Spits are good airplanes, and well suited to the average MA low alt fight, but you wouldn't call people lazy for flying Jugs or the other high alt monsters up high, instead of spits and La-7s. Some planes excel at something or other across the spectrum of alts, ranges, and uses. The chaotic MA furballs tend to lend themselves to turny planes with cannons, so flying those types of planes in those types of fight simply makes sense.
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i fly spits alot these days and i don't think it is a lazy plane. i usually fly in the
mk 8 or the 9 as opposed to the 16 which i am not particularly fond of. (the range on the 16 is particularly awful)
i spent the first two years of my time flying the 190's, all of them, so i've been used to an entirely different type of flying all together.
i think that the 190's are just as easy...if not easier in some cases. don't know why...i can run usually an a8 longer than i should be able to in a fight and have found that the dora's roll rate and speed is about as dweeby as it gets in many ways.
its also fair to note that the spit pays for its good turning and maneuverability in a significantly short supply of good ammo. since flying them i have had to learn to lay off the trigger until i know that i really have a shot. it isnt nearly as fast as people have given it credit for. the 16 is...but i get run down in the 8 and the 9 all the time by lots of planes in lots of situations.
that said, it is a pure joy to fly...as is the p-51...the other solid dweebomatic on the roster if you ask me.
fly the spit with stall limiter off...its a bit harder to control and you can find yourself in a flat spin before you know it...but you cant get the most out of her.
i ramble...
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Originally posted by toonces3
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I haven't even tried the La-7 yet. I'm afraid I'll love it so much that I give up on all of the more challenging planes altogether!
ok heres what you do.
forget all that crap
fly what you want to fly
enjoy it when they whine about your ride because they just got shot down by you. no one whines when they get a kill. thats the game. piss off or get pissed off though most would use more mild terms.
fly the spit because its a great plane. but watch your ammo its got a small clip not like those heavy US planes. try the La7 but take full gas its light wieght and powerful but has a small gas tank.
besides...
liking the spitfire and La7 only makes you a little bit gay not a flamer :D
after all you will be phabulously flaming others with your phancy phlying machines!
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Originally posted by VansCrew1
spit's are the most dweebest aircraft in the game be sides the La7,every one fly's them for ez kills.It gets up to speed fast and turns great,they should perk it.it keeps up with a with almost anything.
VansCrew
352nd FG"blue nosed bastards"
Recruiting.
yea it gets up to speed fast (all 325mph OTD of it ) LOL. yea right perk a 325 mph plane LOL.
it wont keep up with any thing for long, only reason it does in short fights is its superb accel.
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P51 is my wife
but i have affiars with my p47 on the side...:noid
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(Actually, the average gunnery percentage of really average guys are more around 5~6% hit rate. 8~10% not may be as terrific as some of the best pilots, but it's still way higher than the average of the really average ppl.)
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A hit% of 4.25 currently places you at rank ~1500 - out of 5533 ranked players in figher mode this tour so far.
If you manage you get 9%, you have rank ~300, thats almost in the top 5 percent of all players...
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a few tours ago i think i had my % at 9 but my squadies far better then me some have hit %'s in 12-13 range :cool:
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The AoA (Angle of Attack) {a.k.a G-Force} is not even close to being accurately modeled in this game.
The Spit 16 in Aces High can pull maneuvers that are physically not possible in the real world.
Granted I know this is a video game, but since a lot of realistic elements already exist in the game, I think it's fair to compare the in-game Spit16 "handling realism model" to other planes such as the P-51 and the P-47.
So what I'm really saying here, is that the reason you're finding the Spit16 so much easier to fly is because of flawed flight and physics game mechanics that favor this plane over all others.
As someone else said, the plane needs to be perked given it's current condition vs other aircraft.
And yes, if you fly it, you are forever branded a noob and dweeb. :D
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Y'know, given the widespread accusations of the Spixteen breaking the laws of physics I'd be interested in seeing HTC's take on it.
As a point of order on the Spit VIII, I seem to find those one of the easier Spits to deal with, along with the Seafire and Spit I.
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I'm pretty sure the P-51's are fairly easy to fly and a whole lot of fun.
But,
wadoeyeno?
Ren
The Damned
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I'd be interested to hear what actual Spitfire pilots have to say, as opposed to a bunch of dorks sitting around arguing on the internet about the flight characteristics of planes they've never even touched.
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A real spit pilot in 1942 wouldn't have called a spit a "lazy" ride when FW's terrorizing them.
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stang always has to ruin our fun that bastige;)
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never can figure why someone wouldn't take a weapon into combat that gives you the edge...... Being the Spitfire can do so many things well,
why wouldn't you take it into a dogfight?
It would be like calling a 190A8 or 190D9 lazy for hunting bombers
On the side note..... Fly what ever the *ell you want to. If your having fun so be it .....who cares what the guy you just shot down thinks
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
I'd be interested to hear what actual Spitfire pilots have to say, as opposed to a bunch of dorks sitting around arguing on the internet about the flight characteristics of planes they've never even touched.
How do you know the people that talk about the Spit16 in this thread have never flown the plane?
Don't assume.
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:noid
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Maybe its because a spit IS a dog fighter?
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
I'd be interested to hear what actual Spitfire pilots have to say, as opposed to a bunch of dorks sitting around arguing on the internet about the flight characteristics of planes they've never even touched.
:rofl :rofl :rofl
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....
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theres no reason they should perk the spixteen. all it is, is a good airplane that is more capable than others.
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Originally posted by halcyon
How do you know the people that talk about the Spit16 in this thread have never flown the plane?
Don't assume.
You have not flown a real Spitfire.
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
I'd be interested to hear what actual Spitfire pilots have to say, as opposed to a bunch of dorks sitting around arguing on the internet about the flight characteristics of planes they've never even touched.
I've told the story too many times. but one more to help the cause.
At Flying Legends Airshow in 2005 I was talking with Spit Historian Peter Arnold, and Spit airshow pilot Clive Denney. Mr. Denney flies the Historic Aircraft Company Spitfire Vb and has flown IXs and XVIs as well.
He said that the Spit is almost unfair in that it is so easy to fly. He said it probably would have made sense to start pilots in Spitfires and then move them on to Tiger Moth's and T-6s.
The point being, the Spit is a forgiving airplane which was why it was such a good fighter. It made pilot's better, and gave them confidence sooner.
Kinda like the Spit in AH.
All the real Spit drivers who I've talked to loved it, and that includes the Griffon XII and XIV. Given the choice it was the Spit they'd have chosen to go to war in, and they were glad they had that chance.
They didn't envy the Tiffie drivers down low or the Hurricane drivers earlier in the war. The Spit was it for them.
So fly it if you like it. Who cares what anyone else says.
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
You have not flown a real Spitfire.
perk the righteous indignation!!!
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
You have not flown a real Spitfire.
Does this count? :)
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/Spitdweeb.jpg)
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
I'd be interested to hear what actual Spitfire pilots have to say, as opposed to a bunch of dorks sitting around arguing on the internet about the flight characteristics of planes they've never even touched.
they'ed probably say we'd change our mind if it was the real thing, life or death. I like the spit not my favorite by far but would probable be my first pick.
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Originally posted by Saxman
Y'know, given the widespread accusations of the Spixteen breaking the laws of physics I'd be interested in seeing HTC's take on it.
As a point of order on the Spit VIII, I seem to find those one of the easier Spits to deal with, along with the Seafire and Spit I.
I find them worse than Spit16s.
They're deceptively quick and have a nasty habit of sneaking up on me.
The main factor in their threat is the fact that the average skill level piloting the Spit16 is generally signicantly lower than those who fly the SpitVIII
Provided they don't sneak up you, most of the aircraft I fly can escape them, but certainly not turn with them.
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Originally posted by Xasthur
The main factor in their threat is the fact that the average skill level piloting the Spit16 is generally signicantly lower than those who fly the SpitVIII
Maybe I'm missing something but apart from the Spit 16s better roll rate I can't see much differance in performance between it and the Spit 8
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Just as an FYI I pull out the past three month stats again and the kill/death ratio of the Spit XVI across the arenas is 1.10, 33rd on the list of all planes and vehicles. This trails the Spit IX by one position and .01 K/D. Among Spits only the Spit XIV is higher than these at 25th and 1.19 K/D.
My gut tells me that this is because so many noobs fly the XVI so we check and in terms of kills plus deaths they are:
Spit XIV: 8,609 (75th)
Spit IX: 88,581 (17th trailing the VIII by one position)
Spit XVI: 191,447 (3rd)
So it would appear that a vast majority of differently skilled pilots fly the XVI vs. the IX and XIV. Oddly the Seafire is 10th on the K+D list at 106,616 but 50th on the K/D list at 0.85 (evidently there are a lot of masochists among us).
In comparison the highest non-perk plane is the Hurri MkIIC at 1.65 K/D (8th) and 94,695 K+D while the lowest fighter is the P40B at .23 K/D (80th) and 7,829 K+D.
This would suggest that the Spit XVI is only slightly above average in the arenas but again, the propensity for a vast number of differently skilled pilots to fly it likely holds it down.
Just thought I'd throw this out as food for thought.
Note: All stats exclude Chutes and Ship Gunners
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Hmmm, interesting.
Checked the 38s.
G and J are better then 1 to 1. 38L is well below that.
Guess lots of folks figure the later birds are easier/better....or the pilots who know them better choose the earlier birds for the challenge and do more with them.
Surprised the Spit VIII was less then 1 to 1
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Originally posted by halcyon
The AoA (Angle of Attack) {a.k.a G-Force} is not even close to being accurately modeled in this game.
The Spit 16 in Aces High can pull maneuvers that are physically not possible in the real world.
Granted I know this is a video game, but since a lot of realistic elements already exist in the game, I think it's fair to compare the in-game Spit16 "handling realism model" to other planes such as the P-51 and the P-47.
So what I'm really saying here, is that the reason you're finding the Spit16 so much easier to fly is because of flawed flight and physics game mechanics that favor this plane over all others.
I won't argue that the Spitfire flight model's got problems. But I do wonder at your statement, "The angle of attack is not even close to being accurately modelled in this game." A real World War Two-era fighter should be able to pull approximately a twenty degree angle of attack. Moreover, it should be more or less the same for all fighters (within a few degrees). I've not measured it in Aces High II, but at least for the ships I fly, it seems to be fairly okay. I'll do some testing and measuring.
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Originally posted by toonces3
Hey all,
I haven't been playing AH for that long, maybe 3 weeks now. I met up with my current squad pretty shortly after joining, and started flying the P-51 and P-47 with them almost exclusively.
I figure that I'm ok in the P-51, by no means great, but I am starting to appreciate what it does well, and what it doesn't do well. Still, I find that if I get sloppy in the MA, I get killed pretty routinely.
In the Jug, all I do is up other folks' scores.
At any rate, the other night I got jumped shortly after takeoff in a jug, and of course got killed like a baby seal. In frustration, I booted up a spit 14 or 16 (the non-perk one) and promptly shot my tormenter down. I then proceeded to the enemy base nearby where I shot down 2 P-38's, an FW-190, and then another spit on the return flight.
The last few nights I've been taking up the spit when I start getting frustrated in the Pony or Jug, and I get and land alot more kills than in either of the others.
So, it got me thinking. I know that both the P-51 and Jug are great planes, and my squad mates routinely land multiple kills in them. But me, it just seems like it is a lot...easier...to land kills in the spit. The best I can come up with is that in the typical MA furball that all my fights eventually degenerate to, the spit performs much better than the other rides. What I mean is that I can fly a B'n Z style in the spit, then eventually blow all my alt, and energy, and then start turning on a dime at tree top level and stay alive alot longer than in the other rides.
It's leading me to think that either:
a) the Pony and Jug are poor MA performers in that, by nature of the MA, you're putting them into situations for which they are poorly suited, or
b) I can be lazy with my dogfighting in the spit because it simply outperforms most other planes in that it can fly zoomie, and can also turn like crazy.
I guess my ultimate point is that I think I turn to the spit when I start feeling like I want to be lazy with my ACM skills, and want to have a larger margin of error.
I don't know...what do you guys think?
I don't think yer being "lazy", you seem do well in the Spit because "BnZ" is not your style. "Laziness" or "cockiness" in a furball is when someone who see's you, turns right in front of you, and prompty gets shot down.
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Hers a bit of free advice....its worth what ya are about to pay for it,....nuthing,....but war planes are a bit like motocross bikes (new),..they all are extreamly good at what they do,..some do this better, another does that better, theres always a trade off, either in handling or performance, when you find the ride that does the things that fit your style, you've found your ride...nevermind what the critics says. fly what works for you./:cool:
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I bought into flying planes that aren't dweeb rides (like I thought it mattered)...I tried to fly with honor and respect(because I thought I should), but what I have realized is that I pay 14.95 a month to have fun and I don't need a bunch of rules telling me what's fun. I love spit's, they were amazing planes in the REAL world and they are fun to fly in AH. I have decided to fly whatever I want whenever I want and just play because it's fun.
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Originally posted by halcyon
How do you know the people that talk about the Spit16 in this thread have never flown the plane?
Don't assume.
Is that you Voss?
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Originally posted by Citabria
liking the spitfire and La7 only makes you a little bit gay not a flamer :D
phancy phlying machines!
:rofl :lol :rofl :aok
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Originally posted by halcyon
The AoA (Angle of Attack) {a.k.a G-Force} is not even close to being accurately modeled in this game.
The Spit 16 in Aces High can pull maneuvers that are physically not possible in the real world.
Granted I know this is a video game, but since a lot of realistic elements already exist in the game, I think it's fair to compare the in-game Spit16 "handling realism model" to other planes such as the P-51 and the P-47.
So what I'm really saying here, is that the reason you're finding the Spit16 so much easier to fly is because of flawed flight and physics game mechanics that favor this plane over all others.
As someone else said, the plane needs to be perked given it's current condition vs other aircraft.
And yes, if you fly it, you are forever branded a noob and dweeb. :D
So please present all your research and data that would prove your point and at the same time prove that Pyro's research and data is "not even close".
I mean, if it is that far off ... then there must be some glaring piece of evidence/data that Pyro completely missed.
I'm sure that he would love to see your data so that he can fix the "Spits" ASAP.
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Originally posted by halcyon
How do you know the people that talk about the Spit16 in this thread have never flown the plane?
Don't assume.
RUT-ROH ... Voss is in 'da house.
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Originally posted by BaldEagl
Oddly the Seafire is 10th on the K+D list at 106,616 but 50th on the K/D list at 0.85 (evidently there are a lot of masochists among us).
I'd rather think that's not the reason. It's because most people conceive the Seafire as the "easiest" carrier based plane - needs less attention & skill than the blue birds and can survive a few hits more by nearby field ack than the Zero. Away from CV battles Seafires are still pretty rare.
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Originally posted by toonces3
I can be lazy with my dogfighting in the spit because it simply outperforms most other planes in that it can fly zoomie, and can also turn like crazy.
I agree with this. Except for the Spit I and Spit V, which are not markedly superior in their appropriate time periods.
- oldman
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
I'd be interested to hear what actual Spitfire pilots have to say, as opposed to a bunch of dorks sitting around arguing on the internet about the flight characteristics of planes they've never even touched.
Post of the year right here.
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there is nothing wrong with the spitfire flight model or physics. it isnt as great as these losers that never fly it and only fly against it think it is.
spitfires are sitting ducks plain and simple. they are to slow to catch any E fighter unless diving from high above and they have about as much ammo as a 109F. thats pretty sorry if you think about it. its got one good burst of speed and thats when it dives from alt itude but you can't dive up and once it dives that E is gone or at the very least greatly diminished.
how are you guys even having any trouble at all with spitfires?
im 43 to 0 vs the spit16 and
im 35 to 2 vs the spit8
easy targets plain and simple.
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the spitfire is not what it once was way back when. in the hands of a skilled player it is still a tough opponent though.
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And it out dives a P51 or a P47
Vanscrew, tell me, what spit out dives a pony because I've yet to run into one?
I am equally suspicious about your claim that any spit could outdive an N.
Steve
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lazy
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i have no prob with spits i acutally like the spit 1 but the only thing is ive seen the spit16 preform moves that defey gravity in all senses going from a stall to a climb to catch a 400 ph p51...
thats my only slight concern;)
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Originally posted by storch
the spitfire is not what it once was way back when. in the hands of a skilled player it is still a tough opponent though.
Well ... they neutered the Spit V (reduced boost and 1/2 the cannon load) ... but you are correct ... a skilled Spit pilot is bone fide killer and not to be taken lightly.
I love all the people that say it's an easy plane ... these are all the ones that fall into the Spit spider's web due to ignorance and then piss and moan when they get bit.
Those that call it a "dweeb" plane are only deflecting their own shortcomings and getting spanked by a better fighter, in the type of fight that they chose to get into ... turning.
Anyone who is a decent and aggressive E fighter, with some alt and/or E on the Spit, should be able to easily dispatch the Spit.
If you choose to E fight a Spit and dilly-dally around, and the Spit pilot is good, he will equalize your E and then send you to the tower.
The moniker of "dweeb" should not be attached to the plane, but rather to the pilot.
I see far more "dweeb"ier P-51s, 109s, and 190s than I do Spits ... at least when I run into a Spit ... I know the "fight" is on ... P-51s, 109s, and 190s, in most cases, the fight is on with them ... when your engaged ... with Spits.
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Yes, if you fly a Spitfire you are clearly lazy.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Well, I guess somebody saw my post and recognized me because I got handily spanked last night in my Spit 14.
And, of course, I totally blew all my ammo on a brilliant Yak pilot.
One of the problems in flying the P-51 and then upping a Spit is not realizing just how quick that ammo is totally expended.
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Originally posted by toonces3
Well, I guess somebody saw my post and recognized me because I got handily spanked last night in my Spit 14.
And, of course, I totally blew all my ammo on a brilliant Yak pilot.
One of the problems in flying the P-51 and then upping a Spit is not realizing just how quick that ammo is totally expended.
For someone who has only been playing less than a Month, I'd suggest the Spit 16. Learn ACM, how to lead your shooting solutions, and evasives. It is a very tolerant plane. As your skills increase, move to your P-51's, or P-47's.
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Originally posted by SteveBailey
Vanscrew, tell me, what spit out dives a pony because I've yet to run into one?
I am equally suspicious about your claim that any spit could outdive an N.
Steve
There isn't one. Fact is there isn't a plane in the game that can out dive a P47 when flown correctly. Thing is most don't do it right. they don't trim the plane to 0Gs and fight the stick through the dive creating all kinds of drag.
Like all things in this game. "Fear the pilot not the plane!"
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Originally posted by Clifra Jones
There isn't one. Fact is there isn't a plane in the game that can out dive a P47 when flown correctly. Thing is most don't do it right. they don't trim the plane to 0Gs and fight the stick through the dive creating all kinds of drag.
Like all things in this game. "Fear the pilot not the plane!"
The Corsair would be the closest thing to it, but yeah, when trimmed right, the Jug dives best.
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First of all, spits are the most simple planes to shoot down.
The problem with spits is they turn to good "WUH!?" thats right, often times there turn rates will put them back into there targets cone of fire.
You can take just about any plane, hit your page up key,and pull back on the stick like your goin' outa style.
The head position will allow you to see better past your nose,will allow you to get that snap shot,and..you will still be able to see you prey twisting and runing.
I cannot STAND the guessing work when trying to get a deflection shot, so simply "stand" up and get a better view.
Most times spits and hurr's will pull right back into my gun cone and i just hammer down.
Simple.
Also there roll rates suck, if you can pull back on your stick apply a bit of rudder and a little bit of roll,you can useualy keep yourself moving in a direction even the spit will find hard to handle.
Anyhow, like most people think the plane is a tool, but the pilot any good pilot, can take a rock and fly it in the air with some form of success.
Also remember fuel weight drop tanks and ordiance effect how your plane will fly. If you heavy* you will have a much harder time.
The key is taking enough fuel to get in,drop your drop tanks's fight for 5-10 mins and get home.
If you plan on staying in a combat situation,remember the longer you do..the more fuel used and the better your plane will preform, of course that is if you can keep yourself alive and in a good situation.
All to many times people loose there 51's and 47 .ect because they are forcing combat on a plane using x2 the fuel/weight/drag everyone else is holding.
People diving there 262's with 100% fule, only to have the wings snap off, pulling 3 g's doin' 500 mph. dont get it.
light light light.
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Originally posted by VansCrew1
spit's are the most dweebest aircraft in the game be sides the La7,every one fly's them for ez kills.It gets up to speed fast and turns great,they should perk it.it keeps up with a with almost anything.And it out dives a P51 or a P47.Now i know all the spit dweebs are going to call me a crybaby but i could care less.
American fighters are great fighters,and their great to get kills in people just dont know how to fly them.if you need help,let me know,im good in the 51 and geting better in the 47.
VansCrew
352nd FG"blue nosed bastards"
Recruiting.
perking the spitfire would be silly vanny, don't talk piffle :)
The spitfire is just a bloody good piece of british engineering and because it whips up most U.S. planes; people moan and groan. although if one were to be perked it should be the 16 NOT the 14.
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(http://www.mirandala.org/images/toonces.jpg)
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Originally posted by halcyon
How do you know the people that talk about the Spit16 in this thread have never flown the plane?
Don't assume.
LOL, Straiga is back.
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I don't think any plane really qualifies as "lazy". The spit is a decent plane, and requires significant skill to master, as does any other. The spit is a plane that will allow you to make a bunch of mistakes in, and still give you a smidgen of a chance to come out ok. As you get better and make fewer mistakes you'll stand an even better chance. It's a good "learner". And if you like it, it makes a dandy plane for an experienced stick too. Most people coming into AH have a notion of what a dogfight entails. Generally that means TnB. If they try that in a pony or P47 they die quick. If they try that in a spit they MAY live a bit longer.
That said, it's not the best plane in the game. It can be easily beat by anyone who knows how, and employs the right strategy for the situation. As can any other plane. Eventually it all comes down to the pilot.
Regardless of the plane you fly, it's gonna take at least a year in it to even approach "mastering" it.
Personally, against my F4U the spit is pretty helpless. They are too slow to get away, and too slow to keep me from dictating the fight. They hold E so well that it makes it easy to get them fast and then all I need to do is dump some E to get behind them. If I miss my shot I just need to extend out 2-3K to get my speed back and try again. No need to rush, the spit can't get away.
The most dangerous spit is the one with the LA-7 wingman.
I can't believe some people think spits should be perked.
MtnMan
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(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v620/KinGKillaTFD/gayspit.jpg)
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Originally posted by Platano
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v620/KinGKillaTFD/gayspit.jpg)
:rofl
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(http://www.augustradio.com/platano.jpg)
fixed
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wrong those are not plantains those are cavendish bananas
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Originally posted by storch
wrong those are not plantains those are cavendish bananas
buzz!... those are platanos. cabendish come with a pink backrground with kittens on them.
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I love spits.......When I'm in a zeke. I love TnB and a spit will always come and knife fight with me.
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Originally posted by storch
wrong those are not plantains those are cavendish bananas
Its not thier fault THey dont know the difference....
It mustve Not seen the thread about my name... :D
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Originally posted by Platano
Its not thier fault THey dont know the difference....
It mustve Not seen the thread about my name... :D
lol...
how could i NOT have seen an attention whoring thread like that one?
:rolleyes:
:rofl
those are platanos.
:cool:
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:lol
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Originally posted by JB88
buzz!... those are platanos. cabendish come with a pink backrground with kittens on them.
nope. I know bananas I have eaten more bananas than the whole monkey farm that is the democratic party has. I have eaten the same amount of plantains. stick to arguing about other topics those are güineos or cavendish bananas to melanin challenged ones, never to be confused with the true platano.
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there was no confusion sir. those are platanos.
sorry.
:)
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Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
Yes, if you fly a Spitfire you are clearly lazy.
-- Todd/Leviathn
Clearly
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spitfires in this game have always shed thier wings with little to no provocation from even a light .303 bombardment. To fly one and survive can take more effort than alot of faster, harder planes.
the only real lazy people i see is those who cant be bothered to learn how easy your average spitfire is to kill in almost any plane.
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I thought cavendish was a rather pleasant pipe tobacco?
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or this guy perhaps? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Cavendish)
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it's also the most widely consumed banana, the one 88 posted a photo of earlier.
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Originally posted by storch
it's also the most widely consumed banana, the one 88 posted a photo of earlier.
platanos are not the most widely consumed banana. at least not here.
geez.
:mad:
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Originally posted by Benny Moore
I won't argue that the Spitfire flight model's got problems. But I do wonder at your statement, "The angle of attack is not even close to being accurately modelled in this game." A real World War Two-era fighter should be able to pull approximately a twenty degree angle of attack. Moreover, it should be more or less the same for all fighters (within a few degrees). I've not measured it in Aces High II, but at least for the ships I fly, it seems to be fairly okay. I'll do some testing and measuring.
It may be unnecessary to ask, but if you do a comprehensive evaluation please post it. I know I would appreciate a spreadsheet (or whatever) of the results and testing method.
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Originally posted by storch
wrong those are not plantains those are cavendish bananas
Why are you dragging plaNtano into this thread?
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Originally posted by Edbert
Why are you dragging plaNtano into this thread?
because I knew eventually that who rear it's head in a tumoltuous joy.
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Originally posted by Edbert
Why are you dragging plaNtano into this thread?
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v620/KinGKillaTFD/image5461.jpg)
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Well, a month later, and I have to say that I still love the Spit 16.
A certain player has been saying that I have said, or implied, that all one has to do is yank on the stick to fly the Spit, and I pulled my old thread up to see if I did indeed say that.
Perhaps calling a spit 'lazy' was stupid. It's not a lazy plane at all. In fact, having flown a few more planes now, I find that it can indeed be beat quite easily by a player that flies against its strengths.
I'm slowly breaking into the other aircraft in the game, trying to suss out their strengths and weaknesses. But still, when I'm all alone, my squad has gone their separate ways, and it's me agains the MA world, I love to take up the Spit 16. It is a joy to fly. It does so much well. I land kills in it. At some point in this game I'm going to learn how to shoot, and then I'm going to start cleaning house.
Great posts guys.
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Originally posted by toonces3
I haven't even tried the La-7 yet. I'm afraid I'll love it so much that I give up on all of the more challenging planes altogether!
You will love it, but you wont give up on the more challenging planes. In fact, mastering (not HO and run) the La7 will give you a good primer on the more challenging planes. The La7 turns pretty well, lots of folks seem to either not realize that, or forget about it.
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Just throwing in my pennies
:noid
When I fly the spit, I fire my MGs first in a turn fight, and when I KNOW for sure I can hit him, I fire a burst or two of my cannons.
:t
I still like MGs though, I like the FM2 and F6F.
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A certain player has been saying that I have said, or implied, that all one has to do is yank on the stick to fly the Spit, and I pulled my old thread up to see if I did indeed say that.
I've said that bunchas times, but I never...(ok...RARELY) insult or goad people. If ya can find a plane to get kills, in go for it. If ya are in a 'tuff' plane and NOT getting kills, the game isn't any damn fun, and ya start to wonder why the $15?
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damm we lost another one
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ya know......this is gonna sound messed up to you all.......but when i fly any of the spits, all i do is run outa ammo really fast....and i DO fire in short bursts......got that habit from the hurri2. but with all of the talk of it being easy to kill in, i just can't seem to kill in it....and in a hurri2, i can generally get inside his turn about 1/2 the time. i've run down buffs with them, only to run outta ammo before even killing one of em, where as i use my 38L or hurri2, and no probs. then i get into a turnfight, and other spit drivers seem to be able to easily out turn me.....hell...i even get out turned by 38's when i'm in spit.
anyway, thats just my two cents worth:D
:aok
<>
john
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Originally posted by Stang
A real spit pilot in 1942 wouldn't have called a spit a "lazy" ride when FW's terrorizing them.
if i'm not mistaken, real spit pilots were sent into combat with only 16 hours or so of training?
hell, i had 40 hours before i was allowed to solo a cessna:O
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There are quite a few planes that can out turn a 16 & even more that can out run it. It has a very good climb & decent acceleration.
The 16 isn't great at too many things but it is good at almost everything. ymmv
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My plane of choice, so far, is FW-190 (8 or 9). The 9 is faster, but the 8 is devastating if you get in my way. I like F6F or C-205 and a lot of others, but I survive best and in the "8". Each plane has its unique chracteristics. Finding what works for YOU and the way you do things is what it is about, well, my perspective, so far, in my relatively nooby experience.
People name calling is ridiculous. Checkout the skies who is flying what and almost everybody is in a high performance aircraft. I now can afford the exclusive perk planes, but I don't. In my "8" I get about 5 perk points per kill because it has a higher ENY value and my opponents are usually very low ENY. In TA I have been playing with the perk F4U's, miserable little beasts.
Learning to correctly fly your choice is key, operating it within its ideal envelope. FW I don't get suckered into down low or turn fights (well, I still do, but I try not to). It is ideal up high, but almost everybody is below 5,000 feet. 5,000 feet is my hard deck and I go back upstairs. I usually am out on the fringe looking for 1 on 1, and finding it. It is more about what NOT to do.
Oh, yeah, I forgot... Points don't matter.
.
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The way I see it is turnfighting in multi con engagements takes more work than Bore N zooming in fast planes.
Lazy = LA7.
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Originally posted by toonces3
[B What I mean is that I can fly a B'n Z style in the spit, then eventually blow all my alt, and energy, and then start turning on a dime at tree top level and stay alive alot longer than in the other rides.
[/B]
I think this is the key.
When flying the P-51 or a Jug you have to have the disipline to keep your energy up. They are both good airplanes and I've seen some good pilots turn them on a dime. But for the most part they are not turn fighters.
You have to match your style of flying to the airplane you are in. You seem to end up turn-fighting so the spit works well for you. But if you want to use the Pony or Jug, keep your speed up.
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Originally posted by toonces3
A certain player has been saying that I have said, or implied, that all one has to do is yank on the stick to fly the Spit, and I pulled my old thread up to see if I did indeed say that.
Names, we want names!!!! Who said that :confused: lol
PS. did you find it?
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Originally posted by dedalos
Names, we want names!!!! Who said that :confused: lol
PS. did you find it?
LOL you two are destined to become great BBS antagonist, like Krusty, and Bohdi, in General Discussion, or Ripsnort and RPM in the O Club, or Storch and everybody everywhere.:D
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Antagonizing Shifty antagonizes antagonists.
:eek: :rolleyes: :D
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Stop it you're bugging me!:D
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Originally posted by Shifty
LOL you two are destined to become great BBS antagonist, like Krusty, and Bohdi, in General Discussion, or Ripsnort and RPM in the O Club, or Storch and everybody everywhere.:D
The problem, Shifty, is that Dedalos is a player whose skill I really admire. He's run enough circles around me in enough planes...it's how I want to learn to fly.
But I'm not naming names LOL.
I tried the La-7 and I didn't care for it at all.
I love the FW190D9, and I was all proud of myself for not flying a dweeb plane, and then I found out that the D9 is a dweeb plane too. Damn. But, in my opinion, alot, or most fights end up eventually on the deck turning, and the Spit does so well down there. The only downside that I've found to the Spit 16 is that it isn't that fast. It's not bad, but if you go down and piss of a P51 or La7 or Typhoon, or whatever, you're not going to be able to run home to mama, you're gonna have to fight your way back out.
I also have trouble running out of ammo, but I RTB as soon as the cannons are gone. I can't shoot buffs down in a Spit for crap. If I'm buff hunting, the 190G14 with gondolas is the bombdiggity.
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I took the advice of a guy earlier this month and went buff hunting in the yak 9T. Big fun, give it a try!
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there are no lazy planes, just lazy pilots.
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Originally posted by VansCrew1
it keeps up with a with almost anything.And it out dives a P51 or a P47..
Most Spitfire will shed their wings if they try to dive with a P-47 or P-51.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by toonces3
something else I've been whining about is my gunnery.
It sucks, as you've noticed.
I've given myself the nickname 'Mr. Assist' because I am the master of pinging planes, but rarely can I keep the pipper on there long enough to get the kill.
I can't tell you how many times a night I get a guy totally slotted, but can't close the deal because I simply can't land enough hits. The cannon in the spit is definately nice because I don't have to land alot of hits to get a kill.
At any rate, I'm not in any way putting down the Jug or Pony. And I'm definately not the expert in any of the planes with a whopping 3-4 weeks behind me. I do think, however, that the spit is just easier to fly. Every time I get in it, I always think, "wow, I can actually move around in this thing!"
I haven't even tried the La-7 yet. I'm afraid I'll love it so much that I give up on all of the more challenging planes altogether!
Sounds like you're leading with tracers rather than with the gunsight. Turn off your tracers and force yourself to learn how to lead with the gunsight. In about a week, you'll see your hit% improve.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by toonces3
The problem, Shifty, is that Dedalos is a player whose skill I really admire.
Why is that a problem? :p
I love the FW190D9, and I was all proud of myself for not flying a dweeb plane, and then I found out that the D9 is a dweeb plane too.
[/B]
There are no dweeb rides. You can fly it like a dweeb if you chose to but it is not the planes fault. (I did not mean you personally. I guess I should have said, one can fly it like a dweeb)
Damn. But, in my opinion, alot, or most fights end up eventually on the deck turning, and the Spit does so well down there. [/B]
Yes and no. You have to think 3D. You pull the stick vs a Spit you will lose; but that would be the pilots fault. Think up. Ki84 and 109s should be an even mach for the spits. Just don't fly them like a spit. With the exception of the 16, the Ki84 and most 109s should just have fun with a low spit. Especially the Ki.
Get them slow, then use the vertical. If you have any kind of speed advantage, there is nothing the spit can do other than hope you mess up.
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
Sounds like convergence and perhaps some stick scaling would be your best bets.
Yeah, the Spits are good airplanes, and well suited to the average MA low alt fight, but you wouldn't call people lazy for flying Jugs or the other high alt monsters up high, instead of spits and La-7s. Some planes excel at something or other across the spectrum of alts, ranges, and uses. The chaotic MA furballs tend to lend themselves to turny planes with cannons, so flying those types of planes in those types of fight simply makes sense.
Well said, hubs. The cognitive dissonance is making me see double though.
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Originally posted by halcyon
The AoA (Angle of Attack) {a.k.a G-Force} is not even close to being accurately modeled in this game.
The Spit 16 in Aces High can pull maneuvers that are physically not possible in the real world.
By all means, please show documented evidence to support your claims on how the AoA, G-forces and the Spitifire XVI are incorrectly modeled.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by halcyon
How do you know the people that talk about the Spit16 in this thread have never flown the plane?
Don't assume.
Because we know you haven't, unless your VOSS but you'd have flown the P-51D and not the Spitfire XVI.
But I would like to know, ever been bitten by a red scorpion?
ack-ack
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Hey toonces,
Learn first, then try to chalenge yourself. I did not realize you had only been playing for a few weeks. If you try to chalenge yourself now you will just get frustrated. Learn in an easyer plane like the Spit9, NIKI, or the LA7 and then try to chalenge yourself. Just remember they are not unbeatable. They can only help you get out of troble so you could maximize your fighting time. Niki will give you ammo, the spit turning when low and slow, and the lala e for efighting. Don't use them for hoing and running cause you will not learn. You will land kills though
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Because we know you haven't, unless your VOSS but you'd have flown the P-51D and not the Spitfire XVI.
But I would like to know, ever been bitten by a red scorpion?
ack-ack
I would like to respectfully submit the "VOSS LAW" as a corollary of Godwin's Law.
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scotty you are hearby banned from posting for no less than 6 hour, this ban being called for by the use of too many clever words in the same thread.
batfink
Enforcement Officer of the Vocab Police
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"By all means, please show documented evidence to support your claims on how the AoA, G-forces and the Spitfire XVI are incorrectly modeled."
Exactly, we keep asking for a FILM to support these whines, but nobody ever bellies up to the bar with any evidence. Just more empty talk.
Of course HTC just has it all wrong, its a conspiracy, they didnt make a mistake and just plain got shot down? No.
Pffft.
Is it over used? sure, so is the N1K2 and the LA-7, and the Hurricane II, and the F4U-1C, but that has nothing to do with the modelling being correct, or not.
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Originally posted by Squire
"By all means, please show documented evidence to support your claims on how the AoA, G-forces and the Spitfire XVI are incorrectly modeled."
Exactly, we keep asking for a FILM to support these whines, but nobody ever bellies up to the bar with any evidence. Just more empty talk.
Yep, still waiting for Serenity's film showing how inaccurate the Spitfire XVI is. Guess I'm going to be in for a long, long wait.
ack-ack