Aces High Bulletin Board
Special Events Forums => Scenario General => Topic started by: Krusty on May 17, 2007, 10:43:52 PM
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2 points
1) I know the scenario hasn't begun yet, but this can take a long time. Don't see why we can't start now
2) I don't want to clutter the Battle of Britain thread with Op Husky patch discussion (it's cleaner this way).
I had an idea for a patch. Still kind of rough right now. I wanted opposing forces, as if fighting for Italy itself. One early idea I had included rocky mountainous terrain under the axis side (as if defending Italy from seaborne invasion). The fight would be against a light blue sky backdrop (where we focus in this game). In my head I had put in one of the stronger symbols Italy used, the Fasces, right along the center as a split down the left and right. The allies and the axis would be represented by a P40, B24, 109, and C205 silhouette. I drew this all out on paper with pencil while at work.
When I got home I started up Photoshop and have this so far. I incorporated my early idea by having Italy itself represented by the mountainous terrain underneath the sky (in the center).
It uses only 7 colors. No merrowed edge. It has a thin black border but is similar to Stalin's Fourth at the edge (which has a thin border at the edge but no merrowing).
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/858_1179459734_huskypatch1g.jpg)
I wanted to present a second idea as well, having the Fasces higher, and the sky behind it on the left be a US roundel (star on blue) and the left being a LW cross (black and white) but this screwed up things with the planes on the background, made it far too dark, and blended the axe blade on the fasces into the star on the US roundel, so I totally scrapped that idea.
I wanted to come up with an idea that incorporated some idea of defending Italy. Let me know what you think.
EDIT: I plan to remove the radio masts from the 2 planes and the tail wheel from the 109. Need to simplify it, or it won't show up well in patch form. NO markings on the planes themselves. They are far too small and it'll just be blobs of thread if they try to replicate it.
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Shweeeeeet! Leave the masts, take the wheels. :aok
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Good start :aok
Howabout replacing the mountain with map of Sicily? It may be difficult to make the mountain shape self-evident... as recognizable mountain.
In my experience, the plane silhouettes should also be larger.
One idea might also be to choose between a mountain/map and the fasces. Having those both may be one theme too many. Usually the simpler the better.
Keep it up :aok
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Originally posted by BlauK
One idea might also be to choose between a mountain/map and the fasces. Having those both may be one theme too many. Usually the simpler the better.
Good point! And you've just sparked an idea. Unfortunately, I can't play with it until I get home.
I just thought about 2 major changes when reading your post:
1) take the planes out, replace them with the nose of a P-40 (from the canopy to the nose) on one side, but much larger, and just the nose of the C205 on the other side, but much larger. The tails would be cut off by the border of the patch.
2) Remove the mountains behind the Fasces and play arond with something else. I haven't decided what, but I'll think of something. I really wanted to keep the land in there, but if it doesn't help the patch I have to learn to cut it out!
Random thoughts:
One idea I had after posting my initial idea was to take the Fasces and make it smaller. Remove the planes. Put the entire shape of Italy in the center with a blue water background. Italy is at a 30-degree angle almost, so I'd put the smaller Fasces and a LW cross on the water northeast of Italy, and a US star and RAF roundel southwest of italy over the water. I think it's a different approach, but a weaker idea.
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In the idea 1) you could maybe have some water at bottom and then some land and mountains far in the horizon below the planes as a fairly thin horizontal section.
... an additional thougth.. some landing crafts in the water.
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Well, here's what I have after a session of working on it.
I work sort of like a brain storm. Try one thing, see where that leads, try another... The file itself has undergone 20+ changes (and I have iterations of them saved for backup purposes).
These are the current mutations. I like the idea of breaking the internal border and using the outer edge.
The original version, Version "G"
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/858_1179459734_huskypatch1g.jpg)
Version "L"
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/858_1179600357_huskypatch1l.jpg)
Version "M"
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/858_1179600365_huskypatch1m.jpg)
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Well I heard from Gaiden on vox that he liked "M" best. I think that's my current favorite as well. Doesn't seem many others care to discuss this yet. Perhaps I should table it and come back at a later time?
Thanks for the help Odee and BlauK.
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Krusty,
I think there are still a bit too many elements which are a bit too small.
Maybe, e.g., USAAF star, Italian AF 3x black fasces in a circle and just Sicily without Italy mainland.. and larger plane sihouettes could do the trick.
btw. Fasces could be at top left and star at bottom right, to present more real loactions of the forces.
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That could work, too.
I didn't think the average person could identify Sicily without Italy next to it, though.
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I've got some idea for a new version. Won't be able to work on it until this weekend, though.
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(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/301_1179981972_huskypatch1msized.jpg)
Here it is resized down to were the other patches are .(yes, i held a BoB patch over it ) so it fits on my pc ... tee hee
they avg 3 inches so get out your tape measure thats what they need to be compressed down to . Hope this helps
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I figured it would be downsized, which is why I've been keeping the plane silhouettes "larger". I figure it's better to work large and just look at the proportions, and resize it later.
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It's changed quite a bit now.
If you like anything from any of the previous ones, would like to see "this part" on "that patch" or whatever, I'm very open to suggestion!
Here's what I had, 2 variations of the same, then I thought "hrm.. well if folks think that's a little crowded, how about an alternate of both?" so I pulled off the insignia on either side.
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/858_1180066501_huskypatch1o.jpg)(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/858_1180066539_huskypatch1p.jpg)
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/858_1180066514_huskypatch1o-2.jpg)(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/858_1180066552_huskypatch1p-2.jpg)
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I have been wondering the fasces symbol you have proposed, but then I found this link (http://www.fotw.net/flags/it%5Eair.html#1922) :)
I would rather use the 1940-1943 symbol. At least to me it is more common and more well known.
...and make the emblems (US and Italian) the same size ;) ;)
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I thought that this symbol would be more recognizable, when I first sketched it out on paper. The symbol changed, but I think some fighters still had the Fasces near the cockpit.
I could just drop it and put in a LW cross instead?
P.S. The US roundel and the fasces are the same size. I put one over the other to compare, to make sure they were the same. I think the white border around the Italian one makes it look smaller.
As another thought, I could just remove the plane shapes and make malta take up the entire center area (on top of the same blue field) and have the text "Operation" and "Husky" (or "June" and "2007") stay exactly where it is.
IMO that seems a little bland, but it could work.
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Krusty, what about this. It's simple, generates interest, and at the same time, let's folks know somethings going to go down in Sicily.
Use version M of the patch, and remove everything (aircraft, roundel, and Fasces) keep the date, June 2007, "Operation Husky" and Italy and Sicily with the crosshairs. Of course keep An Aces High Scenario.
Seems all the other stuff, although it looked really nice, was makin' the patch IMHO, look a little busy. Too much info?? I don't know, just a thought.:aok
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I like "M" and the first of the new four.
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Nutzoid: Can't do that without significantly increasing the size of Sicily and the crosshair over it. It's 75% blank area without it. I think perhaps it is "too busy" but if you remove it all you've got "not enough". That's also why I made Sicily larger in the most recent ones.
Odee: Having those versions listed, what would be the best/ideal components for a patch, in your opinion?
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OK, time to pick back up the patch ideas and get going on patches for Operation Husky.
Also, the patch fund was used to produce the previous two patch runs (Battle of Britain 2006 and Operation Downfall) and will need to get back up to about $250 to do the next patch run (Operation Husky).
Information on how to contribute to the patch fund, pictures of previous patches, and information on how to get patches is here:
http://www.electraforge.com/brooke/flightsims/patches/patches.html
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I like best the version that is in the upper left. I, too, would go with the 1940-1943 Italian symbol from BlauK's link; and I'd use a different shade of blue for the ocean. Perhaps this shade (a swatch of color from the AH Mediterranian):
(http://www.electraforge.com/brooke/misc/aces_high/waterColor.jpg)
Also, maybe this color for Sicily (ground color swatch from AH):
(http://www.electraforge.com/brooke/misc/aces_high/groundColor.jpg)
Then again, the blue might need to be lighter to have the black stand out, and the blue and brown might need to be adjusted so that Sicily stands out.
Also, whatever the shades, there won't be thread to match perfectly, so that will modify things somewhat.
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Picking up work, revision "Q", versions 1, 2, and 3
1
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/858_1183088531_huskypatch1q.jpg)
2
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/858_1183088543_huskypatch1q-2.jpg)
3
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/858_1183088574_huskypatch1q-3.jpg)
EDIT: 4 (same as 3 but with black outline around malta, malta more centered]
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/858_1183088928_huskypatch1q-4.jpg)
Brooke: Originally that was sky, not water. It's been through so many changes though that it now looks like it should be water. Regardless, I've tried the new color, but the problem is it's so dark. I think it made the black hard to see. So I tried 1) dark color with black filled-in with different color, 2) turning the opacity down on the new dark blue level so that the old light blue showed through a bit, and 3) just picking an entirely new color altogether.
EDIT: P.S. Do you think Malta needs a thin black border? Looking at other patches this is do-able.
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Well I flew for the Germans not the Eyeties. I think you need to include German symbol on the patch as well. :aok
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Only so much room! You notice there's no RAF roundel, either?
I'm not trying to stick to 100% accuracy, more of a "feel" for what the event symbolized, which was the US (star roundel) invading Sicily (IT roundel).
I could just remove both insignia, but I think it might make it feel "empty"...
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P.S. Nobody says this has to be the final choice. I just had an idea early so I started on it.
Unfortunately when I have these visions in my head, I usually lack the skill to bring them to life as I saw them. As such it's changed very much from the original concept. If anybody else has their own visions, then please share them with us!
This isn't official! This isn't final! Don't just think "Aw, somebody else is doing one" because there is no limit on how many can be done.
I wanted to type this in case my work on a patch design was stifling somebody else with better skills/inspiration.
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Distinguished SIRS
I'm new to the senarios, and have completed my first one 'OPERATION HUSKY' -- I only have one question --- how do I donate and how do I get one ?
OBTW --- THE PATCHES ARE A GREAT IDEA
THANK YOU IN ADVANCE
loboxx
484th BG(H)
827th sqd: aok
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Thanks for starting on patch design.
IMHO need Italy with sicily on the patch....most people when seeing the patch might think Sicily is a mustard stain without being at the toe of Italy.
Also four participants insigias could frame the patch it doesn't have to be round does it? Could even use LVTs on the patch.
Hey! Just thinking outside the Box. Opportunity for a unique patch here!
Hajo
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Originally posted by loboxx
Distinguished SIRS
I'm new to the senarios, and have completed my first one 'OPERATION HUSKY' -- I only have one question --- how do I donate and how do I get one ?
OBTW --- THE PATCHES ARE A GREAT IDEA
THANK YOU IN ADVANCE
loboxx
484th BG(H)
827th sqd: aok
In my sig there is a link:
http://www.electraforge.com/brooke/flightsims/patches/patches.html
At the top of that page it tells you how you can donate, if you wish. Hope this helps!
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I wwas only able to walkon for Frame 2 in a Ju88 but I'd like a couple of patches from this scenario.
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Hajo: No, it does not have to be round. Look at the Stalin's Fourth patch. The problem is if you get complex with your borders, you're "cutting into" rather than "adding onto" the patch. The patch is only 3 inches wide, I believe, so we have to leave enough room for stitching and text.
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Krusty understood.
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I like edit 4 the best.
What are other folks thinking? You guys like it? Are we done with design?
So far, the patch fund has $139 in it thanks to many generous people so far. We need to get it up to about $250 for a patch run for Husky. Once the patch design is done, I'll use it as the basis for an e-mail to people about the patch and the patch fund.
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Originally posted by Krusty
P.S. Nobody says this has to be the final choice. I just had an idea early so I started on it.
Unfortunately when I have these visions in my head, I usually lack the skill to bring them to life as I saw them. As such it's changed very much from the original concept. If anybody else has their own visions, then please share them with us!
This isn't official! This isn't final! Don't just think "Aw, somebody else is doing one" because there is no limit on how many can be done.
I wanted to type this in case my work on a patch design was stifling somebody else with better skills/inspiration.
I by no means wish to take over or replace any previous designs. I'll just throw in a few modification ideas based on Krusty's designs.
I also like no4 best from those four, but IMHO, the elements in it seem quite equal and thus they compete with each other. Here are some quick ideas to put some elements into main role and others to background... (also the IT sign is edited to equal size with the AM one ;) )
(http://koti.welho.com/skukkone/kuvia/husky_patchmod_a.jpg)
(http://koti.welho.com/skukkone/kuvia/husky_patchmod_b.jpg)
(http://koti.welho.com/skukkone/kuvia/husky_patchmod_c.jpg)
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I really like the Idea of the C patch Blauk posted. Brooke can you PM me your number again, I have lost it and need to give you a call.
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I also like "C." That's a nice take on the original idea (planes coming in on the island, water in the background).
I can send you a .PSD file with my layers if you want better control over everything. Let me know if you want it.
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Krusty, I can try to kind of modify and finalize the details of your ideas, if you want me to.
However, those ones above were simply an attempt to help you forwards.
I am ok with either way.. your decision ;)
If I am to finalize it, I will want your opinion and acceptance of the details before publishing it here ... so you cannot slip out of the responsibility of the design ;)
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I like "C" as well :cool:
TY for putting it together!
SALUTE!
Newman
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Sorry about the lack of an update. I've been busy at work. Will try to get another one done this weekend (perhaps finalize it?)
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I like C , but i think the planes need to be bigger to give them more distinction when it gets shrunk down to the 2-2 1/4 inch size.
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Whatever design is decided upon is fine with me. The creativity you gents have is remarkable.
Of course when the patches are out I would like one please.
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I'm liking the "C" modification also. I agree with rosco that something needs to be done with the planes.
With the island in perspective, perhaps instead of just the profiles we could have the two planes almost crossing each other in an overhead perspective view, (nose down, front quarter view) filling the sky above the roundels.
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Is C the final choice?
We are at $152.82 in the patch fund. Once we get to about $250, I'll start the patch-run process.
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IS THE OP HUSKY PATCH DONE YET? ----just curious
loboxx
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I haven't had any free time to work on it. I like that last C option.
I don't know if it would help any, but it might be nice to have lines in the water like a globe has (longitude and lattitude) to better show how the sea is round.
Then again, that might not look so good.
As-is, I like C, but think the "2007" is too small to show up properly. Easy enough to fix.
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YEP C GOT MY VOTE
Time to shoot the designers and give the project to the makers, unless we add a couple of bombers which were there too and TBM'S, maybe an aircraft carrier ETC. and on and on.
I do agree with you on the date-- should be larger.
Just fun'n, I can see a lot of work has already gone into the patch and I (newbee), appreciate the hours and talent you have spent in the designing of the patch. Operation Husky was my first senario,and admitedly am hooked.
loboxx
standing by
:aok
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We are currently at $166.93 in the patch fund.
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What if you drop the planes and put RAF and LW roundel and cross there?
Because even in C option i doubt that the planes will be recognizable if they are sewn in the patch, if they are printed it could work.
Maybe they could be laid out something like this:
US ITA
RAF GER
Sicily
Aces High bla bla....
-C+
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OK, now that my CM duties for Der Grosse Schlag are over (or nearly over -- there is still scoring), I can get back on patches.
C is the winner. However, could I get one thing: have the plane outlines a bit larger and sharper? That will make it easier for the graphics folks to know what the outline is supposed to be, and bigger will show up better on the patch.
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Has anyone heard from Krusty lately?
Will he make the final, or should I
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All I need is for the airplanes to be a bit larger and with sharper outline (no bluriness to confuse the graphic artist at the patch company).
I'll PM Krusty to see if he can respond here. Either way, if one of you guys makes the final, I can get it into production, which I'd like to do asap now that DGS is done.
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Krusty posted in our squad forums he would be away for some time. We have not heard from him since.
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In that case, BlauK, could you do the mods?
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Krusty has all the original pics and sources. I have only edited his bitmaps to paly with the layouts, therefore I cannot just easily get better plane profiles. I would have to search for some pics to do that... or redraw/trace them.
I can do it, but if anyone can contact Krusty, it would be the easiest way.
If not, I'll redraw them. I would likely do that in CorelDraw. Could you ask if they can use some vector file directly (*.cdr *.ai *.eps *.wmf ...etc) or do they only take bitmaps?
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I sent Krusty a PM but haven't heard anything back.
Hmm. Let me try this. Let me send them the graphic as is and see how it looks after they render it.
Let's that that approach first. If it looks bad, we can go to plan B (which is do more work).
So, no work needed yet. I'll come back after I get the rendering.
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cc
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Just curious if you've received word from the patch makers or not? It's been a month, but it's a holiday filled time of travel and paid time off, so who knows how that'll impact their process.
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We're past the graphical mockup stage, and I'm in the process of iterating sewouts. Everything looked good on the last one, but the plane outlines needed a little tweaking. Assuming the next round shows those as good, I'll give them the go ahead to do the run.
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Thanks for the heads-up!
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I'm still working on this.
The airplanes are looking crappy in the sewouts, and I'm trying to work with the patch company to figure out how to deal with that.
The problem is that the outlines are small enough that small irregularities in the stitching are causing the P-40 to look funny.
There will be a Husky patch. I am on it. But this one is taking longer than any other patch to do. I will keep after it.
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Brooke, let me know if the outlines are still crappy. I'll make 'em larger and crisper, hopefully they can get it to sew better
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Here is the leading candidate of the Operation Husky patch I'm trying to get produced. It's taken a very long time, as the patch company was having a lot of trouble with the plane outlines -- I had to go back and forth a lot on different versions.
Anyway, if they are able to make the following, this is the one I'll go with:
(http://www.electraforge.com/brooke/misc/aces_high/husky1.jpg)
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:aok
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That's pretty snazzy!
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Good job with the planes :aok They are recognizable, even though just barely so :)
I wonder if they can maintain that quality in the production. Often the sample may be of better quality. Still it looks much better than I expected.
WTG Brooke!
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Thanks, guys. I don't have the production yet -- I still need them to find that best design (which was made a while back) from among all the other mods and to make that best design again so that I know they have the right one. Once that is shown, then I'll trigger production.
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I'm surprised you didn't run into a similar problem with Op Downfall! Although, those are a little bigger.
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The Operation Downfall patch had to go through a couple of iterations, but not as many. A top-down outline is more tolerant of little changes not affecting the perception of what plane type it is. A side-on profile is much more touchy -- the visual cues people go by (cockpit canopy shape, tail shape, scoops under the fuselage, etc.) are smaller details.
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Brook, Any problems Call me I can help, I feel obligated and maybe it will help me feel better about the past. I do have the leading cutting edge Sewing programs(Including x3), and can do any Graphic conversion to Any commercial embroidery machine (And there are many) What seams to be misunderstood here are a few things, And before people hop on my case I do have 22 years Experience in this Feild.
Any Patch you design, there are a few factors.
1: look at it to scale
2: SEND IT TO SCALE!!!!!
3: you CANNOT skrink thread! when you scale down your design, your lines get thinner... The sewing thread does not!
4:Thread has a direction... if you sew a 3inch feild of blue, the thread needs to fill that feild in a direction, lets say it sews it North to south(up and down for ya'll living in the south) and you try to sew an outline of an airplane in that feild..keep with me here.. any thread sewn in the outline over the feild of blue sewn East and west (side to side for you southerners)
Will look great, any thread sewn north to south over the feild MAY or MAYNOT fall between the blue threads, since they run the same direction.
5: Keep it simple. Design is one thing, Detail is another.
Sofar I've seen some awsome patches designed on this site.
I can be reached
Email GraphixOne@verizon.net
Phone 1-215-333-6510
Dave (NUTTZ)
Originally posted by Brooke
Here is the leading candidate of the Operation Husky patch I'm trying to get produced. It's taken a very long time, as the patch company was having a lot of trouble with the plane outlines -- I had to go back and forth a lot on different versions.
Anyway, if they are able to make the following, this is the one I'll go with:
(http://www.electraforge.com/brooke/misc/aces_high/husky1.jpg)
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Thats called "stich pull componsation" if you sew the letter I and O the O needs to be sewn alittle bit bigger than the I the direction of the sew will pull it smaller in that direction, since the I is sewn side to side, there will be no pulling or shrinkage of the design up and down. But side to side the I will get thinner. As the Bottom and top of the O will get thinner as well as the sides of the O so if done the same size the I will be taller.
That is NOT the patch designers problem but the Patch Maker. Just to put a light on how hard it is to make the smallest of details AKA the Macci canopy shape.
NUTTZ
Originally posted by Brooke
The Operation Downfall patch had to go through a couple of iterations, but not as many. A top-down outline is more tolerant of little changes not affecting the perception of what plane type it is. A side-on profile is much more touchy -- the visual cues people go by (cockpit canopy shape, tail shape, scoops under the fuselage, etc.) are smaller details.
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Good news -- the patches are in.
(http://electraforge.com/brooke/flightsims/scenarios/200706_husky/pics/huskyPatch300.jpg)
I will be sending the following out via e-mail to all registrants shortly:
Hello, pilots who registered for the scenario Operation Husky, which ran back in June, 2007. (If you want some pictorials of the action from that scenario to remind you what it was like, feel free to visit http://electraforge.com/brooke/flightsims/scenarios/200706_husky/husky.htm ).
The patch for this scenario is finally produced, and all pilots who would like a patch are encouraged to send e-mail to Roscoroo ( roscoroo at hotmail.com ) requesting one. That's all you have to do -- just send him your physical mail address, and you'll get one. Also, as noted on this page http://electraforge.com/brooke/flightsims/patches/patches.html there are patches available from past scenarios as well -- let Roscoroo know if you want any of the past patches and which you want.
Please do not send me your request for getting a patch -- Roscoroo is the one to contact about that. He has very generously volunteered his time and effort to do the mailings. Thank you very much, Roscoroo!
The next patch to be produced will be one for the scenario Der Grosse Schlag, which ran in October, 2007. We are starting the process of gathering donations enough to total about US$250 to start that patch run. If you'd like to contribute to that effort, please see http://electraforge.com/brooke/flightsims/patches/patches.html for information.
Thanks, all, and I hope to see each of you in the next scenario. The date of the next scenario hasn't yet been determined, but it will be announced on ahevents.org, in the Aces High message board, and in the Main Arenas when we have it.
Best regards,
-- Brooke
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Once again, excellent work! :salute
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thats it guys keep the requests coming Roscoroo@hotmail.com .. I'll collect addys this week and do the 1st mailing this weekend .
For you guys that live in the same Country (Finland as example) its easier to send one large patch order to one place then it is to send all individual orders (customs on each one and it gets really expensive)
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I dropped off the patches to Roscoroo last night, and he's got a list of addresses. If you haven't sent in a request for a patch yet, please feel free to send your name and physical mail address to him (roscoroo at hotmail.com).
Also, we still have patches from various past scenarios (see http://electraforge.com/brooke/flightsims/patches/patches.html to know which ones area available).