Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: rpm on May 20, 2007, 01:55:00 AM
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Just when I think McCain has turned into the lapdog I had feared, he turns around and biotch slaps Texas' lamest Senator dead in his tracks over immigration, F-bomb style.
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/capitol-briefing/
smackdown:aok
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Mccain, . Liberal. I spit on him, not for being a liberal, but for his dishonesty in posing as a conservative.
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spitting on people. (rolls eyes)
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Speaking of growing a pair, by "spit on him" you mean you "pretend spit on him over the internet" instead of actually doing it to his face.
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:: spits on jb88 ::
:: laughs ::
:: apologizes to jb88 ::
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mccain is a hen in men's apparell
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RINO.
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Originally posted by storch
mccain is a hen in men's apparell
I will wait till you spend 5+ years in the Hanoi Hilton before I think you should be judging him.
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I'm really hoping that when Newt throws his hat in the ring he has/gains enough support to win the nomination.
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Originally posted by Dago
I will wait till you spend 5+ years in the Hanoi Hilton before I think you should be judging him.
His time in the hilton doesn't give him a free pass to do whatever he wants.
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All the argument aside, but I'd really like to see these politicians who are supposed to be attending sessions and voting on the proposals for their constiuents would either attend and vote on the issues instead of spending their time campaigning. McCain apparently just missed his 43rd consecutive vote, this latest one on the budget outline. It seems to me that you should have to make a choice. Running for another office while you are in a current office would mean you have to vacate your seat in the current office.
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Originally posted by Bodhi
All the argument aside, but I'd really like to see these politicians who are supposed to be attending sessions and voting on the proposals for their constiuents would either attend and vote on the issues instead of spending their time campaigning. McCain apparently just missed his 43rd consecutive vote, this latest one on the budget outline. It seems to me that you should have to make a choice. Running for another office while you are in a current office would mean you have to vacate your seat in the current office.
That's actually a pretty decent idea. But would the people who actually control the laws that are written really do it?
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This bill is McCain's baby, and the guy gets FURIOUS when he doesn't get his way---360 page immigration 'reform' bill, just released on Thursday, and he and others of his ilk trying to force a cloture vote to end debate---salamanders-- "Don't read it...just SIGN it"
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
His time in the hilton doesn't give him a free pass to do whatever he wants.
It gives me a permanent pass on being called a hen in men's apparell
in my eyes. He has earned the respect that prohibits that kind of disrespect.
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Originally posted by Dago
I will wait till you spend 5+ years in the Hanoi Hilton before I think you should be judging him.
I forgot to add poor pilot as well
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Originally posted by JB88
spitting on people. (rolls eyes)
I am a bit taken aback by your ignorance of figurative speech.
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Originally posted by Dago
It gives me a permanent pass on being called in my eyes. He has earned the respect that prohibits that kind of disrespect.
We are referring to his politics, not his manhood. If you are having trouble w/ comprehension, and it is clear you are, you should ask questions. This way people will see you as wise enough to learn instead of the ignorant dullard you are portraying in this thread.
Unless you really are an ignorant dullard, in which case, carry on!
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McCain was against tax cuts, joined the 'gang of 14', which essentially ended Bush's chances of EVER appointing conservative judges to Fed appellate positions, has dismissed the southern bible belt folks as loons, authored that frightful McCain-Feingold bill, which prevents folks like us from donating money to candidates near an election (but which does NOTHING to stop those gawdawful 527 groups, which are funded by folks like Soros from donating BILLIONS--and money IS speech).....and the guy is now trying to make 20 million 3rd world people citizens, who are going to start drawing on Social Security about the same time it goes bankrupt.
I'm sorry some of the best years of his life were spent in that hell-hole, but that doesn't give the salamander the right to be the GOP nominee for President, nor does it give him a pass on criticism
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Originally posted by bj229r
snip
and the guy is now trying to make 20 million 3rd world people citizens, who are going to start drawing on Social Security about the same time it goes bankrupt.
Don't forget they will start paying into the system when they become legal, something that isn't happening now.
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Originally posted by culero
Don't forget they will start paying into the system when they become legal, something that isn't happening now.
don't you mean "if"?
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Originally posted by rpm
Just when I think McCain has turned into the lapdog I had feared, he turns around and biotch slaps Texas' lamest Senator dead in his tracks over immigration, F-bomb style.
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/capitol-briefing/
smackdown:aok
He's still a flip-flopping neo-con lapdog. He's not to be trusted.
Straight talk, my ass.
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Originally posted by culero
Don't forget they will start paying into the system when they become legal, something that isn't happening now.
8 dollar an hour job isn't gonna contribute near as much as they will take out in govt. paymentsfrom welfare, food stamps, local school expenditures for their children
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Believe me Sandy, I don't trust him enough to vote for him. But, it was nice to see him stand his ground for a change instead of crumbling to the party's minions. Bush ruined any chances McCain ever had.
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Originally posted by rpm
Believe me Sandy, I don't trust him enough to vote for him. But, it was nice to see him stand his ground for a change instead of crumbling to the party's minions. Bush ruined any chances McCain ever had.
Like I've said before, he himself ruined his chances. Until he stepped up into the spotlight for the 2000 primaries, no one really knew who he was. If had never run, he could have gotten really high up in the senate.
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But for his views on the War, McCain has more in common with Dems than Republicans
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Originally posted by SteveBailey
Mccain, . Liberal. I spit on him, not for being a liberal, but for his dishonesty in posing as a conservative.
Alot of people like spitting on Vietnam vets.
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Originally posted by Thrawn
Alot of people like spitting on Vietnam vets.
My bet is that you were probably one of the first in line to be doing just that. I guess the question I should ask is if you spit on any Gulf War Vets?
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b4 anyone slams him,walk a few miles not only in his shoes but his memories.i got spit on when i came back from iraq,f..king back stabbers
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bush is the best allie the ragheds could have
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John McCain has nothing but my respect for his service and sacrifice. However, that does not qualify him to lead our nation.
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McCain is a camera chaser. He's much like Bill Clinton, in that his beleifs will change on a dime, depending on the poll of the week.
As for Newt, he talks and says the right things conservatives like. However his credibility is shot. The man was having an affair while hotly persuing Bill Clinton over his misdeeds.
Im quite curius to see what Fred Thompson has to say when and if he gets involved.
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Originally posted by LePaul
McCain is a camera chaser. He's much like Bill Clinton, in that his beleifs will change on a dime, depending on the poll of the week.
As for Newt, he talks and says the right things conservatives like. However his credibility is shot. The man was having an affair while hotly persuing Bill Clinton over his misdeeds.
Im quite curius to see what Fred Thompson has to say when and if he gets involved.
While I like Newt I am also interested in Fred. I'm also hopeful that Tom Tancredo makes it to the final round.
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Originally posted by storch
I forgot to add poor pilot as well
Thanks for illustrating what an extrahunk you are with that comment.
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Originally posted by bj229r
I'm sorry some of the best years of his life were spent in that hell-hole, but that doesn't give the salamander the right to be the GOP nominee for President, nor does it give him a pass on criticism
Here is an idea that might escape some, disagree with him if you feel he is wrong, and do not fear doing so, but I think anyone with even a shred of decency and/or a small inkling of history should refrain from juvenile insults towards the man. He has earned respect as a man in a way none of us will ever have to do, and he does not use his past as an excuse, for sympathy or for personal gain.
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Originally posted by Dago
Here is an idea that might escape some, disagree with him if you feel he is wrong, and do not fear doing so, but I think anyone with even a shred of decency and/or a small inkling of history should refrain from juvenile insults towards the man. He has earned respect as a man in a way none of us will ever have to do, and he does not use his past as an excuse, for sympathy or for personal gain.
I'll agree that he earned respect.
But **** me, he has lost it all with good hard work.
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For his military service to our country, I have all the respect and admiration in the world for John McCain. As for his service in the legislative branch of the government, for that, he ranks just a little higher than Randy Cunningham. SENATOR McCain is a pandering RINO, who is only a media darling because he IS a RINO.
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Originally posted by culero
Don't forget they will start paying into the system when they become legal, something that isn't happening now.
You mean they will be taking away EVEN more from tax payers than they are now.
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Originally posted by Sandman
He's still a flip-flopping neo-con lapdog. He's not to be trusted.
Straight talk, my ass.
He's a long way from being a Neo-con. He's a lib in Repub clothing, betrayer of conservatives. He is not to be trusted because, as someone mentioned, he is much like Clinton: stick his finger in the political wind and take the position that will garner the most votes.
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Originally posted by SteveBailey
I am a bit taken aback by your ignorance of figurative speech.
funny, i don't feel the slightest bit ignorant about what you meant and how you meant it.
it's a bit comical really. when it isn't being sad.
anywhoo.
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not a huge mccain fan. his embrace of bush went beyond the requirement and into the realm of toady. when i saw bush speak in florida, i watched as he nearly tripped over himself to be close to him...it changed what had been an extremely high position of the man.
that said, spitting on him, be it metaphorical or otherwise is not even remotely where i stand. i probably just won't vote for him.
(i also have to give him credit for reaching across the aisle ALOT in recent years. i respect that)
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Originally posted by Dago
Thanks for illustrating what an extrahunk you are with that comment.
your welcome. I had no idea you two were romantically involved.
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Originally posted by JB88
(i also have to give him credit for reaching across the aisle ALOT in recent years. i respect that)
Yeah, he sells out conservative principles by "reaching across the aisle", it makes the media fawn over him almost as if he were really a Democrat. Between catering to the polls and the media, he's got most of his votes covered.
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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
Yeah, he sells out conservative principles by "reaching across the aisle", it makes the media fawn over him almost as if he were really a Democrat. Between catering to the polls and the media, he's got most of his votes covered.
i think that compromise is the key to any healthy system. binary black and white thinking is what tears it down...it's what stymies it.
just an opinion. of course.
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Compromise?
More like selling out. Something my two, ahem, Republican Senators (Snowe & Collins) do repeatedly....often WITH Mr McCain.
You elect people based on what they tell you and their principles. My two senators love to appeal to the conservatives and wave how alike they are. Then when the road gets rough, they are the first to cave.
I mean, only McCain and my senators, when they held a MAJORITY, would come up with this moronic "power sharing" idea when they owned the Senate.
Gee, now that the Dems won back control, I dont seem to see them "sharing the power" with them now.
As I said before, McCain's views change by the day.
I appreciate his service to our country as a military member. But its his actions in the Senate Chambers that Im basing my opinion of him.
And calling the guy a bad pilot because he was whacked by a Surface to Air Missile? That's bold. I'd love to see you stand before a group of military pilots who were POWs and expect to leave the room alive.
Sorry, Storch, you went way low on that.
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Compromise is not the key when your constituents vote you in for a certain party.
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
Compromise is not the key when your constituents vote you in for a certain party.
so do you live in arizona or just speak for them?
:confused:
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Originally posted by JB88
so do you live in arizona or just speak for them?
:confused:
Naw JB88 he's just a spoiled College kid living in PA living off Daddys money... Bet he's a tree hugger too.
Mac
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<---- bonafide tree ****er.
:cool:
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Why Gonzales even bothers with this is beyond me. Would love to see him just get up in the middle of a question, and walk out after saying, "Ladies and gentlemen, we have nothing to discuss. I work for the President, at his pleasure, not you or yours."
Just once, say the right thing then no more and watch the strokes the libs go through.
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Originally posted by culero
Don't forget they will start paying into the system when they become legal, something that isn't happening now.
... Paying into the system ..... ? ..
They do not make enough to be above the poverty level to mandate they pay taxes ..." a free pass " and the right to plunder the social services and guess who pays for that through their Taxes ...
as it is right now ...
here is where some of the money goes ...
by those who lawlessly invade our nation.
Between 2001-2004, the incarceration of criminal aliens cost America about $5.8 Billion.
But the families of the victims below, paid the highest price.
"Nearly 1 Million sex crimes were committed by illegals...between January 1999 and April 2006"
---Deborah Schurman-Kauflin
"Hispanic immigrants...are involved in a disproportionate number of pedestrian and bicyclist crashes.
The role of alcohol (in these cases) should be addressed."
---Federal Highway Administration
"Congressman Steve King (R-Iowa) stated on July 1, 2006, 'Illegal aliens kill 25 Americans daily, seven days a week, 365 days a year...that adds up to 9,125 dead Americans every year.' This is a 9/11 every four months and more Americans than we've lost fighting terrorist in the Gulf and Iraqi Wars combined."
---Mary Williams, Director of Protect Our Citizens
"Thousands of Americans die at the hands of illegal aliens every year. Our state and local governments serve as the front line of defense against terrorism and criminal aliens. Every murder, every rape, every violent gang crime committed against Americans by illegal aliens is an utterly preventable crime. If we better enforce our immigration laws to keep criminals out, we will save lives. We must use the law enforcement resources we have, at every level, to enforce our laws, with the end result of making our nation a safer place for our grandchildren to grow up in."
---Congressman Steve King (IA)....
These socialist fools , McCain , Kennedy, Jon Kyl, and Spector endorse giving a free pass .....
and Bush is gona sign it ..... and the blue collar class will have the tax burden on them to pay for it... to the tune of 2.8 Trillion dollars ......
!Respect for Senator McCain! ? .... "he and the company he keeps and what they are doing to America .... , scares the Hell outa me" .....
Bob/CHECKERS
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i said that i respected his efforts to reach across the aisle, an act which has gone against the grain of the great failure that is our current failure of an administration.
yes. i do respect bipartisanism.
the dualistic thinking that has been so rife for the past 6 years has gotten us nowhere. nowhere.
drawing a straight party line is an activity best suited to the weak minded...these are the people who want to belong to something but with the least amount of resistance.
in the voter pool; party liners are the autobots who point fingers at those who dont follow the line...irregardless of the reasons behind it or the sensibility of an arguement. they dont want to change their minds so they don't really listen. they don't want to accept that there might be another worldview because thier insecurity tells them that they would be less of a person if it turned out that they were wrong.
i find it very boring talking with party liners because i always feel that i am not really talking to them, rather, i am talking to a recording.
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he will lose
(http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u202/sandybeaches05/fee5a6251d2d24f5d3f0718366499162604.gif)
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:rofl
is that your idea of spreading love? lol
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:rofl
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Originally posted by culero
Don't forget they will start paying into the system when they become legal, something that isn't happening now.
They havent followed the rules so far...why should they start now?
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Originally posted by CHECKERS
... Paying into the system ..... ? ..
They do not make enough to be above the poverty level to mandate they pay taxes ..." a free pass " and the right to plunder the social services and guess who pays for that through their Taxes ...
as it is right now ...
here is where some of the money goes ...
by those who lawlessly invade our nation.
Between 2001-2004, the incarceration of criminal aliens cost America about $5.8 Billion.
But the families of the victims below, paid the highest price.
"Nearly 1 Million sex crimes were committed by illegals...between January 1999 and April 2006"
---Deborah Schurman-Kauflin
"Hispanic immigrants...are involved in a disproportionate number of pedestrian and bicyclist crashes.
The role of alcohol (in these cases) should be addressed."
---Federal Highway Administration
"Congressman Steve King (R-Iowa) stated on July 1, 2006, 'Illegal aliens kill 25 Americans daily, seven days a week, 365 days a year...that adds up to 9,125 dead Americans every year.' This is a 9/11 every four months and more Americans than we've lost fighting terrorist in the Gulf and Iraqi Wars combined."
---Mary Williams, Director of Protect Our Citizens
"Thousands of Americans die at the hands of illegal aliens every year. Our state and local governments serve as the front line of defense against terrorism and criminal aliens. Every murder, every rape, every violent gang crime committed against Americans by illegal aliens is an utterly preventable crime. If we better enforce our immigration laws to keep criminals out, we will save lives. We must use the law enforcement resources we have, at every level, to enforce our laws, with the end result of making our nation a safer place for our grandchildren to grow up in."
---Congressman Steve King (IA)....
Wow, so much disinformation here...where to start...
If we put them into the SS system THEY WOULD pay tax. Being poor does not exempt you from Social Security taxes.
How many TOTAL sex crimes happened in those 6 1/2 years?
What is the disporportionate number? What is the percentage of hispanic pedestrians? Perhaps because more hispanics ARE pedestrians and ride bicycles plays a factor.
How many Americans kill Americans? How many people die in car accidents daily? How many undocumented workers die every day?
Get some decent information and credible stats. Until we make it unprofitable for companies to employ undocumented workers, we will continue to have illegal aliens. Until Americans perform those low paying manual labor jobs, companies will continue to need illegal aliens.
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Originally shouted by John McCain (R-Ariz)
"**** you! I know more about this than anyone else in the room,"
ROFL, he stole that from my negotiation toolbox.
-Sik
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Originally posted by rpm
Wow, so much disinformation here...where to start...
If we put them into the SS system THEY WOULD pay tax. Being poor does not exempt you from Social Security taxes.
How many TOTAL sex crimes happened in those 6 1/2 years?
What is the disporportionate number? What is the percentage of hispanic pedestrians? Perhaps because more hispanics ARE pedestrians and ride bicycles plays a factor.
How many Americans kill Americans? How many people die in car accidents daily? How many undocumented workers die every day?
Get some decent information and credible stats. Until we make it unprofitable for companies to employ undocumented workers, we will continue to have illegal aliens. Until Americans perform those low paying manual labor jobs, companies will continue to need illegal aliens.
Here ! read it for yourself ......
May 19, 2007
The Senate's Comprehensive Immigration Reform Package
by The Heritage Foundation
FYI
Working behind closed doors for months, a handful of Democratic and Republican staffers, along with a few senators and principals from the Administration, have been drafting a “comprehensive immigration reform package.” Until Saturday morning, the legislation was unavailable to any other senators or staff, let alone the media, policy analysts, or the general public.
This legislation would be the most significant reform of immigration policy in 40 years, affecting not only our national security and homeland defense but the fiscal, economic, and social future of the United States for several generations.
For the sake of open deliberation and public education, The Heritage Foundation is making this legislation, in draft form, publicly available to encourage widespread debate and discussion.
The document made available here, although marked “DRAFT – FOR DISCUSSION PURPOSES ONLY,” is being relied upon by senators and staff as the final language to be debated beginning on Monday, May 21, with the expectation of a vote on final passage—without congressional hearings, committee mark-up, fiscal analysis, expert testimony, or public comment—before the end of the week.
http://www.heritage.org/Research/Immigration/upload/Immigration_Draft_Amendment_5_18_07.pdf (http://www.heritage.org/Research/Immigration/upload/Immigration_Draft_Amendment_5_18_07.pdf)
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Checkers, I'm not trying to be a jerk, but what does the bill have to do with my post? I was addressing the misinformation in your quotes.
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
RINO.
Huh? Apparently my handle got turned into an insult while I was out?
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RINO; Republican In Name Only.
As opposed to Rhino, short for Rhinoceros.
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Originally posted by rpm
Checkers, I'm not trying to be a jerk, but what does the bill have to do with my post? I was addressing the misinformation in your quotes.
RPM,
Everything I posted also contains the sources .... everything....
Your claim of misinformation's so-far has been backed with zero foundation...
McCain flips on everything he says .....
Support for McCain on issue you give him credit for, is easyer than thinking ......
ps
I'm sure you still don't get it ....
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This guy has done a large study on the long-term effects of this:
link (http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=MzFhZDE2Y2NiYzQzY2NiY2MxMjIwY2I3OWFhNzgzNTQ=)
Illegal immigration is now a major cause of child poverty. According to the Pew Hispanic Center, 4.7 million children of illegal immigrant parents currently live in the U.S. Some 37 percent of these children are poor. While children of illegal immigrant parents make up around 6 percent of all children in the U.S., they are 11.8 percent of all poor children.
This high level of child poverty among illegal immigrants in the U.S. is in part due to low education levels and low wages. It is also linked to the decline in marriage among Hispanics in the U.S. Within this group, 45 percent of children are born out of wedlock. Among foreign-born Hispanics the rate is 42.3 percent. By contrast, the out-of-wedlock birth rate for non-Hispanic whites is 23.4 percent. The birth rate for Hispanic teens is higher than for black teens. While the out-of-wedlock birth rate for blacks has remained flat for the last decade, it has risen steadily for Hispanics. These figures are important because, as noted, some 80 percent of illegal aliens come from Mexico and Latin America.
In general, children born and raised outside of marriage are seven times more likely to live in poverty than children born and raised by married couples. Children born out of wedlock are also more likely to be on welfare, to have lower educational achievement, to have emotional problems, to abuse drugs and alcohol, and to become involved in crime.
The federal government currently operates a massive system of income redistribution: The upper-middle class is taxed, and money and services are transferred to the lower-income half of the population. In 2004, some $583 billion was transferred in this way. Current immigration in the U.S. disproportionately brings poorly educated individuals with a high probability of unwed births into the U.S. Over the last 20 years, around 10 million individuals without a high-school diploma have entered the United States. These individuals inevitably end up on the recipient end of the income-redistribution equation, providing an extra tax burden on the already hard-pressed middle-class taxpayers.
There is a remarkably foolish idea now running through the Senate, that the key to solving the Social Security crisis is to import into the U.S. tens of millions of low-skill immigrants, earning perhaps $20,000 per year, along with their families. The folly of this should be apparent. For most of these individuals, receipt of the earned income tax credit alone will outweigh Social Security taxes paid. The overall costs such individuals will add to government programs throughout their lifetime (including welfare, social security, Medicare, education for children, transportation, and law enforcement) will greatly exceed taxes paid.
Immigration to the U.S. is a privilege, not a right. Immigrants should be net contributors to the government and society and should not be a fiscal burden. To reduce the looming Social Security deficit and to strengthen the nation, the U.S. should encourage immigration of high-skill workers who will be fiscal contributors, not low-skill workers who will be fiscal takers. In this respect, the Hagel/Martinez bill is on the wrong course; it will make the finance books of government worse, not better.
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Senator McCain just committed political suicide, at least among conservatives.
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I don't think it's his balls that are in question here... probably his brain.
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mccain is our ONLY hope. clinton is a mad-woman, obama has no experience (just a smooth talker), and guliani from what i hear supports gay marriage and abortion.
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Originally posted by folkwufe
mccain is our ONLY hope. clinton is a mad-woman, obama has no experience (just a smooth talker), and guliani from what i hear supports gay marriage and abortion.
Fred Thompson is my hope for the next President.
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ive never heard of him
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Originally posted by folkwufe
ive never heard of him
You've just disqualified yourself. Do not speak of politics again... ever. ;)
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Originally posted by Sandman
You've just disqualified yourself. Do not speak of politics again... ever. ;)
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How many Americans kill Americans? How many people die in car accidents daily?
tell me how this matters? If Americans kill more Americans that illegals do, does that make it ok that illegals kill over 9000 per year?
The point is, 9000 people per year would not be killed if we merely enforced existing laws. Can you admit that this would be a good thing?
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Originally posted by CHECKERS
RPM,
Everything I posted also contains the sources .... everything....
Your claim of misinformation's so-far has been backed with zero foundation...
McCain flips on everything he says .....
Support for McCain on issue you give him credit for, is easyer than thinking ......
ps
I'm sure you still don't get it ....
Checkers, Everything you posted has a name attached, but no source.... none....your claim of fact is not backed with figures. So far all you have done is repeat a few talking points with no foundation.
I asked for comparison numbers to substantiate the random talking point quotes you Rip-n-Pasted and you give me the bill with out any figures to back up your quotes.
ps
I'm sure you know that because you no idea what the actual numbers are and you just post what some propaganda website tells you to without researching their unfounded claims.
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Originally posted by SteveBailey
tell me how this matters? If Americans kill more Americans that illegals do, does that make it ok that illegals kill over 9000 per year?
The point is, 9000 people per year would not be killed if we merely enforced existing laws. Can you admit that this would be a good thing?
I'm just trying to verify claims like this.
Thousands of Americans die at the hands of illegal aliens every year.
Really? What is the percentage of deaths overall? Is it .0005% or is it 65%?
Thousands of people commit voilent crimes with firearms. 88% of Federal offenders involved with firearms were U.S.
citizens source (http://www.ojp.gov/bjs/pub/ascii/ffro.txt)
The point is 88% of violent crimes would be prevented if guns were not available. Does that mean US citizens should not have guns?
No, it does not. Numbers can be taken out of context and spun to fit almost any shinola. You can drink the Kool-Aid some biased website is serving or you can research and find the actual numbers and think for yourself.
I prefer to think for myself.
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Originally posted by rpm
So, you can't admit 9000 less deaths would be a good thing. I didn't think so. What if it's 7000, or only 5000...1000? RPM, it sickens me that you are so politically left of center that you can't even admit that less murders in the US is a good thing.
Tell me RPM, should we just open the borders and let everyone in? Answer the question.
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Steve, if we follow your logic you would have us remove every gun in America because they cause deaths. Can't you admit guns kill people and less guns would equal less murders which is the string you're clinging to? It's a strawman arguement.
Answer my original question (show me the numbers) and quit tap dancing and flag waving. But, you don't have the answer so you have to tap dance and flag wave to divert attention from the fact you can't back up what you say. After you do that, I'll answer your question.
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Originally posted by Dago
Fred Thompson is my hope for the next President.
Dago..... Same here, Fred Thompson !
Regards,
CHECKERS...........
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Originally posted by folkwufe
ive never heard of him
Folkwufe, ...Have a look at this....
http://www.fred08.com/ (http://www.fred08.com/)
http://www.fred08.com/ (http://www.fred08.com/)
CHECKERS
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Originally posted by rpm
Checkers, Everything you posted has a name attached, but no source.... none....your claim of fact is not backed with figures. So far all you have done is repeat a few talking points with no foundation.
I asked for comparison numbers to substantiate the random talking point quotes you Rip-n-Pasted and you give me the bill with out any figures to back up your quotes.
ps
I'm sure you know that because you no idea what the actual numbers are and you just post what some propaganda website tells you to without researching their unfounded claims.
RPM . I'm not running a school for McCain supporters ..... you want the
numbers / you do the math .... Opps... I almost forgot, you need help finding clues to where this might be found ....
C-SPAN 1 or 2 ..... ,( it's just a short hop from The Cartoon Network on TV... )
GOOGLE !, YAHOO, HOTBOT, propangda website ? " if you are using LaRaz or Azlan ( http://www.aztlan.net/ (http://www.aztlan.net/ ) ) for your information" .... You still won't get it.....
Try.... The Congressional Record ..... but that is going to require effort,
& will require you to do some simple thinking....& research on your part ..... LOL....
Try this, here you will find numbers , 358,000 links ......
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=McCain+flip+flops&btnG=Google+Search
CHECKERS
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Originally posted by rpm
Steve, if we follow your logic you would have us remove every gun in America because they cause deaths. Can't you admit guns kill people and less guns would equal less murders which is the string you're clinging to? It's a strawman arguement.
Answer my original question (show me the numbers) and quit tap dancing and flag waving. But, you don't have the answer so you have to tap dance and flag wave to divert attention from the fact you can't back up what you say. After you do that, I'll answer your question.
Put a gun in a room with 10 people tied to chairs. How many people would die? You are likening guns to criminal humans. Sorry, it just doesn't fly. Guns are inanimate and have no malicious intent of their own. Your comparison might fly at your liberal AA meetings but not here. As for answering your question, you didn't ask me one, you asked somebody else.
You're a sick fu** RPM. You are so wrapped in winning an argument and being a left wing nutjob that even the simplest of admissions is impossible for you. You were disputing numbers at 9000 dead each year. I threw that out and asked you to agree that even 1000 less deaths would be a good thing. You, in your twisted hatred of anything not leftist, just couldn't breing yourself to do it. Get help, you are one sick SOB.
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Damn Steve, lighten up, it ain't worth it. I understand where you're coming from but trust me, it ain't worth the effort. Or the stress.
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That was my last post to him, Virgil. They guy is an ignorant nutjob.
Sorry virgil, had to post again... I'm amazed that someone can be this thick.
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Originally posted by SteveBailey
You're a sick fu** RPM. You are so wrapped in winning an argument and being a left wing nutjob that even the simplest of admissions is impossible for you. You were disputing numbers at 9000 dead each year. I threw that out and asked you to agree that even 1000 less deaths would be a good thing. You, in your twisted hatred of anything not leftist, just couldn't breing yourself to do it. Get help, you are one sick SOB.
Got tired of looking for numbers to back up those claims I see. That's OK. Next time, use a source that can back up what they post, not one that just sounds really good to you.
Too bad you had to pull the "I'll call him names because I'm losing the debate" handle.
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Originally posted by rpm
Got tired of looking for numbers to back up those claims I see. That's OK. Next time, use a source that can back up what they post, not one that just sounds really good to you.
Too bad you had to pull the "I'll call him names because I'm losing the debate" handle.
RPM, why are you so thick as to not understand what I'm saying?
A: you and I are not debating.
B: I merely asked you to acknowledge that less murders in the US would be a good thing. I even went so low as 1000, which is a far cry from the 9000 that SOMEONE else posted. So again, I'm not using any source, I dismissed the 9000 from our discussion. What is it in your mind that makes you incapable of comprehending this? You are so desperate to win a debate that only you are having that you cannot acknowledge less murders are better. Let me make myself clear: We are not debating, you do not lose anything if you somehow manage to concede that less murders would be good. You are so incapable of having a civil and logical discussion, no we are NOT debating, that it has become apparent to me that name calling is about all you understand.
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To get right down to it Steve, I asked CHECKERS for a source to his quotes. You jumped in and tried to derail that with a strawman arguement. But, using your same logic (and this IS a debate, BTW) I'll change the guns scenario to something less close to your heart, let's say automobiles. 42,836 people were killed in/by automobiles in 2005 (note this little thingy>)source (http://www.autosafety.org/article.php?did=1229&scid=37) . If we just eliminated automobiles those 42,836 people would still be alive. Can't you just admit getting rid of automobiles would be a good thing?
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Originally posted by rpm
Can't you just admit getting rid of automobiles would be a good thing?
Again, you fail to comprehend wha I am discussing. I'll try again. Automobiles do not cause deaths, the people driving the cars do.
For the third time, you've tried to answer a question with another question. There is no straw man argument, there is no argument at all.
If this were a debate, and you were asked a question first, is this how you debate? Someone asks you a question, you refuse to answer and ask a question in return? Then you somehow consider this tactic winning? Sorry, I cannot see what is "winning" about refusing to answer a question. How exactly is that winning?
I am merely proving with each post(although it is not my intent) that you are so twisted, so desperately leftist that you are unable to grasp that having less murderers in the US would be a good thing. I am unable to twist my mind so evilly, so ignorantly as yours must be twisted so I cannot grasp your chain of thought.
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And again, you ignore the fact I'm pointing out you're creating a strawman argument.
Definition of a Strawman Argument. (http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/straw-man.html)
ps, still waiting for numbers to back up the original question.
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Originally posted by SteveBailey
Put a gun in a room with 10 people tied to chairs. How many people would die? You are likening guns to criminal humans. Sorry, it just doesn't fly. Guns are inanimate and have no malicious intent of their own. Your comparison might fly at your liberal AA meetings but not here. As for answering your question, you didn't ask me one, you asked somebody else.
Here is one for proof! Assault Weapon Watch (http://www.assaultweaponwatch.com/) :D
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Originally posted by rpm
And again, you ignore the fact I'm pointing out you're creating a strawman argument.
Definition of a Strawman Argument. (http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/straw-man.html)
ps, still waiting for numbers to back up the original question.
I asked you the original question between the two of us. since you say this is a debate and you refuse to answer my question, you lose.
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As soon as my original question is answered (which came first BTW), I'll move forward and answer yours. We can run in circles like this all night if you like but it's rather pointless. Just admit all the phony baloney quotes have no basis in fact and we can discuss your strawman.
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Originally posted by rpm
And again, you ignore the fact I'm pointing out you're creating a strawman argument.
Definition of a Strawman Argument. (http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/straw-man.html)
ps, still waiting for numbers to back up the original question.
RPM , here you go ( handed to you on your level ) .... read it for yourself...... ( take you time , It's in English ) :noid
Here is just one of many reports ( 2005 ) from ...
The United States Government Accountability Office
Washington, DC 20548
The Honorable John N. Hostetter,
Chairman , Border Security & Claims .
House of Representatives, United states of America
http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d05646r.pdf (http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d05646r.pdf)
ps Rest assured, you still won't get it .....
CHECKERS
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Originally posted by rpm
As soon as my original question is answered (which came first BTW), I'll move forward and answer yours. We can run in circles like this all night if you like but it's rather pointless. Just admit all the phony baloney quotes have no basis in fact and we can discuss your strawman.
RPM, take those quotes up with checkers, I'm not discussing them with you, he is.
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Originally posted by CHECKERS
"Nearly 1 Million sex crimes were committed by illegals...between January 1999 and April 2006"
---Deborah Schurman-Kauflin
"Hispanic immigrants...are involved in a disproportionate number of pedestrian and bicyclist crashes.
The role of alcohol (in these cases) should be addressed."
---Federal Highway Administration
"Congressman Steve King (R-Iowa) stated on July 1, 2006, 'Illegal aliens kill 25 Americans daily, seven days a week, 365 days a year...that adds up to 9,125 dead Americans every year.' This is a 9/11 every four months and more Americans than we've lost fighting terrorist in the Gulf and Iraqi Wars combined."
---Mary Williams, Director of Protect Our Citizens
"Thousands of Americans die at the hands of illegal aliens every year. Our state and local governments serve as the front line of defense against terrorism and criminal aliens. Every murder, every rape, every violent gang crime committed against Americans by illegal aliens is an utterly preventable crime. If we better enforce our immigration laws to keep criminals out, we will save lives. We must use the law enforcement resources we have, at every level, to enforce our laws, with the end result of making our nation a safer place for our grandchildren to grow up in."
---Congressman Steve King (IA)....
Bob/CHECKERS
Hmm, read the whole report and didn't see Deborah Schurman-Kauflin, Mary Williams or Congressman King listed anywhere. But that's OK.
THIS (http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/crimoff.htm) would have been a better source to reference. I've been sitting on it since I asked the question. (Never ask a question in a debate that you don't already know the answer to.)
There were 1.3 million adults in prison in 2001. Of that 1.3 million, 55,322 were used for the GAO alien study. That's 4% of the total prison population. Of that 4%, 68% were in prison only on immigration charges, 1% or less were incarcerated for violent crimes. 13 for homicide, 28 for robbery. That's using your numbers, 41 people. Forty-one people. I don't see 13 illegal aliens killing thousands and thousands of Americans. I'm pretty sure that would have made FOX news.
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Originally posted by SteveBailey
tell me how this matters? If Americans kill more Americans that illegals do, does that make it ok that illegals kill over 9000 per year?
The point is, 9000 people per year would not be killed if we merely enforced existing laws. Can you admit that this would be a good thing?
Now that CHECKERS has been answered, I'll move forward to Steve's burning question...
I can admit it would be a good thing, if it was true that illegals kill thousands of Americans every year, but it's not true.
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Originally posted by rpm
...
I can admit it would be a good thing, if it was true that illegals kill thousands of Americans every year, but it's not true.
Source?
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In the last 6 months alone, illegal aliens driving drunk, without a license, with previous arrests (they won't deport them or keep them in jail) have killed more than a dozen people within a 50 mile radius of my house. Now, that's drunk illegal aliens who do not INTEND to kill others. I haven't had time to go search for the exact numbers, but illegals have been credited with about 2 dozen murders in this general area in the last 6-7 months. But Hell, that's just around my little area, I'm sure illegal aliens don't kill people, accidentally or on purpose, anywhere else in the country.
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Originally posted by SteveBailey
Source?
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/crimoff.htm
Same one I quoted earlier.
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Ahem.
http://www.sierratimes.com/06/06/23/152_163_101_8_68330.htm
At the same time, after a steady annual reduction in crime, the annual FBI Uniform Crime Report reveals a slow but sure yearly increase in crime, especially violent crime. Some criminologists attribute the rise in crime to illegal aliens who come into the United States with a criminal background.
Many illegal aliens in the United States have been arrested and incarcerated in federal and state prisons and local jails, adding to already overcrowded prisons and jails. The US Justice Department issued a report on criminal aliens who are incarcerated in federal and state prisons and local jails.
The report contained information on the number of criminal aliens incarcerated, their country of citizenship or country of birth, and the cost to incarcerate them. Congress also requested that the Government Accounting Office provide information on the criminal history of aliens incarcerated in federal and state prisons or local jails who had entered the country illegally.
In the population study of a sample of 55,322 illegal aliens, researchers found that they were arrested at least a total of 459,614 times, averaging about 8 arrests per illegal alien. Nearly all had more than 1 arrest. Thirty-eight percent (about 21,000) had between 2 and 5 arrests, 32 percent (about 18,000) had between 6 and 10 arrests, and 26 percent (about 15,000) had 11 or more arrests. Most of the arrests occurred after 1990.
They were arrested for a total of about 700,000 criminal offenses, averaging about 13 offenses per illegal alien. One arrest incident may include multiple offenses, a fact that explains why there are nearly one and half times more offenses than arrests. Almost all of these illegal aliens were arrested for more than 1 offense. Slightly more than half of the 55,322 illegal aliens had between 2 and 10 offenses.
About 45 percent of all offenses were drug or immigration offenses. About 15 percent were property-related offenses such as burglary, larceny-theft, motor vehicle theft, and property damage. About 12 percent were for violent offenses such as murder, robbery, assault, and sex-related crimes.
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Ahem, what? That's this report (http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d05646r.pdf) . Where does it say 1000's of Americans were killed by illegals every year?
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I could give a damn whether they are committing murder or just stealing credit card numbers. WHY are you defending it?
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Originally posted by rpm
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/crimoff.htm
Same one I quoted earlier.
All I got out of this was that, six years ago, 8.4 % of the prison population was hispanic. Could you please save me from embarrassment and point out where it says illegals aren't killing more than 1000 Americans per year?
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Originally posted by rpm
Ahem, what? That's this report (http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d05646r.pdf) . Where does it say 1000's of Americans were killed by illegals every year?
Well, what do you have to say about this?
• In Los Angeles, 95 percent of all outstanding warrants for homicide (which total 1,200 to 1,500) target illegal aliens. Up to two-thirds of all fugitive felony warrants (17,000) are for illegal aliens.
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I am not defending illegal aliens. I am saying your facts are crap, come up with a legitimate point. If you say "throw them out because I don't like the color of their skin", there's no counter to that except for racism and that's your perogative. If you say "enforce the laws because they are the law", I'd have to agree 100%.
If you say "throw them out because they are killing 1000's of Americans", I'd have to say you are full of it and ask for facts to back that up. There's a ton of illegals living in Texas and I have'nt heard about these 1000's of killings they are doing every year.
Steve, it doesn't say that they ARE. Nothing you have come up with says that they are except for some random quote from a guy from Iowa, the capitol of mass murderer illegal aliens. (BTW, that last bit was sarcasm)
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Originally posted by SteveBailey
Well, what do you have to say about this?
How far back do those outstanding warrants go?
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This may help make the issue a little more concrete. I don't know how often illegals commit crimes like homicide, but i hear about it fairly regularly... the actual numbers should be available somewhere.
REQUEST FOR STATEWIDE REBROADCAST
LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS KILLED IN THE LINE OF DUTY-2007
PART 1 OF 1
KENOSHA COUNTY SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT, WISCONSIN,
ADVISED VETERAN DEPUTY SHERIFF, AGED 48, WITH 18 YEARS'
LAW ENFORCEMENT EXPERIENCE, WAS FATALLY SHOT AT ABOUT
11:37 P.M. ON 05/16/2007. DEPUTY ATTEMPTED TO INITIATE
TRAFFIC STOP ON SUSPECTED INTOXICATED MOTORIST. DEPUTY
BEGAN TO PURSUE SUBJECT, WHILE UNIVERSITY OF WISCONSIN -
PARKSIDE POLICE DEPARTMENT (UWPPD) OFFICER WAS
ATTEMPTING TO JOIN PURSUIT AND ACT AS COVER FOR DEPUTY.
AFTER APPROXIMATELY 15 BLOCK LOW-SPEED PURSUIT OF
SUBJECT VEHICLE, WHICH ENDED IN CUL-DE-SAC, DEPUTY
EXITED PATROL VEHICLE AND STARTED TO APPROACH SUBJECT.
(UWPPD OFFICER WAS THEN ATTEMPTING TO OBTAIN ADDRESS OF
TRAFFIC STOP.) EXACT DETAILS OF OCCURRENCE ARE
CURRENTLY UNKNOWN; HOWEVER, IT IS BELIEVED THAT WHILE
DEPUTY WAS APPROACHING SUBJECT VEHICLE, SUBJECT EXITED
AND BEGAN FIRING .380 CALIBER HANDGUN TOWARDS DEPUTY,
FATALLY WOUNDING HIM IN FACE. VICTIM DEPUTY RETURNED
FIRE. AFTER BRIEF GUNFIGHT BETWEEN VICTIM DEPUTY AND
SUBJECT WAS OVER, UWPPD OFFICER FIRED AT FLEEING
SUBJECT. THREE HOURS LATER, SUBJECT WAS ULTIMATELY
ARRESTED SEVERAL BLOCKS AWAY FROM INCIDENT. KENOSHA
COUNTY TACTICAL RESPONSE TEAM LOCATED SUBJECT HIDING
BETWEEN TWO CARS. SUBJECT WAS APPREHENDED WITHOUT
INCIDENT AND WAS FOUND TO BE IN POSSESSION OF WEAPON
USED AGAINST VICTIM DEPUTY. SUBJECT WILL BE CHARGED
WITH FIRST DEGREE INTENTIONAL HOMICIDE. ADDITIONALLY,
SUBJECT IS BEING HELD ON DETAINER FROM U.S. BUREAU OF
IMMIGRATION AND CUSTOMS ENFORCEMENT FOR BEING IN U.S.
ILLEGALLY.
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That guy deserves to be executed. Where's he from?
Gunthr, the actual numbers are in both the reports we have referenced.
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Originally posted by CHECKERS
Folkwufe, ...Have a look at this....
http://www.fred08.com/ (http://www.fred08.com/)
http://www.fred08.com/ (http://www.fred08.com/)
CHECKERS
doesnt seem like a bad guy... i cant vote, but im fine with him or mccain. no obama, clinton, or guliani
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Originally posted by rpm
Steve, it doesn't say that they ARE. Nothing you have come up with says that they are except for some random quote from a guy from Iowa, the capitol of mass murderer illegal aliens. (BTW, that last bit was sarcasm)
Those were warrants issued in 2004.
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Based on a one-year in-depth study, a researcher estimates there are about 240,000 illegal immigrant sex offenders in the United States who have had an average of four victims each.
Schurman-Kauflin concluded that, based on a figure of 12 million illegal immigrants and the fact that more of this population is male than average, sex offenders among illegals make up a higher percentage than offenders in the general population.
This translates to 93 sex offenders and 12 serial sexual offenders coming across U.S. borders illegally per day," she says.
-
Here's an interesting statistic: Illegal immigrants commit federal crimes at 3 times the rate as the rest of the population. RPM, how do you excuse this? Do you still think we should have open borders?
In fiscal year 2002, 33.6% of criminals sentenced in federal district courts under Federal Sentencing Guidelines were non-citizens, and 55% of these non-citizens were illegal aliens. This means that illegal aliens accounted for 17.5% of all crimes prosecuted in federal courts, whereas they are less than 6% of the adult population.
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rpm - i don't know where from, i didn't get into it since it occurred in WI. i ommitted some detail from the teletype, but don't think subject's country of origin was in it anyway. google news may still have something on it.
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While no government agencies specifically track crimes by illegal aliens, there have been some efforts to quantify the loss. Last December, Mac Johnson set out to investigate the number of homicides perpetrated by illegal aliens. Since the federal government would not provide any useful information, he contacted all 50 statehouses. Three months later, he had fewer than a dozen responses. Only one state, Vermont, provided any useful information.He then set out to estimate statistically the number of murders by illegal aliens based on available crime data and conservative estimates of the actual number of illegal aliens in the country – which, of course, no one really knows. He found that between 1,806 and 2,510 people in the U.S. are murdered annually by illegal aliens. If he's right, that would represent between 11 percent and 15 percent of all murders in the U.S.”
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Originally posted by rpm
Ahem, what? That's this report (http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d05646r.pdf) . Where does it say 1000's of Americans were killed by illegals every year?
.... RPM .... "Here, twist, distort, flip & pick this to watermelon too" ....
( I can just hear it now, " Lies!, all Lies ! I tell you. " Pure undocumented BullChit ". ) .... :cry
ROLMAO.......
Illegal aliens murder 12 Americans daily.
World Net Daily ^ | November 28, 2006 | By Joseph Farah
Posted on 11/28/2006 3:07:46 AM PST by Irisshlass
WASHINGTON – While the military "quagmire" in Iraq was said to tip the scales of power in the U.S. midterm elections, most Americans have no idea more of their fellow citizens – men, women and children – were murdered this year by illegal aliens than the combined death toll of U.S. troops in Iraq and Afghanistan since those military campaigns began.
Though no federal statistics are kept on murders or any other crimes committed by illegal aliens, a number of groups have produced estimates based on data collected from prisons, news reports and independent research.
Twelve Americans are murdered every day by illegal aliens, according to statistics released by Rep. Peter King, R-N.Y. If those numbers are correct, it translates to 4,380 Americans murdered annually by illegal aliens. That's 21,900 since Sept. 11, 2001.
Total U.S. troop deaths in Iraq as of last week were reported at 2,863. Total U.S. troop deaths in Afghanistan, Pakistan and Uzbekistan during the five years of the Afghan campaign are currently at 289, according to the Department of Defense.
But the carnage wrought by illegal alien murderers represents only a fraction of the pool of blood spilled by American citizens as a result of an open border and un-enforced immigration laws.
While King reports 12 Americans are murdered daily by illegal aliens, he says 13 are killed by drunk illegal alien drivers – for another annual death toll of 4,745. That's 23,725 since Sept. 11, 2001.
While no one – in or out of government – tracks traffic all U.S. accidents caused by illegal aliens, the statistical and anecdotal evidence suggests many of last year's 42,636 road deaths involved illegal aliens.
A report by the AAA Foundation for Traffic Study found 20 percent of fatal accidents involve at least one driver who lacks a valid license. In California, another study showed that those who have never held a valid license are about five times more likely to be involved in a fatal road accident than licensed drivers.
Statistically, that makes them an even greater danger on the road than drivers whose licenses have been suspended or revoked – and nearly as dangerous as drunk drivers.
King also reports eight American children are victims of sexual abuse by illegal aliens every day – a total of 2,920 annually.
Based on a one-year in-depth study, Deborah Schurman-Kauflin of the Violent Crimes Institute of Atlanta estimates there are about 240,000 illegal immigrant sex offenders in the United States who have had an average of four victims each. She analyzed 1,500 cases from January 1999 through April 2006 that included serial rapes, serial murders, sexual homicides and child molestation committed by illegal immigrants.
As the number of illegal aliens in the U.S. increases, so does the number of American victims.
According to Edwin Rubenstien, president of ESR Research Economic Consultants, in Indianapolis in 1980, federal and state correctional facilities held fewer than 9,000 criminal aliens. But at the end of 2003, approximately 267,000 illegal aliens were incarcerated in all U.S. jails and prisons.
While the federal government doesn't track illegal alien murders, illegal alien rapes or illegal alien drunk driving deaths, it has studied illegal aliens incarcerated in U.S. prisons.
In April 2005, the Government Accountability Office released a report on a study of 55,322 illegal aliens incarcerated in federal, state, and local facilities during 2003. It found the following:
The 55,322 illegal aliens studied represented a total of 459,614 arrests – some eight arrests per illegal alien; Their arrests represented a total of about 700,000 criminal offenses – some 13 offenses per illegal alien; 36 percent had been arrested at least five times before. "While the vast majority of illegal aliens are decent people who work hard and are only trying to make a better life for themselves and their families, (something you or I would probably do if we were in their place), it is also a fact that a disproportionately high percentage of illegal aliens are criminals and sexual predators," states Peter Wagner, author of a new report called "The Dark Side of Illegal Immigration." "That is part of the dark side of illegal immigration and when we allow the 'good' in we get the 'bad' along with them. The question is, how much 'bad' is acceptable and at what price?"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
CHECKERS .....
ps You will never get....
-
Originally posted by CHECKERS
.... RPM .... "Here, twist, distort, flip & pick this to watermelon too" ....
( I can just hear it now, " Lies!, all Lies ! I tell you. " Pure undocumented BullChit ". ) .... :cry
ROLMAO.......
CHECKERS .....
ps You will never get....
Checkers, what you'll never get is it's the "twist, distort, flip & pick" that I am against. Put some solid info on the table, not a strawman.
-
RPM ,
Your response is always the same......
Good thing for your sake, this BBS is not a brown bag full rattle snakes...:rofl
CHECKERS
-
Fortunately, my responses are based on facts, not opinion.
What does any of this have to do with McCain telling Cornyn he's a hole?
-
It seems to me the "media" decided that McCain lost the 2000 nomination because of his "hot headedness" which is why the same "media" reported that Howard Dean lost the nomination for the same reason. I can't identify with the "middle" people who would reject a leader for their passion. Am I really way out on the fringe here?
-
you don't want a leader with "passion" you want a leader with a calm reasoned logical answer to problems.
-
Originally posted by john9001
you don't want a leader with "passion" you want a leader with a calm reasoned logical answer to problems.
Does one necessarily exclude the other?
-
Originally posted by rpm
Just when I think McCain has turned into the lapdog I had feared, he turns around and biotch slaps Texas' lamest Senator dead in his tracks over immigration, F-bomb style.
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/capitol-briefing/
smackdown:aok
Monday, May 21, 2007
The Real John McCain Stands Up
Posted by: Hugh Hewitt at 1:55 PM
As noted below, Mitt Romney is having a great May, and John McCain just made it better, responding to Romney's opposition to the McCain jam down of the draft immigration bill with a personal attack on Romney, just as the Arizona senator did in last week's debate when Romney blasted the McCain-Feingold law:
Well, today, on a conference call with bloggers, Mr. McCain fired back at the former Massachusetts governor, who has (of course) held varying positions on immigration over the years.
"Maybe I should wait a couple weeks and see if it changes," Mr. McCain said of Mr. Romney's position on immigration this week. "Maybe he can get out his small varmint gun and drive those Guatemalans off his yard."
A McCain meltdown was widely expected at some point in the long campaign, but few people expected it so soon.
The rejection of John McCain by the base of the Republican Party was predicted and explained in A Mormon In The White House. Now the key question is whether Senator McCain will stay in the party and support its nominee, a question which hasn't been asked of him (or Tom Tancredo)and which should be, again and again until it gets a straight answer.
UPDATE: The Romney campaign responds:
Another clueless socalist gets hanged by his by the Nutts .... :aok
“Governor Romney has been very clear that he opposes this immigration agreement, which clearly falls short of the American public’s expectations. It seems that certain candidates who brokered this flawed plan are having a very difficult time grappling with or coming to terms with the political fallout that has ensued in a substantive manner.”
-Kevin Madden, spokesman for Governor Romney
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i wont vote for anyone that wont control the invasion of illegals im this country.i dont give a dang if they are the worlds greatest hero.for those of us that have served in the military remember the oath you took.to defend against all enemies foriegn and domestic