Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: OdinGrunherze on May 23, 2007, 02:56:57 PM
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New to the AH world, but enjoying it very much..... Something is missing.... Parachute bombs!!!!! 50lb frags, 250lb, GPs and 500lb GPs, with parachutes attached... Used very effectively during the war..... I love the low level attacks using the Boston/A20, and soon the B25.... But the experience isn't right without the parachute bombs...... Yes, plow the road with your guns, and lay a string of parafrags on the Flak crews.... Then the second wave comes in with 500 pounders.... That would be AWESOME!!!
OG
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Post number one.
I see a trend.
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I've posted about parafrags and some like it, and others just hijack my post. :mad:
I am 100% with parafrags. Just think guys of the low bomber missions with B-25s, A20s, and Bostons with parafrags and bombing below radar, tree top flying, screaming across the cities, and then to your target, blowing it up while flying 100ft off the ground, and someone on the other team saying "What a bunch of dumb noobs.....OH CRAP PARAFRAGS...KA-BOOM!
Just think of all the fun we could have. OOOOOO, and if your flying low and you get a spit or la7 on your six and he is low and closing in, drop a parafrag and watch it blow right below him. "HAHAHAHA! I got this low flying A20! BOOOM! "What was tha.....NOOOOOOO!!!!
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Sorry I don't want to hijack anyones post.... But we could use some napalm in the game too.... That would be an good (and realistic) way to kill those microscopic tanks hiding in the woods..... And skip bombing naval ships would be cool as hell too....
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100% agreement on all these ideas:aok
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HTC has alreadu clarified that no (special) or enourmous bombs will be implemented ever.
so no you cant have a n00k either
srry
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I didn't ask for a nuke, just weapons and technique's that were available, (and used extensively) during the war.....
OG
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The correct term is: High-Drag
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OK, high drag if you like... But those poor grungy odinance guys on the fields around Port Moresby, (who first started using them) called em parafrags. They were an improv field modification, just like the "gun noses" on the light and medium bombers... They were so effective at destroying Japanese airfields around Buna, Wewak, New Britain, etc, that the factories started building them at home...
Those were the early desperate days of the war.... Our guys in the SoPac were on a shoestring, and had to make do with what they had....
They came up with the most devastating form of attack yet invented....
But High drag works too...
OG
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high-drags bombs would kill the fun seeing noobs drop normal bombs at low lvl and kil them self. i like watching that:p .
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Had the B25 with parafrags in WB and I can assure you they were absolutely bloody useless.
However in AH what a fantastic way to confuse airfield and CV AI ack.:rolleyes:
Nintendo kids will drop parafrags 10 + K above and watch the firework display...... AH folk are a gamey bunch of you know whats.
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Well that would be a shame if the damage level wasn't modeled correctly... Because that tactic was devastating to aircraft, facilities, and especially flak crews in their sandbagged emplacments.....
That comes from accounts of japanese war vets... They dreaded the frag clusters..... Little hamburger makers!!!!
Of course, nothing is as fearsome as napalm.....
OG
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Only if we get manned 88mm flaks first. Then you're all welcome to try that low-level frag bombing to your heart's content. We'll be waiting down here with our 88mm flak guns ready.
Otherwise, them puny field ack or 50cal M-16, 37mm Ostard flak, just doesn't cut enough firepower to stop a 3-man buff formation that just ignore ack fire and spray the airfield with bombs before getting shot down by fighters.
So, first give us the 88s. Then you're welcome to have whatever bombs you please, perhaps with the exception of the n00kies.
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Hey man, I agree with ya.... Heavy Flak would be a great addition to the game.... If the guns were modeled correctly you would have a hard time tracking low Alt fast movers with an 88 or a 128... And more than that your gun crews wouldn't be able to fuse the shells quickly enough to be effective. Thats why airfields were surrounded with light and medium flak mounts, firing contact fused shells... While the heavy guns were used around fixed installations, factories, cities, etc...
But they would be great for level bombers that are now flying too high for the light and medium guns....
OG
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You can't train and lay an 88, the same as a 20mm Flakvierling...
Besides the rate of fire on an 88 in AAmode is about 1 round in 5secs. Thats with a PERFECT crew.... you have to remember that the closure rate of an aircraft at 100ft, moving 350+, is extremely fast.... The guy with the rangefinder has to call the range, then the guy has to fuse the shells.... Just this simple fact made heavy flak ineffective against low level attacks....
Of course it depends on how realistically they model the guns....
OG
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You could even fool the enemy by letting them think they're goons :D
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Had the B25 with parafrags in WB and I can assure you they were absolutely bloody useless.
They also have delayed fuses for the larger bombs, not only that but Fighter Ace has the same thing. Aces High is the only flight sim that doesn't have it. As for the 88MM Ack guns, I would like to see them too! Although they would be useless against low flying bombers that were flying 100 Feet off the deck. Although more manned ack on the airfield would be a better idea or better airfield ground defense GV's would work too. As it stands right now, there isn't much ground defense against the high flying bombers unlike the fleets have.
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Just let the '88s use the same fusing system as the 5" guns on the CV's. If buffs can release ordinance 500' off the deck or Lanc's can divebomb from a 60 degree angle at 400kts onto a CV, then I see no reason not to allow something like that... :aok
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5in 45s, and 5in 50s, on naval ships were mounted in power turrets or elec assisted mounts... they also had power ammo feeds.... That gave them a higher rate of fire also....
But the big thing was the Proximity Fuse.... Germans didn't have it!!!!
Big time Hush Hush SECRET.... US Navy had it from late 43 onward... Before that naval AA was almost useless... After that, it was DEADLY.....
I realize that some things have to be "fudged". for the sake of gameplay...
OG
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Originally posted by VooWho
I've posted about parafrags and some like it, and others just hijack my post. :mad:
I am 100% with parafrags. Just think guys of the low bomber missions with B-25s, A20s, and Bostons with parafrags and bombing below radar, tree top flying, screaming across the cities, and then to your target, blowing it up while flying 100ft off the ground, and someone on the other team saying "What a bunch of dumb noobs.....OH CRAP PARAFRAGS...KA-BOOM!
Just think of all the fun we could have. OOOOOO, and if your flying low and you get a spit or la7 on your six and he is low and closing in, drop a parafrag and watch it blow right below him. "HAHAHAHA! I got this low flying A20! BOOOM! "What was tha.....NOOOOOOO!!!!
You don't need them...if you want to hit something low level bring:
Lanstuka with 25% fuel, 14 1000lbs, and carpet bomb it.
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Mr StuKaster. Lancasters and Halifaxes were known to shed their wings while trying to slip away German radar directed spotlights....
So in reality, divebombing with a loaded lancaster would be abject idiocy.
The Lanc should be adjusted to reflect this in the game....
Silly crap like that is worse than a NUKE...
OG
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Originally posted by OdinGrunherze
5in 45s, and 5in 50s, on naval ships were mounted in power turrets or elec assisted mounts... they also had power ammo feeds.... That gave them a higher rate of fire also....
But the big thing was the Proximity Fuse.... Germans didn't have it!!!!
Big time Hush Hush SECRET.... US Navy had it from late 43 onward... Before that naval AA was almost useless... After that, it was DEADLY.....
I realize that some things have to be "fudged". for the sake of gameplay...
Been discussed in other 88mm FlaK36 threads. The thing with the 88's, they were used in large numbers with central fire controls in the AA role -- central fire control they would get the speed, direction, and altitude of an enemy formation through optical, range-finding, and radar inputs, and transmit to the gun positions the necessary data. Quick fuse setting and laying of the gun. Boom. It was pretty accurate, if you've ever seen video and pics of Allied bombers over German territory with a carpet of flak all around them co alt.
For game purposes you can go two ways:
Model the timed fuse and a very good targeting system to give the gunner the altitude, range, and speed of a target (which is much more than we get now), and tie the fuse setting into, say, the throttle setting when in a deployed position.
Or, make use of the existing code for 5 inch guns and autoflak for simplicity. End result is the same. Boom. Just one takes a lot more work to implement.
I'd settle for flak built on the existing 5 inch code to save them the trouble of a whole new sight and target system to code, the end effect is close enough. If your aim is off a bit, your round won't detonate as it would with a timed fuse. oh well.
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Originally posted by VooWho
Just think guys of the low bomber missions
While I am not completely opposed to the idea, the idea of even more Lanc-stukas, B26-stukas, B17-stukas, etc. makes me shudder.
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You are perfectly correct about the german fire direction system....It was as good as it gets, without the proxi fuse....
As far as the game goes... It would be cool to force the player to choose his fuse times for altitude, with a stereoscopic rangefinder.... That would make skill and practice necessary for good accuracy. And slave a Bn of guns to one director.... Perfect!!!
My only real concern is that 88mm machine guns don't start appearing everywhere, LOL!!!
OG
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Sorry the thread drifted off of the main topic... But I was just goin with the flow, ya know!!!
I know there are many people on this BB who know their stuff as well as I do, some even better.... I've studied my share, and have a full library of WW2 literature etc.... It's just a pleasure to yak with people who have the same morbid fetish for WW2 stuff.....
OG
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I'll help put it back on topic.
para......frags.......any.... ...one?
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Originally posted by OdinGrunherze
OK, high drag if you like... But those poor grungy odinance guys on the fields around Port Moresby, (who first started using them) called em parafrags. They were an improv field modification, just like the "gun noses" on the light and medium bombers... They were so effective at destroying Japanese airfields around Buna, Wewak, New Britain, etc, that the factories started building them at home...
Those were the early desperate days of the war.... Our guys in the SoPac were on a shoestring, and had to make do with what they had....
They came up with the most devastating form of attack yet invented....
But High drag works too...
OG
Your giving a history lesson on ordnance to a guy that builds bombs everyday in the military.... No offense is taken or ment to you on that either. But like many have said, no 'special' bombs will be in the game. Which yes sucks to a certain extent, but I understand why.
I do remember the days of them in WB's like Lynx said, and yes they were useless. The only good was for the fireworks.
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Originally posted by VooWho
I'll help put it back on topic.
para......frags.......any.... ...one?
Could you spell it out for me.... I got lost.... :huh
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Why no special ord?
Since when is a incendiary bomb special? They only used 40 bazillion or so.
Whats the defition of special?
Anything none GP?
PS The auto ack wont shoot at bombs. There are ways to stop gaming the game.
Bombers are for the most part ignored other than the fact that they are present and fulfill a need to fighters.
Sad but true facts..........I bet "special" bombs would get used more than half the hangar queens. And it would be terribly easy to coad compared to say a plane.
I have stopped flying buffs because its TOO easy and boring. Id love to low level bomb a city!
CFYA
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Originally posted by OdinGrunherze
My only real concern is that 88mm machine guns don't start appearing everywhere, LOL!!!
Been discussed. FlaK36 could carry a small perk price. They might fire around 15 to 20 rounds per minute.
Figure it would have two modes: travel mode, no shooty shooty, and a delay to firing mode. 5 to 30 seconds. A dug in and sandbagged and camouflaged 88mm AA may be a little more defended than one in travel mode, or a little harder to spot if camo, hence the longer deployment times.
But it would be a weak target once spotted. Easy to kill.
88mm German FlaK36 thread (http://forums.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=198029&highlight=German+88mm)
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Originally posted by CFYA
Why no special ord?
Since when is a incendiary bomb special? They only used 40 bazillion or so.
Whats the defition of special?
Anything none GP?
:rofl So is '40 bazillion' just a rough guess or spot on...
I am not sure all of what HTC's choice of 'special' is, but from what we have in the game, yeah anything not general purpose.
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Special ords really don't have much place in the game as it is now, IMHO.
There was some discussion a while ago about what a AH-3 might be like if it went to broadband only (for much larger throughput of information).
You could model Armies, similar to the Task Groups now. Or visual front lines between contested bases. Troop movements, marshalling yards, ammo dumps, fuel depots, more convoys and trains and barges, supply ships for anti shipping operations, communications centers, more population centers of various sizes, roads, rivers, destructible bridges,.... Lot's of eye candy and tactical and strategic targets for attack planes, JABOS, and bombers.
Some of these could make using more types of munitions playable. Parafrags, perked ord system with Fritz-X or Henschel Hs 293 or tallboys, skip bombing modeled, and so forth.
I just can't see a game that's been around as long as AHII going into big changes like that. I'd expect smaller, incremental changes and enhancements.
If there is ever an AH-3, then possibly.
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Originally posted by Sketch
Could you spell it out for me.
it out for me.
I...T.....O...U...T.....F...O ...R.....M...E.
it out for me.
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Gimme mannable 88s at factories so the milkrunners gets something to think about :aok
Same control system as the 5" on the ships, but a lower rate of fire.
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Originally posted by VooWho
it out for me.
I...T.....O...U...T.....F...O ...R.....M...E.
it out for me.
Thanks!! :D
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Only if we get manned 88mm flaks first. Then you're all welcome to try that low-level frag bombing to your heart's content. We'll be waiting down here with our 88mm flak guns ready.
Otherwise, them puny field ack or 50cal M-16, 37mm Ostard flak, just doesn't cut enough firepower to stop a 3-man buff formation that just ignore ack fire and spray the airfield with bombs before getting shot down by fighters.
So, first give us the 88s. Then you're welcome to have whatever bombs you please, perhaps with the exception of the n00kies.
Kweasa...
thats how you hijack a thread, dismiss someone elses opinion and impliment your own.
I dont care what you say para's and skip bombs would be a fun addition to the game.:aok :aok
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Hopefully, in the future, the AH game will become a more rounded experience... With a more detailed interaction between air and ground...
After playing the "game" a little more, I realize that there isn't much point to special munitions... Simply because there are no Targets to use them on... I imagine that things will improve over time.... Broadband maybe???
I hope so!!!!
Yes, I have had just a little exp in the Military too... LOL, just a little!!!
Velos, Silens, Morte....
OG
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HaHaHa, I spelled Ord(i)nance wrong... I guess that I've been a civvie too long...Ya know, its a shame that HTC can't use some of the other game engines that are out there... There are some excellent systems that simulate, armored combat, naval combat, on and on.... It would be soooo sweet to have the (full boogie) WW2 combat experience...
People would flock to this sim over from all others... Probably have copywrite problems doing it tho.... Mores the pity!!!!
But HTC has the best flight sim that I have seen yet....No doubt!!!!
Hope for the future
OG
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Last night I had a dream that HTC gave us the 88mm and it was bugged and it was pwnding ever plane in the game. It didn't have an arch with the round so you could hit targets very easy at 25k. Then when I watched the plane come down, it was an IAF F-16 with a wing missing and then the textures turned into FS2004 and then I had guys chasing me in Jeeps, and I had an AK-101 and then the textures turned into Ghost Recon 2 and then I had to defend the 88mm in the middle of the map. It was a wierd dream, but I liked it.
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:confused: :huh
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Wow man, that sounds like an old episode of the twilight zone....
I trust that you defended with tremendous skill and tons of class....
And died like an Ocha in full bloom!!!! Right???
Actually, I was thinking of a game called Panzer Front for old playstation. Man, it is the BEST tank sim.... At least as far as the vehicles, weapons, and terrian go..... It would be KILLER if the Skies were filled with AH air power....
OG
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yea and smoke bombs in bombers would help GVs get cover with bunch of smoke to cover the field:furious :eek:
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Now is time to get a spotter plane, with smoke rockets to mark targets for bombers, ground attackers, and gvs. Did they have smoke rockets back in WW2 to mark spots? I know Moss would go ahead of Lanc, fly real low and mark targets with white smoke. (I think) :confused:
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Wow, I thought this thread was dead.......
OG
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The dissadvantage of a Flak88 that would take skill to use is when a base was under attack, a newb would come in, grab the flak88(cuz it is a big gun) and hog it til it gets destroyed(unless it were perked). Still would be a fun and feared gun when used properly.
And Napalm and High Drag/Para-frag(whatever you call them nowadays)
dont seem to be specialized bombs. Specialized bombs are the Grand-Slams Earthquake bombs, V2 guided ballistic missiles, Kamikaze Japanese planes, Atomic bombs(we could get these and destroy a entire arena!).
I think Napalm and High Drag/ Para-frags would be usefull when used properly
and would be a nice addition to the A-20 or B26s inventory!
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Not wanting to beat a dead horse here but since we now have the B-25 I think it would bring them out of the hanger more if we did have the parafrag option. I've tried to organize a few low level/Noe B-25 attacks but they never turn out to be that much fun or effective because you still have to pop to gain enough alt to drop ord. It would a lot of fun to come in on a town low level with 10 Mitchells, see all those chutes out while you turn for your gun runs! :rock
(http://www.homeofheroes.com/wings/part2/10_dagua_parafrags.jpg)
(http://8thattacksqdnassoc.tripod.com/Pics/FragBombDrop.jpg)
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I've posted about parafrags and some like it, and others just hijack my post. :mad:
I am 100% with parafrags. Just think guys of the low bomber missions with B-25s, A20s, and Bostons with parafrags and bombing below radar, tree top flying, screaming across the cities, and then to your target, blowing it up while flying 100ft off the ground, and someone on the other team saying "What a bunch of dumb noobs.....OH CRAP PARAFRAGS...KA-BOOM!
Just think of all the fun we could have. OOOOOO, and if your flying low and you get a spit or la7 on your six and he is low and closing in, drop a parafrag and watch it blow right below him. "HAHAHAHA! I got this low flying A20! BOOOM! "What was tha.....NOOOOOOO!!!!
^^^Ignore the 3 year old child^^^, im in for the parafrags.
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WOW, this thread is over a year old :O
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Now is time to get a spotter plane, with smoke rockets to mark targets for bombers, ground attackers, and gvs. Did they have smoke rockets back in WW2 to mark spots? I know Moss would go ahead of Lanc, fly real low and mark targets with white smoke. (I think) :confused:
actually the dambuster squadron 617 (I think) used mustangs and mossies to fire smoke flares that were shot out like rockets to mark during the day, and flares like the pathfinders used at night.
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WOW, this thread is over a year old :O
then who drug this old heap up
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Only if we get manned 88mm flaks first. Then you're all welcome to try that low-level frag bombing to your heart's content. We'll be waiting down here with our 88mm flak guns ready.
Otherwise, them puny field ack or 50cal M-16, 37mm Ostard flak, just doesn't cut enough firepower to stop a 3-man buff formation that just ignore ack fire and spray the airfield with bombs before getting shot down by fighters.
So, first give us the 88s. Then you're welcome to have whatever bombs you please, perhaps with the exception of the n00kies.
Nah, not the 88, the 88 would have a hard time fusing in time and blah blah blah..
How about the flakveirling (aka flak 30) though?
2cm (20mm) 4 barrel full auto AA gun [:
That would be fun stuff right there.
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Parachute bombs would never work in AH. Parachute bombs were used so that the bombs had time to arm and go off. This was a great idea however AH works differently. In AH bombs go off according to (x) amount of feet travelled not time.
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How about the flakveirling (aka flak 30) though?
2cm (20mm) 4 barrel full auto AA gun [:
That would be fun stuff right there.
=Wirbelwind.
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Parachute bombs would never work in AH. Parachute bombs were used so that the bombs had time to arm and go off. This was a great idea however AH works differently. In AH bombs go off according to (x) amount of feet travelled not time.
I've heard that bombs arm in AH after traveling 1000ft but why couldn't they do this? Would the program be too difficult to write or make work properly? I'm not a programmer but it seems they could make the bombs arm when dropped and model them to float like the troops do. Once they touch ground or building they explode, no timing necessary...
:D sorry, I dug this one up the other day