Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: tommygun on May 25, 2007, 10:40:40 AM
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Last night I came upon a plane on the six of a bogey but not firing or getting in range. He was close though. I had alt and I knew I could get the speed to catch the bogey.
I dove and passed my country's plane and fired and I got hits on the bogey. My fellow countryman came on the radio and said "we are shooting at the same plane" I apologized and bugged out.
Did I do something wrong?
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Yes...ya were gangbanging...:p
Or maybe he said it because there were other enemies in the area and it is not tactically smart to engage the same plane while other enemies are around....
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It's always polite to ask before you engage in an obvious 1 v 1 unless your countryman is obviously in trouble.
Regards,
Hammer
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Originally posted by hammer
It's always polite to ask before you engage in an obvious 1 v 1 unless your countryman is obviously in trouble.
Regards,
Hammer
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Originally posted by tommygun
Thank you. I am addicted and want to get it right.
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Originally posted by tommygun
Thank you. I am addicted and want to get it right.
Actually, you just got a very valuable lesson on the mentality of the AH players. As Hammer said, it is only proper to cherry pick when your country man is in troble. Not when he thinks he will win fight.
In other words, everyone loves a 1 vs 1 when they have the upper hand or think they are winning. 10 seconds later you make get the call on radio to please come in and help lol.
I say, leave the 1 vs 1 alone no matter what the situation.
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Wait around long enough for one of them to kill the other, then engage. ;)
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Knowing when to drop in on a con someone else is working over can be a bit hit or miss.
If I've got altitude and I see a con running out and no one closer than 800 yds and losing ground, I WILL dive in because I'm the only one capable of getting into guns range. Even if I can't get the kill because the target breaks, that may still allow them to close in and finish him off.
If I see a friendly being trailed, I WILL move in if I have position regardless of what the other guy says. Case in point the other night a friendly was making a shallow climb out of a furball, with an N1K coming up under him. The friendly was Check 6ed by another pilot, and he was waved off by the friendly trailing the N1K saying he knew it and was going to reverse. However, as I was already in a position to drop and circle in behind the con I did so. Before I was in guns range the target broke and the friendly he was pursuing came around over the top. I held back to give him the shot, but continued to follow the N1K. The reversing friendly was shooting from relatively high-deflection and missed. The friendly repeated he had the con, however I already had a guns solution (full plane, right on his wingroot) so took my shot and advised him I was doing so and took out the Nikki. As I said above, no negative words were exchanged, but even though the friendly "claimed" while still alting out I had the better position throughout, so took my shot when the friendly missed his. Probably the better strategy would have been for him to simply rope the other con as I could have more quickly shot him off.
If another friendly is working over a con but I've got the better angle, I'll take the shot. I try to let him know I am, but sometimes that slips through. Usually, if you've got the better shot at a target the other guy will let you take it if you let him know. Sometimes, though, you only have a narrow opening so have to take it when it comes up. I still try to let the guy know why I took the kill afterwards (usually an honest "Sorry for the steal, but he gave me too good of an angle" is sufficient. Most guys will understand).
What I try to avoid is conga line of guys all trying to jump out in front of each other to get the shot first, or spraying wildly to put more bullets in first.
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I did watch from overhead and the friendly was not closing. He was closer than 800.
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Tommy,
Usually in that situation it is best to let the friendly know that you can force the con to break and that you are coming through so as to avoid the possibility of a killshooter. Once the con breaks it is usually over quickly as one of you will finish them without much of a problem.
Typically, when I see a friendly engaged with a con I ask if they are alright over range and stay above the fight in case your countryman gets spanked, then you can swoop in on a low and slow con to get an easy kill.
However, I do advise this, if you have an opportunity for a kill when you see the horde coming take the shot and end it quickly. The longer you spend tangling with one bogie the more likely you are to be jumped by it's friends.
Best of Luck
<>
Spazz
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After months of playing AH, I'm finally getting the hang of remembering that I have range radio.
Nothing sucks worse than giving up 5 minutes of alt in 15 seconds to help someone who doesn't need it to begin with and is p***ed at you for jumping in. And it' can be difficult to tell in a one v one who's actually winning - especially in the mind of your countryman who may or may not want your "help".
Now that I'm getting better at AH, I usually ask on range if the guy needs help before jumping in.
Save me the alt, and him the aggravation. And if he's wrong, then I determine whether to kill the bandit or not based upon the threat level.
In a furball though, every red icon is fair game.
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Originally posted by tommygun
I apologized and bugged out.
Did I do something wrong?
Yes, you apologized.
No more of that touchy feely stuff please.
:D
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If you ever see me engaged with an enemy and you have the ability to kill him faster...KILL HIM!
It's far more important to save time than being worried about who's going to get the kill.
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Kill Stealing is an art form! There is nothing better than listening to the whines after you steal someones kill after they took too long killing it... :t
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Originally posted by Saxman
. . . . . . . . .
And the lesons continue. As you can see, we don't care about the fight at all. What we care about is pressing thriger, going pew pew pew pew pew in our heads, and waiting for the boom. We do however do that while pretending we are real pilits talking on a real radio and using the excuse of tactics, better position, stratigery etc.
Leson on how a guy dives in an HOes the plane you are shooting from D200 should be coming soon :D
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Tommy, it is best to ask first. If I see a one on one going on I'll ask first and if they say they are ok I will hang around at a safe distance and tell the friendly if he needs help let me know. There is nothing more frustrating then working a con over and some tard (not to imply you are one) :D comes in and picks him off. The MA has way too many of these types of people. I commend you for asking about this situation though because it appears that you are trying to play with some dignity. People that say "if it's red, i shoot it" are the ones that are ruining this game. These are the people that should just go play solitaire or something.
However if you are in a "furball" area and there are mass cons around don't feel the need to ask. Anything goes in that situation IMO.
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do we have to know the full extent of the adventures occuring in your nose?
;)
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If you've got the alt advantage, stay up there, call over on VOX to ask if he needs help or wants you to make a pass to make the bad guy break.... and if not, keep an eye out for the next enemy con coming for a pick.
If co-alt, again ask if he needs help.
If in a populated, but less than crowded furball sky, wing up. Ask if he needs help. Cover his six against the next enemy if you are not too worried about your own score, or move on to other enemies if you are more into the solo thing.
Personally, I don't have much problem if someone can get into a position to take a shot on one I'm following, especially if defending or attacking a field.
For my part, I'll take a pilot's wing to watch his six vs another enemy when he is busy engaged with one. I won't take the shot unless he shakes the friendly and does a lovely spread eagle silhouette 100 off my nose. If there are two or more in a pursuit conga line, I'll break off and look for other prey unless I'm the lead and real close to a firing position.
In the end, listen to your own conscience. I don't need name in lights or a low score to have fun in a game. I also don't need to get worked up over some of the antics some pilots display in the game. I don't find enjoyment in trying to game the game or stealing kills from others. I don't get off in taunting over PM or Ch200.
To each his own. It's an online game. You'll see all sorts.
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Originally posted by tommygun
Last night I came upon a plane on the six of a bogey but not firing or getting in range. He was close though. I had alt and I knew I could get the speed to catch the bogey.
I dove and passed my country's plane and fired and I got hits on the bogey. My fellow countryman came on the radio and said "we are shooting at the same plane" I apologized and bugged out.
Did I do something wrong?
ACM etiquette....hmm is there such a thing in AHII??
I am one that usually likes to close within 400 before I kill them, I have had someone cut right in front of me right when I shoot, and my wing flies off or engine stutters out, and it was someone who was in the top 10 in rank. So I crash and don't say anything, I have seen 12 allies on one con....people shooting at burning cons to steal kills...but it is only a game and just roll with the punches. Just seems to be part of the game.
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If you have a kill, take it and enjoy it. (I do not mean already disabled planes which are floating down)
There is a separate arena for 1vs1 duels ;)
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Originally posted by hammer
It's always polite to ask before you engage in an obvious 1 v 1 unless your countryman is obviously in trouble.
Regards,
Hammer
Yup!:aok
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As a BK, kill stealing is embraced.
It is a cherished past time.
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The only rule is that whatever you do or dont do, someone will whine for what you did or didnt do.
So do what gives you the best return on your monthly 15$ bill. :)
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Originally posted by tedrbr
If you've got the alt advantage, stay up there, call over on VOX to ask if he needs help or wants you to make a pass to make the bad guy break.... and if not, keep an eye out for the next enemy con coming for a pick.
If co-alt, again ask if he needs help.
If in a populated, but less than crowded furball sky, wing up. Ask if he needs help. Cover his six against the next enemy if you are not too worried about your own score, or move on to other enemies if you are more into the solo thing.
Personally, I don't have much problem if someone can get into a position to take a shot on one I'm following, especially if defending or attacking a field.
For my part, I'll take a pilot's wing to watch his six vs another enemy when he is busy engaged with one. I won't take the shot unless he shakes the friendly and does a lovely spread eagle silhouette 100 off my nose. If there are two or more in a pursuit conga line, I'll break off and look for other prey unless I'm the lead and real close to a firing position.
In the end, listen to your own conscience. I don't need name in lights or a low score to have fun in a game. I also don't need to get worked up over some of the antics some pilots display in the game. I don't find enjoyment in trying to game the game or stealing kills from others. I don't get off in taunting over PM or Ch200.
To each his own. It's an online game. You'll see all sorts.
^
pretty much summed up my opinion tommy. As you can see they are wide and varied.
You have to find your own style and what you are comfortable with.
Good luck
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You have to ask yourself if its right or wrong. regardless of what replies you get here your gonna do what you believe is right.
But just think if you were twisting and turning with a con 1 on 1, fighting for the angle and you finally get him laid out and lined up and someone comes in screaming over your shoulder, guns blazing.....
How would you feel and what would you say?
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personally, if you've got the time to ask, do so....if not, kill the bugger and then both of you can move off to the next target.
How many times have I been in a great 1 vs. 1 then all of a sudden get a "Host:you have been killed"
Just do it.
I guess I owe a couple of buck to Nike for copyright now, eh?
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Originally posted by stickpig
You have to ask yourself if its right or wrong. regardless of what replies you get here your gonna do what you believe is right.
But just think if you were twisting and turning with a con 1 on 1, fighting for the angle and you finally get him laid out and lined up and someone comes in screaming over your shoulder, guns blazing.....
How would you feel and what would you say?
I'd say,
"If kill-stealing is wrong... I don't wanna be right!
Dam, I enjoyed stealing that kill from you more than most, Stick! What a rush. Let's do it again sometime." :D
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Originally posted by dedalos
Actually, you just got a very valuable lesson on the mentality of the AH players. As Hammer said, it is only proper to cherry pick when your country man is in troble. Not when he thinks he will win fight.
In other words, everyone loves a 1 vs 1 when they have the upper hand or think they are winning. 10 seconds later you make get the call on radio to please come in and help lol.
I say, leave the 1 vs 1 alone no matter what the situation.
unless you are fairly certain that one of the participants is dedalot. if in fact you can determine that one of the participants is dedalot then jump and kill it or jump and steal the kill.
what I typed now begs the question how can I be sure that it is indeed dedalot?
if he's on your side his icon will be tagged dedalot if he is on the other side zoom in on the cockpit you will see it eating bougatsa and there will be a long streamer of toilet paper flapping from under the hood and in the slipstream. you know you have your tard, jump in and kill it.
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Parting thoughts.
If so inclined, you can always dive in, make the bad guy break, and just not shoot your guns. Then when he does break zoom back up high & give the other guy a chance to finish him. After all chances are he fought that enemy from 8k down to the deck, he's invested time, energy, ammo into seeing that bird die to his guns. He's "earned" the right to finish his all too rare one on one.
If after a couple of minutes the are still flopping around down there by all means go put someone out of their misery.
But for myself 9 out of 10 times if I go into a 1 0n 1 I never fire my guns. Ask the other guy if he needs help. Wait, see if the fight turns against him. If it looks like its about to, slash through and give the bad guy someone new to worry about.
Save your guns for if your countrymate loses.
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Originally posted by Sloehand
I'd say,
"If kill-stealing is wrong... I don't wanna be right!
Dam, I enjoyed stealing that kill from you more than most, Stick! What a rush. Let's do it again sometime." :D
Thats why I enjoy winging up with you Sloehand...
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I'll kill anything if it's close to me. Having a 'great' 1v1? Tough chit, unless I know you or you specifically say to stay out (even then I'll probably ignore ya), I'm gonna take the kill :t I won't bother if the guy's leaking stuff or I've seen him get pinged up, as I have no use for assists, but whatever. My advice is just don't pile onto people 100% of the time... if there's another kill to be had and noone's on the guy, take that first, THEN steal someone else's :aok
And wtf does this have to do with ACM?
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Early on I fell prey to the mentality that once you put a round into an enemy, he was "yours". After a couple of instances when I wound up taking hits from the claimed target I started to think more selfeshly.
I will tend to avoid conga lines as they are likely to cause killshots with all the traffic. when I come across a 1 v 1, I try to get a handle on whether the friendly is ok or struggling. Many times there is no reply to my query, it does get busy.
My tactic is to fly as a sort of "big brother" if there's a need, I engage.
I have lost count of the augers caused by my trying to avoid cutting someone off but even that diminishes with time.
All that said, I still get the occasional shot from a friendly that I did something innappropriate. I never apologise.
As far as having kills stolen, if it happens twice, I do whatever I can to insure that pilot gets nothing but assists till he changes sides.
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Wow...reading some of these replies really helps clarify why this game is going in the crapper.
This "I shoot it if it's red" attitude is why this has turned into more a arcade game than a flight sim.:(
Sad:(
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Originally posted by wetrat
My advice is just don't pile onto people 100% of the time... if there's another kill to be had and noone's on the guy, take that first:aok
I agree with the above quote!
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Originally posted by tommygun
Last night I came upon a plane on the six of a bogey but not firing or getting in range. He was close though. I had alt and I knew I could get the speed to catch the bogey.
I dove and passed my country's plane and fired and I got hits on the bogey. My fellow countryman came on the radio and said "we are shooting at the same plane" I apologized and bugged out.
Did I do something wrong?
No.
Do not obey silly rules made up by others.
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Originally posted by tommygun
I did watch from overhead and the friendly was not closing. He was closer than 800.
I'm not sure how you could judge that the friendly wasn't closing. Close rates can be very slow at times. Sometimes you might have to chase for a sector to close 2-400 yards for the kill (I dragged a P-51 just a few nights ago for a sector and a half to get that amount of closure).
It's very frustrating to go around with a guy, get him on the run, be closing with nothing he can do and have someone else come along and take advantage of all the hard work you put in to get to that point.
If it's a multi-plane engagement then don't worry about it. Kill as many as quickly as you can. If it's a true one on one then asking if he wants help or waiting to see how the situation plays out isn't that hard.
BTW, what you did wasn't a kill-steal. Had you waited until the friendly took off the bogies wing then dove in and peppered the falling con for the kill would have been a kill-steal.
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I'll more often than not, ask if someone needs help. As for someone wanting me to "move out of their way so they can shoot over my shoulder", to hell with them.
There are times, at which point I lose enough E to stay with a con. I'll break off and let them have at it.
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Originally posted by storch
if he's on your side his icon will be tagged dedalot
Wow, and I thought you were stupid lol.
if he is on the other side zoom in on the cockpit you will see it eating bougatsa and there will be a long streamer of toilet paper flapping from under the hood and in the slipstream. you know you have your tard, jump in and kill it.
:rofl :rofl :rofl Man, I have not had one of those in like 7 years.
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good stuff huh? no good greek pastry shops in chicago?
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Originally posted by storch
good stuff huh? no good greek pastry shops in chicago?
Yeah, I just never thought of those things till you mentioned them