Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Ripsnort on May 25, 2007, 08:26:20 PM
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This story got me thinking...should Students who come to America from the Middle East (S.A., Jordan, etc. etc.) have background checks before student visas are issued?
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/localnews/stories/052507dntexterrorcharges.271768e.html
UTD student convicted of having weapon
FBI says he wanted to join jihad, but he says he was just having fun
08:46 PM CDT on Thursday, May 24, 2007
By JASON TRAHAN / The Dallas Morning News
A University of Texas at Dallas sophomore who prosecutors said longed to join the fight against U.S. forces in the Middle East was convicted by a Houston jury on federal weapons charges Thursday.
Syed Maaz Shah, 20, a Pakistan native majoring in electrical engineering, was convicted of firing an Armalite M-15 assault weapon on two camping trips in January and March in a rural area near Willis, north of Houston.
The FBI says Mr. Shah and other men on the trips were engaged in military training with the ultimate goal to join the jihad, or holy war, against the U.S. overseas.
During his trial this week, Mr. Shah said he was going on fishing trips and didn't know guns would be involved.
"I was invited by my friends to go camping and have a good time, and that's what we had," said Mr. Shah in a letter to the UTD Mercury student newspaper that was published in February. "Isn't it mind-boggling that someone can be placed in prison for merely going to a shooting range? ... I mean, for God's sake, we live in Texas ..."
After a three-day trial in front of U.S. District Judge Melinda Harmon in Houston, Mr. Shah was convicted on two counts of alien in possession of a firearm affecting interstate commerce.
Mr. Shah entered the U.S. in 2005 on a student visa and as such was prohibited from possessing a firearm, authorities said. He faces up to 20 years in prison. He will be sentenced Sept. 14.
In late November, he was arrested outside his UTD campus apartment and was transferred to Houston to join three co-defendants who authorities say joined him on the training campouts.
Prosecutors said that when Mr. Shaw was arrested, he told agents he went on the campouts to prepare for "what may come" and described American forces in Iraq as "invaders." During his trial, Mr. Shah denied making those statements.
Extremist materials were found on Mr. Shah's computer, seized by agents in Dallas, prosecutors said. "Statue of Liberty in Burka" reads the name of one file from his computer, according to a government trial exhibit list.
Shiraz Syed Qazi, 26, also in the U.S. on a student visa, was sentenced last week to 10 months in prison for unlawful possession of a firearm during the campouts.
Adnan Babar Mirza, a 29-year-old Pakistani native, is scheduled for trial in October on federal conspiracy and firearms charges.
A third co-defendant, Kobie Diallo Williams, a 33-year-old U.S. citizen, will be sentenced in October after his November 2006 guilty plea to conspiracy charges related to raising money for the Taliban and gun charges.
The Associated Press contributed to this report.
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Yep. :noid
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
This story got me thinking...should Students who come to America from the Middle East (S.A., Jordan, etc. etc.) have background checks before student visas are issued?
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/localnews/stories/052507dntexterrorcharges.271768e.html
I believe anyone, especially students, coming from a hostile region or country should have to pass a background check and be sponsored by an American citizen before being allowed to enter the USA for what ever reason.
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All non citizens entering the US should have a background check. But since the reps have been telling us they are protecting us how come this hasnt been done already?
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Check 'em all Rip.
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Originally posted by Silat
All non citizens entering the US should have a background check. But since the reps have been telling us they are protecting us how come this hasnt been done already?
There was a HUGE row over just getting fingerprints from everyone as they landed (ACLU-type row, in addition to some very mad Brits) The airlines are bawking at doing more, and the federal govt' certainly isn't up to the task. It would make flying to the US a nightmare of red tape upon landing, which wouldn't bother me too much. They prolly just fly to Canada or Guatemala/Mexico and drive across. Saw a story the other day about a HIGH number of 'transit' visas given out by the Cuban consulate, in Damascus--those folks are coming from Afghanistan, Pakistan, etc...and their final destination is NOT Cuba. This just presents them an easy way of getting to either Mexico or Canada, from which it's easy to get to the US. I half-expect to see an army of several thousand 'other-than-Mexicans' shoot up dozens of shopping malls or schools at some point in the future. These folks do NOT mind waiting for the perfect time to strike
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Any law we may pass regarding aliens/immigrants is ludicrous considering we probably have 20 million undocumented illegal aliens within our borders today.
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Thankfully it doesnt take an eternety to get a tourist visa to enter america as a norwegian. As long as you does not have a heavy criminal record you get it within a few days after asking the US embassy.
They look at your name (to see if its a typical norwegian one) and ask what your business is and thats it.
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SHould they? You mean they arent checked now?
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Sorta reminds me of a couple years ago, during a drill weekend at the reserve center, I was walking down the admin passageway and saw the typical bulletin board they have up for miscellaneous news. On it was a wanted poster for a fellow sailor. As such I'd never seen one for a navy sailor. So I looked closer and it was for a fellow storekeeper who was atteneding SK 'A' school in Meridian, Mississippi. Turns out he was a person of middle eastern origin, in the military on his green card, and that NCIS was investigating him for "terrorist linked activities".
Wow, a middle eastern person wanted for that. In the navy.
Gotta love stereotypes.
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Am I the only person here who has read the news article?
You guys do realize that this story has NOTHING to do with background checks for students, right?
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Originally posted by Silat
All non citizens entering the US should have a background check. But since the reps have been telling us they are protecting us how come this hasnt been done already?
ACLU, CAIR
Just a few acronyms I can think of off the top of my head.
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If you do background checks for foreigners entering the country, teh turrerists have already won teh war! :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Nilsen
Thankfully it doesnt take an eternety to get a tourist visa to enter america as a norwegian. As long as you does not have a heavy criminal record you get it within a few days after asking the US embassy.
They look at your name (to see if its a typical norwegian one) and ask what your business is and thats it.
You need to apply for a visa from the embassy to travel the USA as a tourist? I simply ordered plane tickets, jumped on the plane and filled up a green paper slide asking for silly questions while enjoying the sights. Any "yes" answers would've triggered the "visit the embassy" failure.
(YES! I participated in the holocaust!)
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I recently got a visa to the US to go to a conference.
The application form (DS157) was hillarious:
Do You Have Any Specialized Skills or Training, Including Firearms,
Explosives?
Have You Ever Performed Military Service? Give country, service, ranks...
Have You Ever Been in An Armed Conflict?
hmm....
List all educational institutions you have attended...
...physics...
After that form I was sure I'd be classified as former war criminal military officer scientist that comes to steal the US nuclear secrets...
Luckily someone at the US embassy applied some common sense and gave me a 10 year visa. My wife on the other hand, is clearly 10 times more dangerous then me since she got a visa for just 1 year.
Go figure.
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What do you think? FBI background checks for middle east students?
Cant we just shoot them on sight instead?
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Yeah, the application form DS-157 is pretty funny to read. I deal with diplomatic security on a daily basis, and the majority of them are pretty much a joke too.
Now if you want a laugh, try getting your employee badge renewed. You start from square one again... and this after 27 years of working for them. :rofl Can't just go in with the soon to expire badge you have had for umpteen years, like pre-9-11 dayze anymore.
Oh the stories I could tell if you folks were cleared for them.
:O :rofl
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Check em........then eject them.
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Did you guys even bother to read the news article?
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
Did you guys even bother to read the news article?
I did.
Syed Maaz Shah, 20, a Pakistan native majoring in electrical engineering, was convicted of firing an Armalite M-15 assault weapon on two camping trips in January and March in a rural area near Willis, north of Houston.
After a three-day trial in front of U.S. District Judge Melinda Harmon in Houston, Mr. Shah was convicted on two counts of alien (which means he's here on a student visa) in possession of a firearm affecting interstate commerce.
Shiraz Syed Qazi, 26, also in the U.S. on a student visa, was sentenced last week to 10 months in prison for unlawful possession of a firearm during the campouts.
Adnan Babar Mirza, a 29-year-old Pakistani native, is scheduled for trial in October on federal conspiracy and firearms charges.
A third co-defendant, Kobie Diallo Williams, a 33-year-old U.S. citizen, will be sentenced in October after his November 2006 guilty plea to conspiracy charges related to raising money for the Taliban and gun charges.
I agree, background checks SHOULD BE used, and if they are now, be even more thorough.
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There shouldn't be the need for a background check.If the USA would get it in their minds that any foreign student coming from a muslim country is a possible terror threat.therefore simply keep them out of the country.That being said,the USA will continue to allow terrorist into our country,and one day they will spring a attack that will make 911 look small!
ID
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A background check will never touch someone who wants to come into this country to do us harm. Why would a real terrorist submit to one when all he need do to go anywhere in this country is sneak over our border with Mexico like many thousands of people do every year?
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Most (Western) Europeans can enter the US on the Visa Waiver program. That gives you 90 days. Any longer and you need a visa.
If you have any criminal record (e.g. a DUI, caution for possession of pot etc) you become ineligible for the visa waiver program and should apply for a visa and your local embassy. That's regardless of whether the offence has expired and been purged from your record at home. In theory, the US has access to the UK (and presumably other counties') criminal records to check this, but as most UK police forces can't put together a complete criminal history of a given person, the US authorities have no chance. In most cases, it is unlikely the checks ever take place and I know several people with minor offenses enter under the visa-waiver program without a problem.
The US VISIT stuff (finger printing and photographing) at the airports isn't that big a deal - most airports are pretty slick at the process and it really doesn't bother me. I have to admit it did piss me off to start with though, but hey - it your country, your rules.
And the end of the day though, as we all know - official legislation makes he-haw difference to the US's ability to keep out undesirables of any nature. I'm still here and my wife tells me I'm undesirable all the time...
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
This story got me thinking...should Students who come to America from the Middle East (S.A., Jordan, etc. etc.) have background checks before student visas are issued?
Replying to the Thread, rather than commenting on the article, the process for doing background checks by the Government is currently overwhelmed already in trying to get Security Clearances for Government and Defense Contract Employees as it is. Now you want to toss in background checks for students along with that?
From what the GAO put out earlier this month:
GAO: Yearlong wait for security clearances
By UPI
Monday, May 21, 2007, 08:13
"Year-long delays for issuing security clearances to U.S. contractors may boost security risks.
A report published Thursday by the U.S. Government Accountability Office found that government contractors eligible for top security clearances had to wait an average of a year to start their work, and this delay has potential repercussions.
"An inexperienced investigative workforce, not fully using technology, and other causes underlie these delays. Delays may increase costs for contracts and risks to national security," states the report, a copy of which was provided to United Press International by the Federation of American Scientists.
With private contractors responsible for an ever-increasing portion of tasks through government agencies, investigations into the arrangements made with these individuals and private companies appear to be on the rise, often revealing security gaps.
GAO's analysis of 2,259 cases showed the process took an average of 446 days for initial clearances and 545 days for clearance updates. The government states that the application-submission phase should take 14 days or less, but the GAO found it took an average of 111 days.
The GAO found that statistics from the offices of the Department of Defense responsible for processing security clearance applications did not provide an accurate impression of the efficiency of the process.
On numerous occasions, the Pentagon granted top security clearances even in cases with unresolved concerns about the individual, the GAO said.
"In its review of 50 investigative reports for initial clearances, GAO found that almost all (47 of 50) cases were missing documentation required by federal investigative standards," the report states."
As things stand, it is not a practical thing to do, despite all the moral, legal, and ethical issues associated with it: it is not practical.
There has been a problem with clearances for going on six years now. No solution so far.