Aces High Bulletin Board
Special Events Forums => Friday Squad Operations => Topic started by: FiLtH on May 27, 2007, 11:47:10 AM
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I was looking back through the logs to see how the distribution of rides have been over the past 18 frames. I wanted to see if squads are getting their share of the gravy as well as the bomber details.
Nothing personel here against the following squads, but a note to future CiCs that when it comes time to assigning rides, keep in mind the following are due some bombing runs.
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348th - The past 14 frames over the span of 6 FSOs has been in a fighter
every frame.
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880 Sqd- Has been in a fighter 17 frames in a row. The last bomber duty was in November of 2006.
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65th FG - Has been in a fighter for the past 16 frames in a row
as a fighter. Last bomber duty 17 frames ago.
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56th FG- Has been in a fighter 15 frames in a row, last bomber duty 16
frames ago.
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UNFORGIVEN- Over the past 18 frames it has been a fighter, with one mixed frame of fighters and bombers in between.
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C-Hawks- Over the past 17 frames it has been a fighter with 2 mixed frames of fighter and bombers.
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CiCs please take the time before assigning rides to see what squads under your command flew the previous frame, to break up the bomber duty.
Also, just because a squad is large, please dont automatically dump them into bombers each time.
Again, no offense to the squads listed, I just want us all to have to pull bomber duty a little more often than what has happened in the past 1/2 year.
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What is the standard on assigning sides during the FSO? I understand that you may or not get the side you request due to the number of request and number of people involved. But would those that received their side of request last FSO fall behind those that did not receive their requested side last time during the next FSO assignment?
This will be the third FSO in a row that we did not receive the side of request. Which would be fine (and not a gripe), but just want to be sure that requests are fairly distributed.
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Originally posted by AKKaz
What is the standard on assigning sides during the FSO? I understand that you may or not get the side you request due to the number of request and number of people involved. But would those that received their side of request last FSO fall behind those that did not receive their requested side last time during the next FSO assignment?
This will be the third FSO in a row that we did not receive the side of request. Which would be fine (and not a gripe), but just want to be sure that requests are fairly distributed.
The woefully simple answer is Admin CM Error, Kazz. And I've made plenty for this run, for sure!
Since I haven't sent out the objectives for frame 1, I have moved you to Axis as you requested. I just flat missed that in the request page.
This will move The Bad Guys back to Allied, but it gets the Axis back closer to 40%. Seems to be the right thing to do. Sorry for the confusion.
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Not disputing the figures. Did a search once as CiC when we had problems getting good turnouts for German rides. Not hard to do. Wasn't going to waste the premium rides to those that duck duty.
Fortunatly enough squads have a health respect for Axis rides that it doesn't seem to be so much of an issue these days(knocks on wood).
But it does SEEMS like I was a sitting duck in a TBM not long ago. I guess shear terror sticks with you longer than my usual fly and try while everyone else gets a kill. LOL
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Thanks for doing that Drone. Squads should never have their "unrequested" side 3 times in a row.
Interesting post Filth. :aok In the past when I have been a Frame C.O. I tended to try to give the guys/squads what they wanted. Those that did not respond or did not care I always put in the bombers or fighter bombers. That would make my style of command part of the problem. If what we see above is a problem.
Part of the numbers you posted could be due to the fact that those squads are up and on top of what they want. For example if a Frame C.O. e-mails his squads maybe those guys above are johnny on the spot requesting the fighters. Anyway, just a thought.
Did you come across any squads that were in bombers most or all of the time in the past 15 or so frames?
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Neg..I started with Pinsalamanders, and saw how many squads were in fighters for frame 3. Then went backward, eliminately squads that pulled a few buff details. I'll go take a peek now.
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if nobody is griping then I don't see a problem, alot of the small squads don't get assigned buffs due to there numbers.
and who let the friggin mongrels in, there goes the neighborhood
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:D
See ya Friday Doobs. :)
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not if I see you first and you sondog too, muhahahahahahaha
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For the record, Clowns are always happy to pull Bomber duty.
Don't take this as license to bury us in bomber missions, we like fighters too... Point being, we don't feel especially strongly about either mission type. We like either one just fine.
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Doobs I guess Im griping. More squads need to do more bombing than they are doing. As it is now many have come to FSOs each frame pretty much knowing they are gonna get a fighter ride, not a squad split 1/2 fighter, 1/2 bomber, but pure fighter. The rest of us regularly get split 1/2 and 1/2, or we end up in something like B5Ns. What Im asking for is a little more involvement by those squads in the bombing end from time to time like the rest of us.
As far as no one griping, many squads are quite happy and have nothing to gripe about. They are fighters most of the time. Which amounts to about 1/4 of the FSO squads over the past 16-18 weeks. That means the remaining 3/4 have been rotating the duty.
When I was CiC about a year ago I saw the trend of small 1-4, 4-8 person squads rarely if ever in bombers. It seemed the way around getting tagged for it. So what I did was take all these small squads and put them in as my bomber force. I wasnt surprised to see on frameday that 3/4s of the guys of those squads who regularly attend when in fighters, were absent for that frame they were selected to fly bombers.
When something irks me enough, I'll make a hobby out of it.
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Originally posted by FiLtH
When I was CiC about a year ago I saw the trend of small 1-4, 4-8 person squads rarely if ever in bombers. It seemed the way around getting tagged for it. So what I did was take all these small squads and put them in as my bomber force. I wasnt surprised to see on frameday that 3/4s of the guys of those squads who regularly attend when in fighters, were absent for that frame they were selected to fly bombers.
When something irks me enough, I'll make a hobby out of it.
I don't recall 880 Sqn ever shirking bombing duty. If we don't request it, that's our buisiness. If you do, that's your business. If we're assigned it, we'll fly it, no complaints, but we are going to request the rides we want.
We don't fly them in the MA, so we don't volunteer for them in the SEA, one reason is we're not profeceint in them, the other, it's just not where our intrest lie.
Our squadron size has never been used as an excuse, or a tool to get out of bombing. The thought of dodging flying buffs never enters our minds.
Since you are the self appointed ride police maybe you should do a little more research into why people are not assigned buffs. Get with the CM's who make side assignments, ask squadrons if they would take buff duty for setups, instead of just throwing squadron names out on the BBS.
I don't know who the guys were that didn't show when you were CIC, or why they didn't show, but your lack of discretion in throwing out names and accusations makes me hope your not a CIC in the future. Thanks for bringing MA type whines and hand wringing to what has been the best part of AHII for me. :mad:
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Shifty
FiLtH never accused anyone. He simply pointed out that some squads have done alot of fighter runs. He wasn't blaming the squads, in fact, he says that in the first post. It was meant as a suggestion for future CiC's.
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Well...
Filth, so much of the assignment does ride with the CIC, that its practically impossible to control anyhow, short of forcing the CM's to do that part too, which I think would be a tragic decision.
I know that when I CIC, I look back at the last 2 or 3 frames, I make notes about who has been in what... Then, I write down all of their requests...
Once I have that done, I find the squads that have not had their request recently and I give them priority for their requested ride. After that is done, I assign the rest and if anyone is not going to get their request then I make sure that it is a squad that had their request last week, and if they have had their request a lot lately, then I am definitely going to bust the streak.
The last thing I do is assign squads that don't have a preference.
Last time I was CIC I bumped into a squad (don't recall who) who I guess almost always gets fighters, they got dropped into bombers for the one frame and actually emailed me about it. It kinda ticked me off frankly, a squad that hasn't been in a bomber in like 10 frames complaining that they got assigned bombers... They did fly them though, they showed up with good numbers, so in the end it was no hard feelings. But honestly, that worried me a little. Everyone needs to tow the line.
CiC's should take time to make the assignments fair. Too often we see the CIC squad in the hot ride for the frame, that bugs me too. Being CiC is not supposed to be a way to guarantee your own squad's requests. I confused the guys in my squad last time when I had 12 262's available and assigned none to the Clowns. I had to explain to my guys that no one in the squad had much experience with that tricky bird, and I felt they would be best utilized by others... Turned out it was a good call, the squads that did get them made very excellent use of them and every single one that launched came home in one piece.
But, at the end of the day, the CiC makes the call. If you can't count on the CiC to take time to design a good plan, and take time to do the homework for the ride assignments, then the event will always suffer a little.
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Originally posted by Target2
Shifty
FiLtH never accused anyone. He simply pointed out that some squads have done alot of fighter runs. He wasn't blaming the squads, in fact, he says that in the first post. It was meant as a suggestion for future CiC's.
Sorry Target, his second post is nothing but an accusation. He just stuck his toe in the water the first post to check the temperature.
Like Doobs said if nobody is complaining why post this stuff at all? If there is a problem just PM the Squadron CO's for their assistance. He could have shown more class going that route, and probably gotten squads to volunteer for buff duty.
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348th doesn't ever request bombers because we don't want to fly them. If assigned, we'll fly 'em. I guess CIC's have just been giving us what we request.
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Shifty Im sorry if I upset you. On a wim I decided to look back at what our squad had done in the past frames. After seeing that over 34 frames we have had full bomber twice, 1/2 fighter and 1/2 bomber squad splits 10 times, 15 out of 22 pure fighter being axis rides, 7 being allied fighter, all but 2 P51D and 2 F4uD, the remaining being Hurri1s I wanted to see what other squads were doing.
All that info is on the Logs, open for all to see. Its not like I broke into your squad rooms and stole the info. But comparisons have to be made to get my point across. It just takes a little research.
Many in my squad prefer flying fighters too over bombers, but we have had our share. I would just like the CiCs to take the time before assigning rides to see what a squad flew last frame, so if a bomber duty is needed, the guys who flew the past 2 frames as buff or split would have a chance to do fighter, and that following frame buff duty would be assigned to a squad who flew pure fighters last frame.
If every squad in here only flew when they had what they wanted, not many would be in bombers as the fighters are the most fun for many of us.
Also if the CMs could check what side a squad was on last FSO and could rotate axis duty it would help.
Remember we all want to enjoy FSOs. I'd just like to see every squad give full committment to whatever ride they get, and each have their turn in the barrel.
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This is the point where you lost me.
Originally posted by FiLtH
When I was CiC about a year ago I saw the trend of small 1-4, 4-8 person squads rarely if ever in bombers. It seemed the way around getting tagged for it. So what I did was take all these small squads and put them in as my bomber force. I wasnt surprised to see on frameday that 3/4s of the guys of those squads who regularly attend when in fighters, were absent for that frame they were selected to fly bombers.
Up until that point I would have agreed with you. Your the first one to point the buff problem out. I don't know about anyone else, but I was never aware that people flying buffs frequently were not volunteering for it. Much less that your enjoyment of FSO is suffering because of the squads you mentioned. Say what you want, but you could have handled this much better. If your squad is not getting it's fair share of fighter time all you had to do was go to the guys running the setup, or like I mentioned before, contact Squadron CO's for some relief. I still can't figure out why you posted in this manner at all, unless you meant to stir something up.
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as the cic for this frame, i will not be looking at past rides or how often you flew what. What i will look at is the ride request first. The last thing i need is a attack group that doesnt wanna fly what they have,nor is any good in it.second i look at ranks of a squad in the ma.You can easily see who is proficiant and whos not in one thing or another.the 3rd is numbers of the squad.if neccesary 2 squads or more are grouped but i try to avoid this for comunication purposes.
i dissagree that everyone should have to pull bomber duty.if you dont like it you shouldnt have to fly it just because you havent lately. Its about winning the war,and a squad that likes bombers is more likely to to well than one that doesnt.
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Its come to my attention that my boss has replied to the side and and ride requests in a somewhat laid back manner, basically saying "Put us where you need us."
That was news to me. I had thought he was requesting allies and fighters mostly, as thats what most of us seem to prefer. Although many of us do like bombing at times.
So I hope you can see why I was concerned, where I thought we were requesting but being denied.
Thats what I was trying to get to the bottom to, but alas it was answered for me. He will be requesting more of the allied fighter rides, unless its a big b17/B24 mission which we do like to do. After a few weeks I'll see how we have been doing with granted requests and reply back to the progress, and hopefully improvements made.
As for the people not wanting to fly bomber ever, I still think its only fair to give 100% squad attendance whenever you are called to do so.
Again I was merely raising a red flag to a problem I thought we had at the placement level. Im happy its on our end, and that it should be easy enough to resolve. Sorry if I ruffled anyones feathers, but I hope you see my side of it.
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Also if the CMs could check what side a squad was on last FSO and could rotate axis duty it would help.
They should be. No one should be flying Axis more than twice in a row that does not want to. If they are then someone is dropping the ball.
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Filth,
Look, there is no great conspriacy here. Your squad from what I remember doobs putting down normally places a bomber pref with a fighter pref.
so reasons why you get buffs
1. Big squads normally get buffs just for tonnage
2. Certain squads like mine will have hots nights with kill ratios of 8:1 occasionally and we get fighters for that reason
3. Some squads like mine flat out suck in buffs and we wouldn't accomplish a mission, we flew 1 buff raid in November and did OK not great considering our numbers aloft
4. When I am planning mission I remember certain people as buff people, people you count on hitting, your one of those people who I remember from way back who flew buffs
5. I think of your squad in buffs, not the first thing that comes to mine in fighters, maybe that will change now but that was how I saw it.
6. Your ride requests always have buffs in it from what I remember, and because of that your going to get them
Now....
Addressing those
1. Your posts have changed that
2. you'll amend your ride request
and all will be well with the world in a few frames. BTW please don't put the 56th in bombers because our numbers will drop 30%. I love buffs and I do put a full effort into everytime I lead them as does everyone else who flies with the 56th but the results are not as good as when we fly our 47's.
Vlkryie1
XO 56th Fighter group
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Neg daddog...its on our end.
Rgr Valk, thx
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Just got home from the long weekend, let me look this thread over, I will post something in the next couple of days.
:)
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Originally posted by FiLtH
Its come to my attention that my boss has replied to the side and and ride requests in a somewhat laid back manner, basically saying "Put us where you need us."
As for the people not wanting to fly bomber ever, I still think its only fair to give 100% squad attendance whenever you are called to do so.
Sorry if I ruffled anyones feathers, but I hope you see my side of it.
We get bombers, we match our commitment level. We'll also do a good job.
You know, besides a couple of better ways to address this on your end, if you don't want people getting snippy, next time avoid calling out specific squadrons. It makes their leadership a little less prone to think you're trying to sniff out some sort of "Small Squad FSO Fighter Mafia". Use language like "it looks like some squads fly fighters all the time" instead of "the XXth FG flies fighters, the XXth FG flies fighters, and so on...
And, 348th flies Allies one frame and Axis another. Luckily, the last couple of times of PTO setups, they've fallen inline with our allied/axis flip-flop. I've been CIC before and its amazing how many squads don't take care of their squad assignment requests in advance.
Last, you should have checked with your CO before starting this--because you didn't, I don't really see your side of it. I did get my feathers ruffled, but I'll get over it.
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I have had some time to scan this.
It looks like most of the "issues" mentioned have been given a method of resolution.
A few tips about side and ride request.
Communication inside a squad is very important, if the members of that squad want to have any say in what they are going to do in FSO.
Squadron CO's and XO's need to always send in their side and ride request to the Admin CM. Those squads that don't, tend to get the "left overs".
Admin CM's should try to make sure that squads are not getting "stuck in a rut" in FSO. Even if a squad wants to fly Axis in JU-87s all the time. They need to move around at last every once and a while.
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Keep in mind that the larger squads do see most of the bomber duty. The main reason for this? The large squads tend to have more guys that want to fly bombers. When you give a large squad bomber duty, there is normally enough guys to fill the bomber slots, and still have some squad mates left over to fly escort duty. Most bomber pilots will tell you, they feel much better having some of their own guys flying escort for them.
:aok
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Good Stoney.
Im not a politician and tend to say whats on my mind. If I had posted "some squads fly fighters all the time" its possible some CO or CM would say "I doubt that very much" and then Id have to post it to prove my point etc. I was just trying to nip it in the bud.
I honestly started this thread with no ill intent to the squads listed. But after doing all that work and being told it didnt matter, who cares, it caused me to get a little bitter. But its moot.
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Originally posted by FiLtH
...He will be requesting more of the allied fighter rides, unless its a big b17/B24 mission which we do like to do...
Is there really ever a problem filling B17/B24 slots? IMO the squads that take the Bostons, and the Ju88s etc week after week, are the ones that deserve the heavy 8th AF rides when they come up. I can't speak to what we request but it's logical that as a small squad, we'll never be assigned in B17/B24s. It's Jabos mostly, or fighters every week, we take the assignments and do our best.
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easyscore should never be allowed in a fiter, no bombsight
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:p I'll remember that the next time you need your 6 cleared.:lol
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Neg daddog...its on our end.
I don't think I made myself clear in what I was saying Filth.
Admin CM's are the guys that assign squads to fly Allied or Axis. Players have no say in that apart from requesting sides before the tour even starts. So it can't be our end, (or the player end if I understood you correctly).
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Oh the side thing...ya I thought the CM guys placed the squad sides. And the COs request plane types right?
But...as easy going as the squad has been, its very possible that we were placed on a "where needed" basis. I dont get any forms so I dont know. That to I have been told will be ammended.
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Originally posted by Easyscor
Is there really ever a problem filling B17/B24 slots? IMO the squads that take the Bostons, and the Ju88s etc week after week, are the ones that deserve the heavy 8th AF rides when they come up. I can't speak to what we request but it's logical that as a small squad, we'll never be assigned in B17/B24s. It's Jabos mostly, or fighters every week, we take the assignments and do our best.
I can...and I can tell you we request a fighter each and everytime we're asked because most of our guys hate flying bombers, including me. I won't deny that fact at all, I hate flying bombers in FSO. But if by chance we are assigned to fly bombers, you can bet your bottom dollar we'll do everything we can to pull off our mission.
Now, when I'm CiC here's my thought process:
I think I've been around FSO long enough to know what certain squads are proficient at. Plain and simple, some squads are just better for you as a CiC when they are in fighters. Same goes with certain squads and bombers.
Honestly, of all the squads named in the original post, I have always and will always put them in fighters when it comes time for me to make orders because, A: They are all good fighter squads and B: I know it's what they want to fly.
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Ok I'm confused, what side is my squad on again? 89Buky03 said that we were on the Axis side. This I must know cause I have been flyin German planes like mad.
<>
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Originally posted by RATTFINK
Ok I'm confused, what side is my squad on again? 89Buky03 said that we were on the Axis side. This I must know cause I have been flyin German planes like mad.
<>
Sorry bud.. you guys are allies for this round. I ended up having to do shuffling to balance the numbers out, but comrades ye shall be.
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Howdy Filth ~S~
This'll muddy the waters abit, but take into consideration that most of the time when we're in p47's we are sent on "attack" runs, which for all intent could be applied as a "bomber" role :p
That being said, we'd more then anything like to keep things equal. Place us in bombers as needed, no gripes here.
I can say this as a past and future CiC, it's terribly time consuming to tease out the different information a CiC needs in order to run a "fair" event. It's terribly subjective to say the least. I do try to keep thing on a equal level though, i'll sign our squad up for the axis side as much as possible, as our squad like to be on the allied side when we see P47's in the menu.
As you know.... P47's rule :D
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Originally posted by APDrone
Sorry bud.. you guys are allies for this round. I ended up having to do shuffling to balance the numbers out, but comrades ye shall be.
cc that
Now we really look like silly gease being that our name is The Bad Guys
thx for the reply <>
(http://www.bulletinyourhead.net/star.gif)
(http://www.nomanslandmilitaria.com/805%20Ushanka.jpg)
[size=15]WE ARE READY!!![/size]
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Do we have the orders for Allied???? I have not recieved anything.
rattfinkster@gmail.com
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you should have gotten them.we sent them out to everyone.ill double check it.has anyone else not recieved them?or has anyone recieved them for that matter?
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Flew Ju-88's last night Filth. Our commitment level is 4-6.
348th Fighter Group stats:
Pilots: 5
Kills: 2
Assists: 3
Obj Destroyed: 54
Deaths: 1
Landed: 4
Bailed: 0
Captured: 1
Crashed: 0
Ditched: 0
Disco'd: 0
I hope we don't get bombers again for another 16 frames, or whatever it was. Probably should have sand-bagged a little...
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Nightmares fielded 22, got 14 kills and 7 deaths in La5s. Blew up 14 objects. Escorted IL2s to target but had to get home fast due to fuel. Most of the Il2s made it home I think per daddog.