Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: blkmgc on May 28, 2007, 11:44:23 AM
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Hate to see it when I'm in a bomber....love to fly it as a fighter AC. A fine AC it is. Sultry and mysterious, maybe need to hook up with a LW squad sometime to really enjoy all her benefits. To my fellow bomber dudes, sorry if I shoot you down on occasion. Just thought I'd throw this out there. :)
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Love the 109F
I personally dont find it particularly useful against bombers though
Actually I try not to enguage bombers in the F unless the situation is dire or Im bored with everything else going on
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I love the F, beautiful plane. I love shooting whiners down who are flying it just as much. :t
109G-2 is fantastic too.
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The F is a fantastic plane, especially for furballing & base defense - but it's not a particular threat for bombers. You have to be one of the better shots in this game, one 20mm and two 7.9mm is not exactly overkill.
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If you have alt on the bombers it does pretty well, at least until the bombers' speed bleeds that alt off. Only takes a good solid burst to set a bomber on fire, then pull away. I've done the same with yak9Us as well, but definitely not the best bomber killer now that the gunpods are gone.
Problem is most folks out-run ya running away once they see you want to fight :rofl
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I dont like attacking bombers in 109F because it wastes too much ammo. I am not happy about using most of my ammo for only 3 kills so just ignore them. Only takes a few 20mm to down a fighter.
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Good point. I agree, I guess. But if there's no other action? I'm all over 'em!
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Originally posted by Furball
I love the F, beautiful plane. I love shooting whiners down who are flying it just as much. :t
109G-2 is fantastic too.
109F is sweet to fly, but I find I need the G2s gondolas to have much chance of stopping buffs. The G2 can surprise folks - people don't think it is as maneuverable as it is, and the extra HP and gondolas can give them a rude 20mm surprise.
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Originally posted by EagleDNY
109F is sweet to fly, but I find I need the G2s gondolas to have much chance of stopping buffs. The G2 can surprise folks - people don't think it is as maneuverable as it is, and the extra HP and gondolas can give them a rude 20mm surprise.
Yup, been fighting a lot in it as practice for the upcoming scenario, been getting in and furballing as much as possible in order to test the handling on it - even with gondies it is a great plane, i very much enjoy fighting in it.
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When the perk ord system is introduced I would really like to see the mk108 option return for the g6, now that was a sweet little package.
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Its about the best matchup with a P40E i know of.
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ahhh...the Franz.
Great Bird, Spit killer extraordinaire!
One of the best kept secrets of the early war stable in AH.
Eagler is the guy you want to spend some time with in this bird. He gives me nightmares.
Now, if you want to see something really scary....take a 109G2 for a spin. It's like a 109F on steroids.
cheers,
RTR
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Haven't been killed by a 109F4 yet this tour, and don't plan to.
I haven't even died a total of 10 times this whole tour due to ANY of the Bf-109's. I don't understand why they are so hard to beat... I kill them all the time. And yet I have killed over 30 Bf-109's (any model) this whole tour.
I have 478 kills for this tour, 215 deaths. And this is kind of funny, but the plane I've died most by isn't a plane, It's been from a Ship Gunner, runner up is 17 deaths from an La-7.
I have never been a fan of the Bf-109's They have a terrible roll rate, and maneuver like crap. The only time I'm really afraid of them is when I am low and slow in bombers, otherwise they aren't a threat against fighters of GV's, but that's just me. I've never really liked the cockpit, terrible views, especially from the front. If I'm going to take up a German plane, I'm going to be taking up a Ju-88, an Fw-190A5 or Fw-190A8
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Originally posted by Furball
I love the F, beautiful plane. I love cherry picking whiners down who are flying it just as much. :t
109G-2 is fantastic too.
fixed
:t
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I am a 109 junkie, I can't help myself. :D The F is a great turner as far as 109s go, the G2 would be my next favorite. Though nothing feels soo good as taking up a 109K and killing with 1-2 rounds from the spud gun o' doom! :aok As a matter of fact I got into a great fight with someone flying a 190d-9 and I was in the 109K. we got into a vertical scissors and I managed to get a sweet snapshot on his wing. took it clean off with 1 shell! I have had othere fights ending with the same results.:) Now for Bomber killing I love to take a 109K up and swoop in for fast slashing attacks, fire a few into the wing roots and watch em' fall, then extend back to my perch.
:t
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Originally posted by Mak333
Haven't been killed by a 109F4 yet this tour, and don't plan to.
I haven't even died a total of 10 times this whole tour due to ANY of the Bf-109's. I don't understand why they are so hard to beat... I kill them all the time. And yet I have killed over 30 Bf-109's (any model) this whole tour.
I have 478 kills for this tour, 215 deaths. And this is kind of funny, but the plane I've died most by isn't a plane, It's been from a Ship Gunner, runner up is 17 deaths from an La-7.
I have never been a fan of the Bf-109's They have a terrible roll rate, and maneuver like crap. The only time I'm really afraid of them is when I am low and slow in bombers, otherwise they aren't a threat against fighters of GV's, but that's just me. I've never really liked the cockpit, terrible views, especially from the front. If I'm going to take up a German plane, I'm going to be taking up a Ju-88, an Fw-190A5 or Fw-190A8
0o0o No he didnT!!!
:noid
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Originally posted by Mak333
I have never been a fan of the Bf-109's They have a terrible roll rate, and maneuver like crap.
I lol'd.:lol
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real men fly the G14 at 6,000ft with 20mm and gondies.
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Originally posted by Mak333
Haven't been killed by a 109F4 yet this tour, and don't plan to.
I'm sure we could arrange that to change if you would like to.. :D
Originally posted by DREDIOCK
fixed
:t
bahaha :aok
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The 109F used to be my main ride before HTC crippled it. Now the G2 and K4 are the only 109s that I fly unless Im screwing around. G14 with trip 20s it my my number two buff killer after the 110.
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Originally posted by Mak333
I have never been a fan of the Bf-109's They have a terrible roll rate, and maneuver like crap. The only time I'm really afraid of them is when I am low and slow in bombers, otherwise they aren't a threat against fighters of GV's, but that's just me. I've never really liked the cockpit, terrible views, especially from the front. If I'm going to take up a German plane, I'm going to be taking up a Ju-88, an Fw-190A5 or Fw-190A8
What you just said shows that you have never tryed to fly a 109. If you would take the time and learn how to fly one you would see that they are some of the best planes in the game.
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Yeah, what he said.....:D
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Originally posted by Larry
The 109F used to be my main ride before HTC crippled it. Now the G2 and K4 are the only 109s that I fly unless Im screwing around. G14 with trip 20s it my my number two buff killer after the 110.
Crippled?????:huh
Bronk
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I took out a set of 24s in a 109 E-4 with 52 rounds the other night :huh
I don't know what it was, but had I been in any Luftwaffe ride with 2 x 20mm cannons I doubt the same attacks would have yielded the same results... The MG FF cannons seemed unusually powerful.
I was under the impression that the MG 151 cannons were vastly superior to the MG FFs.
On one buff a High-Six shot was enough to brind down the B-24 with a very short burst. (I wasn't staying in one place longer enough to let the laser-ack get anywhere near the Emil, I suspect the wings would jump off in fear of a bullet at close proximity)
It was very odd.
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Originally posted by Bronk
Crippled?????:huh
They took off the gondies.
Originally posted by Xasthur
I don't know what it was, but had I been in any Luftwaffe ride with 2 x 20mm cannons I doubt the same attacks would have yielded the same results... The MG FF cannons seemed unusually powerful.
I was under the impression that the MG 151 cannons were vastly superior to the MG FFs.
One Mg151/20s is about 2x better then the MgFF.
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The Bf 109 F-4/R7 had the MG 151/15 cannons under the wings, not the MG 151/20.
I really do miss the gondolas on the F-4.
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Originally posted by Larry
What you just said shows that you have never tryed to fly a 109. If you would take the time and learn how to fly one you would see that they are some of the best planes in the game.
Nah I have tried to fly one, but I think they are for the same type of "engine" buffs who will not drive any type of vehicle without a V6 or V8 engine, because they want POWER. I understand the 109 has tons of HP, and has one of the highest acceleration rates at ground level, correct? It's got big guns etc etc, but the thing flies like a tank. It doesn't have half of the nimbleness that a 190 has, and you can't roll the thing for crap. I don't know what good it does against bombers, when at high speeds... I've tried it out and it starts to stall around 500mph - is that safe to say?
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Any model 109 has vastly superior stall characteristics to a 190.
More stable at lower speeds, good flaps and no snap-roll stalling.
Why did HTC remove the gondolas from the 109F?
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Originally posted by Mak333
Nah I have tried to fly one, but I think they are for the same type of "engine" buffs who will not drive any type of vehicle without a V6 or V8 engine, because they want POWER. I understand the 109 has tons of HP, and has one of the highest acceleration rates at ground level, correct? It's got big guns etc etc, but the thing flies like a tank. It doesn't have half of the nimbleness that a 190 has, and you can't roll the thing for crap. I don't know what good it does against bombers, when at high speeds... I've tried it out and it starts to stall around 500mph - is that safe to say?
The only thing a 109 cant out do a 190 at is roll rate. Other then that a 109 can fly circles around a 190 any day of the week. I dont know what game you're playing but none of the 109s "fly like a tank" unless you're a spit flyer and used to the "easy mode"
109E4
109F4 are the slow turners.
109G14
109K4 are the fast B&Zers but can turn if you need to.
109G2
109G6 are in the middle good speed and turn rates.
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the K4 is basically an even more stupidly uber La7, with 30mm cannon.
G14 down to the F are all sweet handling and very easy to dominate the fastest or slowest planes in the game
109E will turn fight with almost anything and win, with the right manouvers.
109s are almost too easy to fly.
:cool:
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The K4 is not even in the same uber league as the La7. It cant out run it, it can barely out turn it, and the guns don't even come close to the La7s guns.
It takes skill to fly german iron unlike those spitfarts you fly. "when in dought just turn":p
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Originally posted by Mak333
Nah I have tried to fly one, but I think they are for the same type of "engine" buffs who will not drive any type of vehicle without a V6 or V8 engine, because they want POWER. I understand the 109 has tons of HP, and has one of the highest acceleration rates at ground level, correct? It's got big guns etc etc, but the thing flies like a tank. It doesn't have half of the nimbleness that a 190 has, and you can't roll the thing for crap. I don't know what good it does against bombers, when at high speeds... I've tried it out and it starts to stall around 500mph - is that safe to say?
Please, humour us, and do let us know what plane you fly. Your comments on both posts are way off the mark. The 109 takes a bit of time to learn and requires patience when it comes to gunnery. Once you have that, it is a killer's machine.
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Originally posted by Xasthur
Any model 109 has vastly superior stall characteristics to a 190.
More stable at lower speeds, good flaps and no snap-roll stalling.
Why did HTC remove the gondolas from the 109F?
109F with gondolas were rare commodity. They were used as a testbed for the new 109G-2s.
The old spit 5 (109F's main opponent) saw 50% reduction of cannon rounds, and 33% performance reduction. To maintain parity HTC decided to remove gondolas:aok
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I don't think it was tit-for-tat. I don't think parity had anything to do with it.
They had the chance to make the entire 109 lineup representative for its time frame. That means the G-6 became the early G-6 with square canopy and 20mm hub gun. That means the F-4 became the much more common "no gondie" F-4. That doesn't have much to do with spits.
P.S. The Spit5 started out at its current boost. It was overboosted and became the dweeb-ride we all know and love/hate. However it was overmodeled for all occasions. It could not be used in any early-ish setups at all. Putting it back to the early boost was just good thinking. The decision to make it a Vb instead of a Vc (1/2 cannon rounds) doesn't affect it as much because it can still out-shoot most planes. 120 rounds is about par with 150 MG151/20 rounds on the F-4, plus they fire at the same time for a stronger punch.
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Originally posted by Lusche
The F is a fantastic plane, especially for furballing & base defense - but it's not a particular threat for bombers. You have to be one of the better shots in this game, one 20mm and two 7.9mm is not exactly overkill.
Excellent post, and I find it climbs just fine, not to mention the turning radius. F4 is my fav. 109.
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Bf 109 F-4
The F-4 variant was fitted with the DB 601 E engine and carried the MG 151 cannon. A total of 1,883 units were built between May 1941 and May 1942 and most surviving F-1, F-2 and F-3 sub-types were systematically converted to the F-4 standards during overhauls, but retained their original serial numbers.
The operational versions were:
F-4 Fighter: clean configuration.
F-4 Trop Trop: Fighter for tropical and dusty environments.
Rustsatze (equipment condition)
F-4/R1 Fighter-Bomber: one ETC 500/IXb bomb rack
F-4/R2 Fighter-Bomber: one ETC 50/VIII d bomb rack.
F-4/R3 Extended range fighter: one 300 litre drop-tank.
F-4/R4 Fighter-Bomber: Rosttrager 4X24 SD 2/XII rack for anti-personnel bomb.
F-4/R7 Heavy Fighter: with two underwing 15 mm MG 151/15 cannon.
Werknummern:
6996-7660
10001-10290
8267-8806
13001-13391
This info is from the book Messerschmitt Bf 109 Recognition Manual
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Why would the F-4 have 15mm guns in the gunpods when the major change in the F-4 over the F-2 was up-gunning from 15mm to 20mm (the 15mm being ineffective)????
Any other sources back that up?
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109 f is a great plane
to those who fly it well. The plane comes with all the essentials for knocking down any fighter. keep the convergence in close, 250-300. Saddle up on your victim and let loose at 275 boom dead.
Great perk farmer too!:aok
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Originally posted by Krusty
P.S. The Spit5 started out at its current boost. It was overboosted and became the dweeb-ride we all know and love/hate. However it was overmodeled for all occasions. It could not be used in any early-ish setups at all. Putting it back to the early boost was just good thinking. The decision to make it a Vb instead of a Vc (1/2 cannon rounds) doesn't affect it as much because it can still out-shoot most planes. 120 rounds is about par with 150 MG151/20 rounds on the F-4, plus they fire at the same time for a stronger punch.
It's not on par, because our F-4, just like the G-2 has the option to take either 150 or 200 rounds for the MG 151/20. Only G-6 and G-14 are limited to 150 rpg.
And I don't think anyone will take the 150rpg version, unless he believes that a 0.3 % weight reduction will give him an edge in a turnfight ;)
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Only the center cannon was changed from the MG 151/15 to the MG 151/20. My source is listed above.
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Xargos, my point is that the MG151 15mm was deemed too underpowered and ineffective. Why would they change the center gun, find THAT wasn't enough, and then add on 2 more underpowered "ineffective" 15mms to the wings? Seems much more likely that they'd use the 151/20 20mm guns which were now available. Not to mention the gondolas were essentially the same as on the 109Gs, and those never had 15mm guns on the Gs.
I just find it strange.
Lusche: I've had some "109 pilots" tell me they find the nose heavy with the larger ammo load. I guess it doesn't really even compare (apples/oranges, spits/109s) so I retract my statement. I was trying to point out that the spit was still competitive, but it's a moot point.
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The Bf 109 G-6/U6 had the MK 108 center cannon plus the MK 108 Gondolas, for a total of three 30 mm cannon.:)
P.S. I bet she handled like a brick though.:(
P.P.S I wish the Germans had put the Galland Hood on the Friedrich.
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Mak, do you even play this game? Are you thinking you are posting on a forum for another game or something?
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MaK is Dilusional :noid
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Originally posted by 1K3
109F with gondolas were rare commodity. They were used as a testbed for the new 109G-2s.
The old spit 5 (109F's main opponent) saw 50% reduction of cannon rounds, and 33% performance reduction. To maintain parity HTC decided to remove gondolas:aok
So put the spit V back there are all ready enough spit dweebs, few more wont hurt :aok :lol. Also the E-4 and F-4 both carried bombs. Gondolas could/should be perk ords.
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Originally posted by Xargos
The Bf 109 G-6/U6 had the MK 108 center cannon plus the MK 108 Gondolas, for a total of three 30 mm cannon.:)
Gimmie gimmie gimmie!!! :lol
This would be great for molesting buffs in CT.
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Some one was talking about wanting the 30mms wing pods on the 190A8. As They would be great for killing bombers, but agenst a fighter you might as well go level and grab a drink with they kill you.
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Originally posted by Platano
MaK is Dilusional :noid
It may be true that I am! I don't know! I'm not saying the 109's are bad planes to fly for some people. I just don't see a situation where I would take a 109 over anything else.
I've heard people go on about BnZing with these 109's... Well, I don't know what type of boom and zooming you are talking of, but the 51D can handle much more speed and still has great control and roll rates. The 109 can turn, but so can the 51D if you ever have had experience flying it low and slow. Sure the 109 can turn better than a 51D, but the spitfire, zero's and n1ks to my understanding turn better, correct?
The only thing that I see this plane really having to any advantage is the gun packages, which still don't mean much if you are a good shot. You guys have influenced me to take up some 109's today and not only that but to analyze how they fly and fight.
Excuse me, I also am under the impression that the 109's have great acceleration correct? So after turning with a 51D or 190, they still have a ton of energy left to catch up to the lead plane right?
I'm going to try the 109G14 today and also the F4. Hell I think I'll try all of them. Maybe I'm just not seeing these planes from a certain perspective, or I could be exaggerating the downsides to them a little too much. In any case, for me a 109 has not been a threat unless I am stalling out when going vertical, or low and slow in a 190.
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Fly a tour in the 109s and you'll see what we are talking about. one day isnt going to show you what they can do. Next time your on find eagler and ask him to show you what the 109F is about. Iv been flying 109s foe as long has Iv played AH and I can barely keep up with him. Most of the time when we fight 1v1 it ends me with oil or blood all over my canopy or one of us smaking a tree. Sure the late war 109s can B&Z but you get some onw that knows how to fly them and you can tell in the first minute he knows what hes doing. My fav. thing to do is drop in on someone vut throttle kick rudder and come in right on thier six pop them with a tater and zoom away. Even with 20mms all it takes is a snapshot and your down or hurt bad. As I said before a 109 can fly circles around a 190 any day of the week.
BTW mak whats youre ingame handle?
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I'll try that. Thanks Larry.
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Originally posted by Mak333
The 109 can turn, but so can the 51D if you ever have had experience flying it low and slow. Sure the 109 can turn better than a 51D...
:huh you just contradicted yourself here....And no the 51D is a PiG turning LoW and Slow..
Originally posted by Mak333
The only thing that I see this plane really having to any advantage is the gun packages, which still don't mean much if you are a good shot.
You are wrong again sir... DiD you know that 109's are know For its ZooM to-tha-moon climbing abilities? Especially that k4 :D
HoW about you learn the Plane and see what a magnificant plane it is Then Come back :aok
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You must learn to use the K key if your going to start flying 109s, you won't need it as much once you learn it's limits. Using your rudder also improves your roll rate.
P.S. Angel, he said he would give the 109s a try.
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Originally posted by Geary420
When the perk ord system is introduced I would really like to see the mk108 option return for the g6, now that was a sweet little package.
Geary where'd you get your avator from, looks like a rave. Psychodelic man:eek:
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God i do hate to see a 109 behind my 38, the f or g-2 especially and also when one of those luftwaffe guys are flying it. If i hang in there for a minute or two i feel satisfied, especially for carrying around an extra 5,000 lbs or so. It's usually a satisfying fight though. the 109. :cool:
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Originally posted by LEADPIG
Geary where'd you get your avator from, looks like a rave. Psychodelic man:eek:
I made it from a video I took at an outdoor that we went to on my birthday last year. The party sucked and it was like 10 degrees outside, that avatard is the only good thing to come from it.
The 38 does provide quite enjoyable fights agains a 109, especially with a guy like Ledpig at the stick, we have mixed it up quite a few times IIRC.
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Lots of good info in here. Thanks for that. :)
I like the plane because if you use your head a bit and think about what your doing and its effect, it will produce and bring you home. Now, I'm a bomber pilot mainly, and there are tons of folks better than me ingame for sure. But yesterday I did a sortie around an airfield under attack, and after i got above 10-15K and gained some speed, I found that if I did not turn and burn to the deck, I could disengage and stick some alt back in the e-bank with ease and come back for morewith some speed. As well as bnz pretty easily when the correct opportunity presented itself.
Still have to work on my gunnery a bit, but I had a 4 kill sortie going (including some lancs) when I had to belly in due to a wave of attackers coming in while I was on final...and I got a ditch:mad: . hehe, oh well was a heap of fun anyways.
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For the Messerschmit challenged I reccomend trying to find a copy of morphs vid "The Rooster". Five minutes of great flying in a g10 that inspired me to put down the weeniemobiles and strap on an Iron Cross. The 109 can be a cruel mistress at first no doubt, but if you have the patience and desire to learn it it's great.