Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Beefcake on May 29, 2007, 03:09:25 AM
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I know some of these ideas have been brought up before but I figure it's worth asking again.
Idea #1: Enable the 4th drone at a perk cost.
For those that don't know, when the buff drone system was being installed it was orginally designed for 4 planes, but it was deemed a bit to powerful so it was cut back to 3. The system is already in place with control settings for the 4th plane and gun switching for the 4th plane setup. All that needs to happen is for HT to flip the switch to let it happen. IMO I would think this wouldn't be to hard to do and would give us buff pilots something to blow points on. You could have the extra B17/24 drone maybe cost 30 perks or something and on down depending on the plane. Thoughts?
Idea #2: Purchase of Otto the Infamous Gunner.
I can already hear the screams now. How about allowing buff pilots to buy auto gunners for 50 or so perks. I'm not really sure if this is a good or bad thing but it would be a nice perk dump for the gunnery challenged or the lazy buff driver.....or for the times when those 15 tacos attempt the great escape during that long buff mission.
Idea #3: Extra Buff Formations.
I would love to see this someday....and I can hear the screams now. Anyway, allow the buff pilot to buy exrta drone formations that follow him, like up to 4 or something. (holy cow 12 B17s flown by one pilot) Make it cost something like 50 perks per formation and 25 perks non-refunded so the total cost is like 150-200 perks for the whole thing.
These are just some random ideas I had that I'm sure someone else brought up long ago, but I just wanted to post them as I have nothing to spend all these buff perkies on. And no....the AR234 doesn't count.
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Yes the Ar234 does count. Its great for high speed bombing. Iknow it doesnt carry 10k of bombs but it can take hangers and town down pretty good.
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Hehe I know it counts, was attempting sarcasim. :) The Ar234 is a good little bomber but it's not very useful most of the time as you get 3 bombs and thats it. Also it takes FOREVER to turn around with a formation as well as to land it with a formation.
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More buffs to kill? Sweet.
Bring it on.
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I think formations should be perked anyway.
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Yeah instead of getting 2 drones, make every one you take after the 1st perked. Maybe allow up to 4 drones or so. 1 reason the formations came into play was due to low number of players. With all the growth it shouldn't be hard to get a couple of guys together.
Also, maybe start perking different bomb loads.
Just a few ideas.
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How bout 10 perks per every extra human gunner beyond the first?:D I would spend perks for some more of my squad to join my plane/formation.
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The day they add otto to player bombers is the day I quit.
I guess you folks don't remember WB otto much?
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Originally posted by Krusty
The day they add otto to player bombers is the day I quit.
I guess you folks don't remember WB otto much?
Was he the guy that sat in the co-pilot's seat and stared at you in a strange, "botherly love" sort of way? Wouldn't help fly the plane, gun, or do anyting but sit and stare - totally worthless crew member!
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Buffs with all gun possitions manable, yes HT please bring the 'Death Star' option to AHII... ahhh, a couple of death stars circling a base brings vulching to a whole new level.
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Originally posted by SKJohn
Was he the guy that sat in the co-pilot's seat and stared at you in a strange, "botherly love" sort of way? Wouldn't help fly the plane, gun, or do anyting but sit and stare - totally worthless crew member!
"otto" was the computer-aimed super-lethal AI gunners that you toggled on or off by hitting a key, and they would kill anything in range from any angle.
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I don't really see the need in a 4th plane. Honestlly I'm not even that good in a buff pilot and I can sink CV or hit just about any target I want.
Only way I could see an advantage to a 4th drone, would be if you could control which planes dropped a bomb. As it is now 3 planes if on target waste a bomb (if using 1k lbs) on the hangers.
Don't even get me started on strat bombing. If I up a set of lancasters to hit ords or radars on a few bases. Well lets just say I waste more ords than I'd ever need. In reality our bombers are way too accurate IMO to have a 4th drone.
They didn't use massive bomber formations for no reason at all during the war, yet here in Aces High a single bombers formation can effectivly have a pretty big impact on a base. (not complaining on that)
I would like to see something worth while that I could spend my bomber perks on, but I dunno if a 4th drone would be worth while.
Much can be said for GV's as well, I'd like to see something more than just a Tiger to use perks on. Off the topic of bombers, but I'd love to see a military transport truck that could carry 12 to 15 troops and 2 loads or a larger load of feild supplies on board. Something like that would be worth while to have perked as long as a few gun rounds didn't blow it up.
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Otto? No ... besides, if limited to ammo loads you have now, a smart interceptor will be able to get Otto to waste all his ammo at extreme range, then you is easy pickings. Bad idea.
Death Star? No .... Death Star vulch would be worse than dive buffing in game. Besides, too much of the "who needs a gunner" stuff in text buffer now. Personal experience is that most potential gunners sux. They waste ammo, shoot at anything withing 5K (even friendlies), are ineffective, and leave without telling you.
Perked ord? No ... I've got issues with taking away what buffs have now, unless they get something in return. As HTC policy is nothing larger than the cookie cutter 4K bomb, there is no benefit along this route.
Arado? Eh.... Actually, I much prefer the Ki-67 (and it's guns) for similar missions. Arado is the only perk buff ride, and it's a bit of an acquired taste. I used to kill CV's with flights of Arados, but I still prefer the Ki-67 for that role. If you look through the data available, you'll see the Arado rates as one of the least flown aircraft in the game, along with the Val and Kate (we need the Judy!).
Extra Drones/ Perk All Drones? Possibly. I could support the purchase of ALL drones, if we could purchase up to Five extra drones (formation 3 across, 2 deep, rear row offset) instead of two we get now. Folks at TT would hate it. CV squads would hate it (no one like to fly CAP). It would bring the strategic targets (HQ and Factories) back to being hit more often and needed defense. I think you'd have to get rid of the drone catch up speed with this option too. Force buff drivers to maintain their large formations. But, because of TT and CV's, I don't see it happening. Too bad. Be nice to bring strategic bombing back into the game.
Additional Buff Perk Sink? Yes please (but not getting one anytime soon). The contenders are the A-26B and A-26C Invader, the B-29 Superfortress (sans nook), Mosquito B.Mk XVI, and possibly the He-177.
* Don't think we'll ever see the Superfortress.... too high, too fast, too big a bombload vs gameplay and the whole 'i wanna nook' crowd. Safe bet it's out.
* He-177 may also be too big a load and too high alt and speed for gameplay. Then there is the issue of guided munitions like the Henschel Hs 293 or Fritz X it could carry. Be nice if Germany had it's only heavy bomber produced in numbers.
* Mosquito B.Mk XVI. I'm not that familiar with to determine if it would be a good perk sink or not. It would have to have some performance benefit to rate perk cost.
* A-26B (solid gun nose) and A-26C (glass nosed Norden bomb sight) Invaders I've gone into great detail here: A-26 Invader thread (http://forums.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=198001)
Among the 'Vader's pros is the fact that the B and C models are only different in the nose configuration. For the work of one new plane model, you get the Ground Attack A-26B as well as a good fast penetration A-26C bomber better than the Ki-67 and B-26 with the Norden bombsight for level bombing.
Better performance than the A-20 and B-26. Uber strafer. Up to 14 rockets. Variety of ord options. Two potential perk sinks for development time of one.
But. Sanjaya wun......
As to crockett's comment on something else for GV perks: German 88mm FlaK36 (http://forums.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=198029&highlight=German+88mm) with a light perk cost would be my choice.
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Hell yeah! Great ideas! Maybe HTC will also let you pay perks to have AI fly it around and drop bombs for you too!
Sheesh.:rolleyes:
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What we really need is something you could LOSE buff perks on.
Other that flying goons all but one of my buff runs this camp have been in Ar-234's (the other was in a set of Lancs). I haven't lost one yet (or one of the Lancs) and I've had quite a few runs (probably 2-3 per week).
I do love waving bye-bye at the fighters who think they can catch me though. Bye now... bye-bye.
Ar-234's are better strategic than tactical weapons though. A good tactical bomber like the A-26 Invader would be the perfect compliment and would probably need to be perked.
Another option would be a perked Lancaster B-1 with the Tallboy or Grand Slam load-out, even if it was only useable against HQ. It would give more people an incentive to go for HQ and also give 163's a greater role in the game.
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Perked ord would be cool, depending on the options, like napalm, I'd pay for that.
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Originally posted by AAolds
Perked ord would be cool, depending on the options, like napalm, I'd pay for that.
Things like napalm and incendiaries are Area Effect(AE) and Damage over Time (DoT) effects, if modeled correctly in game, and the current game damage code does not work that way as I understand it. It would not be a simple addition, and it's effects would be limited to soft targets really. Or, they could just add the eye candy, but the actual code would be just like the existing bombs.
With a lot more emphasis on ground targets: front lines, troops, marshaling yards, freighters for anti-shipping operations, communications centers, destroyable bridges, more emphasis on strategic targets...... with the work that would go into all of that, then I can see more specialized ordnance added to the game along with a major rebuild of the game code.
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I am still pretty new to AHII, however most of my flight time is in buffs. So I have some thoughts on this thread.
Extra aircraft, nah... 3 is fine for me.
I would like to see some other options of aircraft to fly but that will take a lot of time and effort for HTC to accomplish unless they are already moving that way.
I do like the idea of perhaps perking the ability to customize your ord load out as long as it is within the capabilities of the particular aircraft you are flying. I wouldnt want to see B26's carrying Lancaster ord loads. That would be rediculous. However this may require some work from HTC to code some of these options.
I was thinking perhaps an option of extra ammo. Usually not a problem but on longer flights over defended airspace I have run out of ammo.
I personally dont care much for the AR234. IMO it has a wimp ord load out, no defensive guns and other than some kind of nastalgic kick I dont care to take the ride. Just my preferences though.
I must point out that even as a newb I am acquiring a pile of Bomber perks and I can see that as I continue to play my personal style I will soon amass a huge number.
Here is an idea, however I expect a huge Powerwhining session as a response to this. What about transfering perks from the category earned from and spend on another? For example since I suck as a fighter pilot I have zip point doodle fighter perks. I am not too bad as a buff pilot and have a lot of perks there. Perhaps we can use those perks on fighters, vehicles or some other category we dont have them in? Being a newb maybe I just dont get it but IMHO... perks is perks. Dont really see why it matters what I spend them on as long as I earn them.
Later,
KayBay
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I would support a move to perk buff drones if they gave us the 4th one, however, there is a problem with that. New players to the game wouldn't be able to take up formations and thus have a far less likely chance of survival then vets do. (Even greater than they have now.)
On Otto, I mainly just threw that one out there. IMO unless we have 1 player flying formations of 12 planes, I don't think otto should ever be introduced.
The main reason I started this thread is because I wanted to suggest ways for HTC to do this without having to add another plane. I think we all know that the only true way to have a new sink in the game is for a good plane to come in, however, that would take months and months, and I'm sure the fighter jocks would not be happy with yet another buff coming after the B25.
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Originally posted by KayBayRay
I personally dont care much for the AR234. IMO it has a wimp ord load out, no defensive guns and other than some kind of nastalgic kick I dont care to take the ride. Just my preferences though.
3 X 500kg bombs per plane. That's about 3,306 lbs for 1 plane, nearly what a B-26 can carry, (and more than all but the 4 heavy bombers) at up to 455 mph. Nearly 10,000 lbs for a flight of three. Also has a good climb rate. It has some uses, but take a little to get used to. Probably one of the best uses is to search for a carrier that the other guys have hid deep behind the lines, and kill it so your side can get it back. But, I find the guns and variable (if smaller) bomb load of a Ki-67 more useful. Also, may Arado pilots have trouble with the plane: things like calibrating the RATOs and never hitting their target.
I must point out that even as a newb I am acquiring a pile of Bomber perks and I can see that as I continue to play my personal style I will soon amass a huge number.
.....What about transfering perks from the category earned from and spend on another? .....
Ah, you hit on it between those two statements. You'd have people doing milk runs in bombers to get points they can use on perk fighters, as it can be easier to earn points this way. More milkrunners in EW and MW arenas. More strat factory raids. Now, would this be good or bad? Most of these runs might end up as bomb and bail as buff drivers realized they can earn points faster with a ditch to make 75% of perks, and up again sooner, rather than take the time to get back to base and land for the bonus (not always true, but sometimes)?
Lots of skilless pilots in perk rides they would quickly lose?
Nope, I'd rather have a few alternatives to the Arado to spend my buff perk points on (like to see the FlaK36 for GV points too) rather than being able to transfer them. Perk rides are bonuses for doing well. You earn them doing a particular kind of mission, you get rewarded with a perk ride for those types of missions.
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Well here is an idea for the Buff--->Fighter perk transfer, make it so it's 4-->1. IE exchange 100 buff perks for 25 fighter perks, or even a higher rate than that, say 100-->10.
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Originally posted by Beefcake
... I think we all know that the only true way to have a new sink in the game is for a good plane to come in, however, that would take months and months, and I'm sure the fighter jocks would not be happy with yet another buff coming after the B25.
Sadly, I'm not sure the bomber pilots will be happy shortly after the Mitchell's release either --- although the fighter pilot's will have a few weeks, or even a couple months, of what U-boat crews would call "The Happy Time".
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You underestimate the Mitchell! Many will fly it because we like it better than the B-26, not because it's better than it :aok
<-- would use the B-25 for a bomber a LOT more than the B-26.
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Originally posted by tedrbr
* Mosquito B.Mk XVI. I'm not that familiar with to determine if it would be a good perk sink or not. It would have to have some performance benefit to rate perk cost.
The Ar234 tops out at 377mph with three 500kg bombs in my tests. Only once it drops the external bombs does it get up towards 480mph.
The Mosquito B.Mk XVI could do better than 400mph carrying a 4,000lb 'cookie' internally. It won't gain much speed after dropping it, but it is faster when laden.
I don't think the He177 has the performance to justify perking.
The A-26, B-29 and Mosquito B.Mk XVI are the only bombers that have what it takes to be perked I think.
I guess you might perk the He177 for about 5 points or so.
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A yellow post-it note has been secretly "removed" from HT's monitor. In ways I cannot yet reveal, it was delivered to me. It reads so:
Bober perk sinks to inplement:
1. Perk 1000lbs and above.
2. Perk drons.
4. Model Mosquito XVI.
I totally agree with that. Bomber perks are easy to earn. Drones are expendable for most bomber pilots. What reason have they to save the drones after they released the ordnance? If you pay for them, even 1 measly perk each, you'll have some respect for their lives.
Perking heavy bombs is a part of an attempt to encourage landing attack and bomber sorties. If you want to fly your tiffi into the target, or dive bomb a CV with a lancaster, you can do it for free with small bombs (less effective) or pay your perks.
Remember - everything is free if you land it.
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More planes in a formation? Not till you make it so they can't carpet bomb from 200 feet. OR, give us the 88 for a defensive weapon.
Perk the drones? Good idea. That might help cure people from flying a formation in and loosing all their drones carpet bombing. Or doing the "Bomb and Bail" routine. You don't see to many carpet bombing Ar-234s now do you? I know there are some buff bunnies that have like a 4 to 1 death to kill ratio just because they fly at tree top level to carpet bomb a GV or two. They routinely loose all their planes and just reup. No loss. What the heck. BUT if they lost perk pts for every drone they lost, it wouldn't be very long at all before that would end. :aok
And as for having more buffs or fighters? As I said once before. There are 73, soon to be 74 airplanes to chose from and 11 vehicles with only two that are designed for air defense.
WIRBLWIND - GERMAN 88 :D
LTARsqrl <>
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Originally posted by Karnak
The Ar234 tops out at 377mph with three 500kg bombs in my tests. Only once it drops the external bombs does it get up towards 480mph.
The Mosquito B.Mk XVI could do better than 400mph carrying a 4,000lb 'cookie' internally. It won't gain much speed after dropping it, but it is faster when laden.
As I said, I've been flying the Ardo almost exclusively this camp. At 8-10,000 feet with three sectors to build and stabalize speed I usually calibrate at between 409-412 mph TGS (with 3 500kg bombs). Once the ord is gone it's good for between 455-458 mph in level flight. Faster in a slight dive.
You might want to re-try your tests.
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Squirrel, there's nothing wrong with carpet bombing GVs.
The reason you don't see Arados doing it is because carpet bombing requires many bombs to cover a large area... Arados would be more of doormat-bombing (pathetic bombload).
I agree that perking drones might be interesting (but not adding more drones for more perks), I just don't think so for the same reasons you do.
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Ok...why do I want the 4th drone?
Perk Sink, extra defense, greater chance of success when bombing targets, and it would just be cool to have 4 planes.
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Last thing bombers need is MORE guns all laser-slaved to the same gunner....
:noid :furious :noid :furious
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Right........Bostons would have 2 more guns......Lancs would only have 6 more...so how can we deal with the issue of bombers having more guns controlled and slaved by one player? I know...lets add Otto....oh wait...thats right....you don't want Otto....so what can we do? Lets just remove buff guns.
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Originally posted by Krusty
Last thing bombers need is MORE guns all laser-slaved to the same gunner....
** The more I think about it, the more that additional drones won't work. Not because of the guns so much as the effect on CV's and TT. CV's too vulnerable now since no one flies CAP and they have no early earning picket destroyers. Larger flights of buffs carpet bombing TT is just an additional grief. Then there is the fact towns become that much easier to drop for capture.
Being able to buy a 3rd, 4th, or 5th drone would add to the ability of buff drivers to attack strat factories for strategic side of the war to greater effect, as well as be a buff perk point sink, but the other game play and grief issues make it a bad path to follow. Heavy bombers without drones are very easy targets for enemy fighters to kill, so I can't see adding a perk cost to drones #1 and #2. (I'll grant that the drone catch up speed should be limited to max, not the speeds they do attain now, to force pilots to take care of their formations, and I'd love to see a lightly perked German 88mm FlaK36 added to the game as well to provide manned puffy ack).
** Perked ord is just a nerf to the existing bombers. 4,000 lb cookie cutter is the largest we'll see, according to HTC mantra, so no larger bombs to spend perks on.
** I don't like the idea of transferable perks. Would lead to buff perk farming in EW and MW to spend on LW perk rides by players that are not much good in them.
** That leaves additional perk rides. A-26B and A-26C Invader, the Mosquito B.Mk XVI, and (maybe) the He-177.
But even with additional perk rides, the perk sink won't be a very large one. Only bombers that could be added that would be big perk point sinks would be the B-29 and the He-177 with Henschel Hs 293 or Fritz X munitions..... neither of which we will see.
A rough work of the numbers in the Scores for this month (total kills plus total deaths per plane shown against the total for the entire class) shows bomber use to be approximately:
Comparative bomber use
B24 20.2%
Lanc 19.2%
IL2 13.0%
B-17 11.7%
B26 9.6%
JU88 8.3%
A20 5.0%
TBM 3.9%
Ki-67 2.1%
Boston 1.6%
SBD 1.4%
Stuka 1.3%
B5N2 0.7%
D3A1 0.7%
Arado 0.5%
This is just working with the numbers available. I only sampled one month, since without the actual number of spawns, I only have kill and death numbers to work with, so it will be +/- a few tenths anyways.
And by contrast, bombers accounted for 14% of the planes used when comparing kill and death totals across the board. 86% were fighters and attack planes.
Originally posted by Krusty
You underestimate the Mitchell! Many will fly it because we like it better than the B-26, not because it's better than it :aok
<-- would use the B-25 for a bomber a LOT more than the B-26.
No doubt that there are a number of pilots that will fly it, but I very much doubt "many" will. As it won a popular vote, and based on it's performance numbers, I still believe many pilots will not fly it past the second or third tour on release. The players in general seem to put a premium on total bomb carry capacity. And I'm betting missions like those posted by ghi are inflating (skewing) the B-26 numbers relative to the rest. 4 planes account for approximately 64% of the bombers, and one of them primarily does anti-GV work.
So I believe the players (in general) will shun the Mitchell. A 75mm equipped one may draw some interest, but I doubt that it would be very effective vs GVs or towns. There will be some skins done for the Mitchell, probably more skins than most planes see. It will see some SEA use and possibly EW/MW use, depending on the version. But overall I expect a resounding "thud" after initial novelty wears off. My guess is around 5% by it's fourth tour and helped by EW use.
And this is from a player that flew mostly B-17's vs field strats before the MA split, and flies mostly A-20's, IL2's, and Ki-67's in LW now, when driving buffs.
Even the A-26B and A-26C combo I pushed for would not break into the percentages of the heavies, although it's performance, gun package, and loadout would have helped it's relative use a lot as compared to most, and would have provided an additional perk sink to the Arado.
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Originally posted by LTARsqrl
More planes in a formation? Not till you make it so they can't carpet bomb from 200 feet. OR, give us the 88 for a defensive weapon.
Perk the drones? Good idea. That might help cure people from flying a formation in and loosing all their drones carpet bombing. Or doing the "Bomb and Bail" routine. You don't see to many carpet bombing Ar-234s now do you? I know there are some buff bunnies that have like a 4 to 1 death to kill ratio just because they fly at tree top level to carpet bomb a GV or two. They routinely loose all their planes and just reup. No loss. What the heck. BUT if they lost perk pts for every drone they lost, it wouldn't be very long at all before that would end. :aok
And as for having more buffs or fighters? As I said once before. There are 73, soon to be 74 airplanes to chose from and 11 vehicles with only two that are designed for air defense.
WIRBLWIND - GERMAN 88 :D
LTARsqrl <>
Why hurt the guys that use bombers correctly just to stop the dweebs? Why not make the bomb bay door auto close on formation bombers, if the plane is under 1k alt or in a dive? Seems to me something simple like that would fix the issue and not hurt guys that use bombers the way they were meant to be used.
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The thread was about perk sinks. It implies spending some perks.
Bomber perks are by far the easiest to make. Perking drones is a good idea that will hurt no one if the cost is low enough. Even 1-2 perks per drone is sufficient. Worst case scenario - you take off in a single bomber - It worked just fine in AHI for years. Hit a town or a factory which you can't miss and next sortie you get your drones. I bet most bomber pilots will hoard so many perk points they'll never notice drones cost any.
Perking 1000+ lbs is a good idea. It does not penalize the bombers and goes well with HTC's future plane to perk loadout options. Most bombers can carry the same weight in 500 lbs that they can in 1000 lbs. I strongly support perking 1000 lbs mainly for the JABO role, but that's another issue.
Adding a perk bomber will be nice, but not really a perk sink. They will be rarely used, same as the perked fighters. A perk sink needs to work across the board and loadout/drones perks do that.
Remember: Its all free if you land it.
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Tedrbr the more of your posts I read the more I have come to respect what you have to say.
That was one well thought out post up above.
YES please give us a very lightly perked mossie bomber only varient with formations.
YES please A26's, preferably at least a couple of varients, perk them, but hopefully not TOO high. I don't mind spending a few perks now & then but I won't spend 200 perks on a bomber thats going to get shot down. 30 to 50, sure thing, bring it on.
Last I've been saying for years now that AH needs a Perk Point Bank.
Move perks between arena's but at a healthy cost. Like 20% fee for doing so.
Change bomber perks to fighter perks, but pay a 20% changing fee to do so.
Give perks to a squad mate or friend, should be fast, free and easy. After all there should be no charge for a charitable donation right?
They are our perks, we earned them, let us do what we please with them.
But make us pay for the privilege of doing so. :)
Ohhh and last, 5000 perks should get you a free tshirt with the AH logo on it.
You've earned it!