Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: VOR on May 29, 2007, 09:24:50 AM
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It's tough to learn a lesson the hard way, especially when you've been used and then thrown away like a tissue by the people you thought genuinely cared about your cause. I'm glad to see someone finally figure things out about the right and the left, but sorry to see someone figure it out at their personal expense.
Anti-war mom Cindy Sheehan gives up her protest
She wrote that she is disillusioned by the failure of Democratic politicians to bring the unpopular war to an end and tired of a peace movement she said "often puts personal egos above peace and human life."
"I have tried ever since he died to make his sacrifice meaningful," she wrote. "Casey died for a country which cares more about who will be the next American Idol than how many people will be killed in the next few months while Democrats and Republicans play politics with human lives.
Sheehan warned that the United States was becoming "a fascist corporate wasteland," and that onetime allies among Bush's Democratic opposition turned on her when she began trying to hold them accountable for bringing the 4-year-old war to a close.
Story (http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/05/28/sheehan/index.html?eref=rss_topstories)
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she really was used - by the Democrats AND the progressive far left in this country - for all the milage they could squeeze out of it. but she used them, as well, for the spotlight (according to some of her family members).
i can't feel sorry for Sheehan beyond my empathy for her as a grieving parent.
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I don't feel sorry for her a bit. She chose to take the actions she did and after starting them was taken in by the left. She's leaving simply because she has found out she's far more left than the majority of liberals she wanted support from and they wouldn't provide it.
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Originally posted by Maverick
I don't feel sorry for her a bit. She chose to take the actions she did and after starting them was taken in by the left. She's leaving simply because she has found out she's far more left than the majority of liberals she wanted support from and they wouldn't provide it.
Spot on!
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She gets no sympathy from me. She made her choices. If you ever read what she writes, or listen to her speak, that'll be all you'll need.
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I fell sorry for her loss. but she getting what she deserves, for making a mockery of her sons death the way she has.
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what did she expect ...
the global warming folks should take a lesson from her .. they will be dropped by the left as soon as they get what they want in 08
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I'm sorry for her loss but my sympathy goes no further, like others have posted.
She has uttered many disparaging and unfounded things and it's no surprise that her support has faded. Her last support was the left wing kook division of the dems but when she started blasting dems for not stopping the war... game over.
Quotes:
"The biggest terrorist in the world is George W. Bush,”
"The war in Iraq will end, our troops will come home, Bush will be impeached and he will be brought to justice.”
"That lying bastard, George Bush, is taking a five-week vacation in time of war"
" I am not paying my taxes for 2004. You killed my son, George Bush, and I don't owe you a penny...you give my son back and I'll pay my taxes. Come after me (for back taxes) and we'll put this war on trial.”
“I admire President Chavez for his strength to resist the United States. Instead, Bush is waging a war of terrorism against the world.”
"The Iraqi people aren't freer, they're much worse off than before you meddled in their country."
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She said her son died for nothing. Her son died serving our country and that says it all for me. He died in service of every american, and there is a an infinite amount of value in that, at least in my reasoning.
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It's funny to see people become dissapointed when they find out that not everyone agrees with them. Really, she's a political amature that lacked the patience to see something through. Now, instead of working to ensure that she can attain whatever relief she can, she's just going to take her ball and go home.
The process won't miss her.
-Sik
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B-bye.
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"Casey died for a country which cares more about who will be the next American Idol than how many people will be killed in the next few months while Democrats and Republicans play politics with human lives."
That's almost sig material
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Originally posted by Yeager
She said her son died for nothing. Her son died serving our country and that says it all for me. He died in service of every american, and there is a an infinite amount of value in that, at least in my reasoning.
Have you lost a son?
If not, you have no clue what you are talking about. Trust me on this one. I didn't lose mine in combat, but until you've dealt with that kind of loss, you can't know what it's like.
It changes your perspective on everything and I mean everything. What holds value and what doesn't comes into very sharp focus.
I'd suggest that on some level, she was desperate in her grief to find some meaning or understanding to her son's death, and in the end discovered it isn't there and that the pain and the grief isn't going to go away. He didn't come back despite her efforts
Now she's stuck with the hard truth and it sucks cause despite everything you try, it's there every morning when you wake up and every night when you go to bed.
I can't condemn her for trying to find some peace with it regardless of the politics. She lost the far tougher battle she was fighting.
Just an after thought about one of the Dads that is part of the Compassionate friends group my wife and I belong to. (Compassionate Friends is a group for parents who've lost kids) He's career military and his 20 year old son died in a car wreck on the way to being deployed to Iraq. His son died two days after my 21 year old son and 15 year old daughter were killed in a car wreck, 21 months ago now.
part of his military time was spent leading an honor guard for military funerals. He very much bought into the pomp and circumstance of it and the 'sacrifice'. This was until he was sitting there polishing his son's brass for the funeral. It no longer meant a thing. All he cared about was that his boy was never coming home. That hasn't changed for him. It's hard seeing this strong, proud man, so crushed by what he's lost.
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Originally posted by Guppy35
Have you lost a son?
If not, you have no clue what you are talking about. Trust me on this one. I didn't lose mine in combat, but until you've dealt with that kind of loss, you can't know what it's like.
It changes your perspective on everything and I mean everything. What holds value and what doesn't comes into very sharp focus.
I'd suggest that on some level, she was desperate in her grief to find some meaning or understanding to her son's death, and in the end discovered it isn't there and that the pain and the grief isn't going to go away. He didn't come back despite her efforts
Now she's stuck with the hard truth and it sucks cause despite everything you try, it's there every morning when you wake up and every night when you go to bed.
I can't condemn her for trying to find some peace with it regardless of the politics. She lost the far tougher battle she was fighting.
Just an after thought about one of the Dads that is part of the Compassionate friends group my wife and I belong to. (Compassionate Friends is a group for parents who've lost kids) He's career military and his 20 year old son died in a car wreck on the way to being deployed to Iraq. His son died two days after my 21 year old son and 15 year old daughter were killed in a car wreck, 21 months ago now.
part of his military time was spent leading an honor guard for military funerals. He very much bought into the pomp and circumstance of it and the 'sacrifice'. This was until he was sitting there polishing his son's brass for the funeral. It no longer meant a thing. All he cared about was that his boy was never coming home. That hasn't changed for him. It's hard seeing this strong, proud man, so crushed by what he's lost.
Quoted again for the politicos who just seem upset that she criticised Bush.
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^^^^^^^^^
Well said Dan, I'll never agree with her politics.
More importantly.... I have no idea how the loss of one of my children would affect me, my beliefs, or behavior. I hope I'll never have to endure her grief. I hope she finds peace somewhere.
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Originally posted by Curval
Quoted again for the politicos who just seem upset that she criticised Bush.
Grandstanding BS. She has a right to criticize Bush. I criticize Bush. I don't call Bush a lying Bastard, I didn't say our country was waging the war of terrrorism on the world. Other irresponsible things Sheehan said:
‘This country is not worth dying for.’
"Is there anyone in America who cannot yet see that Donald Runsfeld is a liar…that he, as with Hitler and Stalin….will say anything so long as he thinks it will help shape the world to his own liking? Is there even one, sane adult among us who cannot see that Donald Rumsfeld is a threat to our nation’s security and to peace on our beloved earth?"
"Our country has been overtaken by murderous thugs..."
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Originally posted by SteveBailey
Grandstanding BS. She has a right to criticize Bush. I criticize Bush. I don't call Bush a lying Bastard, I didn't say our country was waging the war of terrrorism on the world. Other irresponsible things Sheehan said:
‘This country is not worth dying for.’
"Is there anyone in America who cannot yet see that Donald Runsfeld is a liar…that he, as with Hitler and Stalin….will say anything so long as he thinks it will help shape the world to his own liking? Is there even one, sane adult among us who cannot see that Donald Rumsfeld is a threat to our nation’s security and to peace on our beloved earth?"
"Our country has been overtaken by murderous thugs..."
Did you read what I wrote Steve?
Did she get used for political purposes? Sure. A desperate mom, lashing out at anyone she can find to blame for the death of her son. Again, trust me on this, you go a little crazy after a loss like that. And again, you reach a point where you figure out that no matter what you do, you can't bring your kid back.
And it sucks.
Problem is, her grief got played out on a public stage. I think about some of the stuff I did, hoping, praying that my kids would somehow show up again and if it was played out for everyone to see, they'd think I am crazy. What some of the other parents I know who've lost kids have done would make you think the same.
It is not a rational thing to deal with. There is no set path through grief and there is no set end time.
As near as I can tell, her efforts did little other then to give folks without a clue to her pain, a reason to ***** about her.
Seperate the politics from the grief and cut the lady some slack.
And then try and imagine dealing with the loss of one of those beautiful little girls you've got Steve. And then multiply it by a million as there is no way to know until you are there. And you wouldn't wish for anyone to be there with you.
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I sympathized with her right up until she began make a spectacle and a sad celebrity of herself. It has nothing to do with politics. I know many people who lost children, none of them has made a public spectacle of themselves, nor turned themselves into celebrities over it. Even if you look at people like the Petty family, who were celebrities to begin with, or the Walshes, who were not, none of them behaved in the bizarre and disgusting manner Cindy Sheehan did. When you pose for a magazine, dressed in lycra/spandex tights, lying face down on your child's grave, you are not grieving, you are sick, very sick. That's not the action of a grieving parent, but rather the actions of a wacko whose loss of their child just tripped their trigger. She's done nothing at all positive with her grief, and she's still looking to cash in.
SHE made the decision to play her grief out on the public stage. SHE thrived on the attention, the money, and the spectacle. Yes, it is a terrible thing that her son was killed. But it is even more terrible that she made a sick, twisted, public spectacle of her grief. I do not think we've seen the last of her, as much as I would like to hope that she might recover and grasp reality, and hopefully find some peace and healing. I just don't think that's what she wants.
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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
I sympathized with her right up until she began make a spectacle and a sad celebrity of herself. It has nothing to do with politics. I know many people who lost children, none of them has made a public spectacle of themselves, nor turned themselves into celebrities over it. Even if you look at people like the Petty family, who were celebrities to begin with, or the Walshes, who were not, none of them behaved in the bizarre and disgusting manner Cindy Sheehan did. When you pose for a magazine, dressed in lycra/spandex tights, lying face down on your child's grave, you are not grieving, you are sick, very sick. That's not the action of a grieving parent, but rather the actions of a wacko whose loss of their child just tripped their trigger. She's done nothing at all positive with her grief, and she's still looking to cash in.
But I do know folks who've gone that route and it is desperation. There's a gal here that lost three of her daughters. She's made a career out of speaking about how they 'married Jesus" that day and that God did it to her because she was strong enough to handle it, blah, blah blah. No thought to what those three girls might have wanted out of their lives and so on.
It's how she's found some sort of peace with it. To me it's grandstanding and I don't get it. But all it took was one conversation with her. She called us shortly after we lost our two. I guess being in the multiple dead kid crowd made us special. She spent the entire time talking about her kids.
And that's the key. You are desperate not to have your kids disappear. For her and for Sheehan, a part of that public act is that piece of it. If you talk about it enough, your kid doesn't disappear.
I rarely bring it up, and when I do i feel a bit guilty, but it's usually when i feel like I need to make a point and the, for lack of a better word, 'power' of that experience lends some credibilty to what I say.
In general I think most of us who've lost kids, don't talk about it though, because it makes people uncomfortable, and we're supposed to 'get over it' in time.
And yeah I suppose she's a whacko, but then again most of us are who've lost our kids. Because there is no sane way to deal with it.
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Originally posted by Guppy35
Did you read what I wrote Steve?
Yes and I was mostly responding to Curval. I cannot pretend to understand how she feels about the loss of her son and frankly, hope I never do understand.
When she first began protesting the war and bought the property in Crawford I thought, " She has a right to protest the war and, although I think she is a little odd, we have to cut her some slack because she is a grieving mom. God grant her peace."
I figured that as time went on, and she went thru her grieving process, that she would become a voice for the anti-war crowd, which i again recognized as being her right.
As time went on, however, she became more and more vociferous, her comments more outrageous, more irresponsible. It was then that I ceased excusing away her behavior as a grieving mom. To me, she began to appear more of an opportunist. As her comments grew into rabid attacks more than anything else, I lost any feelings for her beyond thinking she is a mother who lost a son and an opportunistic nutjob.
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She was caught on the emotional rebound by her political puppeteers after the tragic death of her son, and when she called on them to hold up their end of the bargain she got a cold dose of political reality. That's all that happened. She's only just realized how she's been used.
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Guppy, take a deep breath, read it again, and realize that I do not have to be a parent of dead children to be deeply appreciative of the sacrifice of our soldiers in battle.
"Her son died serving our country and that says it all for me. He died in service of every american, and there is a an infinite amount of value in that, at least in my reasoning."
Tell me, should Memorial day be only for those who have lost loved ones in war, or should it be for every one of us to reflect and appreciate the sacrifice?
I stand by my statement, it reflects who I am, how I was raised. If you dont like it, fine by me, but do not presume for a moment that you have some gifted position in this life to inform me as to whether I have a clue about tragic loss or not.
p'fff.....
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Who was she?
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"Casey died for a country which cares more about who will be the next American Idol than how many people will be killed in the next few months while Democrats and Republicans play politics with human lives."
Spot on.
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I did not agree with her position and certainly did not like some of the company she choose to keep. She did make some valid points in her "resignation" letter. May she find some kind of peace in her life, she has certainly used any goodwill the pubic at large has or had for her. Personally, I'm not surprised to see that the left dropped her like a hot potato. She pawned herself out to make a statement and get attention. I hope she got what she bargained for because from now on she will never shake her reputation.
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Originally posted by Yeager
Guppy, take a deep breath, read it again, and realize that I do not have to be a parent of dead children to be deeply appreciative of the sacrifice of our soldiers in battle.
"Her son died serving our country and that says it all for me. He died in service of every american, and there is a an infinite amount of value in that, at least in my reasoning."
Tell me, should Memorial day be only for those who have lost loved ones in war, or should it be for every one of us to reflect and appreciate the sacrifice?
I stand by my statement, it reflects who I am, how I was raised. If you dont like it, fine by me, but do not presume for a moment that you have some gifted position in this life to inform me as to whether I have a clue about tragic loss or not.
p'fff.....
Your belief on it is your own, and as one who has spent much of his adult life honoring vets, and trying to help families of those who lost sons in WW2 come to terms with it, I understand your point of view.
I was responding to the way you dismissed her belief and by asking have you lost a son, I was trying to point out how that belief system is forever changed
Her beliefs are just as valid is yours is my point.
Go here:
http://www.worldwar2pilots.com/b24intro.htm
I wrote this 9 years ago for a memorial day to remember Al Brody, the guy in my avatar. This was 7 years before I lost my own kids. I stand by what I wrote. I think you'll find I have a fairly decent understanding of what it means.
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copy that
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Near the end of his tour of duty, the U.S. invasion of Iraq began. Sheehan re-enlisted, knowing that his unit would be sent to Iraq[4]. Sheehan's division, the First Cavalry Division, was sent to Iraq. On March 19, 2004, Sheehan's unit, C Battery, 1st Battalion, 82nd Field Artillery Regiment arrived at FOB War Eagle in Sadr City. Just a few weeks later, on April 4, 2004, Sheehan was killed in action after volunteering as part of a Quick Reaction Force to rescue American troops.
Looks to me like she didn't respect his decision to be over there. Probably a good reason why her husband divorced her as well.
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Originally posted by Tango
Near the end of his tour of duty, the U.S. invasion of Iraq began. Sheehan re-enlisted, knowing that his unit would be sent to Iraq[4]. Sheehan's division, the First Cavalry Division, was sent to Iraq. On March 19, 2004, Sheehan's unit, C Battery, 1st Battalion, 82nd Field Artillery Regiment arrived at FOB War Eagle in Sadr City. Just a few weeks later, on April 4, 2004, Sheehan was killed in action after volunteering as part of a Quick Reaction Force to rescue American troops.
Looks to me like she didn't respect his decision to be over there.
Parents can be goofy like that when it comes to their kids. You have to trust them, but it doesn't mean it's easy.
My wife will forever question that she let our daughter go that weekend when something was telling her not to. But we trusted our son to look after her, and I'm sure he did, right up til the car hit them.
Ask any parent out there. The second you let them go off to a friends house, or off to school, you never quite sleep the same, because they are out of your sight and you have to trust that things will be OK. You do it, because you'd go crazy otherwise, but sometimes it ends up with a cop at your door telling you your kids are dead.
And as I've said often this thread. I hope you never know what it's like. But please don't judge her too harshly. If you knew what it was like, you'd probably be a lot slower to bash her.
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Originally posted by rpm
Spot on.
Agreed.
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Thanks Guppy.
I appreciate the insight and I hope I never have to walk in your shoes.
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Originally posted by Guppy35
And as I've said often this thread. I hope you never know what it's like. But please don't judge her too harshly. If you knew what it was like, you'd probably be a lot slower to bash her.
However there are parents that have lost sons and daughters in the war who have the complete opposite opinions as her. She simply wants to blame Bush for her son deciding to serve his coutry.
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Originally posted by Tango
However there are parents that have lost sons and daughters in the war who have the complete opposite opinions as her. She simply wants to blame Bush for her son deciding to serve his coutry.
Thank God we have clairvoyants on this board.
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Originally posted by Tango
However there are parents that have lost sons and daughters in the war who have the complete opposite opinions as her. She simply wants to blame Bush for her son deciding to serve his coutry.
And as I said, she's looking for someone to blame because she's lost her son. Bush is a very visible target. It comes with the job. It doesn't mean it's rational. I sit in a room full of parents who've lost kids and we all react differently. There is no set way to deal with that pain. It doesn't mean anyone's way is correct.
But what do you do with that anger? I keep looking for someone to blame for my kids dying. My wife's cause is to get a light at the intersection where they died. She's pestered folks a lot about it. It won't bring the kids back, but it might save someone elses. I'm sure they see her as a pain in the bellybutton for the letters and phone calls. It's so hard to watch her in that pain. It's 21 months yesterday, and it's probably 3 nights a week I wake up to the bed shuddering from her sobs for her kids. All the therapy, meds etc in the world, can't change the ultimate result, in that her babies are gone.
I'd like to blame my son's girlfriend. She was a basket case to begin with and he thought he could 'save' her. Suicidal at times and a real drama queen. They weren't where they were supposed to be. They should have been home. Of the three in the car, she walked away, while my two kids died. Is it her fault? No. Andrew was old enough to decide for himself. It doesn't mean that there aren't times where I can't stand the thought that this kid who wanted to die, lived and my kids died. It was no doubt her influence on my boy that had them not home when they should have had Christina home two hours before the accident and they were still 3 hours from home when they died.
You keep trying to make Sheehan's reaction something that makes sense. To me, all I see is a mom who tried desperately to keep her kid alive or maybe have her efforts bring him home somehow. And now she's hit the point where she knows that no matter what she does, he's still dead and never coming home. No amount of stomping, screaming, blaming will change that.
I know my son missed the stop sign and he and his sister died because of it. I know it was his choice to go that route. It doesn't change those moments of anger and hopelessness that are there every day
Is Ms Sheehan responsible for what she does? Absolutely. Do you think that anything you could say or do to her would ever hurt her as much as she's been hurt already? Not a chance.
That's why those of us in that spot would make good subjects for suicide missions. It's not that we want to die. It's that there is nothing that could happen worse then what's already happened, so that fear or worry about what others think or do, just doesn't matter and just isn't there. Dying would be a relief in some ways.
It's a weird way to live, let me tell ya.
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I don't often read this area of the forums. And I really don't like to get into anything so deep and heavy as this. But haveing read the comments posted here and the subject matter and the opinions of so many I feel compeled to add a word.
You may not like what I have to say, you may not like me for having said it, so be it, you may think me disloyal I can live with that, but as an american as a former soldier as a patriot, I will say whats on my mind,I will raise my voice when told otherwise I will protest, I will bang my drum, I will ask questions no one wants to answer, i will demand my right to speak,I will not ask for it, I will take it!
I will force all of you to look at the truth from my point of veiw and I will never be silent, I'll never give you a moments rest from my voice, I will be heard! I will be the decenting voice.
I will listen, I will learn, I will incourage you to say whats on your mind, no matter how far out your point of veiw may be! I will try to understand, I will be tolerant, I will be thoughtful to your feelings and your experiences. I will remember what it was they fought for, what they fight for, what battles may lay in wait for them. And I will never forget them, or their sacrifice, their fear, their pain, their deaths. And I will never let you either!
This is why I can say what I like when I like and to whom I like
Without fear, Without reprisal, Free to be an American, a former soldier and a patriot.
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She's a quitter. Plain and simple. Liberals do alot of that, quitting. They're not tough enough. They like to blame others for their problems.
She quit on her marriage, she quit on her politics, and we'll probably read about her on page 5 of the paper next year, DUI or something like that.
Remember...this is a woman who said she'd never quit...so she's not only a quitter, she's a liar too.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=55293
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
She's a quitter. Plain and simple. Liberals do alot of that, quitting. They're not tough enough. They like to blame others for their problems.
She quit on her marriage, she quit on her politics, and we'll probably read about her on page 5 of the paper next year, DUI or something like that.
Remember...this is a woman who said she'd never quit...so she's not only a quitter, she's a liar too.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=55293
LOL, amazing. I quit too. I said my piece. You made up your mind long ago. It's always good to know that things are so black and white out there with simple answers for simple minds.
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Easy for Rip to criticise someone who lost a child in the military. He's never been in it and will spend whatever it takes to keep his kids out.
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Originally posted by rpm
Easy for Rip to criticise someone who lost a child in the military. He's never been in it and will spend whatever it takes to keep his kids out.
Wow. Big words for a old fat fart like yourself. Real "classy" bringing my kids in it, dipchit.
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Cool... I'm already in before the lock.
Thanks for playing.
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That's what we're talking about here, kids dying and parents grief. But, you won't have to worry. And you can call me "veteran" Rip.
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It's starting to sound like Capitol Hill in here.
LOL.
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It's a weird way to live, let me tell ya.
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Life is like a box of chocolates........
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Originally posted by rpm
That's what we're talking about here, kids dying and parents grief. But, you won't have to worry. And you can call me "veteran" Rip.
The arrogance level begins to really stink when you play the "I'm a Vet, you haven't served" card. Unbelievable. I thought you were more educated than that but apparently I was wrong.
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I have not lost a son but I have lost a brother and I have lost other relatives and friends. I understand the need to blame.
That is not the point tho. Lots of people have lost sons in lots of wars. Her husband for one.
They did not go insane as she did and say that the country was not worth fighting for. that the commies are right and we are wrong.
When I heard her I always thought that she was not only making a fool of herself but that she was doing the memory of her son a grave disservice.
lazs
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" I am not paying my taxes for 2004. You killed my son, George Bush, and I don't owe you a penny...you give my son back and I'll pay my taxes. Come after me (for back taxes) and we'll put this war on trial.”
interesting statement, i say any parents who lose their son or daughter in war, should not have to pay taxes that year, as they have payed enough already.
otherwise, i support 100% everything they are doing in iraq, and that lady doesnt know anything anyways.
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Originally posted by folkwufe
" I am not paying my taxes for 2004. You killed my son, George Bush, and I don't owe you a penny...you give my son back and I'll pay my taxes. Come after me (for back taxes) and we'll put this war on trial.”
interesting statement, i say any parents who lose their son or daughter in war, should not have to pay taxes that year, as they have payed enough already.
otherwise, i support 100% everything they are doing in iraq, and that lady doesnt know anything anyways.
Why stop at just people who have lost sons or daughters in the war?
All taxes are immoral, regardless of who you are.
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Originally posted by Phaser11
Who was she?
LOL:rofl
You're a good egg Phaser
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
The arrogance level begins to really stink when you play the "I'm a Vet, you haven't served" card. Unbelievable. I thought you were more educated than that but apparently I was wrong.
Amen